Which gender are you?

[tapitsbo]

Wow, seems like gender identity issues are a bit of spooky action at a distance even for many otherwise sophisticated parapolitical renegades!

I have to admit that gender bending can make me uncomfortable sometimes, but I wouldn't have gone down the rabbit hole in the first place if I thought it was a good idea to trust your first and "most natural" ie. most comfortable impulses.

Shutting up about sexuality? Yeah, that's always led to beautiful things... Yeah, it could be globalist elites aiming to break up the family and drive their transhumanist agenda or it could be sexuality is one of the most primordial, sensitive, innermost parts of us and even when we're sure that nothing is as we were taught by our parents and in our school and that there's a global deep state nexus running the show, we're most afraid that if we go poking around THERE we may just... implode, break apart, shatter, lose ourselves.

I for one would not endorse shutting up about sexuality. But the contemporary progressive discourse on these issues seems to be forcing a lot of people to do just that, despite its supposed amplitude of diversity.

There's definitely a silencing effect and I think posters like Project Willow, guruilla, and slomo are getting at something real

[brainpanhandler]

Is the poll just curiosity or are you working on a specific idea?

Mostly just curiosity. My impression over the years is that it is generally believed that this is a predominately male board, but I was hoping to get some sort of rough confirmation, however unreliable and sketch it might be.

A few ideas are percolating based on the results so far, but there are so many variables, some of them unknowable, that it's difficult to even conjecture much of anything just yet. Unlike you and 82-28 and others I have never met any of the members here in the flesh.

[backtoiam]

"I for one would not endorse shutting up about sexuality. But the contemporary progressive discourse on these issues seems to be forcing a lot of people to do just that, despite its supposed amplitude of diversity.

There's definitely a silencing effect and I think posters like Project Willow, guruilla, and slomo are getting at something real"


I agree and it is a damn shame that the issue is used and abused as much as it is, and can rarely be discussed without hysterics and hand waving.

Slomo, as usual, was Robin Hood on the target with an important aspect.

[DrEvil]

Add these "modern gender constructs" to the push for universal confusion, to the current surreal, ambiguous, convoluted, morally relative, reality-challenged enveloping atmosphere that pretends to be freedom-loving in America today. I'm sure transgendered people, hermaphrodites (very rare), etc. have existed since the very beginning of time, however, they are an infinitesimally small minority and I doubt that's changed, yet social engineers, the deviant elite are pushing this meme to the extreme. They're using the transgender population to push their "gender neutral" agenda. Why?

Who are the "deviant elite", and why are they deviant? Because they don't support the traditional man/woman paradigm?

It's certainly not because of their compassion/empathy for this tiny minority, although that's what they want you to believe. No, they're pushing this meme down our throats because it serves their overall agenda. Off the top of my head, I can think of a couple of reasons:

One, it gives the illusion of freedom. If we can choose from these modern gender constructs, we must be free, right?

Yes. Free to choose the gender you feel most comfortable with.

Two, it further obfuscates by denying certain immutable truths, and heightens the ambiguous, and convoluted Orwellian narrative that they're trying to create..."war is peace", "freedom is slavery", "males are females", "females are males"...

What are these "immutable truths"?

Three, by undermining gender as a defining determinant of human identity, they're undermining personal identity, because identity is inextricably linked to gender. (Males cannot give birth, cannot breast feed, etc...their biological nature is not as conducive to nurture as a female's a nature. That's a biological fact. Are we supposed to ignore it? In my humble opinion, the feminist movement does, indeed, ignore it. Because the only kind of women valued today are ones who act like traditional males. Mothers are the least valued members of society...highest stats for poverty, etc. In other words, overall, traditional male traits are still highly valued whether in a male or a female, while traditional female traits are not valued)

Bollocks. It's undermining the patriarchy, which is a good thing.

Four, it supports the superficial materialistic consumer mentality...everything can be solved with money to purchase whatever it is that will solve your problem.

Why? Because it costs money to change gender?

Five, it's a great way to push transhumanism

Again - why? Why is it transhumanist to not subscribe to the traditional gender roles? Is it transhumanist to support gay rights too?

It's a mind-fuck. That's all I'm saying. They're trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

"In a time of universal confusion, stating the obvious is a revolutionary act."

And again - why is it a mindfuck that people are free to chose the gender they feel most comfortable with? Would you prefer we go back to the good old "Christian morality uber alles" days when homosexuality was illegal and transgendered people got beaten up/killed even more than they are today?

[82_28]

I was a "fag" in HS with my skater friends because I was really into The Smiths and Morrissey. Still am.



Whatever. Everything can be overcome through friends. Unless they die from an overdose or murder. I've lost too many old friends. Just no judgement or definitions. Fuck it all. We're all here!

[tapitsbo]

Add these "modern gender constructs" to the push for universal confusion, to the current surreal, ambiguous, convoluted, morally relative, reality-challenged enveloping atmosphere that pretends to be freedom-loving in America today. I'm sure transgendered people, hermaphrodites (very rare), etc. have existed since the very beginning of time, however, they are an infinitesimally small minority and I doubt that's changed, yet social engineers, the deviant elite are pushing this meme to the extreme. They're using the transgender population to push their "gender neutral" agenda. Why?

Who are the "deviant elite", and why are they deviant? Because they don't support the traditional man/woman paradigm?

It's certainly not because of their compassion/empathy for this tiny minority, although that's what they want you to believe. No, they're pushing this meme down our throats because it serves their overall agenda. Off the top of my head, I can think of a couple of reasons:

One, it gives the illusion of freedom. If we can choose from these modern gender constructs, we must be free, right?

Yes. Free to choose the gender you feel most comfortable with.

Two, it further obfuscates by denying certain immutable truths, and heightens the ambiguous, and convoluted Orwellian narrative that they're trying to create..."war is peace", "freedom is slavery", "males are females", "females are males"...

What are these "immutable truths"?

Three, by undermining gender as a defining determinant of human identity, they're undermining personal identity, because identity is inextricably linked to gender. (Males cannot give birth, cannot breast feed, etc...their biological nature is not as conducive to nurture as a female's a nature. That's a biological fact. Are we supposed to ignore it? In my humble opinion, the feminist movement does, indeed, ignore it. Because the only kind of women valued today are ones who act like traditional males. Mothers are the least valued members of society...highest stats for poverty, etc. In other words, overall, traditional male traits are still highly valued whether in a male or a female, while traditional female traits are not valued)

Bollocks. It's undermining the patriarchy, which is a good thing.

Four, it supports the superficial materialistic consumer mentality...everything can be solved with money to purchase whatever it is that will solve your problem.

Why? Because it costs money to change gender?

Five, it's a great way to push transhumanism

Again - why? Why is it transhumanist to not subscribe to the traditional gender roles? Is it transhumanist to support gay rights too?

It's a mind-fuck. That's all I'm saying. They're trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

"In a time of universal confusion, stating the obvious is a revolutionary act."

And again - why is it a mindfuck that people are free to chose the gender they feel most comfortable with? Would you prefer we go back to the good old "Christian morality uber alles" days when homosexuality was illegal and transgendered people got beaten up/killed even more than they are today?

Diagnosis of trans status in young children based on the smallest of signals goes way beyond letting people be "free to choose their gender"

Making all discussions of feminism, sex differences, gender politics, etc. subordinate to trans issues is very different from inclusion...

I was very sympathetic to the trans narratives at one point but it's been surreal to see them dominate all discussions remotely related to gender and sexuality

On a somewhat related note there is not much liberating or neutral about a lot of the baggage now being pushed on young children - I'm not suggesting it was ever "neutral" or "natural" though

[guruilla]

And again - why is it a mindfuck that people are free to chose the gender they feel most comfortable with? Would you prefer we go back to the good old "Christian morality uber alles" days when homosexuality was illegal and transgendered people got beaten up/killed even more than they are today?

Zeroing in on the only post I feel "offended" by: this is not only a spurious argument but a clear piece of evidence of how we are, IMO, being psychologically "played" through this fake polarity crap (both ends of which are Rockefeller-funded). It is not either neoliberal transhumanist/anything-goes bullshit or Christian puritan bullshit; nor is the former a "solution" to the latter, or vice versa. They are twin pathologies, the Jekyll of ego-repression/sublimation and the Hyde of id-"liberation." Neither one represents reality or leads to wholeness, any more than surgically altering one's genitals or choosing which demographic to have sex with does.

Nor, IMO, is it just some dastardly distortion of things or cynical exploitation of honorable causes that gay liberation & transgenderism have moved in tandem with pedophilia-avocation. Once you abandon the ground of psychological and biological reality, all that's left is either morality restrictions or "Do what Thou Wilt As Long as It Gets You Off & Never Mind Who it 'Harms' (since the idea of harm is just a puritan plot)." Fuck that shit.

Now while it's reasonable to question the motives for this poll, it's not reasonable to question the simplicity of it; to my mind, there were too many fancy neoliberal options, not not enough. How about:
I have a penis
I have a vagina
I have both
It's none of your business

Or, if we really want to know how many trans are among us:
I used to have .... but now .... etc.

Biological facts are not changed by ideology, only by surgery. Nor, in my perhaps extremist view, does surgery change one's gender; only one's junk. Unless we want to say that gender is only about genitalia?

(I may have contradicted myself there. I can't speak for the "woman's soul trapped in a man's body" thing; as far as I know most transgender arguments don't rely on metaphysics. Nor AFAIK do most metaphysics posit soul as having a gender)

This is not about right or wrong, but about what's true or false, real or unreal. Lose sight of that, and there's nothing left but some eternal disembodied limbo, in which trans has trumped human.

Anyway, while I'm not all that curious about who I am sharing thoughts with here (it's a forum, by our posts do we know each other), I think it was a good idea to have this poll, if only to provoke some discussion over such freighted subject matter.

[brekin]

Genders are like opinions, everybody's got one. And everybody's got an opinion about gender. And since there is no consensus on opinions, there will be none on gender either. Now everyone, put on your big (insert gender identification of your choice here) pants, and get back to work.

[backtoiam]

Who are the "deviant elite", and why are they deviant? Because they don't support the traditional man/woman paradigm?

No. It is because they are assholes hiding under a veil of saviorship and haters that wish to tear the fabric out of any existing construct so that they can create anew to their own advantage. Nations, gender, religion, political, tribal, color, ethnicity, race, and belief of any kind that unites a group, they will rip to shreds, under the cover of being a protector, using the color of law, while pretending to be a savior of that which they seek to rip to shreds, for their own benefit. Chaos 101

Yes. Free to choose the gender you feel most comfortable with.

That freedom already exists.

Tearing down masculinity gets rid of any potential capable warrior, that is capable of defending the community against elite aggression.

Why? Because it costs money to change gender?

The elite have no business worrying about what people perceive their gender to be. Nature can take care of that all by itself. Can you think of any reason why the elite need to mess with peoples identity?

Again - why? Why is it transhumanist to not subscribe to the traditional gender roles?

Nobody said it was, except, well maybe, the elite narrative.

Is it transhumanist to support gay rights too?

No. But everybody can do with their genitals as they see fit. No need in making any of it a "right", above other "rights", right? It is not against the law to play with other peoples privates unless you abuse children.

And again - why is it a mindfuck that people are free to chose the gender they feel most comfortable with?

Last time I checked people were born with those. Perhaps you are mistaking gender with sexual preference? People are free to choose their sexual preference and there is no law against it.

Would you prefer we go back to the good old "Christian morality uber alles" days when homosexuality was illegal and transgendered people got beaten up/killed even more than they are today?

That is in the past. Obviously progress has been made. Nobody is getting burned at the stake for their sexual preference. There may some small tribal enclaves in remote parts of the world where this still happens but i'm sure they will get some "democracy" to cure that, and steal all their natural resources.

I'm glad I won't live to see the end of this asshattery. Watching my younger brethren swallow low quality bait is painful.

[Elvis]

hey I'm not on that list!

[guruilla]

hey I'm not on that list!

Did it include neurodeviant?

[semper occultus]

hey I'm not on that list!

....the poll list or Project Willow's long-form version...?

...and did she actually type all of that out long-hand !? ...( surely post of the year if so )

[Project Willow]

hey I'm not on that list!

....the poll list or Project Willow's long-form version...?

...and did she actually type all of that out long-hand !? ...( surely post of the year if so )

No, actually I was looking for a tumblr site that keeps tabs all the new emerging genders, but I couldn't find it, so I copy-pasted something sort of close to it.

It's interesting to watch some of the discussion here, as it's happening between male posters who are largely unaware of the feminist critique of gender, (radfem, not libfem). I'd chime in more, as exploring the existing scholarship from different ideologies and fields of study, and where perceived boundaries lie between innate and socialized gendered behavior is a big, worthy project. I am just not up to it right now.

[brekin]

Project Willow wrote:

It's interesting to watch some of the discussion here, as it's happening between male posters who are largely unaware of the feminist critique of gender, (radfem, not libfem). I'd chime in more, as exploring the existing scholarship from different ideologies and fields of study, and where perceived boundaries lie between innate and socialized gendered behavior is a big, worthy project. I am just not up to it right now.

Please try to find the time to enlighten us all.

[Agent Orange Cooper]

This is such a deep, dark rabbit hole that it's hard to even know where begin talking about it. Mark me down as sympathetic to the radfem position that the entire concept of 'gender' is a patriarchal control-mechanism. It doesn't actually exist. While sex exists, gender is imaginary.

To quote a friend, "transgenderism is the trojan horse of patriarchy." It's entirely based around the total denial of basic biological facts, such as sexual dimorphism in mammals, not to mention normalizing mental illness. It's a War on Women, who are the sworn enemy of most MtFs. Women are quickly being forced to give up all notions that they have a right to women-only spaces (like public restrooms), because it makes the transwomen (who are actually a very loud but very tiny minority) feel bad. Oh, and ladies, you can forget about talking about things like menstruation or your genitalia in public anymore. Because, to quote a relevant meme, "men's feels trump women's lived reality." It's like we never left the 19th century.

It's also a war on homosexuality (and especially lesbians, who already have it rough). Where once a boy who liked to play with Barbie's might have been assumed to be gay, now they are assumed to be actually a woman. It's actually completely insane when you examine it closely. War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Penis is Female.