The censorship of the thin-skinned self-righteous

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Re: The censorship of the thin-skinned self-righteous

Postby stefano » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:28 pm

brekin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:54 pm wrote:Although, me thinks, this guy might have been prepping for such a legal-cultural wars-martyrdom and this was his Martin Luther moment.

I don't think so. Seems to me like he had problems with the approach of trying to bash all pegs into the same shape hole, and set out his thoughts on the issue carefully and after quite a bit of thought and study. He was trying to help his company.

brekin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:54 pm wrote:The bigger, mostly unstated irritants, I think were:

1. He, being (I assume) a straight white male in a white collar profession, (tech especially being the last bastion of the rich, intelligent but maybe out-of-touch, content perma-adolescent, nerdy white guy), spoke his mind openly on the taboo subject at a very poor performing time in tech with harassment, diversity and inclusion issues.

Yes. And of course feminists are touchy at the moment, as they (and anyone who wants fair treatment for women) should be, with Donald Trump being elected president and misogynists everywhere crawling out of the woodwork. But to see misogyny where it's not doesn't help.

brekin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:54 pm wrote:2. He brought up shame culture and the retaliatory nature of it.
3. After being regularly indoctrinated about such issues he dared present back his view/critique when his place is to just listen, self flagellate and atone.
4. He brought up the b-word, "Biology", albeit gingerly, non-noncommittally, and inconclusively that it could have something, possibly, with some members of a sex and their behavior. He obviously has been too busy dicking around with coding or whatnot at Google to know that, hello! Biology = Oppression now, you darwinian-technocratic-eugenic-medievalist!
5. But most troubling was that he put forth that the present "cure" might just be part of the greater malady - which someone of a supposed/actual, marginalized/protected/exploited class could find fault with - hence afflicting psychological trauma on them.

Ha.

brekin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:54 pm wrote:This is bad news for Google, though, because PR and work a day wise anyone who examines further than the tweet headline will see that Google, no stranger to censorship and glass bubble creation, is appearing to start a sacrificial cycle in the attempt to gain purity, for mostly appearances sake and the minders fearing "this could go too far with those who don't know how to think". It's like a dictator saying we are very progressive in my country, anyone caught being intolerant or insensitive we execute. And they are acquiescing to those who are the most reactive

I think reactive is the word. They're taking decisions in a panic, on the advice of lawyers... And Damore obviously isn't People Like Us, so whatever, just get rid of him.
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Re: The censorship of the thin-skinned self-righteous

Postby brekin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:35 pm

brekin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:54 pm wrote:Although, me thinks, this guy might have been prepping for such a legal-cultural wars-martyrdom and this was his Martin Luther moment.

stefano wrote:
I don't think so. Seems to me like he had problems with the approach of trying to bash all pegs into the same shape hole, and set out his thoughts on the issue carefully and after quite a bit of thought and study.


Possibly, I just don't think he could articulate the reality of the shame culture - globally and locally - if he didn't also realize there would be major blow back and repercussions. Writers of manifestos tend to flirt with revolution. That his "memo" is a manifesto and one that has blown up just shows how crazy things have become.

stefano wrote:
He was trying to help his company.


Yup, famous last words.

brekin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:54 pm wrote:The bigger, mostly unstated irritants, I think were:
1. He, being (I assume) a straight white male in a white collar profession, (tech especially being the last bastion of the rich, intelligent but maybe out-of-touch, content perma-adolescent, nerdy white guy), spoke his mind openly on the taboo subject at a very poor performing time in tech with harassment, diversity and inclusion issues.

stefano wrote:
Yes. And of course feminists are touchy at the moment, as they (and anyone who wants fair treatment for women) should be, with Donald Trump being elected president and misogynists everywhere crawling out of the woodwork. But to see misogyny where it's not doesn't help.


Agreed. I think not only doesn't it help, it actually feeds the misogs, their enablers, and fellow travelers.

brekin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:54 pm wrote:2. He brought up shame culture and the retaliatory nature of it.
3. After being regularly indoctrinated about such issues he dared present back his view/critique when his place is to just listen, self flagellate and atone.
4. He brought up the b-word, "Biology", albeit gingerly, non-noncommittally, and inconclusively that it could have something, possibly, with some members of a sex and their behavior. He obviously has been too busy dicking around with coding or whatnot at Google to know that, hello! Biology = Oppression now, you darwinian-technocratic-eugenic-medievalist!
5. But most troubling was that he put forth that the present "cure" might just be part of the greater malady - which someone of a supposed/actual, marginalized/protected/exploited class could find fault with - hence afflicting psychological trauma on them.

stefano wrote:
Ha.


brekin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:54 pm wrote:This is bad news for Google, though, because PR and work a day wise anyone who examines further than the tweet headline will see that Google, no stranger to censorship and glass bubble creation, is appearing to start a sacrificial cycle in the attempt to gain purity, for mostly appearances sake and the minders fearing "this could go too far with those who don't know how to think". It's like a dictator saying we are very progressive in my country, anyone caught being intolerant or insensitive we execute. And they are acquiescing to those who are the most reactive


stefano wrote:
I think reactive is the word. They're taking decisions in a panic, on the advice of lawyers... And Damore obviously isn't People Like Us, so whatever, just get rid of him.


Yeah, I just think they are going to find that there are more People Like Damore, active, sleeping, and unengaged previously, who aren't going to like this, feel threatened, and it will be polarizing. It just reinforces the narrative that you can't talk reasonably about such topics anymore, especially at work, because if you differ slightly from the ever changing and nebulous micro-progressive-status quo, it will be misconstrued, conflated, used as ammunition, and you will have your ass handed to you, all in the name of progress.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: The censorship of the thin-skinned self-righteous

Postby stefano » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:56 am

This is good. Extracts

The Dying Art of Disagreement
...
According to a new survey from the Brookings Institution, a plurality of college students today — fully 44 percent — do not believe the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects so-called “hate speech,” when of course it absolutely does. More shockingly, a narrow majority of students — 51 percent — think it is “acceptable” for a student group to shout down a speaker with whom they disagree. An astonishing 20 percent also agree that it’s acceptable to use violence to prevent a speaker from speaking.

These attitudes are being made plain nearly every week on one college campus or another.

There are speakers being shouted down by organized claques of hecklers — such was the experience of Israeli ambassador Michael Oren at the University of California, Irvine. Or speakers who require hundreds of thousands of dollars of security measures in order to appear on campus — such was the experience of conservative pundit Ben Shapiro earlier this month at Berkeley. Or speakers who are physically barred from reaching the auditorium — that’s what happened to Heather MacDonald at Claremont McKenna College in April. Or teachers who are humiliated by their students and hounded from their positions for allegedly hurting students’ feelings — that’s what happened to Erika and Nicholas Christakis of Yale.

And there is violence. Listen to a description from Middlebury College professor Allison Stanger of what happened when she moderated a conversation with the libertarian scholar Charles Murray in March:

The protesters succeeded in shutting down the lecture. We were forced to move to another site and broadcast our discussion via live stream, while activists who had figured out where we were banged on the windows and set off fire alarms. Afterward, as Dr. Murray and I left the building . . . a mob charged us.

Most of the hatred was focused on Dr. Murray, but when I took his right arm to shield him and to make sure we stayed together, the crowd turned on me. Someone pulled my hair, while others were shoving me. I feared for my life. Once we got into the car, protesters climbed on it, hitting the windows and rocking the vehicle whenever we stopped to avoid harming them. I am still wearing a neck brace, and spent a week in a dark room to recover from a concussion caused by the whiplash.


Middlebury is one of the most prestigious liberal-arts colleges in the United States, with an acceptance rate of just 16 percent and tuition fees of nearly $50,000 a year. How does an elite institution become a factory for junior totalitarians, so full of their own certitudes that they could indulge their taste for bullying and violence?

There’s no one answer. What’s clear is that the mis-education begins early. I was raised on the old-fashioned view that sticks and stones could break my bones but words would never hurt me. But today there’s a belief that since words can cause stress, and stress can have physiological effects, stressful words are tantamount to a form of violence. This is the age of protected feelings purchased at the cost of permanent infantilization.

The mis-education continues in grade school. As the Brookings findings indicate, younger Americans seem to have no grasp of what our First Amendment says, much less of the kind of speech it protects. This is a testimony to the collapse of civics education in the United States, creating the conditions that make young people uniquely susceptible to demagogy of the left- or right-wing varieties.

Then we get to college, where the dominant mode of politics is identity politics, and in which the primary test of an argument isn’t the quality of the thinking but the cultural, racial, or sexual standing of the person making it. As a woman of color I think X. As a gay man I think Y. As a person of privilege I apologize for Z. This is the baroque way Americans often speak these days. It is a way of replacing individual thought — with all the effort that actual thinking requires — with social identification — with all the attitude that attitudinizing requires.

In recent years, identity politics have become the moated castles from which we safeguard our feelings from hurt and our opinions from challenge. It is our “safe space.” But it is a safe space of a uniquely pernicious kind — a safe space from thought, rather than a safe space for thought, to borrow a line I recently heard from Salman Rushdie.

Another consequence of identity politics is that it has made the distance between making an argument and causing offense terrifyingly short. Any argument that can be cast as insensitive or offensive to a given group of people isn’t treated as being merely wrong. Instead it is seen as immoral, and therefore unworthy of discussion or rebuttal.

The result is that the disagreements we need to have — and to have vigorously — are banished from the public square before they’re settled. People who might otherwise join a conversation to see where it might lead them choose instead to shrink from it, lest they say the “wrong” thing and be accused of some kind of political -ism or -phobia. For fear of causing offense, they forego the opportunity to be persuaded.
...
I began this talk by noting that Americans have rarely disagreed so vehemently about so much. On second thought, this isn’t the whole truth.

Yes, we disagree constantly. But what makes our disagreements so toxic is that we refuse to make eye contact with our opponents, or try to see things as they might, or find some middle ground.

Instead, we fight each other from the safe distance of our separate islands of ideology and identity and listen intently to echoes of ourselves. We take exaggerated and histrionic offense to whatever is said about us. We banish entire lines of thought and attempt to excommunicate all manner of people — your humble speaker included — without giving them so much as a cursory hearing.

The crucial prerequisite of intelligent disagreement — namely: shut up; listen up; pause and reconsider; and only then speak — is absent.
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