To Change Everything...

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby kool maudit » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:41 am

I was commenting specifically on the thoughts expressed in the "borders" section of that article.
kool maudit
 
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby American Dream » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:43 am

Which are not endorsing Liberalism nor Statism.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby Luther Blissett » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:51 am

Yeah I thought you were voicing appreciation for the ideas expressed within, as anti-imperialist, anti-statist stance.
The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
User avatar
Luther Blissett
 
Posts: 4990
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby American Dream » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:59 am

And perhaps I'm grossly misunderstanding- which is why I'm checking- because I had always read KM's comments as reflecting a mind that is deeply versed in left thought.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:20 am

Luther Blissett » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:05 pm wrote:There's probably something to that condition space travelers experience when they first see our delicate, fragile planet without borders from afar.




Perfectly said .
This does not need to be "critiqued" or have "critical thought" applied and it has nothing to do with the "No Borders" of the neo-liberal globalist apologia Ctrl CV-ed here.
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby coffin_dodger » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:18 pm

from OP, 2nd para
Our enemies are not human beings, but the institutions and routines that estrange us from each other and from ourselves


Somehow, somewhere along the line, the fact that 'institutions and routines' are human-driven entities seems to have been forgotten, to be replaced with a forlorn 'there is no one accountable' mentality - I wonder how that happened?

Similar to the recent law giving the senior management of corporations absolution from any crimes they commit in the name of the company.
User avatar
coffin_dodger
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (14)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby kool maudit » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:10 pm

My contention is that anti-imperialist "open borders" sentiment has become a tool exploited by globalist imperial actors. But my comment was offhand, really, and related to an initial reading of the passage.
kool maudit
 
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby Sounder » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:54 pm

My contention is that anti-imperialist "open borders" sentiment has become a tool exploited by globalist imperial actors.


I agree and thank-you kool maudit. Surely these possibilities can be presented and discussed at a place such as R.I.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
Sounder
 
Posts: 4054
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby American Dream » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:47 pm

Are "globalists" the same as the Bourgeoisie?

Isn't a position critical of Capital, the State, Authoritarianism, White Supremacy, Male Dominance and all that shit still legit, even if neo-Liberalism has a proven capacity to co-opt such liberatory impulses?
Last edited by American Dream on Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby Sounder » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:48 pm

from OP, 2nd para

Our enemies are not human beings, but the institutions and routines that estrange us from each other and from ourselves




Somehow, somewhere along the line, the fact that 'institutions and routines' are human-driven entities seems to have been forgotten, to be replaced with a forlorn 'there is no one accountable' mentality - I wonder how that happened?

Similar to the recent law giving the senior management of corporations absolution from any crimes they commit in the name of the company.


Thanks for putting a critical eye to the article dodger, I admit to being too weak to afflict myself with AD material. However 'changing everything' does happen to be a subject dear to my heart and your picking out of the enemies line is appropriate.

Fear of the other is produced in spades by a split-model of reality. Indeed, this model is about objects with hard boundary conditions, an artifact of the system that makes analysis more convenient.

The real hip and rad trip is to look at everything as subjects and ignore the objects. No boundaries, only connections!

The simple truth is that society contains people of multiple types of mentalities and prescriptive solutions inherently allow one style to crowd out the other styles, leading to social malfunction.

My criterion for judging material is fairly simple; because the dominant narrative is built around the split-model and fear of the other, material that plays on those fears is probably facilitated by the system.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
Sounder
 
Posts: 4054
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby Grizzly » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:52 am

“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
User avatar
Grizzly
 
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby Freitag » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:37 am

Luther Blissett » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:05 am wrote:There's probably something to that condition space travelers experience when they first see our delicate, fragile planet without borders from afar.


Image
User avatar
Freitag
 
Posts: 615
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby kool maudit » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:27 am

American Dream » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:47 pm wrote:Are "globalists" the same as the Bourgeoisie?

Isn't a position critical of Capital, the State, Authoritarianism, White Supremacy, Male Dominance and all that shit still legit, even if neo-Liberalism has a proven capacity to co-opt such liberatory impulses?



Globalism is a propositional system that, whatever its positions on the above issues, has a notable democratic deficit. I do not cheer even progressive-sounding initiatives from actors such as the EU, UN, OSCE, IMF etc when I suspect they are being carried out without any sort of popular mandate.
kool maudit
 
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:55 am

Sounder:
My criterion for judging material is fairly simple; because the dominant narrative is built around the split-model and fear of the other, material that plays on those fears is probably facilitated by the system.


Absolutely.

I view it as a see-saw. It can be applied right across the spectrum of political discourse.

The System encourages those that are interested in change to be one or the other - left or right, at varying degrees - causing the see-saw to continually rock up and down at both ends, resulting in friction and continual disunity between the two opposing sides.

At the extreme of both ends of the see-saw, we encounter groups like Fascists and Anti-fascists. Both are extremes. The hatred exhibited by anti-fascists for fascists is as poisonous as the counterbalance.

Meanwhile, The System sits at the fulcrum of the see-saw, unmoving and perfectly centred, able to stir both sides of the aisle with clarity and ease.

P.S.
Thanks for putting a critical eye to the article dodger


I have to admit the 2nd para was as far as I could stomach :rofl2
User avatar
coffin_dodger
 
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:05 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (14)

Re: To Change Everything...

Postby American Dream » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:47 am

kool maudit » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:27 am wrote:
American Dream » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:47 pm wrote:Are "globalists" the same as the Bourgeoisie?

Isn't a position critical of Capital, the State, Authoritarianism, White Supremacy, Male Dominance and all that shit still legit, even if neo-Liberalism has a proven capacity to co-opt such liberatory impulses?



Globalism is a propositional system that, whatever its positions on the above issues, has a notable democratic deficit. I do not cheer even progressive-sounding initiatives from actors such as the EU, UN, OSCE, IMF etc when I suspect they are being carried out without any sort of popular mandate.



The term "Globalists" is generally used used to blur the reality of the owning class and its top level executives with a totalizing view of world history slanted towards a search for the ultimate smoky room.

While there does seem to be a fairly broad agreement about "free trade" amongst this class as well as a willingness to co-opt themes about liberal notions of tolerance and opportunity, their are surely also different interests and different agenda amongst that class, no?. Efforts to reduce the dynamics to the search for a cartoonish set of "bad guys", be they "the Jews", the Freemasons, Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergs, alien reptilian masters etc., are doomed to fail.

Conspiracies are happening all the time, but mostly the capitalists are pretty open about what they intend to do. When neo-liberalism came to power, as signaled by the elections of Thatcher and Reagan, there was a very open banging of the drum for deregulation and financialization of the economy, attacks on the the welfare state and organized labor, and privatization generally. Neo- Liberalism then went ahead and accomplished just that.

When one tries to wrap up everything into one neat package of bad individuals and then tie it up with a neat bow on top, they are at serious risk of chasing phantoms, if not being caught up with far right/crypto-fascist agenda which claims to be somehow being "beyond" or "above" earthly political parameters, although it is not.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests