Palestine

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Re: Palestine

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:35 pm

As far as false accusations go against the Palestinians, this whopper from Netanyahu has got to be one of the top five most offensive of all time:

Israel's Netanyahu Claims It Was the Palestinians Who Convinced Hitler to Exterminate the Jews
A new bizarre kind of Holocaust revisionism has arrived.
By Zaid Jilani / AlterNet
October 20, 2015

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is not known for his nuance, but his disregard for historical facts themselves took a new turn today as he claimed, in a speech in Israel, that Nazi leader Adolf Hitler actually did not want to exterminate Jews until a Palestinian religious leader convinced him otherwise.

Here's what Netanyahu said:

My grandfather came to this land in 1920 and he landed in Jaffa, and very shortly after he landed he went to the immigration office in Jaffa. And a few months later it was burned down by marauders. These attackers, Arab attackers, murdered several Jews, including our celebrated writer Brenner.

And this attack and other attacks on the Jewish community in 1920, 1921, 1929, were instigated by a call of the Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini, who was later sought for war crimes in the Nuremberg trials because he had a central role in fomenting the final solution. He flew to Berlin. Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, "If you expel them, they'll all come here." "So what should I do with them?" he asked. He said, "Burn them."

Watch video of the remarks:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnXS146cxLE

This statement is almost too absurd to debunk, but for the record, Haj Amin al-Husseini met Hitler in November 1941. Although the origins of the Final Solution itself have been hotly debated among historians, we do know that by March of that year Hitler was openly talking about a need to make sure the “Jewish-Bolshevik elite” would be killed, as well as “all Jews and card-carrying Communists” in the lands that Germany was taking from the Soviet Union; this order was carried out by Heinrich Himmler, who delivered these instructions to the Einsatzgruppen on March 13th, 1941. The phrase “complete solution of the Jewish question” was first uttered by Nazi leader Hermann Goering who gave the task to SS General Reinhardt Heydrich on July 31st, 1941. The killing centers in Poland were organized under so-called Operation Reinhard, and work on these units began in October 1941, a month before the Mufti visited Jerusalem.

It is a sad irony that Netanyahu is distorting the history of the Holocaust in order to shift blame to the Palestinians, but it makes sense in the context of his politics. Netanyahu's goal has been to deny Palestinians rights and to claim they are simply driven by irrational hatred – this form of incitement that shifts blame from the Nazis themselves to the Palestinians is exactly in line with his politics. But the absurdity of the claim may backfire on him.
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
-Jim Garrison 1967
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Re: Palestine

Postby Sounder » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:20 am

Brandon D wrote...
It is an error, this idea that it's necessary to identify with an arbitrarily delineated group in order to feel pride in one's self as a human being.


Perhaps for some it is as simple as that, for others it is a way defend the community from external hostile forces, usually traced to bankers, Soros funded NGO's and transnational corporations. :wink

Palestinians deserve a nation, well for one because that area has been called Palestine for a long time, yet not as a shallow means to feel pride in one's self as a human being, but as the only way to stop themselves being used for target practice.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Palestine

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:52 am

stillrobertpaulsen » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:35 pm wrote:As far as false accusations go against the Palestinians, this whopper from Netanyahu has got to be one of the top five most offensive of all time:

Israel's Netanyahu Claims It Was the Palestinians Who Convinced Hitler to Exterminate the Jews
A new bizarre kind of Holocaust revisionism has arrived.
By Zaid Jilani / AlterNet
October 20, 2015

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is not known for his nuance, but his disregard for historical facts themselves took a new turn today as he claimed, in a speech in Israel, that Nazi leader Adolf Hitler actually did not want to exterminate Jews until a Palestinian religious leader convinced him otherwise.

Here's what Netanyahu said:

My grandfather came to this land in 1920 and he landed in Jaffa, and very shortly after he landed he went to the immigration office in Jaffa. And a few months later it was burned down by marauders. These attackers, Arab attackers, murdered several Jews, including our celebrated writer Brenner.

And this attack and other attacks on the Jewish community in 1920, 1921, 1929, were instigated by a call of the Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini, who was later sought for war crimes in the Nuremberg trials because he had a central role in fomenting the final solution. He flew to Berlin. Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, "If you expel them, they'll all come here." "So what should I do with them?" he asked. He said, "Burn them."

Watch video of the remarks:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnXS146cxLE

This statement is almost too absurd to debunk, but for the record, Haj Amin al-Husseini met Hitler in November 1941. Although the origins of the Final Solution itself have been hotly debated among historians, we do know that by March of that year Hitler was openly talking about a need to make sure the “Jewish-Bolshevik elite” would be killed, as well as “all Jews and card-carrying Communists” in the lands that Germany was taking from the Soviet Union; this order was carried out by Heinrich Himmler, who delivered these instructions to the Einsatzgruppen on March 13th, 1941. The phrase “complete solution of the Jewish question” was first uttered by Nazi leader Hermann Goering who gave the task to SS General Reinhardt Heydrich on July 31st, 1941. The killing centers in Poland were organized under so-called Operation Reinhard, and work on these units began in October 1941, a month before the Mufti visited Jerusalem.

It is a sad irony that Netanyahu is distorting the history of the Holocaust in order to shift blame to the Palestinians, but it makes sense in the context of his politics. Netanyahu's goal has been to deny Palestinians rights and to claim they are simply driven by irrational hatred – this form of incitement that shifts blame from the Nazis themselves to the Palestinians is exactly in line with his politics. But the absurdity of the claim may backfire on him.



:shock:
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Palestine

Postby NeonLX » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:14 am

I used to think that "Armageddon" was merely a fairy tale believed by religious nutters.

Either I'm turning into a religious nutter, or Armageddon is starting to seem like a distinct possibility.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: Palestine

Postby 82_28 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:10 am

I wouldn't go that far, but I would say the appearance of "Armageddon" is totally possible because it is a myth that can never lose. Just like "when do you think WW3 is going to happen" -- all bullshit. This world has always been at some fake ass and unnecessary war. It's the subjugation of people that do not want the intrusion to their normal lives. When they refuse turn the vice one more time. Not too cruel, but just enough to make ordinary people more miserable and find themselves in a situation they did not choose.

On all levels of thought I do not get any of it.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Palestine

Postby NeonLX » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:19 pm

82_28 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:10 am wrote:On all levels of thought I do not get any of it.


Me either. Except, as my mom used to say, "Them what has, gets".

Greed & power go hand in hand and we let the psychopaths "rule" us. So that hasn't changed in millennia.

My biggest fear is the coming water wars and massive displacement on the North American continent. We are in for an abrupt change in climate. Not 20 years from now, not 10, but in the next year or two. Actually, it has started already and the change may be exponential from here on.

I care for the rest of the world, but I happen to live on the North American continent. I'll be in the thick of it here.
America is a fucked society because there is no room for essential human dignity. Its all about what you have, not who you are.--Joe Hillshoist
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Re: Palestine

Postby BrandonD » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:19 pm

Sounder » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:20 am wrote:Brandon D wrote...
It is an error, this idea that it's necessary to identify with an arbitrarily delineated group in order to feel pride in one's self as a human being.


Perhaps for some it is as simple as that, for others it is a way defend the community from external hostile forces, usually traced to bankers, Soros funded NGO's and transnational corporations. :wink

Palestinians deserve a nation, well for one because that area has been called Palestine for a long time, yet not as a shallow means to feel pride in one's self as a human being, but as the only way to stop themselves being used for target practice.


We aren't in any disagreement with regards to Palestine. I was approaching this subject from a broader more philosophical point of view (so it's probably out of place in a thread specifically titled "Palestine" :lol: )

I try to look at subjects from a broader point of view so that I can appraise individual situations with equanimity.
"One measures a circle, beginning anywhere." -Charles Fort
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Re: Palestine

Postby backtoiam » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:58 am

I didn't think this situation could get any worse but apparently it is spiraling even further out of control.

Do not click this unless you think you can handle the graphic nature of this video. This video contains graphic footage of a mob dragging a Palestenian down in the dirt, getting their rope ready to hang him, and twisting and breaking his legs.

This is one of the worst things I have ever seen. It made me feel very strange. Be warned!

https://youtu.be/KUXowdnIbkA
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Re: Palestine

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:34 pm

Fallout from the Gaza Blockade
October 22, 2015

Israel’s enforcement of its Gaza blockade has involved storming aid ships in international waters, including the 2010 assault on the Turkish ship Mavi Marmara in which Israeli commandos killed nine people, a case that has now led to a lawsuit against former Israeli Defense Minister Barak, writes Ann Wright.


By Ann Wright

A lawsuit has been filed in the United States against former Israeli Prime Minister and Defense Minister Ehud Barak for his role in the 2010 Israeli commando attack upon the Gaza Freedom Flotilla in which eight Turkish citizens and one American citizen were killed by Israeli forces and over 50 Turkish passengers were wounded.

The trial would be the first time a former Israeli Prime Minister would be put on trial for reasons of international terrorism.

The family of Furkan Doğan, the American citizen who appears to have been executed in the attack — shot five times, including point blank to the head, according to the family’s lawyers — filed the lawsuit in the Central District Court of California. Notice of the trial was handed to Barak on Oct. 20 in Los Angeles when he spoke in the Distinguished Speaker series of Southern California.

According to a press release from the Turkish International Humanitarian organization that sponsored the Mavi Marmara ship, charges against Barak include his planning and leadership in the murder of Furkan Doğan and others in international waters, willful killing, attempted willful killing, intentionally causing serious injury to body or health, international terrorism, plundering, intentionally causing damage to property, restriction of people’s freedom and instigating violent crimes.

American attorneys Hydee Dijsktal and Dan Stormer; the British law firm, Stoke & White; British Professor Dr. Geoffrey Nice; and UK attorney Rodney Dixon are the legal team for the Dogan family.

Other legal proceedings against Barak and other senior members of the Israeli government are in the works. In 2010 in France, the widows of Cevdet Kılıçlar and Necdet Yıldırım, two others executed by Israeli commandos, brought a lawsuit against Barak which he evaded when he was informed of the French lawsuit as he was about to deplane in Paris to attend a weapons expo.

In a case brought in the International Criminal Court (ICC), the ICC prosecutor has ruled that the attack by Israeli commandos upon the Mavi Marmara in the Gaza Freedom Flotilla was a war crime.

Additionally, the Seventh High Criminal Court in Istanbul, Turkey, has issued a “red notice” for the arrest of four senior Israeli government officials in a lawsuit filed in Turkey. The Israeli officials named by the court are Israel’s former Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi, former navy chief Eliezer Marom, former military intelligence head Amos Yadlin, and former air force intelligence chief Avishai Levy.

Due to political considerations dealing with the State of Israel, the Ministry of Justice of Turkey has delayed sending to Interpol the “red notice” much to the consternation of those seeking justice.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Palestine

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:08 pm

BrandonD wrote,
Palestinians deserve a nation, well for one because that area has been called Palestine for a long time, yet not as a shallow means to feel pride in one's self as a human being, but as the only way to stop themselves being used for target practice.


Sadly, most sadly I say, to witness such revisionist history become what it is: A falsification of factual past events.

Palestine is a country and always, always has been. Palestinians do not need a country; the so-called Israelis do. And they're taking what's left of Palestine for their own. Illegally and morbidly.

Israel was created through many acts of terrorism, which they continue to use today to expand their territory.

And I'm not anti-semetic! Wrong is wrong. If we're to believe a nation's right to self-determination is paramount, how terribly we've failed the Palestinian people and how sad we encouraged the creation of Israel, and the crimes all have committed since.
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Re: Palestine

Postby backtoiam » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:11 pm

This video isn't as bad as the last one, but still pretty sad, to say the least. Apparently there is a vigorous debate going on among some of the Rabbis whether or not to just go ahead and kill wounded Palestinians. One Rabbi said no, some others are saying yes.


Palestinian Woman Kicked in Head as Jewish Mob Debates Whether to Kill Her
Posted on October 20, 2015



Whatever else the Palestinian intifada may be accomplishing, it does seem to be driving average Israelis into a frenzy, apparently even triggering hallucinations in their heads in some cases. In the above video we see a young Palestinian woman being held to the ground while a mob debates whether or not to kill her. “Why are you playing around? They are coming to murder our children!” one of them screams at one point–while at another the young girl is kicked in the head. The incident apparently took place on October 12. Today it was reported that the young woman did not have a knife after all. The whole thing was for nothing. This of course comes just a day after Israeli forces shot to death an unarmed Eritrean man in the mistaken belief that he was a Palestinian.

See: Shoot First, Don’t Ask Questions Later

And see also my recent post: Israeli Rabbis Debate Whether to Kill Wounded Terrorists

http://richardedmondson.net/2015/10/20/ ... -kill-her/




Israel–Rabbis in Conflict Over Whether to Kill Wounded Terrorists

Source
http://www.vosizneias.com/217484/2015/1 ... orningnews

Israel – Several senior rabbis have raised a heated debate in the last few days over the approach in Jewish law toward a terrorist who has committed a terror attack but is subsequently wounded and incapacitated.

Earlier this week, prominent national-religious rabbi and chairman of the Tzohar rabbinical association, Rabbi David Stav, said that the nation was facing trying and difficult times but insisted that a terrorist who has committed an attack but has been wounded and therefore no longer represents a threat should not be further harmed.

“In these days in which the blood is boiling… it is important to preserve our moral superiority: [We must] not harm those who are not involved in murderous acts and we must not harm those who have already been neutralized and do not represent a threat,” the rabbi ruled.

Image
Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu

Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, municipal chief rabbi of Safed, reacted to Stav’s comments, and said a terrorist who had committed murder should himself be killed.

“It is forbidden to leave a murderer alive,” Eliyahu told the Galei Yisrael radio station on Wednesday. He accused Tzohar rabbis of “forgetting Jewish law” and said “they are only interested in looking good to non-Jews.”

“Jewish law is clear… there are courts which can avenge blood and there are individuals who can avenge blood. This is the Jewish law, if the court does not avenge the blood then an individual can avenge the blood,” he added.

To “avenge blood” is a concept in Jewish law relating to the punishment for murder and manslaughter.

“We can’t think all day about what others are thinking about us,” the rabbi concluded.

Image
Rabbi Ben Zion Mutzafi

Another senior rabbinical figure, prominent ultra-Orthodox arbiter of Jewish law Rabbi Ben-Tzion Mutzafi, was also fiercely critical of Stav’s approach.

According to the Srugim news website, Mutzafi was asked by his students whether, if a terrorist has been wounded and incapacitated, it is permitted according to Jewish law to kill him or not.

“It is commanded to take hold of his head and hit it against the ground until there is no longer any life in it,” Mutzafi responded.

“Do not listen to Stav, for the one who is merciful to the cruel will end up being cruel to the merciful,” he added.

Rabbi Yaakov Ariel, municipal chief rabbi of Ramat Gan and one of the most senior national-religious leaders, has also waded into the debate.

He was asked in a question on the yeshiva.org website about the differing opinions voiced by the rabbis on the issue.

Ariel backed Stav’s initial comments, replying that when the terrorist still presents a danger it is permitted to kill him.

“If the danger has passed and the terrorist is restrained or injured, [people] must act wisely, judiciously and not through spontaneous emotion,” ruled Ariel.

“In Islam, the commandment to avenge blood is a big commandment, and there is no need to add fuel to the fire. Death does not necessarily deter since the one killed becomes a ‘shahid’ [martyr]. It needs to be evaluated with security experts.”

[comments from source article]

http://www.vosizneias.com/217484/2015/1 ... orningnews


Read Comments (30) — Post Yours »

Oct 15, 2015 at 09:36 AM
Danny Says:
No need for a political answer.
Lets ask Rav Chaim Shlita.

Oct 15, 2015 at 09:37 AM
mugsisme Says:
Did they not see the video this week of the bahama who got up more than once after being shot to try and kill again? Do they not know that many terrorists released for Gilad Shalit have gone on to murder more Jews?

Oct 15, 2015 at 10:00 AM
Anonymous Says:
Habu l'hurgechu

Oct 15, 2015 at 09:49 AM
HeshyEmes Says:
As there is at least a 20% chance that the terrorist will be released in some type of exchange or after serving his sentence, there is no justification whatsoever to allow him to live. Furthermore as these are Lonewolf attacks, there is no intelligence to be had from an interrogation. No Poisek could or would disagree. And if you read between the lines; it's what Rabbi Ariel says (He said "must act wisely... Not through emotion... Consult with security experts" He doesn't say "It's forbidden"). Of course one can't publicly announce that killing an incapacitated terrorist is acceptable and even mandated; because of the pathetic and phony liberals; but the maxim of ....כל המרחם על אכזררים definitely mandates killing a terrorist.

Oct 15, 2015 at 10:13 AM
CommonSense Says:
"Only looking good for non Jews?"
As if that's a bad thing??
There are countless halachos that are based on the concept of darkei shalom.

Oct 15, 2015 at 10:33 AM
anonymous Says:
The conflict is between our Rabbis and Zionist ones. In most halachah issues we do not rule according to the Zionist shita. Their understanding of halachah can be extreme opposite of what we follow.

Oct 15, 2015 at 10:37 AM
Anonymous Says:
the only rabbi they should be seeking a psak from is Rabbi Meir Kahane, hy"d

Oct 15, 2015 at 10:27 AM
BuckyinWisconsin Says:
Kill them all. Period. Always shoot for center body mass and then double tap when they are down.

Oct 15, 2015 at 10:46 AM
czyrankevic Says:
if he is wounded dont kill let him die by himself

Oct 15, 2015 at 11:02 AM
Esther Says:
Don't wound them;make sure they're good and dead.

Oct 15, 2015 at 11:10 AM
anonymous Says:

Reply to #5
CommonSense Says:
“ "Only looking good for non Jews?"

As if that's a bad thing??
There are countless halachos that are based on the concept of darkei shalom. ”
Darkei shalom with non Jews of course but not with animals. Quite a big difference. Dangerous animals must be killed, no questions asked - and certainly not treated in the same hospitals as their victims. There are veterinary hospitals for animals and that's where wounded terrorists should be taken.
If we follow Chazal we don't go wrong. Chazal tell us, "If someone comes to kill you, get up to kill him first."
And Chazal also say "One who has mercy on the cruel, will end up being cruel to the merciful". Boy has this Chazal been proven right in Israel.

Oct 15, 2015 at 11:48 AM
anonymous Says:
“ the only rabbi they should be seeking a psak from is Rabbi Meir Kahane, hy"d ”

LOL! Double thumbs up! For posts like this we need the 'Like' option.

Oct 15, 2015 at 11:58 AM
Lawyer Says:
On the surface what R. Stav says makes sense. If someone is threatening you, you can defend yourself, even if you need to kill him. Once he is incapacitated, then you have to stop and turn him over to the authorities. That is the law in most civilized countries.
The problem is, that if you turn over terrorists to the Israeli authorities, they will get a cushy sentence and then be traded 1000 to 1 for some Israeli, like Gilad Shalit, or released as a "good will gesture" as a result of pressure from the US and other do- gooders looking to get a Nobel Peace Prize. Then they will recycle and commit more acts of terrorism.
If Israel imposed the death penalty for terrorists, then yes, turn them over. Right now that is not the case. Where the govt. refuses to meet out justice, the citizenry is forced to do so.
(BTW, the concept of goel ha dam has no application here. That applies only where someone has killed, not merely tried to kill.)

Oct 15, 2015 at 11:59 AM
Mayer Says:
Reply to #9
czyrankevic Says:

“ if he is wounded dont kill let him die by himself ”

But they don't do that. They waste fortunes of money donated by people like you and me to AMDA picking up these animals and rushing them to hospitals where they waste even more money treating them. Best thing to do is go pop pop and put them in a black garbage bag then let the municipal dog collectors take them away.

Oct 15, 2015 at 12:07 PM
Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2
mugsisme Says:
“ Did they not see the video this week of the bahama who got up more than once after being shot to try and kill again? Do they not know that many terrorists released for Gilad Shalit have gone on to murder more Jews? ”

In the instance you are referring to, the offender was still trying to carry out his attack. The debate does not discuss situations such as that, only when the offender has been effectively incapacitated.

Oct 15, 2015 at 12:11 PM
Anonymous Says:
Reply to #2
mugsisme Says:

“ Did they not see the video this week of the bahama who got up more than once after being shot to try and kill again? Do they not know that many terrorists released for Gilad Shalit have gone on to murder more Jews? ”

Even if as R Eliyahu and Mutsapi say, the terrorist should be given the death penalty, that is only through a court (Beis Din) ruling, not vigilante-style. Such methods have no place at all in the Jewish psyche.

However, only a fool (or bad shot) would merely incapacitate the terrorist. One should definitely shoot to kill - but not like the soldiers at Shechem Gate, who missed and nearly killed their comrade!

Oct 15, 2015 at 12:26 PM
Anonymous Says:
Reply to #7
Anonymous Says:

“ the only rabbi they should be seeking a psak from is Rabbi Meir Kahane, hy"d ”

You are 1000% correct! Had Yidden listened and heeded the words of the Tzaddik many Yiddishe Neshamas would not have been lost! Yidden do not make the mistake of voting for the anti-semite Hilary Clinton, if you think the Cushi is bad, she is a 1000 times worse. Donald Trump, a friend of Israel and the Jews. The only possibility to speak the what needs to be heard.

Oct 15, 2015 at 01:01 PM
yankee96 Says:
#8 knows what he is talking about and how to handle these savages
Do you want to teach Israelis how to handle it ?
I am sure there will be plenty of volunteers who will fund your trip,as soon you are ready

Oct 15, 2015 at 01:16 PM
Anominous Says:
Blind them and a blind man is like a dead man, and a burden for the rest of them, and a proof that it isn't worth it to fight us.

Oct 15, 2015 at 02:19 PM
anonymous Says:
Reply to #14
Mayer Says:

“ But they don't do that. They waste fortunes of money donated by people like you and me to AMDA picking up these animals and rushing them to hospitals where they waste even more money treating them. Best thing to do is go pop pop and put them in a black garbage bag then let the municipal dog collectors take them away. ”

Zaka indeed uses black garbage bags for terrorists. These garbage bags should be made from pig skin. Then they'd platz.

Oct 15, 2015 at 02:26 PM
favish Says:
Reply to #16
Anonymous Says:

“ Even if as R Eliyahu and Mutsapi say, the terrorist should be given the death penalty, that is only through a court (Beis Din) ruling, not vigilante-style. Such methods have no place at all in the Jewish psyche.

However, only a fool (or bad shot) would merely incapacitate the terrorist. One should definitely shoot to kill - but not like the soldiers at Shechem Gate, who missed and nearly killed their comrade! ”
did you ever hear of the concept of 'goal hadom'?

Oct 15, 2015 at 03:18 PM
MarkTwain2 Says:
Once wounded, just dress them with yarmulke and tzitzis. Duct tape over mouth with fake Charedi beard. Then drop them off in West Bank. Their brothers will "take care" of them.

Oct 15, 2015 at 05:18 PM
Anonymous Says:
How can you assume they are "no longer a threat?!" After Israel gives the terrorists medical care, and they recover, and go back out to the street to kill more Jews because we idiots let them live, then what?????

Oct 15, 2015 at 05:19 PM
Anonymous Says:
Reply to #4
HeshyEmes Says:

“ As there is at least a 20% chance that the terrorist will be released in some type of exchange or after serving his sentence, there is no justification whatsoever to allow him to live. Furthermore as these are Lonewolf attacks, there is no intelligence to be had from an interrogation. No Poisek could or would disagree. And if you read between the lines; it's what Rabbi Ariel says (He said "must act wisely... Not through emotion... Consult with security experts" He doesn't say "It's forbidden"). Of course one can't publicly announce that killing an incapacitated terrorist is acceptable and even mandated; because of the pathetic and phony liberals; but the maxim of ....כל המרחם על אכזררים definitely mandates killing a terrorist. ”

What about this new phenomenon of so called "children" killing Israelis ?! They will never serve a day in prison! They must be eliminated as soon as they make a move of terror!

Oct 15, 2015 at 05:21 PM
Anonymous Says:
Reply to #7
Anonymous Says:

“ the only rabbi they should be seeking a psak from is Rabbi Meir Kahane, hy"d ”

Amen!

Oct 15, 2015 at 05:22 PM
Anonymous Says:
Reply to #9
czyrankevic Says:

“ if he is wounded dont kill let him die by himself ”

Ignorant. You've seen too many times how these monsters get up, even after being wounded, and no doubt try killing again!

Oct 15, 2015 at 05:26 PM
Anonymous Says:
Reply to #13
Lawyer Says:

“ On the surface what R. Stav says makes sense. If someone is threatening you, you can defend yourself, even if you need to kill him. Once he is incapacitated, then you have to stop and turn him over to the authorities. That is the law in most civilized countries."

The problem is, that if you turn over terrorists to the Israeli authorities, they will get a cushy sentence and then be traded 1000 to 1 for some Israeli, like Gilad Shalit, or released as a "good will gesture" as a result of pressure from the US and other do- gooders looking to get a Nobel Peace Prize. Then they will recycle and commit more acts of terrorism. If Israel imposed the death penalty for terrorists, then yes, turn them over. Right now that is not the case. Where the govt. refuses to meet out justice, the citizenry is forced to do so. (BTW, the concept of goel ha dam has no application here. That applies only where someone has killed, not merely tried to kill.) ”
And what about these young vermin punks who have become terrorists? Do you really think Israel will make minors serve one day in jail???

Oct 15, 2015 at 05:27 PM
Anonymous Says:
Reply to #16
Anonymous Says:

“ Even if as R Eliyahu and Mutsapi say, the terrorist should be given the death penalty, that is only through a court (Beis Din) ruling, not vigilante-style. Such methods have no place at all in the Jewish psyche."

However, only a fool (or bad shot) would merely incapacitate the terrorist. One should definitely shoot to kill - but not like the soldiers at Shechem Gate, who missed and nearly killed their comrade! ”
Please,,,, hVent u seen all the videos this week of the terror attacks in which the terrorists get up after being shot and try killing again?! Shoot to kill indeed! Anything less endangers more Israeli lives!

Oct 15, 2015 at 05:29 PM
Anonymous Says:
Reply to #19
Anominous Says:

“ Blind them and a blind man is like a dead man, and a burden for the rest of them, and a proof that it isn't worth it to fight us. ”

And the blind one can't continue to shoot?

Oct 15, 2015 at 05:24 PM
Anonymous Says:
Reply to #11
anonymous Says:

“ Darkei shalom with non Jews of course but not with animals. Quite a big difference. Dangerous animals must be killed, no questions asked - and certainly not treated in the same hospitals as their victims. There are veterinary hospitals for animals and that's where wounded terrorists should be taken. If we follow Chazal we don't go wrong. Chazal tell us, "If someone comes to kill you, get up to kill him first."

And Chazal also say "One who has mercy on the cruel, will end up being cruel to the merciful". Boy has this Chazal been proven right in Israel. ”

I agree with all you said, except one thing: treating the savages at veterinary hospitals. Animals are not in the same category as these inhuman savages! Animals are kind in nature, take care of their offspring, unlike these vermin who send their bike filthy children out to kill Jews and celebrate when they're killed in the process ! Let them be tested on,y by their own brethren!



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Re: Palestine

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:22 pm

You can always tell how devout religious leaders are by how loudly they call for the death to any obstacles to achieving their peace of mind.
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Re: Palestine

Postby BrandonD » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:15 pm

Iamwhomiam » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:08 pm wrote:BrandonD wrote,
Palestinians deserve a nation, well for one because that area has been called Palestine for a long time, yet not as a shallow means to feel pride in one's self as a human being, but as the only way to stop themselves being used for target practice.


Sadly, most sadly I say, to witness such revisionist history become what it is: A falsification of factual past events.

Palestine is a country and always, always has been. Palestinians do not need a country; the so-called Israelis do. And they're taking what's left of Palestine for their own. Illegally and morbidly.

Israel was created through many acts of terrorism, which they continue to use today to expand their territory.

And I'm not anti-semetic! Wrong is wrong. If we're to believe a nation's right to self-determination is paramount, how terribly we've failed the Palestinian people and how sad we encouraged the creation of Israel, and the crimes all have committed since.


I didn't write that quote above (I believe it was Sounder), though I agree with the sentiment expressed. Just wanted to attribute it to the right person.
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Re: Palestine

Postby AlicetheKurious » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:13 pm

And I'm not anti-semetic! Wrong is wrong. If we're to believe a nation's right to self-determination is paramount, how terribly we've failed the Palestinian people and how sad we encouraged the creation of Israel, and the crimes all have committed since.


Neither is she:



Imagine, this video was made back in 2006, before "molten lead" and other massacres supported by more than 90% of Jewish Israelis, and before the massive expansion of Jewish colonies in the Occupied Palestinian lands. This was "the good old days".
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Re: Palestine

Postby Sounder » Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:04 pm

Iam wrote...
If we're to believe a nation's right to self-determination is paramount, how terribly we've failed the Palestinian people.


It seems as if we are being desensitized to the notion that nations have any right to their own determinations at all. It seems that the Palestinians are the test bed, then on to the other Arab countries, then on to Europe, then, what the hell, why not on to the US. That medicine should be real tasty.

It is quite sad to think of all the suffering caused by this (banker sponsored) subverting of nations.



Brandon D, I prefer to think of nationhood as being a stage that human communities go through rather than being arbitrary constructs.

So for instance, when Spain decided to use their new world spoils to expand their territory in Europe, the frankish and germanic and english peoples (individually) all found it expedient to unite to repel the threat.

The need to survive can produce local agreements that serve to produce a larger affiliation group. Nations still serve a (potential) protective function that the one worlders hope you do not recognize.

Destroying nations because nationalism is bad is like the war on drugs, and would end just as badly. It would also serve to empower fascists, so because I don't care for fascists I also don't care for the subverting of national self-determination.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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