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tapitsbo » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:46 pm wrote:brainpanhandler » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:40 am wrote:divideandconquer » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:58 am wrote:I do not question the fact that a vast number (whether that number is one million or six million, who knows?)
The Nazis kept meticulous records. Tens of millions of documents exist recording their atrocities. We know, to a much greater degree of certainty than "give or take 5 million."
I do not feel qualified to evaluate this claim; what I do know is that I have been taught in university that understanding the holocaust requires a rejection of documentary evidence in favour of eyewitness testimony.
Part of the explanation for this was indeed a problem of missing or incomplete documentation - then there is the converse claim about meticulous records.
What is going on here? I certainly don't trust either the mainstream or "revisionist" narratives.
divideandconquer » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:23 am wrote:And you have to admit that a common tactic of holocaust revisionists or any historical revisionists with an agenda to bury or obfuscate the truth is to innocently claim, "I'm just asking questions" as an opener and cry censorship at the slightest sign of a failure to patiently entertain them endlessly. It's a useful and partly successful tactic.
Why/how did this number, six million, become so sacred in the first place? It's as if they're baiting the anti-Semites so they can use it in their campaign to silence critics of Israeli policy. I mean, how many millions of native Americans were slaughtered? African Americans? Africans? Rwandans slaughtered in less than 100 days? Palestinians? Armenians? All clearly genocide, only some spread out over centuries. Yet, no hallowed number, or powerful political group using the questioning of that anointed number to justify accusations of racism in their campaign to silence critics of their nation's policies.The debate over the actual number of jews murdered by the nazis, necessarily estimates, is in my experience often the thin end of a wedge used to create an opening for revisionists. When I see it I become imo justifiably suspicious.
Once again, why discredit, defame and silence those with opposing viewpoints or questions? When I see this, I become suspicious. If it's true, ask away...nothing to hide.
tapitsbo » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:28 pm wrote:This is why it's curious that people are still being taught in university that there's "no documentation".
I guess for me the most bizarre part of the narrative about the Holocaust is all the stuff about the conquering Allies being shocked and surprised by all of the atrocities. Meanwhile it's obvious that massive segments of the Axis and Allied establishment were working together quite closely (or at the very least had thoroughly penetrated each other).
brainpanhandler » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:23 pm wrote:divideandconquer » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:23 am wrote:And you have to admit that a common tactic of holocaust revisionists or any historical revisionists with an agenda to bury or obfuscate the truth is to innocently claim, "I'm just asking questions" as an opener and cry censorship at the slightest sign of a failure to patiently entertain them endlessly. It's a useful and partly successful tactic.
Why/how did this number, six million, become so sacred in the first place? It's as if they're baiting the anti-Semites so they can use it in their campaign to silence critics of Israeli policy. I mean, how many millions of native Americans were slaughtered? African Americans? Africans? Rwandans slaughtered in less than 100 days? Palestinians? Armenians? All clearly genocide, only some spread out over centuries. Yet, no hallowed number, or powerful political group using the questioning of that anointed number to justify accusations of racism in their campaign to silence critics of their nation's policies.The debate over the actual number of jews murdered by the nazis, necessarily estimates, is in my experience often the thin end of a wedge used to create an opening for revisionists. When I see it I become imo justifiably suspicious.
Once again, why discredit, defame and silence those with opposing viewpoints or questions? When I see this, I become suspicious. If it's true, ask away...nothing to hide.
I said nothing about silencing anyone. Are you wanting to defend Zundel's right to write and publish whatever he wants?
I reserve the right to discredit and defame lying scumbags. I'm less certain about the tenuous argument that holocaust revisionism leads to more persecution.
divideandconquer » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:03 pm wrote: Now, I question everything I've learned from the lying, predatory, brainwashing establishment.
I reserve the right to discredit and defame lying scumbags
coffin_dodger » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:13 pm wrote:bph said:I reserve the right to discredit and defame lying scumbags
Is this 'right' to abuse and belittle anyone that disagrees with you (and The System) based on the truth that you proclaim to be in possession of?
brainpanhandler wrote:coffin_dodger » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:13 pm wrote:bph said:I reserve the right to discredit and defame lying scumbags
Is this 'right' to abuse and belittle anyone that disagrees with you (and The System) based on the truth that you proclaim to be in possession of?
No.
tapitsbo » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:17 pm wrote:To be fair I don't see bph abusing or belittling.
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