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Luther Blissett » Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:47 pm wrote:The small wins (and my evidence for "enlightenment") are most readily seen in the ways in which the younger generations differ from ours in terms of progressivism. Greater numbers of interpersonal relationships that cut across cultural barriers more than ever before, abandonment of organized religions, greater class consciousness in their realization that their generation can no longer do better than their parents', declining proportion of the population participating in the armed forces, greater environmental consciousness, etc. Social engineering fights against those factors and others.
I mean you could be totally right about trans rights being a trojan horse for transhumanism and that my support for trans people needs to be tempered a little bit so that it's a little more nuanced, but how far back to we take it?
zangtang » Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:44 pm wrote:what trans problem ?
brainpanhandler » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:07 am wrote:I didn't want to be bothered with explaining why AOC's post was a shitty thing to do. I try not to waste my time here with trolls and/or trollish behavior.
We hear a lot about the Black Lives Matter movement, which is at least tangentially similar. In the first half of this year, only 24 unarmed black men were killed by police. Statistically small, but very important. What's that poison pill?
I don't think trans rights or black lives matter represent trojan horses. They're just problems that a very slowly enlightening society wants to / has the capability / wherewithal / maturity to address.
The question about implants and devices for disabled people wasn't really rhetorical. If I was an oligarch I would be all over that. It's the perfect story.
I actually don't subscribe to that kind of view of things much at all. Ever since I started digging deeply into these kinds of issues and being around more and more people who don't conform to gender norms, I've become increasingly disenchanted with the binary model. Of course I know that most of the people in the (North American) mainstream do, but it doesn't gain so much traction for me, personally.
The biggest reason why people would conform in looks to a binary: so that the many, many haters out there don't hurt or kill them. Beyond the murder and all that physical violence are lots and lots of other forms of violence that will be done to people who don't conform. Please let's not forget that- this is a huge factor.
Also, I think there is a very important generational factor in all this- every young feminist I know is definitively and strongly supportive of trans liberation. That is an integral part of their feminism, in fact. Older feminists, it's more complicated- many are trying to get up to speed, even though it's an effort, a smaller number are hostile.
Mostly though- and this is an important point- the people I know who don't conform to those norms, were/are the militant feminists taking Women's Studies classes, including theorists like Julia Serano. It's really not a big deal in my world.
According to a freedom of information response obtained by the Guardian, the number of children referred to the Tavistock has jumped from 314 referrals in 2012-13 to 697 referrals in 2014-15. In the last six months the service has seen a further increase in referrals with 634 children referred between April and September.
Many of the referrals – 151 from 2012-13 to 2014-15 – relate to children under the age of 10, including one three-year-old and 12 four-year-olds.
Activists can be concerned with more than one issue at once.
yathrib » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:35 pm wrote:I actually don't subscribe to that kind of view of things much at all. Ever since I started digging deeply into these kinds of issues and being around more and more people who don't conform to gender norms, I've become increasingly disenchanted with the binary model. Of course I know that most of the people in the (North American) mainstream do, but it doesn't gain so much traction for me, personally.
Great. But when someone like Jenner claims to be a woman (for example) that is obviously not their view. And the "girl brain in boy body" model is the dominant one in most of the propaganda presented in the media and for public consumption, yes?
Also, I think there is a very important generational factor in all this- every young feminist I know is definitively and strongly supportive of trans liberation. That is an integral part of their feminism, in fact. Older feminists, it's more complicated- many are trying to get up to speed, even though it's an effort, a smaller number are hostile.
Mostly though- and this is an important point- the people I know who don't conform to those norms, were/are the militant feminists taking Women's Studies classes, including theorists like Julia Serano. It's really not a big deal in my world.
Okay.... But doesn't this illustrate the point some are making that trans issues are highjacking and superceding feminist issues? With so many issues affecting women, is this really worthy of the energy expended?
I highly doubt any of them would claim that the struggle against White Supremacy and/or the Class Struggle were somehow separate from the "many issues affecting women", either.
Sounder » 25 Nov 2015 01:10 wrote:
This system is robust because it provides a place for anyone that is obsessed with enemies a forum to act out their pathologies. The system is about coercion and so are many facets of activism, making for an ideal not system supporting, system supporting system.
Neat trick, huh?
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