Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby elfismiles » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:29 pm

Jerky » 15 Mar 2018 22:41 wrote:Jeez, Elfsmiles, this all begs the question... if knives (and cars) are really as deadly as guns... then what the heck do you need guns for? You've already got access to deadly knives (and cars)!

J.


I didn't start this thread as an argument against gun-control ... so, wutevs.

I forget which comedian I just saw video of doing a bit about 'what if some guy stabbed 100 people with a knife ... i'd be thinkin, "at least 98 of those people deserved it.' He then proceeded to imitate one of those people: "did that dude just stab that lady? he just stabbed another person. and another. and he's coming this way. uh-oh, he stabbed me. there he goes ... he's stabbing another one.' or words to that effect.

And that last report I posted was as much of interest and note for yet another instance of an alphabet agency knowing about the perp already and failing to keep him from acting. :shrug:
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby Jerky » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:16 pm

NOOOOOO!!!!! God, no. This is horrible.

This has got to be the first ever instance of an ayahuasca-related murder, surely?

Shit, that's not good. This is likely to set back entheogen use and study a decade or more.

Maybe it should? Maybe too many people - the wrong kind of people - were finding out about this stuff.

Goddamn it. What a mess.

J.
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby Jerky » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:17 pm

Just to be clear, I wasn't "challenging" you or trying to be combative.

J.

elfismiles » 16 Mar 2018 19:29 wrote:
Jerky » 15 Mar 2018 22:41 wrote:Jeez, Elfsmiles, this all begs the question... if knives (and cars) are really as deadly as guns... then what the heck do you need guns for? You've already got access to deadly knives (and cars)!

J.


I didn't start this thread as an argument against gun-control ... so, wutevs.

I forget which comedian I just saw video of doing a bit about 'what if some guy stabbed 100 people with a knife ... i'd be thinkin, "at least 98 of those people deserved it.' He then proceeded to imitate one of those people: "did that dude just stab that lady? he just stabbed another person. and another. and he's coming this way. uh-oh, he stabbed me. there he goes ... he's stabbing another one.' or words to that effect.

And that last report I posted was as much of interest and note for yet another instance of an alphabet agency knowing about the perp already and failing to keep him from acting. :shrug:
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby Jerky » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:59 pm

Was the news report moved to another forum?

Jerky » 16 Mar 2018 21:16 wrote:NOOOOOO!!!!! God, no. This is horrible.

This has got to be the first ever instance of an ayahuasca-related murder, surely?

Shit, that's not good. This is likely to set back entheogen use and study a decade or more.

Maybe it should? Maybe too many people - the wrong kind of people - were finding out about this stuff.

Goddamn it. What a mess.

J.
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby 82_28 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:38 am

Note: THIS WILL NOT WORK AND WOULD ONLY CREATE CURIOSITY.

That said. If we are to live in society where gun laws are essentially non existent, then the same amount of time, money and effort must be spent on inculcating a more healthy revulsion of guns, weapons, fear. Not a fear of. But a revulsion of and for ever having a situation get so bad where one would need a weapon.

It would create a population of "pussies" some might say. It would be summarily destroyed no matter how much sense it might fundamentally make.

Too many moving parts and it makes my head hurt trying conceive of getting everyone everywhere to adopt such a sensible yet unfathomably utopian idea.
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby DrEvil » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:41 am

^^Too many insecure assholes who feel powerful holding a gun, plus a common mindset that gives us gems like this, from the article elfismiles posted on the previous page:

“has spoken about inappropriate places to bomb”


It could be done though, but it would take a herculean effort and probably decades of dedicated work to change things. Most western countries already have that attitude you describe.
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby 82_28 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:15 am

DrEvil » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:41 am wrote:^^Too many insecure assholes who feel powerful holding a gun, plus a common mindset that gives us gems like this, from the article elfismiles posted on the previous page:

“has spoken about inappropriate places to bomb”


It could be done though, but it would take a herculean effort and probably decades of dedicated work to change things. Most western countries already have that attitude you describe.


Indeed! This idea is borne out of my feelings about guns in high school. WE HAD (just two or so miles away from Columbine mind you about 3 years before it happened a class called like "Criminal and Victim Law" or something). The first part of the class was hearing from people who would visit the class every once in awhile who were the released people who had inflicted the violence on someone innocent. They would speak about what they did, why they did it and about their time in prison. Then, nearing the end of the semester, nearing summer break, they brought in the victims of like crimes.

A woman came in and told her story of being assaulted in her home and was shot with a "firearm", she spoke of her fear. She spoke of how it felt to be shot. The heat and the fear. It sent me over the "edge" so to speak. It certainly seemed like back then she was making a case against guns and not just crime in general. So I was weepy the rest of the day. I wound up going home and sobbing to my dad about how fucking cruel the world is. Blah blah.

Anyhow, I had this friend who had this brother who was hella into guns around this time as well. One time his brother was out somewhere and he asked me if I wanted to check out his brother's 357 Magnum. So we did. He said "hold it". I couldn't. Total revulsion.

I look at guns and subsequent gun control like this: If you sneak beer into a concert or game or something and it gets found it gets confiscated. Attrition is the only way it will work. See it, report it, don't make it a legal offense. It is just confiscated and tossed out and destroyed as virtually all guns should be. Give them a free paintball gun voucher so they can have fun playing war safely. One by one.

But revulsion to guns and violence can indeed be demonstrated with good teachers and curriculum while also keeping these dumbass 2nd amendment fucks appeased with realistic laws.
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:22 pm

.

I see. 82_28 is revolted by guns, ergo EVERYONE must be conditioned to feel the same, is that it?

You needn't worry -- a method has already been implemented for precisely this intent.

Behold:

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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby 82_28 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:15 pm

Oh I dunno, BS. How about just for starters. . .

YOU'RE KIDDING! NRA pushes guns on kids as young as Newtown victims in sick 'Youth Day'

Bill Hutchinson
Daniel Beekman
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Sunday, May 5, 2013, 10:37 PM

The National Rifle Association capped its annual convention Sunday by hosting a “Youth Day” — enticing youngsters to attend by offering free six-month memberships.

Billed by the NRA as a family-fun outing, the event drew hundreds of kids. Some of the attendees were the age of the Newtown massacre victims, others too young to know the difference between a toy gun and a real one.

“Spend the day exploring 400,000 square feet of exhibit hall containing over 550 exhibitors from across the country. Share the excitement with spectacular displays and fun-filled events for the entire family,” the NRA wrote on its website.

The event was staged a day after the NRA welcomed its youngest lifetime member, 3-year-old Elaih Wagan, whose grandfather purchased the membership.

Activities inside Houston’s George R. Brown Convention Center prompted outrage outside.

“They shouldn’t be teaching kids how to use guns. What happens when they get older? They might become like that Connecticut killer,” said Cal Castille, 24, of Houston, referring to Newtown gunman Adam Lanza.

Anti-gun protesters, reading names of gun-violence victims across the street from the convention center, said the NRA event was akin to “brainwashing these kids to love guns.”

“This is indoctrination,” said Jose Sequeiros, 67, of Houston. “These kids are too young to see that guns are wrong.”

“It agitates me that these people don’t think it could happen to their children,” said Ross of Austin. “This is just beyond words.”

In the convention center, pint-sized gun enthusiasts, some taught about the Second Amendment before they learned to read, perused the latest makes and models of firearms.

“I like guns because guns are fun,” said 9-year-old Kaykay Mace, who attended the NRA Youth Day with her dad, Scott, and big sister, Calla, 11.

Scott Mace, 37, called the event “a fun thing to do.”

“If a child understands how to properly and safely shoot, then they become much safer,” he said. “In a bad situation, they will understand what needs to be done.”

Calla Mace said she enjoys going to gun ranges and bragged, “I’m a pretty good shot.”

“I’ve shot a .22 rifle before and a handgun,” Calla said.

The convention floor was packed with little girls and boys with guns in their hands.

One blond girl in camouflage tights and pink skirt, who appeared to be about 7, gripped an air pistol as an instructor gave her tips on her aim.

Another young girl, with help from an adult, practiced aiming a rifle nearly as tall as she was. It was only an air gun that shoots pellets, but was made to look like an menacing AR-15 assault rifle — similar to one used by Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook.

Trent Mattison, 51, of Beaumont, Tex., watched proudly as his 5-year-old son, Cooper, practiced shooting at the air-soft rifle range.

“I like it because I like the smell of gunsmoke,” said Cooper. . .

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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1335901

Yeah. Pretty much the exact opposite of that.
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:32 pm

.

Utter hyperbole.

So attending an event like this = likely future serial killer?

Bad satire.

Again, hacking at branches.

(Though in the case of the above rag article, it's an attempt to incite strong sentiment, polarizing -- and further entrenching -- viewpoints at the far ends of the spectrum... while also keeping their circulation. Hyperbole sells!)
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby Elvis » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:28 am

Guns are primitve technology.

Improvised firearm
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An improvised firearm (sometimes called a zip gun) is a firearm manufactured other than by a firearms manufacturer or a gunsmith, and is typically constructed by adapting existing materials to the purpose. They range in quality from crude weapons that are as much a danger to the user as the target to high-quality arms produced by cottage industries using salvaged and repurposed materials.[1][2][3]

Improvised firearms are commonly used as tools by criminals and insurgents and are often associated with such groups;[4][5] other uses include self-defense in lawless areas and hunting game in poor rural areas.[6]


Construction

The essential part of any improvised firearm is the barrel and chamber. For small, low-pressure cartridges, like the common .22 caliber (5.5 mm) rimfire cartridges, even very thin-walled tubing works. Author Harlan Ellison describes the zip guns gangs used in 1950s New York City as being made from tubing used in coffee percolators or automobile radio antennas, strapped to a block of wood for a handle. A rubber band powered the firing pin, which the shooter pulls back and releases to fire. Such weak tubing results in a firearm that can be as dangerous to the shooter as the target; the poorly fitting smoothbore barrel provides little accuracy and is liable to burst upon firing.[1]


Improvisation with other items

More advanced improvised guns can use parts from other gun-like products. One example is the cap gun. A cap gun can be disassembled, and a barrel added, turning the toy gun into a real one. A firing pin can then be added to the hammer, to concentrate the force onto the primer of the cartridge. If the cap gun has a strong enough hammer spring, the existing trigger mechanism can be used as-is; otherwise, rubber bands may be added to increase the power of the hammer.[7]

Air guns have also been modified to convert them to firearms. The Brocock Air Cartridge System, for example, uses a self-contained "cartridge" roughly the size of a .38 Special cartridge, which contains an air reservoir, valve, and a .22 caliber (5.5 mm) pellet. Examples of BACS airguns converted to firearms, either by drilling the barrel out to fire a .38 Special cartridge or by altering the cylinder to accept .22 caliber cartridges, have been used in a number of crimes. Blank-firing guns can also be converted by adding a barrel, although the low-quality alloys used for cheaper blank-firing guns may break with the pressures and stresses of a real bullet being fired.[8]
Cryptic firearms

Some more complex improvised firearms are not only well-built, but also use mimicry as camouflage, taking the appearance of other items. Improvised firearms in the form of flashlights, cellular telephones, pens, and large bolts, have all been seized by law enforcement officials.[citation needed] Most of these are .22 caliber rimfires, but flashlight guns have been found ranging from small models firing .22 Long Rifle to larger ones chambered for .410 bore shotgun shells.[9][10]


Repeating and automatic designs

While most improvised firearms are single-shot, multiple-shot versions are also encountered. The simplest multi-shot zip guns are derringer-like, and consist of a number of single-shot zip guns attached together. The Pepper-box design is also used in home made guns because it is relatively easy to make out of a bundle of pipes or a steel cylinder. In late 2000, British police encountered a four-shot .22 LR zip gun disguised as a mobile phone, where different keys on the keypad fire different barrels. Because of this discovery, mobile phones are now X-rayed by airport screeners worldwide. Authorities believe they were manufactured in Croatia, and they still turned up in Europe as late as 2004, according to a report by Time magazine.[11][12]

Improvised submachine guns are often made by copying existing designs, or by adapting simple, open-bolt actions and leveraging commonly available hardware store parts.[2][13]


Shotguns

A homemade shotgun or tumbera (Argentina), bakakuk[14] (Malaysia), or sumpak[15] (Philippines) is a firearm made of improvised materials like nails, steel pipes, wooden pieces, bits of string, etc.


Repurposed firearms

In cases where some firearms are available, they can be improvised into different types. One such improvised, repurposed firearm is described by Che Guevara in his book Guerrilla Warfare. Called the "M-16", it consists of a 16-gauge sawed-off shotgun provided with a bipod to hold the barrel at a 45-degree angle. This was loaded with a blank cartridge (formed by removing the shot from a standard shotshell), followed by a wooden rod with a Molotov cocktail attached to the front. This formed an improvised mortar capable of firing the incendiary device accurately out to a range of 100 meters.[16]

Flare guns have also been converted to firearms. This may be accomplished by replacing the (often plastic) barrel of the flare gun with a metal pipe strong enough to chamber a shotgun shell, or by inserting a smaller-bore barrel into the existing barrel (such as with a caliber conversion sleeve) to chamber a firearm cartridge, such as a .22 Long Rifle.[17][18]


3D printers
Main article: 3D printed firearms

In 2013, several operable weapons were made with 3D printers, including ones made of plastic on inexpensive 3D printers,[19] and ones made of more durable metal, using industrial 3d printers.[20]
...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm


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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby 82_28 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:04 am

Belligerent Savant wrote:.

Utter hyperbole.

So attending an event like this = likely future serial killer?

Bad satire.

Again, hacking at branches.

(Though in the case of the above rag article, it's an attempt to incite strong sentiment, polarizing -- and further entrenching -- viewpoints at the far ends of the spectrum... while also keeping their circulation. Hyperbole sells!)


So. You're saying that no matter how much of a trash rag NY Magazine is, the story itself does not comport to what an NRA youth event would entail? How much of the hyperbole used in the one of countless other articles, stories, experiences, pro and con one could find focus on the entraining of youth about what happens on the other end of the ever so enjoyable gun? You shoot it. Why? Why is having something so deadly so important and to feel otherwise is stupid?

I have never understood if what you want a gun for is primarily, supposedly, self defense and second because they are fun to shoot. What the fuck does that even mean? You just buy a gun to shoot it at a range and then take it home to collect dust? Or do you worship it, no matter how seldom you go out to the range? Oiling it. Taking it apart. Admiring the tube the bullet begins its journey unto death. Seriously, what is the point? They are fingertip fantasies waiting to happen. So, as I said, equal time should be spent showing the glorious, exciting, power of the gun as advertised and also the horrible revulsion some may have because so many venerate something so deadly due to the dwindling efforts of empathy which is not advertised until you're dead.

The worship of guns and this second amendment of ours spiked with an unfortunate but very real right wing desire to eliminate all who are not like them has absolutely no bearing on what may come from the future of lax education, fealty to an infallible authority and a glorified image of violence depending on who is inflicting it. This track we're on is perfectly normal.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:17 pm

.
First, let's be clear: that article you posted is not from "NY Magazine", it is from the NY Daily News. It's the local tabloid. Sensationalist and largely low-brow, though it certainly is capable of entertaining and "informing" a certain demographic. I say this as a long-time resident of the area.

(My earlier 'hyporbole' response to the article is primarily due to the associations made between an NRA event and a school shooting ---- classy. See comment above Re: tabloid.)

Now, with respect to your other comments/sentiment: it's not for you or I to judge/critique the reasons a segment of the population enjoy or choose to purchase guns. I'm no arbiter of what another human should identify as their hobby (so long as it falls within the confines of legality) -- none of us are.

(Actually, on edit: we can judge or critique whatever we'd like, as many of us do here regularly in this message board; however, to expect others to do as I/you prefer -- or to have their preferences/predilections taken away from them because they don't align with your/my 'value system' -- is another matter entirely)

This is apart from the NRA itself: a powerful organization that, like other powerful organizations, employs cynical and/or strategic tactics to expand their base. There's far more one can say about the NRA, but that's not my focus. The focus at the moment is my interpretation of your message, which essentially sounds like:

"I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY SOMEONE WOULD LIKE OR CHOOSE TO OWN GUNS, THEREFORE, NO ONE SHOULD OWN OR USE THEM."

Is that the gist of it? By all means, offer up your own distillation of your thoughts on this if I'm misrepresenting them.

Many Americans in this country -- a sizable segment of the population -- collect and/or purchase guns, going back generations. Family members pass them down to their children, grandchildren, etc. It's part of their culture, their way of life. As part of this culture, they also showcase and demonstrate the inherent responsibilities that go along with gun ownership. They are overwhelmingly law-abiding.

Far be it from you or me to cut into these traditions and say, "Nah... I don't get it. Don't understand it. You'll need to get rid of them."
There is a problem with this line of reasoning; such mindsets only INCREASE the cultural divide between us, and in turn, only ENHANCES the probability that another "populist" may rise up (assuming Trump is taken down in the near-term).

I'm generalizing, of course: there are myriad reasons (socio-economic, etc.) for our current predicament, but this discussion drives at one of the core mindsets driving current discord.

Also: where would you draw the line in this rationale? Would bow-and-arrow enthusiasts also fall within the same category as gun owners, in your eyes? How about those that enjoy collecting knives? Yay/Nay? OR those that choose to learn the martial arts, using their arms/legs/fists as potential weapons for self-defense? Is that to be drastically curtailed as well?

Sure, the NRA is a vile organization capitalizing on this interest. As with most organizations with powerful govt lobbyists, they are part of a larger psychosis/pathology that glorifies violence for profit/power, to the detriment of otherwise average Americans increasingly struggling to sustain a semblance of normalcy in their lives.

Guns, in and of themselves, and gun ownership among citizens, is not the problem, whether we agree with those that choose to own guns or not.

Gun Laws have increased exponentially in the last 20 years, YET so have incidents of mass shootings.
Usage of psychotropic and/or anti-depressant drugs among American youth have also increased dramatically in the same timespan.
SUPPORT SYSTEMS for troubled youth: DECREASING over the same timespan.
VIOLENCE depicted in TV, Movies, Video Games: INCREASING.
(Let's also add ILLEGAL Gun purchasing and arms dealing, explicitly for the purpose of inflicting harm -- an issue wholly unrelated to lawful gun ownership, and most often including elements far beyond the reach of the average American)

So we have all the above factors stewing in the pot, and that's WITHOUT factoring in intel ops and other sinister mindfuckery implemented across the U.S. population with increased frequency, particularly since 9 1 1.

In short, there are numerous forces at work here. The average gun owner shouldn't even register more than a slight BLIP in the "concern meter".
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:17 pm

I'd appreciate our mods moving the several recent gun control discussion comments to the Guns (Yawn) thread and to request all to remain on topic in SMiles slice 'em and dice 'em thread.

I want to paste a few comments in the Guns thread and respond to them, but I believe such cross-posting would be a violation of the rules for me to do it. I'd rather not further the disruption of this thread by replying here.
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Re: Amok Over The Edge(d)-Weapon Violence Sprees

Postby Jerky » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:34 pm

Belligerent Savant » 18 Mar 2018 22:17 wrote:.
Now, with respect to your other comments/sentiment: it's not for you or I to judge/critique the reasons a segment of the population enjoy or choose to purchase guns. I'm no arbiter of what another human should identify as their hobby (so long as it falls within the confines of legality) -- none of us are.


Surely "what falls within the confines of legality" is what is at question here, BS?

Also, it certainly IS "for you or I to judge/critique the reasons a segment of the population enjoy or choose to purchase" anything at all, really, be it America's increasingly deadly gun fetishism, a fondness for heroin or, say, child pornography.

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