Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:47 pm

One thing about VAERS:

Guide to Interpreting VAERS Case Report Information

When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index

Anyone can send a report for any reason, and it ends up in the system.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:03 pm

Jesus (or the Flying Sphaghetti Monster, may his noodliness ever reign) taught us that we don't trade people. Or even slaves. #AllLivesMatter


OK, so "trade" was a bad choice of word(s), but the choice is really simple. You can either have a few people dying, or metric craptons of people dying. Saying that one equals the other is crazy. It's like comparing a mass shooting to a major war and saying they're both equally bad.

Btw: Penicillin kills about 400 people every year in the US. Shouldn't we ban that too?
http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/p/penicil ... deaths.htm
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby alwyn » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:03 pm

DrEvil » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:03 pm wrote:
Jesus (or the Flying Sphaghetti Monster, may his noodliness ever reign) taught us that we don't trade people. Or even slaves. #AllLivesMatter


OK, so "trade" was a bad choice of word(s), but the choice is really simple. You can either have a few people dying, or metric craptons of people dying. Saying that one equals the other is crazy. It's like comparing a mass shooting to a major war and saying they're both equally bad.

Btw: Penicillin kills about 400 people every year in the US. Shouldn't we ban that too?
http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/p/penicil ... deaths.htm


well, medical mistakes kill tens of thousands. should we ban doctors? Of course not. But a doctor who gives a patient penicillin after he knows a patient is reactive to it is sued for malpractice. We have no such choice with vaccines, the makers are immune from prosecution, and the products mandated, no matter the reaction. If adjuvants in vaccines are causing problems, why not remove them? Too hard? Cost too much? Might have to create a new kind of vaccine rather than using a 50+ year old cell line and immune stimulation techniques that don't muster up to cutting edge knowledge of how the immune system actually works? Not that they truly know, mind you, but they don't seem to mind wholesale experimentation, and if you can't touch the 'third rail of medicine', how are you going to change what needs to? How can you even examine the model if they won't have a conversation about it? There are not enough choices in the dialogue that we are having about this subject. It's not either/or. It's updating ancient techniques and outmoded medicine. We know enough to know that one size does not fit all, we should not mandate it at the public expense.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby alwyn » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:08 pm

DrEvil » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:47 pm wrote:One thing about VAERS:

Guide to Interpreting VAERS Case Report Information

When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index

Anyone can send a report for any reason, and it ends up in the system.


http://vaers.hhs.gov/about/faqs#who_reports

"Who reports to VAERS?


Anyone can file a VAERS report, including health care providers, manufacturers, and vaccine recipients. The majority of VAERS reports are sent in by vaccine manufacturers (37%) and health care providers (36%).The remaining reports are obtained from state immunization programs (10%), vaccine recipients (or their parent/guardians, 7%) and other sources (10%). Vaccine recipients or their parents or guardians are encouraged to seek the help of their health care professional in filling out the VAERS form. Each report provides valuable information that is added to the VAERS database. Accurate and complete reporting of post-vaccination events supplies the information needed for evaluation of vaccine safety. The CDC and FDA use VAERS information to ensure the safest strategies of vaccine use and to further reduce the rare risks associated with vaccines.

from the horse's mouth.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Nordic » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:20 pm

stoneonstone » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:37 am wrote:re: gardasil

I fear we have a reaction in our household to this crap. Didn't allow our older daughters to get it, but the youngest wore us down, saying she didn't want to not have it.

She's lost pretty much a year and a half of her high school life now.



Sorry to hear that. :hug1:
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby BrandonD » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:36 pm

Elvis » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:25 pm wrote:Michael Belkin wrote:

The medical examiner initially told us, our pediatrician, and an investigating pathologist that Lyla’s brain was so swollen that it led to her death. After consulting with Merck (the manufacturer of Lyla’s hepatitis B vaccine), the medical examiner left me, a devastated father who just lost his precious firstborn child to an avoidable vaccine-induced death, with these parting words: “We’ve changed our minds; her brain was not swollen. Vaccines do a lot of good things for people, Mr. Belkin.”


I don't fall wholly on either side of this debate, but this, and some of Suzanne Humphrie's encounters with "the third rail," begs the question, who is being "hysterical"?

Everyone should keep in mind the vast amounts of money at stake in the vaccine industry -- emphasis on industry.

Smug dismissals can't help.


That's the major issue here for those whose hackles raise at the very suggestion that vaccines might cause problems - this is not a religious anti-science crusade, it is an illustration of the totally logical and predictable consequences of a medical industry being operated within a thoroughly self-centered social and economic system.

There's no way an institution created for altruistic purposes can operate properly in a deeply self-centered system - it will become a gross mutated form of itself, as we currently see it.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Nordic » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:40 pm

DrEvil » Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:03 pm wrote:
Jesus (or the Flying Sphaghetti Monster, may his noodliness ever reign) taught us that we don't trade people. Or even slaves. #AllLivesMatter


OK, so "trade" was a bad choice of word(s), but the choice is really simple. You can either have a few people dying, or metric craptons of people dying. Saying that one equals the other is crazy. It's like comparing a mass shooting to a major war and saying they're both equally bad.

Btw: Penicillin kills about 400 people every year in the US. Shouldn't we ban that too?
http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/p/penicil ... deaths.htm


Are we talking about banning all vaccines? Not last I checked. Might be a bit of strawman there, Sir Evil. Comparing it to banning penicillin is silly.

I recently willingly received a tetanus shot. Willingly. Most of us are quite aware how vaccines wiped out Polio.

The question is one of freedom and informed consent. Nobody should be forced to have anything injected into their bodies unless (the only example I can think of) they are in immediate danger or are putting someone else in immediate danger.

Gardasil (my spellcheck turns that into "hardship") is a commercial product that was sold and injected into people without informed consent.

If adult women know the risks and decide to take it anyway, that's up to them. But did they actually disclose the risks? It seems not. Seems they still don't want to for fears of financial liability. Money makes people act amorally all the time.

I think if schools want to block kids who aren't vaccinated, that's fine. That's the choice of the school and parents can find another school or home school. But to force kids to get vaccinated? With what? What, in the future, will The State decide we have to have injected into our children? We are just now discovering that the whole "fluoride in tap water" thing was a fraud. It doesn't help fight tooth decay and in fact reduces your IQ by 6 to 9 percentage points. I took my kids off of tap water and now give them only spring water bottled at a known source, and I actually noticed a difference in their cognitive skills!! Why would that be? Because the state wants stupid citizens. Things are getting more and more Orwellian, and a manufactured "crisis" and PR blitz painting everyone who doesn't totally trust The State with vaccinating children as goofy nutjobs is not something that should be unquestioningly accepted! And now here in CA it's mandatory to let the State stick your kids with whatever THEY think needs to be injected into their blood streams. God only knows what those future injections will actually consist of!
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby alwyn » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:00 am

[quote=Nordic]
I think if schools want to block kids who aren't vaccinated, that's fine. That's the choice of the school and parents can find another school or home school.


Um Nordic, the issue is schooling. The state constitution grants a child's right to public schooling. The way this bill is written, children who are unvaccinated according to the state schedule, even if it's only the Hep B vaccine (because so many kindergardeners are drug addicts and have unprotected sex) will not be admitted to school, whether public, private, or charter. There are have been no epidemics in school, the system is not broken, and the bill is unnecessarily harsh on those who whose families may have a history of bad reactions, but fail the rather narrow clinical test for an actual medical exemption, which are scarecer than hen's teeth in spite of press to the contrary. Homeless children are exempt, even though they can attend school, and may actually live in conditions which might really foster disease. People with the actual disease of Hep B can go to school. Or aids, because discrimination. go figure. The bill is asking parents to play medical roullette by following really rather arbitrary state standards. It would be one thing if disease were rampant. It's not, and the fear tactics used to sell more product are truly reprehensible.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:42 pm

The California bill doesn't force you to vaccinate your kids, it just says that if you want to send your kid to a public or private school they should be vaccinated. You're free to home-school if you don't like that (and preferably, don't ever take your kids anywhere public, like Disneyland). Sure, your kid might survive measles just fine, but that kid on chemo he just infected won't, which is why herd immunity is so important.

Same principle as requiring a driver's license for driving a car; it's for the common good. It saves lives. Just look at the numbers I posted earlier for deaths last century. 400 million just from smallpox. That's more than the entire US population. Today no one dies from smallpox. Guess why.

well, medical mistakes kill tens of thousands. should we ban doctors? Of course not.


That's my whole point. Yes, vaccines sometimes kill or cripple people, but they save far more lives. The risk of a bad side-effect is minuscule. Any number of things you do every day is more dangerous than vaccinating, so I really don't get why people are so scared of vaccines in particular. Why not cars, guns, tobacco, alcohol, falling down the stairs or drowning in your bathtub?

As for liability for pharmaceuticals, yes I agree they should be held liable for any fuck-ups, or if not them, the government, since they mandate the production of many of the vaccines. Preferably something like all profits from sales go into a fund for people who experience bad side-effects, and/or lifetime free healthcare.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Nordic » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:52 pm

Going to the DMV, while unpleasant, doesn't involve bureaucrats injecting unknown substances into my bloodstream.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby alwyn » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:51 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3148872/Woman-died-measles-vaccinated-patient-die-disease-U-S-12-years-succumbed-disease-health-problems.html




Woman who died of measles WAS vaccinated: First patient to die of disease in U.S. for 12 years succumbed to disease because of other health problems

The woman from Washington state passed away in the Spring
Health officials say other medications stopped her fighting infection
Her condition was not discovered until an autopsy was performed
Last American fatality as a result of the measles was in 2003

By Associated Press Reporter

Published: 14:29 EST, 3 July 2015 | Updated: 16:41 EST, 3 July 2015

A woman who became the first person to die of the measles in the U.S. in 12 years had been vaccinated against the disease, it has been revealed.

Health officials said she had the injection as a child but succumbed because she had a compromised immune system.

Dr. Jeanette Stehr-Green, the Clallam County health officer, told KOMO-TV the woman had been vaccinated as a child, but because she had other health problems and was taking medications that interfered with her response to an infection 'she was not protected.'

So, the woman was vaccinated, and the vaccine didn't protect her, so we should all be vaccinated to protect the previously vaccinated. circle-jerk much?
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby 82_28 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:39 am

All very well put, Nordic and alwyn.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby Nordic » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:31 pm

Any time the government requires you to buy something, there's a new industry created along with the attendant corruption, price gouging, etc etc.

It's one thing when it's a smog check for your car, it's another when it's your infant being clobbered with dozens of dead viruses injected into its blood all at once.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:36 pm

alwyn » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:51 am wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3148872/Woman-died-measles-vaccinated-patient-die-disease-U-S-12-years-succumbed-disease-health-problems.html




Woman who died of measles WAS vaccinated: First patient to die of disease in U.S. for 12 years succumbed to disease because of other health problems

The woman from Washington state passed away in the Spring
Health officials say other medications stopped her fighting infection
Her condition was not discovered until an autopsy was performed
Last American fatality as a result of the measles was in 2003

By Associated Press Reporter

Published: 14:29 EST, 3 July 2015 | Updated: 16:41 EST, 3 July 2015

A woman who became the first person to die of the measles in the U.S. in 12 years had been vaccinated against the disease, it has been revealed.

Health officials said she had the injection as a child but succumbed because she had a compromised immune system.

Dr. Jeanette Stehr-Green, the Clallam County health officer, told KOMO-TV the woman had been vaccinated as a child, but because she had other health problems and was taking medications that interfered with her response to an infection 'she was not protected.'

So, the woman was vaccinated, and the vaccine didn't protect her, so we should all be vaccinated to protect the previously vaccinated. circle-jerk much?


And again: This is why herd immunity is so important. Someone else infected her. If everyone had been vaccinated the chance of her being infected in the first place had been much lower.

Edit: More info: http://www.doh.wa.gov/Newsroom/2013News ... tesDecline

The vaccination rate for measles in Washington state (where she died) was well below the level required for effective herd immunity.
Last edited by DrEvil on Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby DrEvil » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:39 pm

Nordic » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:52 am wrote:Going to the DMV, while unpleasant, doesn't involve bureaucrats injecting unknown substances into my bloodstream.


They're not unknown. They come with labels you know. You can even look it up on the internet!
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