Any RI Mustachians?

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Any RI Mustachians?

Postby Freitag » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:10 am

Does anyone here follow the financial/lifestyle principles of Mr. Money Mustache?

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

He's all about financial independence and early retirement, made possible by living a frugal, anti-consumerist lifestyle. It's a mindset I thought might find some acceptance here at RI.

The plan is basically:

  • Work until you save 25x your needed income
  • Speed up the process by living as frugally as possible
  • Invest in low-cost index funds
  • Retire early, living on 4% of your nest egg annually

I very much like his ideas, although some things are too extreme for me (like not owning a car). Also the plan is a bit simplistic and has faced some criticism from people more financially savvy than myself. But I'm using it as inspiration and general guidance which I can tailor to my own life--much as I did with Dave Ramsey's advice on becoming debt-free.

Do any other RIers follow MMM, or have thoughts on frugal living, investing, or early retirement?
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby semper occultus » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:53 am

.....on a personal level one of the issues ( aside from the monthly bank payment ) keeping me on the treadmill is I just think I'd get bored & socially isolated wthout a job tbh.....much as I examine this assumption every Monday morning when the alarm goes off...

..depends what alternative you're giving up of course but strikes me you'd be living one step from penury...is your nest egg there to provide the income revenue stream or to be available for big ticket capital outgoings and unforseen events...( ntm forseeable ones like ending up geriatric ) .....it can't do both indefinielty ...unless your relying on never ending growth in equitiy markets & the continuation of the entire edifice that whole ball of wax is predicated on.....

these ideas make alot more sense on a communal level - partly because of the social aspect & much greater ability to attain a level of self sufficiency, range of useful skills & general resilience to exogenous knocks that fate dishes out....
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby Elvis » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:15 am

Thanks for the OP. I hadn't heard of Mr. Money Moustache before, but I read several of his articles and I like what he's saying (and doing). Overall, it's a good philosophy. I like that he's not selling anything -- no seminars, no books, no videos etc. (the Google Ads on the page don't count).

I'm lucky to have cheap rent in an apartment I like (have lived here for 25 years!). Haven't had a car for about 12 years, still loving it. In that time, I've turned down three 'free' cars; in my case, fortunately, they're a luxury I can do without.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby NaturalMystik » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:10 pm

hehehe, whenever we are about to make a frivolous financial decision, it's always prefaced by "That's not very mustachian"...

I'm definitely on his bus though. I'm self employed and have multiple revenue streams. As such, I'm very close to the value of a dollar and am relatively frugal. I don't spend a dollar without deciding whether It's worth doing work for or not. You see, like most people I'd rather not work. It's called work, not fun. I'd much prefer to go in for a day of "Fun" as opposed to day of "work". I'm amazing at how many thousands of dollars people waste away on food, entertainment, trinkets, and clothes. It seems like many folks have an unrealistic ideal of the standard of living they deserve, and the trappings said lifestyle requires, and think nothing of racking up massive debts to pay for it all.

Next steps, ditch the multiple revenue streams and figure out how to start earning some legit dividends...

I couldn't get away with not having a car though.
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby Freitag » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:16 pm

NaturalMystik » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:10 am wrote:Next steps, ditch the multiple revenue streams and figure out how to start earning some legit dividends...


Dividends are awesome, I'm going to stuff my Roth IRA with dividend stocks. But they're great even outside of a Roth because if you're in the 15% tax bracket or below, the tax on qualified dividends and long-term capital gains is... 0 :)

I wish I'd been around in the days when you could get ridiculously high rates on Treasury bonds. From Clark Howard's website:

My wife bought Series I bonds at their peak interest rates and she's earning 8.2% on her savings bonds today.


If I ever see a situation like that recur in my investing life, no matter what other investments are doing, I'll jump all over it.

NaturalMystik » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:10 am wrote:I couldn't get away with not having a car though.


I hear ya. The shitty part for me is that I actually could. I'm on the fence about selling it. If it weren't paid off, I definitely would. I still might.

Elvis wrote:Thanks for the OP. I hadn't heard of Mr. Money Moustache before, but I read several of his articles and I like what he's saying (and doing).


The philosophy makes a lot of sense, it sounds like you're doing most if it already. I wish I'd grown up knowing it was "okay" to live like that. I've sleepwalked into so many bad habits.

He does have affiliate links in some articles, but he's not trying to hide the fact that he makes money from the website. The whole website is about how making money is good.

semper occultus wrote:.....on a personal level one of the issues ( aside from the monthly bank payment ) keeping me on the treadmill is I just think I'd get bored & socially isolated wthout a job tbh.....much as I examine this assumption every Monday morning when the alarm goes off...


I hear ya, sometimes I think the same. I'm willing to risk it though... I could always go back to work.

semper occultus wrote:..depends what alternative you're giving up of course but strikes me you'd be living one step from penury...is your nest egg there to provide the income revenue stream or to be available for big ticket capital outgoings and unforseen events...( ntm forseeable ones like ending up geriatric ) .....it can't do both indefinielty ...unless your relying on never ending growth in equitiy markets & the continuation of the entire edifice that whole ball of wax is predicated on.....


I know what you mean. At first I thought it would involve penury but it really hasn't (yet).

The nest egg is there to provide income indefinitely, in MMM's model. (Unforseen events would come from a separate emergency fund.) His investing advice I think is... optimistic. I definitely won't be investing 100% in equities. Although he does say that retirement doesn't mean you never work again, it just means you have the freedom to choose what you do and are working because you want to. For me, financial independence is much more important than early retirement. I don't trust the stock market either :)

Anyway here's a link to some Boglehead criticism of MMM: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=136322

semper occultus wrote:these ideas make alot more sense on a communal level - partly because of the social aspect & much greater ability to attain a level of self sufficiency, range of useful skills & general resilience to exogenous knocks that fate dishes out....


Exactly. And self sufficiency is also the best way to help others. It takes a position of strength to be able to help someone else.
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby Gnomad » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:44 pm

I thought this would be a thread about moustaches.
I am disappointed somewhat.
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby NeonLX » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:03 pm

I downsized in a big way last year. Divorce kind of forced it. I'm living pretty damned cheaply. Good thing, because I'm paying an outrageous amount in monthly "maintenance" to my ex.

She is a shop-aholic. She rang up an enormous amount of debt. Of course, my name was on a lot of the debt instruments.

No cable teevee, no internet, no land line, not even a microwave. With few exceptions, I buy everything used (if I buy anything).

I'll never be able to retire. She gets half of my limited retirement account.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby Freitag » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:51 am

I'm sorry to hear that Neon. The frugal lifestyle is certainly more fun when you do it because you want to and not have to.

Although MMM's advice is not one-size-fits-all, I think it can help many people, with inspiration if nothing else.
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby Sounder » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:50 am

Living life through transitional objects produces a weight on the soul.

The solution is simple.

Old Spanish proverb; Take what you want, then pay for it.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby Elvis » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:16 am

At first I was put off a bit by Mr.Moustache's talk of "getting rich" -- but I quickly saw that a rich life for him doesn't mean constantly striving for more and more.

But just now I heard an NPR segment about the 'plight of the middle class' and it was all about "a better life" -- with the sole focus on income and "class mobility." The usual blind grasping for more. These traditional, bottomless middle-class yearnings are a curse on society.

As I've said before here, "middle class" is a state of mind, and not a healthy one.

Thank you for listening.
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby KUAN » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:41 am

Old Spanish proverb; Take what you want, then pay for it.


I do that with my visa card
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby Freitag » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:37 am

Elvis » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:16 pm wrote:These traditional, bottomless middle-class yearnings are a curse on society.


Absolutely. It's sad. Which is why I feel so bad about the schadenfreude I felt from reading the entire 147-page thread at the MMM forum, "Overheard at Work". It's about dumb money decisions people see their coworkers making. It's funny in some cases, but really genuinely sad in others.
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:38 pm

Thank you very much for making me aware of this, Freitag. After reading Getting Rich: From Zero to Hero in One Blog Post, I signed up to the email list. The subject matter is definitely up my alley, and I like that he seems to have a great sense of humor in approaching it. Looking forward to discovering more!
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby Freitag » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:09 pm

stillrobertpaulsen » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:38 am wrote:Thank you very much for making me aware of this, Freitag. After reading Getting Rich: From Zero to Hero in One Blog Post, I signed up to the email list. The subject matter is definitely up my alley, and I like that he seems to have a great sense of humor in approaching it. Looking forward to discovering more!


You're welcome! Check out the forums too, they're very active.
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Re: Any RI Mustachians?

Postby NeonLX » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:51 pm

I do feel rich now. It's nice not to be running so quickly on the hamster wheel.

I eat, I sleep in a warm bed. I have 2 cats.

I can walk to work, and take the bus almost anywhere I want to go. I live within a 3 minute walk of a big park on the shore of a lake.

I have time to read. I'm on a Philip K. Dick kick right now.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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