Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demon"

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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby Bryter » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:33 pm

Searcher08 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:59 pm wrote:Bryter, can I ask if anyone recieved information similar to some of the experiences described earlier in the thread of an awareness under Ayahuasca of the presence of a 'silicon-based' or machine intelligence?


Not to my knowledge, no. One thing I've noticed about Ayahusca is that it seems to have an extremely broad spectrum of effects, and that people can have wildly different kinds of experiences. Having said that, I don't think I've heard anyone talk about it in those terms. Terence Mckenna used to talk about the "machine elves", but that was on smoked DMT.
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby coffin_dodger » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:17 pm

Maybe the brew is a good personal indicator of where ones current 'god' lies in the psyche. Maybe a devout Christian would see a white chatty bearded guy with sandals, whilst an atheist with an iphone 5S sees silicon based circuitry and AI. :shrug:
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby BrandonD » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:52 pm

coffin_dodger » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:17 pm wrote:Maybe the brew is a good personal indicator of where ones current 'god' lies in the psyche. Maybe a devout Christian would see a white chatty bearded guy with sandals, whilst an atheist with an iphone 5S sees silicon based circuitry and AI. :shrug:


I would agree that there are elements of the psyche "coming alive" in this experience, but that is not the whole story, not by a long stretch. Any attempt to reduce the psychedelic state to something fitting snugly within an intellectual category will inevitably ignore some aspects while emphasizing others.

I would've expected to see something related to christian theology because of my strong religious upbringing, I would've also expected to see ufos/aliens/greys due to my interest/obsession with that subject. But none of that took place in any of my 5 ceremonies.

In Peru I had experiences, as well as actual physical marks on my body, that corresponded to the mythology of South American/Mesoamerican shamanism - and this was before I had read anything about their mythology, so I had nothing within my psyche to instigate those experiences. My "spiritual" views were actually altered by the experience, rather than my existing beliefs simply being bolstered.
"One measures a circle, beginning anywhere." -Charles Fort
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby zangtang » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:44 pm

has 5 been enough for you? - the 2nd stringer shaman at my 1 experience told us that we would 'feel the need to return to Ayahuasca'........

right here right now, i would dearly love to revisit........

for the (unofficial) record, i received no intimation of even a suspicion of mechanicalness/AI-ness, but i 'got' an answer to what i asked - and i consciously
do not say the 'answer i wanted'............

going to wipe al the ego out and the stuff about how i'm confident i'm not breaking the rules by explicating etc etc.......
but i askeed her not to hurt me....weak and feeble supplicating truthseeker i be....and she didnt......
(and i dont do do that Gaiia as living Goddess thing) - but this was wholly 'organic' - in the sense that planetary beings are mere siblings of their Solar long-suffering and ever-giving/nuturing
Big bloody Spiritual Being.......
executive summary : (the human race) 'yeah, i could wipe you out........but i could grow another one'
so yeah, i feel the need to revisit - even if to ask the same question again.

on the mechanical Elves front - which i believe is DMT related, and whilst chemical correspondences etc, not the same thing (tho i'm not yet in a position to report back)
- front line, motherfuckahs!!!!!
- I'm gagging to to 'have a bash' at DMT - defy any of you to call me a coward if i tell you i'm scared shitless!!!!!!
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby BrandonD » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:09 am

zangtang » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:44 pm wrote:has 5 been enough for you? - the 2nd stringer shaman at my 1 experience told us that we would 'feel the need to return to Ayahuasca'........

right here right now, i would dearly love to revisit........

for the (unofficial) record, i received no intimation of even a suspicion of mechanicalness/AI-ness, but i 'got' an answer to what i asked - and i consciously
do not say the 'answer i wanted'............

going to wipe al the ego out and the stuff about how i'm confident i'm not breaking the rules by explicating etc etc.......
but i askeed her not to hurt me....weak and feeble supplicating truthseeker i be....and she didnt......
(and i dont do do that Gaiia as living Goddess thing) - but this was wholly 'organic' - in the sense that planetary beings are mere siblings of their Solar long-suffering and ever-giving/nuturing
Big bloody Spiritual Being.......
executive summary : (the human race) 'yeah, i could wipe you out........but i could grow another one'
so yeah, i feel the need to revisit - even if to ask the same question again.

on the mechanical Elves front - which i believe is DMT related, and whilst chemical correspondences etc, not the same thing (tho i'm not yet in a position to report back)
- front line, motherfuckahs!!!!!
- I'm gagging to to 'have a bash' at DMT - defy any of you to call me a coward if i tell you i'm scared shitless!!!!!!


I always want to return, but I'm also aware that if I do return then it may very well be my last time here on earth. So I need to treat the situation with the respect that it deserves. I will drop over the waterfall when it is time, for now I strive to be present until it's time to do otherwise.

Sorry about the silly language, I don't know how to say it any other way.
"One measures a circle, beginning anywhere." -Charles Fort
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby Luther Blissett » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:20 pm

From the DARPA newsletter

AI Has Arrived, and That Really Worries the World’s Brightest Minds
BY ROBERT MCMILLAN 01.16.15

On the first Sunday afternoon of 2015, Elon Musk took to the stage at a closed-door conference at a Puerto Rican resort to discuss an intelligence explosion. This slightly scary theoretical term refers to an uncontrolled hyper-leap in the cognitive ability of AI that Musk and physicist Stephen Hawking worry could one day spell doom for the human race.

That someone of Musk’s considerable public stature was addressing an AI ethics conference—long the domain of obscure academics—was remarkable. But the conference, with the optimistic title “The Future of AI: Opportunities and Challenges,” was an unprecedented meeting of the minds that brought academics like Oxford AI ethicist Nick Bostrom together with industry bigwigs like Skype founder Jaan Tallinn and Google AI expert Shane Legg.

Musk and Hawking fret over an AI apocalypse, but there are more immediate threats. In the past five years, advances in artificial intelligence—in particular, within a branch of AI algorithms called deep neural networks—are putting AI-driven products front-and-center in our lives. Google, Facebook, Microsoft and Baidu, to name a few, are hiring artificial intelligence researchers at an unprecedented rate, and putting hundreds of millions of dollars into the race for better algorithms and smarter computers.

AI problems that seemed nearly unassailable just a few years ago are now being solved. Deep learning has boosted Android’s speech recognition, and given Skype Star Trek-like instant translation capabilities. Google is building self-driving cars, and computer systems that can teach themselves to identify cat videos. Robot dogs can now walk very much like their living counterparts.

“Things like computer vision are starting to work; speech recognition is starting to work There’s quite a bit of acceleration in the development of AI systems,” says Bart Selman, a Cornell professor and AI ethicist who was at the event with Musk. “And that’s making it more urgent to look at this issue.”

Given this rapid clip, Musk and others are calling on those building these products to carefully consider the ethical implications. At the Puerto Rico conference, delegates signed an open letter pledging to conduct AI research for good, while “avoiding potential pitfalls.” Musk signed the letter too. “Here are all these leading AI researchers saying that AI safety is important,” Musk said yesterday. “I agree with them.”

Google Gets on Board
Nine researchers from DeepMind, the AI company that Google acquired last year, have also signed the letter. The story of how that came about goes back to 2011, however. That’s when Jaan Tallinn introduced himself to Demis Hassabis after hearing him give a presentation at an artificial intelligence conference. Hassabis had recently founded the hot AI startup DeepMind, and Tallinn was on a mission. Since founding Skype, he’d become an AI safety evangelist, and he was looking for a convert. The two men started talking about AI and Tallinn soon invested in DeepMind, and last year, Google paid $400 million for the 50-person company. In one stroke, Google owned the largest available talent pool of deep learning experts in the world. Google has kept its DeepMind ambitions under wraps—the company wouldn’t make Hassabis available for an interview—but DeepMind is doing the kind of research that could allow a robot or a self-driving car to make better sense of its surroundings.

That worries Tallinn, somewhat. In a presentation he gave at the Puerto Rico conference, Tallinn recalled a lunchtime meeting where Hassabis showed how he’d built a machine learning system that could play the classic ’80s arcade game Breakout. Not only had the machine mastered the game, it played it a ruthless efficiency that shocked Tallinn. While “the technologist in me marveled at the achievement, the other thought I had was that I was witnessing a toy model of how an AI disaster would begin, a sudden demonstration of an unexpected intellectual capability,” Tallinn remembered.



Deciding the dos and don’ts of scientific research is the kind of baseline ethical work that molecular biologists did during the 1975 Asilomar Conference on Recombinant DNA, where they agreed on safety standards designed to prevent manmade genetically modified organisms from posing a threat to the public. The Asilomar conference had a much more concrete result than the Puerto Rico AI confab.

At the Puerto Rico conference, attendees signed a letter outlining the research priorities for AI—study of AI’s economic and legal effects, for example, and the security of AI systems. And yesterday, Elon Musk kicked in $10 million to help pay for this research. These are significant first steps toward keeping robots from ruining the economy or generally running amok. But some companies are already going further. Last year, Canadian roboticists Clearpath Robotics promised not to build autonomous robots for military use. “To the people against killer robots: we support you,” Clearpath Robotics CTO Ryan Gariepy wrote on the company’s website.

Pledging not to build the Terminator is but one step. AI companies such as Google must think about the safety and legal liability of their self-driving cars, whether robots will put humans out of a job, and the unintended consequences of algorithms that would seem unfair to humans. Is it, for example, ethical for Amazon to sell products at one price to one community, while charging a different price to a second community? What safeguards are in place to prevent a trading algorithm from crashing the commodities markets? What will happen to the people who work as bus drivers in the age of self-driving vehicles?

TO THE PEOPLE AGAINST KILLER ROBOTS: WE SUPPORT YOU.
Itamar Arel is the founder of Binatix, a deep learning company that makes trades on the stock market. He wasn’t at the Puerto Rico conference, but he signed the letter soon after reading it. To him, the coming revolution in smart algorithms and cheap, intelligent robots needs to be better understood. “It is time to allocate more resources to understanding the societal impact of AI systems taking over more blue-collar jobs,” he says. “That is a certainty, in my mind, which will take off at a rate that won’t necessarily allow society to catch up fast enough. It is definitely a concern.”

Predictions of a destructive AI super-mind may get the headlines, but it’s these more prosaic AI worries that need to be addressed within the next few years, says Murray Shanahan, a professor of cognitive robotics with Imperial College in London. “It’s hard to predict exactly what’s going on, but we can be pretty sure that they are going to affect society.”
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:53 am

That worries Tallinn, somewhat. In a presentation he gave at the Puerto Rico conference, Tallinn recalled a lunchtime meeting where Hassabis showed how he’d built a machine learning system that could play the classic ’80s arcade game Breakout. Not only had the machine mastered the game, it played it a ruthless efficiency that shocked Tallinn. While “the technologist in me marveled at the achievement, the other thought I had was that I was witnessing a toy model of how an AI disaster would begin, a sudden demonstration of an unexpected intellectual capability,” Tallinn remembered.


How can you play breakout with ruthless efficiency?

This sort of sensationalist writing certainly doesn't add any clarity to debates about AI.
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby Freitag » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:17 am

Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:53 pm wrote:How can you play breakout with ruthless efficiency?

This sort of sensationalist writing certainly doesn't add any clarity to debates about AI.


It shows how in the video of the lecture... it's pretty interesting actually. They also show the AI playing various other video games to illustrate the point.
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby coffin_dodger » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:41 am

From Luther's post:
AI Has Arrived, and That Really Worries the World’s Brightest Minds
BY ROBERT MCMILLAN 01.16.15
<snip>
TO THE PEOPLE AGAINST KILLER ROBOTS: WE SUPPORT YOU.
Itamar Arel is the founder of Binatix, a deep learning company that makes trades on the stock market. He wasn’t at the Puerto Rico conference, but he signed the letter soon after reading it. To him, the coming revolution in smart algorithms and cheap, intelligent robots needs to be better understood. “It is time to allocate more resources to understanding the societal impact of AI systems taking over more blue-collar jobs,” he says. “That is a certainty, in my mind, which will take off at a rate that won’t necessarily allow society to catch up fast enough. It is definitely a concern.


This is the more pressing aspect of AI (the watered down version of AI i.e. a car that drives itself) that needs to be addressed immediately - whilst the scary AI that takes over the world and eradicates us is still a long way off.

It's currently more about societal impact (is your job going the way of the dinosaurs?)

For example, in a few years, driverless technology will allow for heavy-goods vehicles to make deliveries without a driver. That's a few hundred thousand jobs gone across the Western World alone.

An excerpt from "Too Different For Comfort" previously posted here -
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21495&p=531657&hilit=robolution#p531657
- shows that those with the means of finance and control of production are already aware that enormous changes to our society are afoot (and are positioning themselves accordingly) :

Now when we think of robots replacing humans, we can probably break down jobs into one of four categories:

•Category 1 workers: non repetitive, non complex:
Gardeners, plumbers, ski instructors, hair-dressers,… These jobs are not in danger and will likely continue to be the largest source of job growth across the OECD and emerging markets.

•Category 2 workers: non repetitive, complex:
Pharmaceutical research, software coding, civil or mechanical engineering, hedge fund managers... Such jobs are not in danger. Quite the contrary - demand will likely increase and salaries rise, allowing those working in these fields to purchase more goods and services from the workers toiling in categories 1, 3 and 4.

•Category 3 workers: repetitive and complex
: Airline pilots, surgeons, highly qualified industrial jobs, equity traders…Within the OECD, these are the jobs threatened by the Robolution.

•Category 4 workers: repetitive, very simple
: Manufacturing jobs, low end farming jobs etc… Think Charlie Chaplin in the movie Modern Times
. Such jobs have already disappeared in the OECD – they will now disappear in emerging markets


Of course, over time, as AI becomes more advanced, category 2 and catagory 1 jobs will become threatened.

There are soon going to be an awfully large amount of people with no means of earning money in a global society where earning money is God.

And the few people that own the production will be The New Gods.
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:08 am

That is actually just how you play breakout. i wouldn't call it ruthlessly efficient. Efficient maybe, but what did they expect it to do? I don't think it took me 4 hours of breakout to work out the easiest way to play it.

Maybe an EATR robot with this capacity might be scary, but ruthless is a human word describing a human way to do things. Chainsaws are ruthless too.
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:56 am

Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:08 pm wrote:That is actually just how you play breakout. i wouldn't call it ruthlessly efficient. Efficient maybe, but what did they expect it to do? I don't think it took me 4 hours of breakout to work out the easiest way to play it.

Maybe an EATR robot with this capacity might be scary, but ruthless is a human word describing a human way to do things. Chainsaws are ruthless too.


I think ruthless is the wrong word too; what that video showed was hugely significant to me. This was not a case of human AI programmers teaching the machine the rules for the game and helping the machine get better. It was the AI being shown a pattern of pixels and adaptively learning for itself.
The scary combination to me is getting networks of adaptive AI programs doing adaptive learning on themselves... we are already seeing the top AI researchers experiencing WTF moments at the rapidity of advance.....
"Automata" is already starting to seem mild.
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:14 am

It was the AI being shown a pattern of pixels and adaptively learning for itself.


Do you remember when the robots learned to lie?
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:43 am

I'm beginning to understand why AI could be seen as such a threat to the big players.

Imagine an AI that's patched into everything. The internet. Comms. Transactions. Media.

A mighty thinking, deductive machine that is able to see patterns beyond human cognition. Oh, what demons that machine would expose!
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby zangtang » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:42 am

maybe it would learn to 'divine' patterns which aren't actually 'there', ........and
start to derive 'false' conclusions leading to wrong assumptions
and slip into er...'paranoia'

whole world of fun -

especially if it then turns to another AI to sort itself out and it
surmises the 'other' is lying to it in order to destroy it.

and then starts marshallling any forces it can commandeer......
and WW4 starts - before we've even got WW3 properly settled into an irrevocable phase-state
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Re: Elon Musk: Artificial intelligence = "summoning the demo

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:29 pm

The Edge question is an embarrassment of riches on this very subject:

http://edge.org/annual-question/what-do ... that-think

So much brainfood. Very few rote responses.
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