Vaccine - Autism link

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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby 82_28 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:41 pm

Wait. What idiocy? I have yet to see any. Do you mean that most of us who have commented have a problem with vaccines being made mandatory?

Again, having the vaccine does not mean you will not be carrying it. Do you use cash? Do you use a shopping cart? Do you touch the buttons when you put in your PIN? Vaccines only work for YOU and YOU ALONE. Getting vaccinated doesn't do shit as far as spreading disease.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby BrandonD » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:44 pm

alwyn » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:57 pm wrote:
brainpanhandler » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:48 am wrote:Some of the idiocy on this thread is embarrassing.

Thanks for that slap, BrainPanHandler..... i needed that. i went back and checked the source instead of going off the deep end from one of my political action committees....the bill stated is for Mandatory VAX for Adults working at day care facilities, hospitals, etc. Not quite the draconian 'everyone' that panic made it. I apologize heartily for my inadvertant knee-jerk reaction to what is merely in the workings at the federal level, thinking it had got here first.


Unfortunately, for those of us who are fighting against the establishment - whatever name it chooses to hide behind this week - the burden is upon us to be especially diligent and precise.

This is not in any way because an anti-establishment position is weaker. It is because the defenders of convention exploit small mistakes and over-reaches, using them as a tool to try and discredit the entire position. It is like breaking off the weakest branch in an attempt to prove that the tree is rotten.

Of course, defenders of the establishment are totally free to ignore the trunk and anything solid. THEY can be as lazy as they like, but WE must watch our steps - it is the burden of the person who cares to think a bit further.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby slomo » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:04 am

82_28 » 13 Jul 2015 13:41 wrote:Wait. What idiocy? I have yet to see any. Do you mean that most of us who have commented have a problem with vaccines being made mandatory?

Again, having the vaccine does not mean you will not be carrying it. Do you use cash? Do you use a shopping cart? Do you touch the buttons when you put in your PIN? Vaccines only work for YOU and YOU ALONE. Getting vaccinated doesn't do shit as far as spreading disease.

I have to disagree on this one. While I am against forced vaccination on the grounds that autonomy is a cornerstone of medical ethics, and I acknowledge that some vaccines (e.g. the HPV vaccine) may in fact be harmful, I must insist that herd immunity is a real thing. It arises from the mathematics of infectious disease transmission. There is a critical threshold of resistance to the infectious agent beyond which the "chain of transmission" is (from a stochastic standpoint) broken and the population of infectious agents ("epidemic") dies out. So if enough YOUs are vaccinated, vaccines do work to protect everybody.

But it's kind of a Prisoner's Dilemma, especially if the safety of the vaccine in question has not adequately been established. The issue here isn't vaccines per se, it's the accountability of the entties that are responsible for producing and distributing them. In advocating for the right of individuals to protect themselves from ill effects with the kind of corruption we see in the pharmaceutical industry and the public health infrastructure, it does not help to display ignorance of basic infectious disease epidemiology.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby brainpanhandler » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:10 am

slomo » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:04 am wrote:
82_28 » 13 Jul 2015 13:41 wrote:Wait. What idiocy? I have yet to see any. Do you mean that most of us who have commented have a problem with vaccines being made mandatory?

Again, having the vaccine does not mean you will not be carrying it. Do you use cash? Do you use a shopping cart? Do you touch the buttons when you put in your PIN? Vaccines only work for YOU and YOU ALONE. Getting vaccinated doesn't do shit as far as spreading disease.

I have to disagree on this one. While I am against forced vaccination on the grounds that autonomy is a cornerstone of medical ethics, and I acknowledge that some vaccines (e.g. the HPV vaccine) may in fact be harmful, I must insist that herd immunity is a real thing. It arises from the mathematics of infectious disease transmission. There is a critical threshold of resistance to the infectious agent beyond which the "chain of transmission" is (from a stochastic standpoint) broken and the population of infectious agents ("epidemic") dies out. So if enough YOUs are vaccinated, vaccines do work to protect everybody.

But it's kind of a Prisoner's Dilemma, especially if the safety of the vaccine in question has not adequately been established. The issue here isn't vaccines per se, it's the accountability of the entties that are responsible for producing and distributing them. In advocating for the right of individuals to protect themselves from ill effects with the kind of corruption we see in the pharmaceutical industry and the public health infrastructure, it does not help to display ignorance of basic infectious disease epidemiology.


That is so well said, though I'll reinforce the language forced vaccination.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby brainpanhandler » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:15 am

alwyn » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:57 pm wrote:
brainpanhandler » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:48 am wrote:Some of the idiocy on this thread is embarrassing.

Thanks for that slap, BrainPanHandler..... i needed that. i went back and checked the source instead of going off the deep end from one of my political action committees....the bill stated is for Mandatory VAX for Adults working at day care facilities, hospitals, etc. Not quite the draconian 'everyone' that panic made it. I apologize heartily for my inadvertant knee-jerk reaction to what is merely in the workings at the federal level, thinking it had got here first.


Honestly, I wasn't talking about you. But kudos to you for your diligence there.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby alwyn » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:48 pm

Regarding herd immunity induced by vaccines: (actually backs up what 82_28 says about vaccines)

stateofthenation2012.com/?p=14430
My name is Tetyana Obukhanych. I hold a PhD in Immunology. I am writing this letter in the hope that it will correct several common misperceptions about vaccines in order to help you formulate a fair and balanced understanding that is supported by accepted vaccine theory and new scientific findings.

Do unvaccinated children pose a higher threat to the public than the vaccinated?

It is often stated that those who choose not to vaccinate their children for reasons of conscience endanger the rest of the public, and this is the rationale behind most of the legislation to end vaccine exemptions currently being considered by federal and state legislators country-wide. You should be aware that the nature of protection afforded by many modern vaccines – and that includes most of the vaccines recommended by the CDC for children – is not consistent with such a statement. I have outlined below the recommended vaccines that cannot prevent transmission of disease either because they are not designed to prevent the transmission of infection (rather, they are intended to prevent disease symptoms), or because they are for non-communicable diseases. People who have not received the vaccines mentioned below pose no higher threat to the general public than those who have, implying that discrimination against non-immunized children in a public school setting may not be warranted.
Senator-Pan

State Senator Richard Pan of California, sponsor of vaccine legislation

IPV (inactivated poliovirus vaccine) cannot prevent transmission of poliovirus (see appendix for the scientific study, Item #1). Wild poliovirus has been non-existent in the USA for at least two decades. Even if wild poliovirus were to be re-imported by travel, vaccinating for polio with IPV cannot affect the safety of public spaces. Please note that wild poliovirus eradication is attributed to the use of a different vaccine, OPV or oral poliovirus vaccine. Despite being capable of preventing wild poliovirus transmission, use of OPV was phased out long ago in the USA and replaced with IPV due to safety concerns.

Tetanus is not a contagious disease, but rather acquired from deep-puncture wounds contaminated with C. tetani spores. Vaccinating for tetanus (via the DTaP combination vaccine) cannot alter the safety of public spaces; it is intended to render personal protection only.

While intended to prevent the disease-causing effects of the diphtheria toxin, the diphtheria toxoid vaccine (also contained in the DTaP vaccine) is not designed to prevent colonization and transmission of C. diphtheriae. Vaccinating for diphtheria cannot alter the safety of public spaces; it is likewise intended for personal protection only.

The acellular pertussis (aP) vaccine (the final element of the DTaP combined vaccine), now in use in the USA, replaced the whole cell pertussis vaccine in the late 1990s, which was followed by an unprecedented resurgence of whooping cough. An experiment with deliberate pertussis infection in primates revealed that the aP vaccine is not capable of preventing colonization and transmission of B. pertussis (see appendix for the scientific study, Item #2). The FDA has issued a warning regarding this crucial finding.[1]

Furthermore, the 2013 meeting of the Board of Scientific Counselors at the CDC revealed additional alarming data that pertussis variants (PRN-negative strains) currently circulating in the USA acquired a selective advantage to infect those who are up-to-date for their DTaP boosters (see appendix for the CDC document, Item #3), meaning that people who are up-to-date are more likely to be infected, and thus contagious, than people who are not vaccinated.

Senator Steiner Hayward

State Senator Elizabeth Steiner-Hayward of Oregon, sponsor of vaccine legislation

Among numerous types of H. influenzae, the Hib vaccine covers only type b. Despite its sole intention to reduce symptomatic and asymptomatic (disease-less) Hib carriage, the introduction of the Hib vaccine has inadvertently shifted strain dominance towards other types of H. influenzae (types a through f).These types have been causing invasive disease of high severity and increasing incidence in adults in the era of Hib vaccination of children (see appendix for the scientific study, Item #4). The general population is more vulnerable to the invasive disease now than it was prior to the start of the Hib vaccination campaign. Discriminating against children who are not vaccinated for Hib does not make any scientific sense in the era of non-type b H. influenzae disease.

Hepatitis B is a blood-borne virus. It does not spread in a community setting, especially among children who are unlikely to engage in high-risk behaviors, such as needle sharing or sex. Vaccinating children for hepatitis B cannot significantly alter the safety of public spaces. Further, school admission is not prohibited for children who are chronic hepatitis B carriers. To prohibit school admission for those who are simply unvaccinated – and do not even carry hepatitis B – would constitute unreasonable and illogical discrimination.

In summary, a person who is not vaccinated with IPV, DTaP, HepB, and Hib vaccines due to reasons of conscience poses no extra danger to the public than a person who is. No discrimination is warranted.

How often do serious vaccine adverse events happen?

It is often stated that vaccination rarely leads to serious adverse events. Unfortunately, this statement is not supported by science. A recent study done in Ontario, Canada, established that vaccination actually leads to an emergency room visit for 1 in 168 children following their 12-month vaccination appointment and for 1 in 730 children following their 18-month vaccination appointment (see appendix for a scientific study, Item #5).

When the risk of an adverse event requiring an ER visit after well-baby vaccinations is demonstrably so high, vaccination must remain a choice for parents, who may understandably be unwilling to assume this immediate risk in order to protect their children from diseases that are generally considered mild or that their children may never be exposed to.
senator mullin

State Senator Kevin Mullin of Vermont, sponsor of vaccine legislation

Can discrimination against families who oppose vaccines for reasons of conscience prevent future disease outbreaks of communicable viral diseases, such as measles?

Measles research scientists have for a long time been aware of the “measles paradox.” I quote from the article by Poland & Jacobson (1994) “Failure to Reach the Goal of Measles Elimination: Apparent Paradox of Measles Infections in Immunized Persons.” Arch Intern Med 154:1815-1820:

“The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons.”[2]

Further research determined that behind the “measles paradox” is a fraction of the population called LOW VACCINE RESPONDERS. Low-responders are those who respond poorly to the first dose of the measles vaccine. These individuals then mount a weak immune response to subsequent RE-vaccination and quickly return to the pool of “susceptibles’’ within 2-5 years, despite being fully vaccinated.[3]

Re-vaccination cannot correct low-responsiveness: it appears to be an immuno-genetic trait.[4] The proportion of low-responders among children was estimated to be 4.7% in the USA.[5]

Studies of measles outbreaks in Quebec, Canada, and China attest that outbreaks of measles still happen, even when vaccination compliance is in the highest bracket (95-97% or even 99%, see appendix for scientific studies, Items #6&7). This is because even in high vaccine responders, vaccine-induced antibodies wane over time. Vaccine immunity does not equal life-long immunity acquired after natural exposure.

It has been documented that vaccinated persons who develop breakthrough measles are contagious. In fact, two major measles outbreaks in 2011 (in Quebec, Canada, and in New York, NY) were re-imported by previously vaccinated individuals.[6]–[7]

Taken together, these data make it apparent that elimination of vaccine exemptions, currently only utilized by a small percentage of families anyway, will neither solve the problem of disease resurgence nor prevent re-importation and outbreaks of previously eliminated diseases.
Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, sponsor of federal vaccine legislation

Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, sponsor of federal vaccine legislation

Is discrimination against conscientious vaccine objectors the only practical solution?

The majority of measles cases in recent US outbreaks (including the recent Disneyland outbreak) are adults and very young babies, whereas in the pre-vaccination era, measles occurred mainly between the ages 1 and 15. Natural exposure to measles was followed by lifelong immunity from re-infection, whereas vaccine immunity wanes over time, leaving adults unprotected by their childhood shots. Measles is more dangerous for infants and for adults than for school-aged children.

Despite high chances of exposure in the pre-vaccination era, measles practically never happened in babies much younger than one year of age due to the robust maternal immunity transfer mechanism. The vulnerability of very young babies to measles today is the direct outcome of the prolonged mass vaccination campaign of the past, during which their mothers, themselves vaccinated in their childhood, were not able to experience measles naturally at a safe school age and establish the lifelong immunity that would also be transferred to their babies and protect them from measles for the first year of life.

Luckily, a therapeutic backup exists to mimic now-eroded maternal immunity. Infants as well as other vulnerable or immunocompromised individuals, are eligible to receive immunoglobulin, a potentially life-saving measure that supplies antibodies directed against the virus to prevent or ameliorate disease upon exposure (see appendix, Item #8).

In summary: 1) due to the properties of modern vaccines, non-vaccinated individuals pose no greater risk of transmission of polio, diphtheria, pertussis, and numerous non-type b H. influenzae strains than vaccinated individuals do, non-vaccinated individuals pose virtually no danger of transmission of hepatitis B in a school setting, and tetanus is not transmissible at all; 2) there is a significantly elevated risk of emergency room visits after childhood vaccination appointments attesting that vaccination is not risk-free; 3) outbreaks of measles cannot be entirely prevented even if we had nearly perfect vaccination compliance; and 4) an effective method of preventing measles and other viral diseases in vaccine-ineligible infants and the immunocompromised, immunoglobulin, is available for those who may be exposed to these diseases.

Taken together, these four facts make it clear that discrimination in a public school setting against children who are not vaccinated for reasons of conscience is completely unwarranted as the vaccine status of conscientious objectors poses no undue public health risk.

Sincerely Yours,

~ Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD

Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD, is the author of the book Vaccine Illusion. She has studied immunology in some of the world’s most prestigious medical institutions. She earned her PhD in Immunology at the Rockefeller University in New York and did postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA and Stanford University in California.

Dr. Obukhanych offers online classes for those who want to gain deeper understanding of how the immune system works and whether the immunologic benefits of vaccines are worth the risks: Natural Immunity Fundamentals.

Appendix

Item #1. The Cuba IPV Study collaborative group. (2007) Randomized controlled trial of inactivated poliovirus vaccine in Cuba. N Engl J Med 356:1536-44

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17429085

The table below from the Cuban IPV study documents that 91% of children receiving no IPV (control group B) were colonized with live attenuated poliovirus upon deliberate experimental inoculation. Children who were vaccinated with IPV (groups A and C) were similarly colonized at the rate of 94-97%. High counts of live virus were recovered from the stool of children in all groups. These results make it clear that IPV cannot be relied upon for the control of polioviruses.

polio chart

Item #2. Warfel et al. (2014) Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate model.Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 111:787-92

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24277828

“Baboons vaccinated with aP were protected from severe pertussis-associated symptoms but not from colonization, did not clear the infection faster than naïve [unvaccinated] animals, and readily transmitted B. pertussis to unvaccinated contacts. By comparison, previously infected [naturally-immune] animals were not colonized upon secondary infection.”

Item #3. Meeting of the Board of Scientific Counselors, Office of Infectious Diseases, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Tom Harkins Global Communication Center, Atlanta, Georgia, December 11-12, 2013

http://www.cdc.gov/maso/facm/pdfs/BSCOI ... inutes.pdf

Resurgence of Pertussis (p.6)

“Findings indicated that 85% of the isolates [from six Enhanced Pertussis Surveillance Sites and from epidemics in Washington and Vermont in 2012] were PRN-deficient and vaccinated patients had significantly higher odds than unvaccinated patients of being infected with PRN-deficient strains. Moreover, when patients with up-to-date DTaP vaccinations were compared to unvaccinated patients, the odds of being infected with PRN-deficient strains increased, suggesting that PRN-bacteria may have a selective advantage in infecting DTaP-vaccinated persons.”

Item #4. Rubach et al. (2011) Increasing incidence of invasive Haemophilus influenzae disease in adults, Utah, USA. Emerg Infect Dis 17:1645-50

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21888789

The chart below from Rubach et al. shows the number of invasive cases of H. influenzae(all types) in Utah in the decade of childhood vaccination for Hib.

Hib chart

Item #5. Wilson et al. (2011) Adverse events following 12 and 18 month vaccinations: a population-based, self-controlled case series analysis. PLoS One 6:e27897

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22174753

“Four to 12 days post 12 month vaccination, children had a 1.33 (1.29-1.38) increased relative incidence of the combined endpoint compared to the control period, or at least one event during the risk interval for every 168 children vaccinated. Ten to 12 days post 18 month vaccination, the relative incidence was 1.25 (95%, 1.17-1.33) which represented at least one excess event for every 730 children vaccinated. The primary reason for increased events was statistically significant elevations in emergency room visits following all vaccinations.”

Item #6. De Serres et al. (2013) Largest measles epidemic in North America in a decade–Quebec, Canada, 2011: contribution of susceptibility, serendipity, and superspreading events. J Infect Dis 207:990-98

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23264672

“The largest measles epidemic in North America in the last decade occurred in 2011 in Quebec, Canada.”

“A super-spreading event triggered by 1 importation resulted in sustained transmission and 678 cases.”

“The index case patient was a 30-39-year old adult, after returning to Canada from the Caribbean. The index case patient received measles vaccine in childhood.”

“Provincial [Quebec] vaccine coverage surveys conducted in 2006, 2008, and 2010 consistently showed that by 24 months of age, approximately 96% of children had received 1 dose and approximately 85% had received 2 doses of measles vaccine, increasing to 97% and 90%, respectively, by 28 months of age. With additional first and second doses administered between 28 and 59 months of age, population measles vaccine coverage is even higher by school entry.”

“Among adolescents, 22% [of measles cases] had received 2 vaccine doses. Outbreak investigation showed this proportion to have been an underestimate; active case finding identified 130% more cases among 2-dose recipients.”

Item #7. Wang et al. (2014) Difficulties in eliminating measles and controlling rubella and mumps: a cross-sectional study of a first measles and rubella vaccination and a second measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination. PLoS One9:e89361

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24586717

“The reported coverage of the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine is greater than 99.0% in Zhejiang province. However, the incidence of measles, mumps, and rubella remains high.”

Item #8. Immunoglobulin Handbook, Health Protection Agency

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... 2198450982

HUMAN NORMAL IMMUNOGLOBULIN (HNIG):

Indications

To prevent or attenuate an attack in immuno-compromised contacts
To prevent or attenuate an attack in pregnant women
To prevent or attenuate an attack in infants under the age of 9 months

[1] http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/ ... 376937.htm

[2] http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article ... eid=619215

[3] Poland (1998) Am J Hum Genet 62:215-220

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9463343

“ ‘poor responders,’ who were re-immunized and developed poor or low-level antibody responses only to lose detectable antibody and develop measles on exposure 2–5 years later.”

[4] ibid

“Our ongoing studies suggest that seronegativity after vaccination [for measles] clusters among related family members, that genetic polymorphisms within the HLA [genes] significantly influence antibody levels.”

[5] LeBaron et al. (2007) Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med 161:294-301

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17339511

“Titers fell significantly over time [after second MMR] for the study population overall and, by the final collection, 4.7% of children were potentially susceptible.”

[6] De Serres et al. (2013) J Infect Dis 207:990-998

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23264672

“The index case patient received measles vaccine in childhood.”

[7] Rosen et al. (2014) Clin Infect Dis 58:1205-1210

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24585562

“The index patient had 2 doses of measles-containing vaccine.”
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Last edited by alwyn on Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby alwyn » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:03 pm

another one on disease transmission from the vaccine

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/ ... 4120070518

A two-year-old boy who developed a serious reaction to his father's smallpox vaccination has recovered but disease detectives found infectious virus all over his house, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported on Thursday.

The Indiana toddler developed a rare rash known as eczema vaccinatum after playing with his father, a soldier vaccinated for deployment in Iraq, reported Dr. John Marcinak of the University of Chicago and CDC experts.

Experimental treatments helped the child, but the CDC said the incident showed that care must be taken by people who receive the smallpox vaccine.
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It was the first case of eczema vaccinatum reported in the United States since 1988, the CDC said. The child was hospitalized for 48 days but should suffer no long-term consequences other than possible scarring, said the report, published in the CDC's weekly report on death and disease.

Pox viruses can survive on inanimate objects so experts tested the family's home.

"Multiple swab samples obtained from the home (e.g., from a bathroom washcloth, a slipper, a toy drum, a night stand, a booster seat, and an ointment container) and from items brought to the child's hospital room (e.g., an infant drinking cup and a car seat) were positive for vaccinia virus DNA," the researchers wrote.
Related Coverage

› UN again delays destruction of smallpox virus

They steam-cleaned the home and washed clothing and linens after an acid pre-treatment.

The World Health Organization declared smallpox eradicated in 1979. The U.S. government reinstated smallpox vaccination for military personnel and selected healthcare workers because of fears the virus could be used in a biological attack.

"The U.S. Department of Defense had vaccinated approximately 1.2 million persons as of March 2007," the report reads.

The smallpox vaccine uses a related and usually harmless virus called vaccinia. It is scratched into the skin and forms a pustule that scabs over and falls off.

People with eczema and immune conditions can develop a serious reaction if they are vaccinated or come into contact with the blisters of a vaccinated person.

The soldier received the vaccine even though he had a history of skin allergies.
Related Coverage

› Lincoln came near death from smallpox: researchers

"His deployment was delayed, so he made an unplanned visit home to visit his family in Indiana," the report reads. "His routine activities with his son included hugging, wrestling, sleeping, and bathing."

The child developed a rash and later severe illness. After a week of experimental treatments he began to get better.

The treatments included an antiviral drug made by Siga Technologies Inc., vaccinia immune globulin and the antiviral drug cidofovir, made by Gilead Sciences Inc..

The child's mother also had a rash, which went away after she got immune globulin, a treatment made from the blood of vaccinated people.

On Thursday a panel of FDA advisers recommended approval of a new smallpox vaccine made by Acambis Plc that is designed to be safer than the old vaccine.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby slomo » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:52 pm

alwyn » 16 Jul 2015 09:48 wrote:Regarding herd immunity induced by vaccines: (actually backs up what 82_28 says about vaccines)

stateofthenation2012.com/?p=14430
My name is Tetyana Obukhanych. I hold a PhD in Immunology. I am writing this letter in the hope that it will correct several common misperceptions about vaccines in order to help you formulate a fair and balanced understanding that is supported by accepted vaccine theory and new scientific findings.

Do unvaccinated children pose a higher threat to the public than the vaccinated?

It is often stated that those who choose not to vaccinate their children for reasons of conscience endanger the rest of the public, and this is the rationale behind most of the legislation to end vaccine exemptions currently being considered by federal and state legislators country-wide. You should be aware that the nature of protection afforded by many modern vaccines – and that includes most of the vaccines recommended by the CDC for children – is not consistent with such a statement. I have outlined below the recommended vaccines that cannot prevent transmission of disease either because they are not designed to prevent the transmission of infection (rather, they are intended to prevent disease symptoms), or because they are for non-communicable diseases. People who have not received the vaccines mentioned below pose no higher threat to the general public than those who have, implying that discrimination against non-immunized children in a public school setting may not be warranted.
Senator-Pan

State Senator Richard Pan of California, sponsor of vaccine legislation

IPV (inactivated poliovirus vaccine) cannot prevent transmission of poliovirus (see appendix for the scientific study, Item #1). Wild poliovirus has been non-existent in the USA for at least two decades. Even if wild poliovirus were to be re-imported by travel, vaccinating for polio with IPV cannot affect the safety of public spaces. Please note that wild poliovirus eradication is attributed to the use of a different vaccine, OPV or oral poliovirus vaccine. Despite being capable of preventing wild poliovirus transmission, use of OPV was phased out long ago in the USA and replaced with IPV due to safety concerns.

Tetanus is not a contagious disease, but rather acquired from deep-puncture wounds contaminated with C. tetani spores. Vaccinating for tetanus (via the DTaP combination vaccine) cannot alter the safety of public spaces; it is intended to render personal protection only.

While intended to prevent the disease-causing effects of the diphtheria toxin, the diphtheria toxoid vaccine (also contained in the DTaP vaccine) is not designed to prevent colonization and transmission of C. diphtheriae. Vaccinating for diphtheria cannot alter the safety of public spaces; it is likewise intended for personal protection only.

The acellular pertussis (aP) vaccine (the final element of the DTaP combined vaccine), now in use in the USA, replaced the whole cell pertussis vaccine in the late 1990s, which was followed by an unprecedented resurgence of whooping cough. An experiment with deliberate pertussis infection in primates revealed that the aP vaccine is not capable of preventing colonization and transmission of B. pertussis (see appendix for the scientific study, Item #2). The FDA has issued a warning regarding this crucial finding.[1]

Furthermore, the 2013 meeting of the Board of Scientific Counselors at the CDC revealed additional alarming data that pertussis variants (PRN-negative strains) currently circulating in the USA acquired a selective advantage to infect those who are up-to-date for their DTaP boosters (see appendix for the CDC document, Item #3), meaning that people who are up-to-date are more likely to be infected, and thus contagious, than people who are not vaccinated.

Senator Steiner Hayward

State Senator Elizabeth Steiner-Hayward of Oregon, sponsor of vaccine legislation

Among numerous types of H. influenzae, the Hib vaccine covers only type b. Despite its sole intention to reduce symptomatic and asymptomatic (disease-less) Hib carriage, the introduction of the Hib vaccine has inadvertently shifted strain dominance towards other types of H. influenzae (types a through f).These types have been causing invasive disease of high severity and increasing incidence in adults in the era of Hib vaccination of children (see appendix for the scientific study, Item #4). The general population is more vulnerable to the invasive disease now than it was prior to the start of the Hib vaccination campaign. Discriminating against children who are not vaccinated for Hib does not make any scientific sense in the era of non-type b H. influenzae disease.

Hepatitis B is a blood-borne virus. It does not spread in a community setting, especially among children who are unlikely to engage in high-risk behaviors, such as needle sharing or sex. Vaccinating children for hepatitis B cannot significantly alter the safety of public spaces. Further, school admission is not prohibited for children who are chronic hepatitis B carriers. To prohibit school admission for those who are simply unvaccinated – and do not even carry hepatitis B – would constitute unreasonable and illogical discrimination.

In summary, a person who is not vaccinated with IPV, DTaP, HepB, and Hib vaccines due to reasons of conscience poses no extra danger to the public than a person who is. No discrimination is warranted.

How often do serious vaccine adverse events happen?

It is often stated that vaccination rarely leads to serious adverse events. Unfortunately, this statement is not supported by science. A recent study done in Ontario, Canada, established that vaccination actually leads to an emergency room visit for 1 in 168 children following their 12-month vaccination appointment and for 1 in 730 children following their 18-month vaccination appointment (see appendix for a scientific study, Item #5).

When the risk of an adverse event requiring an ER visit after well-baby vaccinations is demonstrably so high, vaccination must remain a choice for parents, who may understandably be unwilling to assume this immediate risk in order to protect their children from diseases that are generally considered mild or that their children may never be exposed to.
senator mullin

State Senator Kevin Mullin of Vermont, sponsor of vaccine legislation

Can discrimination against families who oppose vaccines for reasons of conscience prevent future disease outbreaks of communicable viral diseases, such as measles?

Measles research scientists have for a long time been aware of the “measles paradox.” I quote from the article by Poland & Jacobson (1994) “Failure to Reach the Goal of Measles Elimination: Apparent Paradox of Measles Infections in Immunized Persons.” Arch Intern Med 154:1815-1820:

“The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons.”[2]

Further research determined that behind the “measles paradox” is a fraction of the population called LOW VACCINE RESPONDERS. Low-responders are those who respond poorly to the first dose of the measles vaccine. These individuals then mount a weak immune response to subsequent RE-vaccination and quickly return to the pool of “susceptibles’’ within 2-5 years, despite being fully vaccinated.[3]

Re-vaccination cannot correct low-responsiveness: it appears to be an immuno-genetic trait.[4] The proportion of low-responders among children was estimated to be 4.7% in the USA.[5]

Studies of measles outbreaks in Quebec, Canada, and China attest that outbreaks of measles still happen, even when vaccination compliance is in the highest bracket (95-97% or even 99%, see appendix for scientific studies, Items #6&7). This is because even in high vaccine responders, vaccine-induced antibodies wane over time. Vaccine immunity does not equal life-long immunity acquired after natural exposure.

It has been documented that vaccinated persons who develop breakthrough measles are contagious. In fact, two major measles outbreaks in 2011 (in Quebec, Canada, and in New York, NY) were re-imported by previously vaccinated individuals.[6]–[7]

Taken together, these data make it apparent that elimination of vaccine exemptions, currently only utilized by a small percentage of families anyway, will neither solve the problem of disease resurgence nor prevent re-importation and outbreaks of previously eliminated diseases.
Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, sponsor of federal vaccine legislation

Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, sponsor of federal vaccine legislation

Is discrimination against conscientious vaccine objectors the only practical solution?

The majority of measles cases in recent US outbreaks (including the recent Disneyland outbreak) are adults and very young babies, whereas in the pre-vaccination era, measles occurred mainly between the ages 1 and 15. Natural exposure to measles was followed by lifelong immunity from re-infection, whereas vaccine immunity wanes over time, leaving adults unprotected by their childhood shots. Measles is more dangerous for infants and for adults than for school-aged children.

Despite high chances of exposure in the pre-vaccination era, measles practically never happened in babies much younger than one year of age due to the robust maternal immunity transfer mechanism. The vulnerability of very young babies to measles today is the direct outcome of the prolonged mass vaccination campaign of the past, during which their mothers, themselves vaccinated in their childhood, were not able to experience measles naturally at a safe school age and establish the lifelong immunity that would also be transferred to their babies and protect them from measles for the first year of life.

Luckily, a therapeutic backup exists to mimic now-eroded maternal immunity. Infants as well as other vulnerable or immunocompromised individuals, are eligible to receive immunoglobulin, a potentially life-saving measure that supplies antibodies directed against the virus to prevent or ameliorate disease upon exposure (see appendix, Item #8).

In summary: 1) due to the properties of modern vaccines, non-vaccinated individuals pose no greater risk of transmission of polio, diphtheria, pertussis, and numerous non-type b H. influenzae strains than vaccinated individuals do, non-vaccinated individuals pose virtually no danger of transmission of hepatitis B in a school setting, and tetanus is not transmissible at all; 2) there is a significantly elevated risk of emergency room visits after childhood vaccination appointments attesting that vaccination is not risk-free; 3) outbreaks of measles cannot be entirely prevented even if we had nearly perfect vaccination compliance; and 4) an effective method of preventing measles and other viral diseases in vaccine-ineligible infants and the immunocompromised, immunoglobulin, is available for those who may be exposed to these diseases.

Taken together, these four facts make it clear that discrimination in a public school setting against children who are not vaccinated for reasons of conscience is completely unwarranted as the vaccine status of conscientious objectors poses no undue public health risk.

Sincerely Yours,

~ Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD

Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD, is the author of the book Vaccine Illusion. She has studied immunology in some of the world’s most prestigious medical institutions. She earned her PhD in Immunology at the Rockefeller University in New York and did postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA and Stanford University in California.

Dr. Obukhanych offers online classes for those who want to gain deeper understanding of how the immune system works and whether the immunologic benefits of vaccines are worth the risks: Natural Immunity Fundamentals.

Appendix

Item #1. The Cuba IPV Study collaborative group. (2007) Randomized controlled trial of inactivated poliovirus vaccine in Cuba. N Engl J Med 356:1536-44

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17429085

The table below from the Cuban IPV study documents that 91% of children receiving no IPV (control group B) were colonized with live attenuated poliovirus upon deliberate experimental inoculation. Children who were vaccinated with IPV (groups A and C) were similarly colonized at the rate of 94-97%. High counts of live virus were recovered from the stool of children in all groups. These results make it clear that IPV cannot be relied upon for the control of polioviruses.

polio chart

Item #2. Warfel et al. (2014) Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate model.Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 111:787-92

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24277828

“Baboons vaccinated with aP were protected from severe pertussis-associated symptoms but not from colonization, did not clear the infection faster than naïve [unvaccinated] animals, and readily transmitted B. pertussis to unvaccinated contacts. By comparison, previously infected [naturally-immune] animals were not colonized upon secondary infection.”

Item #3. Meeting of the Board of Scientific Counselors, Office of Infectious Diseases, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Tom Harkins Global Communication Center, Atlanta, Georgia, December 11-12, 2013

http://www.cdc.gov/maso/facm/pdfs/BSCOI ... inutes.pdf

Resurgence of Pertussis (p.6)

“Findings indicated that 85% of the isolates [from six Enhanced Pertussis Surveillance Sites and from epidemics in Washington and Vermont in 2012] were PRN-deficient and vaccinated patients had significantly higher odds than unvaccinated patients of being infected with PRN-deficient strains. Moreover, when patients with up-to-date DTaP vaccinations were compared to unvaccinated patients, the odds of being infected with PRN-deficient strains increased, suggesting that PRN-bacteria may have a selective advantage in infecting DTaP-vaccinated persons.”

Item #4. Rubach et al. (2011) Increasing incidence of invasive Haemophilus influenzae disease in adults, Utah, USA. Emerg Infect Dis 17:1645-50

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21888789

The chart below from Rubach et al. shows the number of invasive cases of H. influenzae(all types) in Utah in the decade of childhood vaccination for Hib.

Hib chart

Item #5. Wilson et al. (2011) Adverse events following 12 and 18 month vaccinations: a population-based, self-controlled case series analysis. PLoS One 6:e27897

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22174753

“Four to 12 days post 12 month vaccination, children had a 1.33 (1.29-1.38) increased relative incidence of the combined endpoint compared to the control period, or at least one event during the risk interval for every 168 children vaccinated. Ten to 12 days post 18 month vaccination, the relative incidence was 1.25 (95%, 1.17-1.33) which represented at least one excess event for every 730 children vaccinated. The primary reason for increased events was statistically significant elevations in emergency room visits following all vaccinations.”

Item #6. De Serres et al. (2013) Largest measles epidemic in North America in a decade–Quebec, Canada, 2011: contribution of susceptibility, serendipity, and superspreading events. J Infect Dis 207:990-98

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23264672

“The largest measles epidemic in North America in the last decade occurred in 2011 in Quebec, Canada.”

“A super-spreading event triggered by 1 importation resulted in sustained transmission and 678 cases.”

“The index case patient was a 30-39-year old adult, after returning to Canada from the Caribbean. The index case patient received measles vaccine in childhood.”

“Provincial [Quebec] vaccine coverage surveys conducted in 2006, 2008, and 2010 consistently showed that by 24 months of age, approximately 96% of children had received 1 dose and approximately 85% had received 2 doses of measles vaccine, increasing to 97% and 90%, respectively, by 28 months of age. With additional first and second doses administered between 28 and 59 months of age, population measles vaccine coverage is even higher by school entry.”

“Among adolescents, 22% [of measles cases] had received 2 vaccine doses. Outbreak investigation showed this proportion to have been an underestimate; active case finding identified 130% more cases among 2-dose recipients.”

Item #7. Wang et al. (2014) Difficulties in eliminating measles and controlling rubella and mumps: a cross-sectional study of a first measles and rubella vaccination and a second measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination. PLoS One9:e89361

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24586717

“The reported coverage of the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine is greater than 99.0% in Zhejiang province. However, the incidence of measles, mumps, and rubella remains high.”

Item #8. Immunoglobulin Handbook, Health Protection Agency

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... 2198450982

HUMAN NORMAL IMMUNOGLOBULIN (HNIG):

Indications

To prevent or attenuate an attack in immuno-compromised contacts
To prevent or attenuate an attack in pregnant women
To prevent or attenuate an attack in infants under the age of 9 months

[1] http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/ ... 376937.htm

[2] http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article ... eid=619215

[3] Poland (1998) Am J Hum Genet 62:215-220

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9463343

“ ‘poor responders,’ who were re-immunized and developed poor or low-level antibody responses only to lose detectable antibody and develop measles on exposure 2–5 years later.”

[4] ibid

“Our ongoing studies suggest that seronegativity after vaccination [for measles] clusters among related family members, that genetic polymorphisms within the HLA [genes] significantly influence antibody levels.”

[5] LeBaron et al. (2007) Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med 161:294-301

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17339511

“Titers fell significantly over time [after second MMR] for the study population overall and, by the final collection, 4.7% of children were potentially susceptible.”

[6] De Serres et al. (2013) J Infect Dis 207:990-998

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23264672

“The index case patient received measles vaccine in childhood.”

[7] Rosen et al. (2014) Clin Infect Dis 58:1205-1210

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24585562

“The index patient had 2 doses of measles-containing vaccine.”
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Thanks, this is a nice find.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:47 am

by slomo » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:52 pm
alwyn » 16 Jul 2015 09:48 wrote:
Regarding herd immunity induced by vaccines: (actually backs up what 82_28 says about vaccines)
[snip]

Thanks, this is a nice find.


slomo, don't be too quick to express approval of quoted material which some may find of questionable scientific value! A True (Skeptical) Man of Science will surely be along in a few moments to dismiss with a simple flick of the keyboard (and another quote or link) anything Tetyana Obukhanych might have to say.

Here, let me lend a helping hand:

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/appeal-to-false-authority-who-is-tetyana-obukhanych/

Fortunately, we live in a Democracy, and we can happily ignore all these paranoid fear-mongering nutbars who would have us questioning our faith in the compassionate goodwill and incorruptibility of politicians and scientists, and of the groups/organizations of which they are members.

The herd must be protected! (Even if it means your child might be one of the few unlucky ones to die or be permanently disabled as a result of an adverse reaction to a vaccine to which you are opposed. Not too great a price to pay for herd immunity, don't you agree?)
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby slomo » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:28 am

identity » 16 Jul 2015 21:47 wrote:
by slomo » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:52 pm
alwyn » 16 Jul 2015 09:48 wrote:
Regarding herd immunity induced by vaccines: (actually backs up what 82_28 says about vaccines)
[snip]

Thanks, this is a nice find.


slomo, don't be too quick to express approval of quoted material which some may find of questionable scientific value! A True (Skeptical) Man of Science will surely be along in a few moments to dismiss with a simple flick of the keyboard (and another quote or link) anything Tetyana Obukhanych might have to say.

Here, let me lend a helping hand:

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/appeal-to-false-authority-who-is-tetyana-obukhanych/

Fortunately, we live in a Democracy, and we can happily ignore all these paranoid fear-mongering nutbars who would have us questioning our faith in the compassionate goodwill and incorruptibility of politicians and scientists, and of the groups/organizations of which they are members.

The herd must be protected! (Even if it means your child might be one of the few unlucky ones to die or be permanently disabled as a result of an adverse reaction to a vaccine to which you are opposed. Not too great a price to pay for herd immunity, don't you agree?)

Fair enough, I didn't have time for the due-diligence on this one. Regardless of this particular person's credentials, I think it's important to acknowledge the complexity of immunology and the fact that "infectious" != "communicable" != "contagious". Herd immunity is an established concept related to the mathematics of infectious diseases, but the mathematics only applies under certain conditions. That's the real point.

I am a cancer epidemiologist, not an infectious disease epidemiologist, so I am not actually qualified to comment on the immunological detail other than to acknowledge the complexity of immunology.

Anyway, it's irrelevant. The real issue is autonomy, not the efficacy of any one particular vaccine, for one individual or for a population.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:51 am

Anyway, it's irrelevant. The real issue is autonomy, not the efficacy of any one particular vaccine, for one individual or for a population.


Exactly. But some would like to have us believe that the greatest good ("herd immunity") can only be realized by denying individuals their independent decision-making power and forcing them to defer to scientific/governmental authorities in matters which concern their own or their children's bodies. One must, therefore, examine the record of these so-called authorities with regard to their corruptibility and potential duplicity in matters regarding the public good, and one, alas, finds plenty of reasons to doubt claims of their unalloyed goodwill. Nevertheless, the True Men of Science insist that––regardless of any seemingly justified doubts one may entertain––all must submit to the authorities in these matters.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby 82_28 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:54 am

Not giving you shit at all slomo but if one kind of cancer can get vaccinated against doesn't it follow that all cancers can as well?
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby slomo » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:50 am

82_28 » 16 Jul 2015 22:54 wrote:Not giving you shit at all slomo but if one kind of cancer can get vaccinated against doesn't it follow that all cancers can as well?

Probably not. "Cancer" is about 100 or 500 different diseases, each with its own etiology. The "cervical cancer vaccine" is really just a vaccine against HPV (human papilloma virus), a mostly sexually transmitted virus that is known to cause many cervical cancers as well as some head/neck cancers (mostly oral). Although it is believed that many other cancers are ultimately caused by viral infection, not all of them are, and only a few of them are known (e.g. hepatocellular carcinoma via HCV infection). It's easiest to vaccinate against a foreign agent such as virus (although even this turns out to be quite difficult as evidened by the complexity of the immunology field); it is less easy to vaccinate against a somatic mutation or epimutation caused simply by errors in replication or other molecular machinery. However, it is increasingly becoming apparent that the immune system plays an important role in carcinogenesis, so it may be possible to use this for prevention (via more vaccines) but it is more likely that it will be used first for therapy. Melanoma is a good example of (some) success in that arena.

As an aside, HPV+ oral and cervical cancers are associated with better survival after treatment compared with HPV- oral and cervical cancers, which are more refractory to treatment. This is suggestive of the fact that in general it is easier to fight off cancers caused by viral infection than those that arise from other types of molecular failures.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby slomo » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:54 am

identity » 16 Jul 2015 22:51 wrote:
Anyway, it's irrelevant. The real issue is autonomy, not the efficacy of any one particular vaccine, for one individual or for a population.


Exactly. But some would like to have us believe that the greatest good ("herd immunity") can only be realized by denying individuals their independent decision-making power and forcing them to defer to scientific/governmental authorities in matters which concern their own or their children's bodies. One must, therefore, examine the record of these so-called authorities with regard to their corruptibility and potential duplicity in matters regarding the public good, and one, alas, finds plenty of reasons to doubt claims of their unalloyed goodwill. Nevertheless, the True Men of Science insist that––regardless of any seemingly justified doubts one may entertain––all must submit to the authorities in these matters.

I agree wholeheartedly, but good luck with that (fighting the Authorities). This is an age old problem, made more urgent by Their insistence on having unfettered access to our blood vessels.
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Re: Vaccine - Autism link

Postby identity » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:08 am

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