It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:16 am

I've been a huge Lynch fan since I saw Dune as a kid. Seen all of Lynch's films in theaters as of Fire Walk With Me, and have everything he's done on dvd. All I was saying is that some of the sequences have been leaning on the comedy absurdist end, and I understand that may also be Mark Frost in there too(same critique I had regarding some of the 1991 Season 2) Overall tho I absolutely love Twin Peaks the Return, to an almost obsessive level. The way theyve handled the David Bowie "Agent Jeffries" character especially seems to tie everything together. TP The Return/Season 3 indeed seems to be the culmination of many digital short films in the 2000s mixed with paintings and work he's done stretching back to Eraserhead. But I can also sense they had to stretch some material and plots from the original Showtime order of 9 to the eventual 18 hour long episodes.

At any rate, good to have Coop back and can't wait for the 2 hour finale. And hope Lynch and Frost create a new tv series, a return to TP or even a new feature film
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:23 pm

Thank you for explaining, 8bit. I figure you're in the throes of a pre-awakened state, ala Lynchland. I got a chuckle from 'it's all coming together' because I see it as 'all coming apart'. Ironically, we're both right - you'll see!.

I'm not a fan boy, so to speak. I've never been infatuated by a movie or rock star or sports figure or artist enough to closely follow their career. I haven't seen some of Lynch's greatest acclaimed works. Yeah, Dune I need to see once again. Although I read it, I really don't recall from the flick enough to comment. I wasn't all that impressed by Mulholland Drive and haven't seen Blue Velvet Simply put, I admire Lynch's uniquely creative approach to story telling.
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:45 pm

8bitagent » 30 Aug 2017, 09:16 wrote:But I can also sense they had to stretch some material and plots from the original Showtime order of 9 to the eventual 18 hour long episodes.


I don't think they're stretching material to fill out episodes per se. I think Lynch is using the 18 hours to do what he would do if he had the freedom to do it, which he now does. If you look back at everything he's done, one of his many constants has been pacing. Note all of the footage that has been nixed over the years, the infamous way-longer version of Dune, for example: He could almost never get the freedom to use that amount of time and space. Look what he did with <i>Inland Empire</i>. The freedom afforded with his digital guerilla approach gave him the three-plus hours he'd wanted with every previous work. Since he was spending next to nothing comparatively speaking, he didn't care whether the lack of distro would keep him from a bigger box office.

In both short-form and long, from the beginning, he has always paced his scenes very very slowly, most noticeably the comic ones. Robert Forester commented on this, and how he'd never done anything like it with any other director, and how he found it odd at first, but ultimately liberating. A classic payoff of this technique in The Return, of which I think their are many, is the scene where Sheriff Truman informs Ben Horne of the latest on his wayward grandson, and Ben eventually taking his immense, sweet time as he veers into his reminiscences of his own father and that Schwinn bicycle. Classic Ben. Classic Lynch.
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby vondardanelle » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:35 pm

i've really enjoyed all of this season so far, can't wait until tonight. i can understand that people have struggled with the pacing but i think everyone (myself definitely included) will do better with it on a re-watch. i don't watch alot of TV, so i could be wrong about this, but I don't think anyone takes this approach in television-- even among the more celebrated recent shows (True Detective season 2 is a possible exception, but that clearly borrowed heavily from lynch). it reminds me a bit of when you're starting to meditate-- you just have to sit there for 5-10 minutes but it can feel like the hardest thing you've done all week. it's different, but ultimately good for you. i feel like that scene of the guy sweeping up the roadhouse will become a pivotal moment by 3d or 4th re-watch of the series (i also feel like they could pull some "it was all a dream" type ending where that scene shows the "real" roadhouse or something like that). what a series though... drink deep and descend
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:41 pm

So.... how about that ending?
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby Laodicean » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:54 pm

Mind fuck.

Edit: this coming from someone with an Omar avatar.

Episodes 8 and 18 of The Return will be etched in my mind for quite some time. Brilliant.
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby norton ash » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:27 pm

It was a scream.
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby vondardanelle » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:03 am

that last scene was incredible. i thought i was prepared for a less than conclusive ending, i was not. what a ride. my immediate reaction is that i really hope they do not make a 4th season, but i sure as hell didn't think season 3 would be as it was, so maybe a 4th season is a good idea?
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:00 am

vondardanelle wrote:that last scene was incredible. i thought i was prepared for a less than conclusive ending, i was not. what a ride. my immediate reaction is that i really hope they do not make a 4th season, but i sure as hell didn't think season 3 would be as it was, so maybe a 4th season is a good idea?


I doubt there will be a 4th season. but maybe a movie or two, or a miniseries kind of deal. The guys over at Obnoxious and Anonymous (definitely one of the reviewers worth a listen/watch if you're into the analysis thing) are convinced there will be something more, in part because apparently Showtime has contractual control over the ability of even actors who played minor characters to make media appearances. In any case, If there is more Twin Peaks in any format, I pity anyone who expects it to answer any questions without asking 3 for every one it answers. And I'm nowhere near as confident as the O&A guys that more is coming, as I think Lynch might well be satisfied leaving things as they are.

I was prepared for a less than conclusive ending, but I was not prepared for so many threads to be left untied. I'm still not sure how I feel about that aspect, but it bothers me less as time goes on. And I have never been in the camp of the angry viewers, who apparently feel like their time was wasted by not getting a clear answer to Audrey, or what was the deal with Red, or the young adults in part 8, etc.

I was hoping to get more content related to the Blue Rose side of things, as far as they relate to Project Blue Book and extra/intra-terrestrials. But I guess that's more of a Frost interest than Lynch, and the absence of anything explicit in that vein didn't hurt my enjoyment.

I'm still digesting everything from the final 2 parts a week later. I listened to more and more media about The Return as it drew to a close and have been exhausting all the podcasts and youtubers I touched on during the season since the finale aired. There are some good thoughts and theories out there, but also many that aggravate me because they spend so much time developing elaborate theories that they miss the forest for the trees. I know Lynch is obscure, but I often get the feeling people assume so much to be obscure that they ignore the obvious connections in their faces that require no theorizing, including things that are clearly stated in dialogue as well as those conveyed by image and sound. Part of me wishes The Return had never brought the word "tulpa" into the lexicon of the Peaks fandom, since they left the definition muddy, and the use of the word has inadvertently encouraged many people to construct ridiculous (to me) theories around the idea person X or Y might be a tulpa.

I was definitely engaged strongly throughout The Return, and it has left me and others thinking about it a lot, so in that vein it is an unparalleled success, regardless of whether one was particularly satisfied with the ending.
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:04 am

I suspect that for the many fans who are old enough to have enjoyed the first two seasons, the return and its conclusion have meant a great deal of bitter sweetness that has as much to do with saying goodbye to their youth once again. Of course, I'm projecting. On that note, I agree with mentalgongfu about the tediousness of much of the theorizing. What I enjoyed this time around is the more consistent dream logic throughout. To my way of dreaming, DL has nailed the pattern pretty good. So much of what played out this season was straight out of a dream and the director, seemingly having already perfected it, has raised it to an even newer artform. No one does dreams like Lynch, in my opinion.
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby vondardanelle » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:12 pm

this was a pretty interesting take on the series: https://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/

skip it if you're still coming to your own conclusions (or avoiding conclusions).
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:34 am

I feel torn. I watched all 18 episodes of Twin Peaks The Return, read endless Reddit theories, listened to Twin Peaks podcasts...but I felt royally let down by the 2 hour finale. Especially the goofy cheesy "Sheriff Station showdown" of Episode 17. I hated the Episode 18 ending at first, tho I guess now I kind of get it. In the end, it's a moebius strip, a loop. Theyre now stuck in a loop. Cooper(now "Richard") may have "saved" Laura from her fate in Fire Walk With Me with the help of David Bowie Tea Kettle. But supreme evil Judy/Mother/JAO DAI and Mrs Chalfont in the end use their trickster magic to win. It sounds hopeless, that Laura is in perpetual hell through multiple timelines...however Cooper no matter what iteration he becomes, will always be there to save her.

Still...was hoping we'd see cameos from past Lynch films like Mulholland Drive, Blue Velvet and Lost Highway to make the finale even more meta.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
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Re: It is happening... again. Twin Peaks, that is.

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:51 pm

Having just rewatched Part 11, I am surprised I missed "the dream" aspect central to any meaningful analysis of the episode. Indeed, it seems nearly everyone I've read/seen has not touched on a couple of things I caught. Namely, how much one might view any number of sequences in regards to who it is that might be dreaming it. I defy anyone to tell me that the scene where Bobby & Shelly are talking to their daughter in the Double R, and a shot is fired into the front window, Bobby goes out to be confronted with the kid who managed to fire the gun from the back of his parent's car, the horn honking, the crazy woman and her convulsing vomiting kid is not a dream. Two scenes later, Gordon Cole delivers a classic one liner that'd be meaningless otherwise were it not for the previous scene. Gordon, Albert, et al are brought a couple trays of coffee and doughnuts to which Gordon proclaims, "A policeman's dream."

Also, there are a number of timeline discrepancies I hadn't noticed the first time around, which leads me to believe that their are multiple dreamers sliding in and out of alternate universes by way of their dreams. The Mitchum brothers' Candy, who had only recently been beside herself for having accidentally cut her bosses face, is suddenly massively emotionally disconnected from them. Not all there, as it were. Not long after this brother one tells brother two about his dream where the other brother's scar Candy caused is completely healed. And they check and it is.
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