Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, leftists

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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby coffin_dodger » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:25 pm

Title of thread started by AD:
Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, leftists


In the same thread:
As to "fascists" I'm not sure if I would use that word here but I would certainly say "far right".


Ok, now I know you're fucking with us. Fair enough.
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby slimmouse » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:29 pm

Ok, now I know you're fucking with us. Fair enough.


Im never sure if its not the other way around.

You know, like were almost fucking with ourselves
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby American Dream » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:38 pm

Matthew Lyons wrote that title- he is an expert on these things, so I'd defer to his wisdom in certain matters.

That said, sorting out the particulars of who amongst a list including: Israel Shamir, Aleksandr Dugin, League of the South militants, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, etc. is a bit tricky. I prefer to develop the use of terms such as "Radical Right", "Revolutionary Right", etc.- when appropriate- and most especially "Far Right" as a better catch-all than the much-used, "Fascist" moniker...
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby coffin_dodger » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:48 pm

Dya know what, slim, I don't know any more. I came to this site after reading Jeff''s guide to 911, lurked for years, joined, started to contribute and got sucked into this godawful fascist/anti-semetic merry-go-round that RI GD is obsessed with. It's started to bore me a while ago, it's always the same - no headwind is made in any direction - yet I keep getting sucked back into it. I need to find another venue where the focus is less on pointing the finger at a system controlled left or right and more on alternatives - something I've been led to believe here on RI to which there is no solution to, but at least I'd rather sit around cogitating that than be assaulted daily with the fear-mongered 'fascist around every corner' that wants to eat my babies. I haven't encountered a fascist in the UK for at least 35 years, I don't know any fascists, only ever hear about them here at RI and I'm sick of a boogeyman invading my life every day. Any US citizen casting aspersions about a fascist UK is a fucking joke.

"Well, just don't read it, then" - that's exactly what I intend to do.
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby slimmouse » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:13 pm

.
Any US citizen casting aspersions about a fascist UK is a fucking joke.


Your taking that kind of thing personally?

Seriously?

I remember a recent conversation, where I suggested the latest podcast by Neil Kramer.

What I learned from that podcast, amidst a host of other things, is that the single state of Oregon, which is substantially larger in area than the entire UK ( population 60 million? ) has a population of only 4 million people.

Its hard to push a lot of fascism into that, was my immediate thought
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby American Dream » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:45 pm

coffin_dodger » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:48 pm wrote: I haven't encountered a fascist in the UK for at least 35 years, I don't know any fascists, only ever hear about them here at RI and I'm sick of a boogeyman invading my life every day


You don't think the Far Right has any connection whatsoever to the conspiracy community?
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:47 pm

there are many different conspiracy communities ...it would be nice if you would admit that and quit lumping them all in the same commune
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby American Dream » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:53 pm

Because I reference the conspiracy community as one ecology does not mean that I ignore the reality of different smaller ecologies within that sphere. It's meaningful to look at all the interconnections because they do exist.
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:55 pm

they're not only in the same sphere ...they are not even on the same planet

no interconnection

could you be so kind as to label the conspiracy club you're talking about
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby American Dream » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:02 am

I could name a lot of points where the Far Right and the conspiracy community connect. In fact, as you do know, I have done so many times before.

We've been over this ground before and I'm content just to agree to disagree with you.
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:10 am

American Dream » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:02 pm wrote:I could name a lot of points where the Far Right and the conspiracy community connect. In fact, as you do know, I have done so many times before.

We've been over this ground before and I'm content just to agree to disagree with you.



But what conspiracy community are you talking about?

Notable political conspiracies[edit]
This is an incomplete list that may never be able to satisfy particular standards for completeness. You can help by expanding it with reliably sourced entries.
1st century BC – Catiline conspiracies [1]
44 BC – Liberatores plot assassination of Julius Caesar to restore Roman Republic [2]
AD 65 – Pisonian conspiracy [3]
Late 15th century (1478) – Pazzi conspiracy, which included the Pope [4]
1506 – Conspiracy against the life of the brothers Alfonso I d'Este, Duke of Ferrara and Cardinal Ippolito d'Este, coordinated by their half brother Giulio d'Este and full brother Ferrante d'Este [5]
1570 – Ridolfi plot against Elizabeth I of England [6]
1583 – Throckmorton Plot to murder Elizabeth and replace her with her cousin Mary, Queen of Scots [7]
1586 – Babington Plot, second major plot against Elizabeth, that led most directly to execution of Mary, Queen of Scots [8][9]
1603 – Main Plot to remove James I of England and enthrone Arbella Stuart
1603 – Bye Plot, leads to the execution of Sir George Brooke [10]
1605 – Gunpowder Plot to blow up the House of Lords during the State Opening of Parliament as prelude to a popular revolt in the Midlands, during which James's nine-year-old daughter, Princess Elizabeth, was to be installed as the Catholic head of state; often called the Gunpowder Treason Plot; origin of Guy Fawkes Day [11]
1788 – Anjala conspiracy [12]
1865 – Abraham Lincoln assassination plot, to include assassination of cabinet members [13]
1898 – The Dreyfus Affair, a coordinated attempt to falsely accuse Alfred Dreyfus of treason [14]
1903 – The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, presented as authentic text by the Tsar's secret police efforts to foment anti-Semitism [15]
1914 – The Black Hand, a secret society controlled by Serbian Military Intelligence, coordinates the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, thus causing World War I.
1932 to 1972 – Tuskegee syphilis experiment, to study natural progression of untreated syphilis in black men who thought they were receiving free health care [16]
1936 to 1950 – Presumed General Motors streetcar conspiracy [17]
1938 – Presumed Hitler Youth Conspiracy, NKVD case in Moscow involving some 70 arrests and 40 executions of teenagers and adults, later found to be baseless [18]
1939 – Operation Himmler and its Gleiwitz incident, "False Flag" terrorism by Nazi Germany as pretext for invasion of Poland
1939 Shelling of Mainila, "False Flag" terrorism by USSR as pretext for Winter War [19]
1943 – Bomb on Hitler's aircraft, an attempt on Adolf Hitler [20]
1941 – British wartime plan PR4 to invade and to occupy neutral Norway also code-named "Stratford"
1941 – Bombing of Pearl Harbour, Hawaii by the Japanese [21][22]
1944 – July 20 Plot, attempt to assassinate Hitler with suitcase bomb, and then use Operation Valkyrie to grab power [23][24]
1948 to 1976 – Operation Mockingbird, until then CIA director George H. W. Bush prohibited paid media recruiting [25][26]
1942 – Wannsee Conference, related to Final Solution of 3rd Reich Nazis [27]
1945 – Operation Paperclip, extraction of top Nazi scientists (incl. SS Nazi Party members) [28][29]
1948 to early 1980s – Operation Gladio CIA-NATO 'stay-behind' preparations [30][31]
1953 to ? – MKULTRA mind control program [32]
1953 – 1953 Iranian coup d'état Anglo-American conspiracy under the names of 'Operation Ajax' (CIA ) and 'Operation Boot' (MI6) [33]
1954 – Lavon affair Operation Susannah, "False Flag" terrorism by Mossad [34]
1960s – Project GAMMA allusion to attempts to assassinate Norodom Sihanouk, called Project CHERRY
1962 – Operation Northwoods – A rejected proposal for the CIA to commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere.[35]
1968 – The Markovic affair, French Secret Service Gaullist plot destabilise future president Georges Pompidou [36]
1969 to 1972 – Secret war in Laos, and Operation Menu in Cambodia, concealed from Congressional oversight [37]
1972 – Watergate scandal, burglary and cover-up scandals [38]
1982 – Brighton Bombings [39]
1982 – Fighting Solidarity [40]
1983 – October surprise [41][42]
1984 – Rajneeshee bioterror attack [43]
1987 – Iran-Contra Affair [44][45]
1987 – Various CIA involvements in overseas coups d'état
1991 – Nayirah testimony to rally U.S. public support to launch the Gulf War
1967 to 1974 – Strategy of tension theory in re series of incidents in Italy [46]
2000s – Operation Merlini [47]
2002 – Downing Street Memo [48][49]
2002 – September Dossier to justify Iraq invasion
2002 – Yellowcake forgery [50]
2003 – Iraq and weapons of mass destruction pretext for War in Iraq[51]
2007 to 2015 – PRISM (surveillance program)


Acquired derogatory meaning[edit]
Originally a neutral term, since the mid-1960s, in the aftermath of the assassination of US President John F. Kennedy, it has acquired a derogatory meaning, implying a paranoid tendency to see the influence of some malign covert agency in events.[14] The term is often used to dismiss claims that the critic deems ridiculous, misconceived, paranoid, unfounded, outlandish, or irrational.[15] A conspiracy theory that is proven to be correct, such as the notion that United States President Richard Nixon and his aides conspired to cover up Watergate, is usually referred to as something else, such as investigative journalism or historical analysis.[16] Despite conspiracy theorists often being dismissed as a "fringe group," evidence suggests that people from "a broad cross-section of Americans today—traversing ethnic, gender, education, occupation, and other divides" believe in a wide variety of conspiracy theories.[17] The term often implies that the proposed explanation of events is perceived as violating Occam's razor or the principle of falsifiability.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:17 am

wiki

Types[edit]
Walker's five kinds[edit]
Jesse Walker (2013) has developed a historical typology of five basic kinds of conspiracy theories:

The first identifies an "Enemy Outside," with devilish figures mobilizing outside the community and scheming against the community.

The "Enemy Within" finds the conspirators lurking inside the nation, indistinguishable from ordinary citizens.

The "Enemy Above" involves powerful people manipulating the system for their own gain.

The "Enemy Below" features the lower classes ready to break through their constraints and overturn the social order.

Finally, there are the "Benevolent Conspiracies," where angelic forces work behind the scenes to improve the world and help people.[30]
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby American Dream » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:20 am

slad, I'm going to let it go at this but I did not mean cabals of conspirators or types of Theory. I meant the broad community of people who read about, talk about, think about, and/or investigate conspiracies. The Far Right has a long, long history of using us, in order to advance its own agenda.


A.D.
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:22 am

and/or investigate conspiracies.

what conspiracies are you talking about ....why can't you just name them
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Moscow conference draws fascists, neo-Confederates, left

Postby American Dream » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:28 am

I've got to go but I'm referring to any and all conspiracies- real and/or imagined. The Far Right is active now in fomenting certain ideas through our community, in order to organize for reactionary causes. This hurts us in a lot of different ways.
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