Palestine

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Re: Palestine

Postby drstrangelove » Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:57 pm

yes, but which of the three is the prime mover? the reason i think about this rather than the conventional history is that the conventional history doesn't really inspire any further thought. it's just an account of what happened, not why it happened. the book of revelation was snuck into the end of the bible over 1500 years ago through the rather mundane administrative proceedings of the council of trent. but why? why do evangelicals believe returning israel to the jews will bring about the second coming of christ? even a tame view on the 1948 creation of israel must take into account an intermillennial social engineering ploy.

the problem with you academics is you always go by the book to be taken seriously. but to get the truffles sometimes you need to roll around in the mud with alex jones. the motivation behind the creation of israel in '48, whatever it may be, is not a battle over the details of its wikipedia entry.

not to sound too unhinged, but i think we need to go a little above and beyond the politics of the situation when western governments at the clear disapproval of their populations are struggling for words to put the genocide they are supporting euphemistically. it's almost a black comedy how dark it is. they have to keep making up new depravities to justify it. next week they'll be airing footage of pasolini's salo with hamas uniforms photoshopped over the flottiglia x-mas.
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These are good

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:45 pm

Anti-Semitism was definitely a factor in British support for Zionism during the Great War, as the Eton boys in charge of the ministries were largely convinced the world was ruled by a hidden Jewish superpower (talk about projection!) and that Zionism was what they wanted, so if they got it they'd win the war for Britain. One of the several small organized Zionist factions in Britain sold two ideas to their interlocutors in the imperial ministries: first, that the mythology of global Jewish power was true, and second, that Jews overwhelmingly favored Zionism. They overwhelmingly didn't, and most of the influential ones also didn't. Rather most Jews feared what consequences Zionism would have on their lives and status in Europe, and hated especially the hardcore Zionists who insisted that every Jew had to go to the homeland.

Covered here, documentary on Sykes-Picot and Balfour Declaration with a sampling of historians (French, British, American, Israeli, Palestinian).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLIBZ1Fewco


I like this channel a lot, uses exclusively historical images and footage and a good sampling of primary sources. This one has some really interesting stuff about Ottoman land ownership titles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtvqioF81BU

Also, didn't know or forgot that Faisal, that lackey, supported the declaration at Versailles (long as this "homeland" would be within the united Arab kingdom he was promised and never got from the two-forked tongue Europeans).
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More Zionismsplaining

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:26 pm

Here's another answer I gave to the question, "What does Zionism mean to you?", on a Site That Shall Not Be Named. Zionism is...

One of the many imperialist-colonialist and nationalist-exclusivist projects born of 19th century European politics. Everyone's supposed to get their own nation-state for just their own "people," speaking their own supposedly single and recently revived ancient language, worshipping their own one true god who loves and favors them above all others, educating their own children in the one true culture, singing their own war song, flying a big fat flag.

Everyone, that is, as long as they're considered sufficiently white (erm, "civilized") on a sliding scale. Especially then, when European "science" was inventing new "races" by the year.

It's generally important to adopt an origin story, some legend of a supposedly 100% true, ancient (no, *really ancient* if you can claim it) history of how the "people" originated, got a right to the territory they claim, were dispossessed by the inferior bad-enemy peoples; and how they're still the same people with a right to take that land back and make it great again, by any means, etc. The story might be anything -- Classical Athens (sole creator of Western Civilization), or how Volodomyr got baptized, or how Arminius beat the Romans, or how the Romans kicked ass and built aqueducts, or how the real Romans were actually the ones in America, etc. etc. Or, how there's this long scroll what says god chose a people, etc.

Most of these projects flopped, and then flopped some more, but a whole bunch turned into most of today's nation-states. Also, they were very infectious!

Violence comes included, genocides more or less pre-programmed.


These came in two categories; most were about convincing a people already in a country to rise up and get their independence from an empire (and define borders that excluded the rival claims, e.g., see: Eastern Europe, Balkans, etc.). Zionism was in a smaller category of a diasporic community looking for a homeland, thus settler colonial on top.

And here's a low-budget documentary from 20 years ago (Israeli, apparently) that explores the theme of anti-Semitic influences on Theodor Herzl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB7tr0MBTjA


Can't vouch for all of it, or say that diary entries are always sufficient as sources, but one of the big ironies that is established in the scholarship is that early Zionists were way secular and assimilated and envisioned a European modern liberal state (preferably Western style) of their own, a country largely freed of the old religion, clericalism, traditions, etc. The idea to an extent was that Jewish identity and being Jewish wherever one found oneself would be replaced by a national identity and allegiance to a territorial state. I guess you could call it a move from religion to ethnicity. Thus the socialist ideals and the flexibility (at first) about where the new land might be placed (Argentina was also floated).

I guess the first step away from that vision was recognition that it would never work if it weren't the Holy Land. And in a long, long historical arc through many steps, we've arrived at today's juncture: the cutting edge of Israeli settlement in the West Bank is mostly hardcore Orthodox and largely immigrating from the U.S. The leftist minority and the hipsters are leaving Israel for places like Berlin (as is some of the smart money). Secular American Jews have started to abandon support for Israel (many, not most, though most are increasingly indifferent). Here in Brooklyn, you also have the Orthodox group who are anti-Zionist...

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Palestine

Postby Grizzly » Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:09 pm

Mask's off. US and Israel are alone against the World. 190 Countries voted against them at UN vote.
https://youtu.be/jyluQkWGdLA?feature=shared
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Re: Palestine

Postby Grizzly » Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:39 pm

https://noagendasocial.com/@Nazareno/111354921022054801
Fox News talks about war like a football game
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Re: Palestine

Postby Grizzly » Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:25 am

Ex-Muslim: This is a Difficult Conversation | Sarah Haider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55x9ndmkUpA



EMERGENCY EPISODE: Bari Weiss On Israel/Palestine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V57DNSF7y7Y
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

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Re: Palestine

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:16 am

Norman Finkelstein & Eli Lake Debate - Israel Hamas Debate

@ProcyonLotor69
2 days ago
Norman was calm and polite the entire time, Eli behaved like a petulant child.

@jamalezhar4018
2 days ago
Great talk and hats of to Norman Finkelstein, a brilliant speaker who conveys his arguments calm, factual and with a great deal of reflection. His ability to feel, understand and acknowledge the oppression of the Palestinians shows a high ethical and moral compass

@rickyrojas6147
1 day ago (edited)
Eli made a complete mockery of himself. This podcast does nothing but prove the importance of education and articulating your thoughts with care. Norman once again showed out and did so with grace and empathy for his co-hosts who were clearly nowhere near his level intellectually. He's a real man of virtue and a positive force in this world. Protect Dr. Finkelstein at all costs!



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Re: Palestine

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:18 pm

Can anyone name the top 10 most powerful US politicians who are willing to criticize Israel's Palestinian genocide?

How about the top 5?

Just wondering.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/dem ... nians.aspx

In March of this year, polled Democrats said that they sympathized more with Palestine than with Israel by a 49% to 38% margin, and polled Independents said that they sympathized more with Israel than with Palestine by just a 49% to 32% margin.

Is there any political representation for this huge plurality to speak of?
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Re: Palestine

Postby Grizzly » Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:41 pm

Darfur: Women’s Bodies Are Being Used As A Tool Of War

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaoch ... ol-of-war/

BREAKING:

Jihadi militias have murdered more than 800 black Africans from the Massalit tribe in Darfur, Sudan over the past few days.

In this video, the Hamas-allied Jihadis film themselves capturing black Africans.

Any protest march planned in London?



https://noagendasocial.com/@PNS/111370395352694361

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Re: Palestine

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:28 pm

Image
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Re: Palestine

Postby Grizzly » Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:47 pm

“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
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Re: Palestine

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:31 pm

@RnaudBertrand

I don't think I've ever seen an image that best sums up how confused the West's value system is right now.

It's like trying to sum up everything liberalism champions and arriving at the most perfect illustration of the utter absurdity of it all.

Image

Image

---

Abdelrahman Badawy
@Abdul_Badawy
·
"In the name of love" while standing on the rubble of a civilian massacre.

...Wow.

https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1723 ... 73748?s=20
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Re: Palestine

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:59 pm

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Re: Palestine

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:03 pm

UNITED NATIONS CONFERENCE ON TRADE AND DEVELOPMENT -- The Economic Costs of the Israeli Occupation for the Palestinian People: The Unrealized Oil and Natural Gas Potential

Executive summary

Geologists and natural resources economists have confirmed that the Occupied Palestinian Territory lies above sizeable reservoirs of oil and natural gas wealth, in Area C of the occupied West Bank and the Mediterranean coast off the Gaza Strip. However, occupation continues to prevent Palestinians from developing their energy fields so as to exploit and benefit from such assets. As such, the Palestinian people have been denied the benefits of using this natural resource to finance socioeconomic development and meet their need for energy. The accumulated losses are estimated in the billions of dollars. The longer Israel prevents Palestinians from exploiting their own oil and natural gas reserves, the greater the opportunity costs and the greater the total costs of the occupation borne by Palestinians become.

This study identifies and assesses existing and potential Palestinian oil and natural gas reserves that could be exploited for the benefit of the Palestinian people, which Israel is either preventing them from exploiting or is exploiting without due regard for international law.

Identifying and quantifying the economic loss to the Palestinian people of being denied their natural right to develop and exploit their natural resources extends beyond oil and natural gas resources. The focus of this study, however, is confined to these two resources, in the light of their high value and their critical importance in potentially meeting basic Palestinian needs for energy and export revenues. Also critical are the new oil and natural gas finds in the Eastern Mediterranean that Israel has begun to exploit for its own benefit, while these resources may be considered shared resources, whereby the oil and natural gas exist in common pools. The use of and benefits from these resources should be governed by the same rules and norms that apply to other common resources.

The disputes and tensions involving oil and natural gas cannot be separated from the political context that surrounds them, and the fact that the period when the natural gas discoveries were made coincided with a number of important political developments in the region. The political context intersects at many crucial junctures with the oil and natural gas resource developments and thus complicates an already complex political situation. Ignoring these complexities can only rob= the analysis of many crucial determinants.

Several defining characteristics of oil and natural gas separate them from other natural resources. First, they do not follow political borders and can therefore coexist with and straddle multiple national borders. Second, they take several millions of years to accumulate underground, such that the current generations of owners are not necessarily either the only or the legitimate owners. Third, they can be stored at zero cost for decades, centuries and even millenniums. Typically, their economically optimal exploitation depends, in part, on whether the interest rate exceeds the expected price increase. Fourth, they may be part of the global commons, where efficiency and equity considerations require their unitization and common exploitation. Fifth, they are nonrenewable resources, any exploitation of which at any time reduces what is available for future generations.

The new discoveries of oil and natural gas in the Levant Basin, amounting to 122 trillion cubic feet of natural gas at a net value of $453 billion (in 2017 prices) and 1.7 billion barrels of recoverable oil at a net value of about $71 billion, offer an opportunity to distribute and share a total of about $524 billion among the different parties, in addition to the many intangible but substantive advantages of energy security and cooperation among long-time belligerents. They can also potentially be a source of additional conflict and violence if individual parties exploit these resources without due regard for the fair share of others. What could be a source of wealth and opportunities could prove disastrous if this common resource is exploited individually and exclusively, without due regard for international law and norms.

Several schemes of alternative property sharing methods are identified in this study, anchored in the historical property rights of the parties and recent agreements. The utility of these identified shares is that they are grounded in history and mutual agreement. These shares could serve as background for a negotiation framework.

The exploitation of Palestinian natural resources, including oil and natural gas, by the occupying Power imposes on the Palestinian people enormous costs that continue to escalate as the occupation remains in effect. This is not only contrary to international law, but also in violation of natural justice and moral law. To date, the real and opportunity costs of the occupation exclusively in the area of oil and natural gas have accumulated to tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars.

This study concludes by emphasizing the need for further detailed economic, historical and legal research, guided by international law, to ascertain property rights related to oil and natural gas resources. It therefore recommends detailed studies to clearly establish the Palestinian people’s right to their separate natural resources, as well as their rightful share in the common resources collectively owned by several neighbouring States in the region, including Israel.
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Re: Palestine

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:01 pm

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