#4thPrecinctShutown in Minneapolis attacked by racist trolls

[American Dream]

https://nycantifa.wordpress.com/2015/11 ... st-trolls/

#4thPrecinctShutown in Minneapolis attacked by racist trolls

Posted on November 24, 2015 by valdinoci


“SaigaMarine” and “BlackPowderRanger”, racists who had been harassing the #4thPrecinctShutdown ahead of last night’s shooting

Last night a group of 3-4 men opened fire on our comrades at the #4thPrecinctShutdown in Minneapolis. They had been harassing the camp for days, releasing videos of themselves brandishing guns inside their SUV, spouting racial slurs, and telling their online audience to “stay white.” Fully aware of their white supremacist leanings, protesters formed a defense committee to remove them the next time they showed. When they refused to leave or identify themselves, things got violent. The racists ran, and when they were far enough away, they opened fire on the protesters.

Police responded by shutting down the street and pepper-spraying the crowd, potentially delaying ambulance response time. Up to 5 were hit, one seriously, although all are expected to survive. The group seems to have been organized by regulars on 4chan’s politics and weapons forums. White supremacist 4chan regulars also coordinated last week’s White Student Union hoax. As of Tuesday, the police say they have arrested two suspects.

The protest is a response to the police murder of Jamar Clark, an unarmed black man who many witnesses say was handcuffed and face-down on the ground when executed by Minneapolis police. Per usual, the police and their supporters want us to believe Clark was reaching for the officer’s weapon. Among other demands, protesters want to see the police video of the incident.

In a similar case in Chicago, a man named Laquan McDonald was murdered by officer Jason Van Dyke, who has a well-documented history of racism and brutality while in uniform. The police force, including the several other cops who were at the scene defended Van Dyke until dash-cam footage of him pumping dozens of rounds into McDonald was ordered released to the public by a Cook County judge. Only once the video began to circulate was Van Dyke arrested and charged with first degree murder.

One of many battle grounds in the growing movement to end police killings and to assert the dignity of black lives in a white-supremacist society, the Minneapolis protesters have survived constant attacks by the police, divide-and-conquer efforts by politicians, and intense cold. Even after taking live fire, they’re still there. They have our total solidarity.

A rally has been called for Weds November 25 at 6pm in Washington Square Park: https://facebook.com/events/868886676513181

[Wombaticus Rex]

My friend, firearms is where "trolling" ends. These dudes weren't trolls, for the sweet sake of fuck.

Via: http://www.startribune.com/police-searc ... 353154811/

Minneapolis police said Tuesday that they have arrested three men in connection with the shooting. Allen Lawrence “Lance” Scarsella III, 23, was arrested in Bloomington. Sources said Nathan Gustavsson, 21, of Hermantown, and Daniel Macey, 26, of Pine City, were taken into custody after they turned themselves in. All three suspects are white. Earlier Tuesday, police arrested a 32-year-old Hispanic man in south Minneapolis, but he was later released because, police said, he was not at the scene of the shooting.

Via: http://heavy.com/news/2015/11/nathan-gu ... -facebook/

A fourth person, a 32-year-old Hispanic man who goes by the name “Saiga Marine” online, was brought in for questioning Tuesday, but released after police determined he was not at the protests Monday night.

[American Dream]

Video Shows 4chan White Supremacists Bringing Gun to Minneapolis Protest Days Before Shooting

On Thursday night, four days before unnamed gunmen shot five people at a Black Lives Matter protest in Minneapolis, video surfaced of two men driving toward ongoing demonstrations around the police shooting of Jamar Clark, one of them carrying what appears to be a handgun. “We’re going to see what these fucking dindus are up to,” one of the men says near the beginning of the video. “And yes, we are locked and loaded.”

http://gawker.com/five-people-shot-duri ... 1744381326.

Black Lives Matter Minneapolis posted the video to Facebook on Friday after a supporter noticed it on Livestream and sent it to the organization, a spokesperson told me via email, and the original Livestream upload appears to have since been deleted. The men in the video, who identify themselves by the aliases SaigaMarine and BlackPowderRanger, have not been connected to Monday evening’s shooting. Miski Noor, a Black Lives Matter spokeswoman, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune that the shooters were “a group of white supremacists,”and police said they are seeking three white men as suspects. One of those suspects, an unnamed 23-year-old white male, was arrested this afternoon in Bloomington, police stated via Twitter.

UPDATE (2:22 p.m.): A second suspect, an unnamed 32-year-old Hispanic male, was arrested in south Minneapolis this afternoon. Police are still searching for additinal suspects.

SaigaMarine and BlackPowderRanger identify themselves as white supremacists in the video, if not explicitly so. After repeated references to “dindus,” a racial slur for black people, SaigaMarine signs off by pointing to the camera and saying “stay white.” The men also make apparent references to /pol/, 4chan’s “politically incorrect” message board, where users discuss world news and politics with a white far-right, white nationalist bent.

SaigaMarine and BlackPowderRanger can also be seen at the scene of Thursday’s protest in an activist-shot video that was originally broadcast on Livestream. At one point, the two men approach the cameraperson, posing as demonstrators, and are interviewed. “All these folks here should get the justice and peace that they deserve. We need to reach out to our communities, especially our melanin-enriched communities,” BlackPowderRanger says with apparent sarcasm. The men are clearly trying to troll their interviewer, but they are not violent, and neither is visibly carrying a weapon.

http://www.newsgrio.com/articles/154850 ... oting.html

[elfismiles]

The group seems to have been organized by regulars on 4chan’s politics and weapons forums. White supremacist 4chan regulars also coordinated last week’s White Student Union hoax.

White Student Union Facebook pages spread nationwide
USA Today NetworkMorgan Baskin, USA TODAY College 7:54 a.m. EST November 25, 2015

An anonymous Facebook page created early in the week at the University of Illinois may have been among the first White Student Union pages to pop up, but it’s hardly been the last.

Appearing at Illinois after black students held a rally Wednesday, the page reportedly characterized the Black Lives Matter movement as an act of “terrorism” and called for themonitoring of African-American students who attended the protest, leaving many feeling unsafe at the Urbana-Champaign campus.

Now, as unconfirmed reports – including an anonymous report from Medium — blame the postings on either a white supremacist group or 4Chan users, more than 30 white student union Facebook pages, claiming to represent real college organizations, have been posted. Some schools are quickly distancing themselves — and petitioning Facebook to take them down.

Schools affected include George Washington University, Pennsylvania State University, Stanford University, Swarthmore College, the University of Mississippi, Ohio State University, New York University and the University of Texas – Austin.

Officials at George Washington University, where a white student union page was created on Sunday, condemned the page in a Facebook post published Monday afternoon and encouraged universities to report their pages to the social media giant.

“Other universities around the country have seen similar pages being created in the last week in what appears to be an orchestrated effort. Many have already spoken out against the vitriol and we are asking that the other universities (tagged below) join us in asking Facebook to delete these pages, which are being used for harassment and intimidation,” the post reads.

NYU Director of Public Affairs Matt Nagel told the New York Daily News that the group has used the NYU logo “illegally and without permission, and we have contacted Facebook to demand the NYU logo be removed. We reject — and we call on others to reject — efforts such as this to derail or distort candid, thoughtful discourse on race.”

A spokesperson for Facebook told USA TODAY College that it has deleted some white student union pages created by fake Facebook accounts, which violates its community standards, but that others can not be deleted as they don’t violate community standards, including pages publishing content that “directly attacks people based on their race.”

The pages contain messages and comments like, “We unapologetically provide a safe space for white students to air their true feelings about the future of our nation … at the same time, we do not wish to denigrate or harm any other group or ethnicity.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /76360120/

[elfismiles]

Word to that Wombat!

My friend, firearms is where "trolling" ends. These dudes weren't trolls, for the sweet sake of fuck.

[American Dream]

The men who shot at the Minneapolis protesters want to scare all black people
Steven W Thrasher

The alleged white supremacists who injured five people at a Black Lives Matter protest intended to terrorize more than just the people they hurt


A demonstrator speaks about his encounter with attackers who shot five protesters near the Minneapolis Police 4th Precinct on Monday night.

When gun-toting alleged white supremacists shot up a peaceful Black Lives Matter protest outside a police station in Minneapolis on Monday night, leaving five people wounded and terrorizing Black Lives Matter activists locally and nationally, I was sad, but not surprised. This is how America rolls: we are a nation founded and still peopled by white people enacting violence against people of color.

In the older lynching era, it wasn’t uncommon for civilians to take matters into their hands whenever black Americans gained a little political or economic ground. But under the KKK hoods were quite often members of local law enforcement.

In the modern era in a country with more guns than people, there remain civilian enforcers of racist terrorism, but black Americans still fear members of local law enforcement. More than 1,000 people have been killed by American police this year, and black people killed are twice as likely to be unarmed as the whites.

It wasn’t because of civilian racists that Black Lives Matter activists bravely put themselves in harm’s way in Minneapolis before the shooting started: they were there to protest yet another killing of a black man by police. This time, it was the death of Jamar Clark, which has been ruled a homicide. Eyewitnesses said that Clark was handcuffed when he was shot in the head; Minneapolis police officers Mark Ringgenberg and Dustin Schwarze – Schwarze was previously sued for civil rights violations – have been named as the officers involved.

I am not surprised that white perpetrators are allegedly behind a violent attack at a non-violent protest. For the past year and a half, leading politicians have claimed, incorrectly, that Black Lives Matter is calling for the murder of cops – despite clear evidence that police deaths are at historic lows.

The leading candidate in one of the country’s two political parties has consistently primed the pumps for racialized violence: after a Black Lives Matter protester was attacked at one of his rallies last weekend as his supporters cheered, he said “maybe he should have been roughed up” and then peddled in deeply racist, dangerous and unscientific Twitter propaganda about the mythology of “black on black crime”.

Meanwhile, a study by the New America Foundation this summer found that domestic white extremists have killed more Americans since 9/11 than foreign terrorists – which is not surprising to anyone who has studied American history, slavery, lynching or the history of mass shootings.

I don’t fear protesters – and I didn’t in Ferguson the night after a shooting last spring. I certainly don’t fear Isis. I fear the police and their tanks and their tear gas and their guns and the very real possibility that white men who look like them and walk around brandishing guns with impunity could start shooting.

All the same, the Black Lives Matter movement has been constantly told that it needs to be more pacifist like Martin Luther King. But white supremacy has always been violent to peaceful protest by blacks.

One of the first black kids who tried to go to peacefully integrate a public school, Ruby Bridges, was spit on, and needed federal marshals to keep white people from killing her. When black swimmers peacefully integrated a pool in St. Augustine Florida, hotel owner James Brock poured acid into it. When blacks peacefully created their own nice neighborhood, “Black Wall Street”, in Tulsa, it was firebombed in 1921 and hundreds were killed. And the beloved Martin Luther King was repaid for protesting peacefully with physical assault, fire hoses, dogs and jail, before being shot dead.

While it is being reported that none of the injured are suffering “life threatening injuries”, that’s not an accurate accounting of their real injuries. I am relieved that they will survive, of course, but their lives were threatened. Their ability to live, in the most basic sense of the word, has been injured. Their ability to live fully – to feel secure in body and mind and spirit, and to congregate in groups outside, and to protest – has certainly been threatened.

Indeed for black America, just as lynching was meant to to, this attack has created threatening injuries to our social life. The movement for black lives will continue to thrive: it keeps getting stronger week by week, from the streets of Ferguson to college campuses across the country. But black community suffers life threatening injuries whenever something like this happens.

Good and strong people will rise up despite the threats to their lives, but the work will be harder, and the toll on black psyches and spirits will be great as a result of both the violence of the police and civilian shooters in Minneapolis.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ack-people

Emails reveal racists plotted confrontation with Black Lives Matters activists days before shooting

Three white men wearing bulletproof vests and covering their face with masks shot five Black Lives Matter protesters Monday night in Minneapolis — and some social media users are claiming the gunmen fired in self-defense.

The men, described by some witnesses as white supremacists, wounded five demonstrators shortly before 11 p.m. outside the city’s Fourth Precinct during an ongoing protest of the police shooting death of 24-year-old Jamar Clark.

Police said Tuesday afternoon that a 23-year-old white man and a 32-year-old Hispanic man had been arrested in connection with the shooting.

Demonstrators say masked men wearing military-style clothing have been harassing them for days during the protests, and Black Lives Matter Minneapolis posted a video Friday of two men on their way to disrupt the protests.

It’s not clear whether the two men in the video are connected to Monday’s shooting, and it’s not clear how Black Lives Matter obtained that video.

White supremacists have discussed various strategies online for sparking confrontation at the demonstration, which they described as a “chimpout.”

“Do you know if the BLM n*****s are planning to protest again tomorrow, and if so, at what time?” one white supremacist asked in an email chain.

They agreed to wear camouflage clothing and display a four of clubs to identify each other, and the white supremacist agitators argued over whether they should carry guns or wear Guy Fawkes masks.

The white supremacist mocked “social justice warriors” and other anti-racist whites, who they described in psychosexual terms.

“Best to act as much like a beta white cuck as much as you can,” one of the racists said.

The activists said groups of men had been appearing at the demonstration and “acting shady” since Friday, so they put together a “safety committee” to watch for potential agitators and escort them away from the protests.

That’s apparently what happened just before the shooting, when some of the protesters confronted three men, described by witnesses as two white men and possibly one Asian man.

Witnesses say the gunmen were trying to record demonstrators’ faces on cell phone video shortly before opening fire, and the two groups argued.

Then a group of protesters charged at the men and demanded they remove their masks, but witnesses said the men shouted back, “f*ck no,” and continued recording cell phone video.

A demonstrator, who spoke on camera with a mask covering his face, said one of the men was carrying a Black Lives Matter sign.

The witness said a demonstrator came out of the crowd and punched one of the white men, and another man stepped back and reached toward his waistband.

“I was like, he’s got a gun, he’s got a gun,” said a second witness, who also covered his face on camera.

The demonstrators said the three men then walked away from the crowd and through a gate, where another protester punched one of the men, and the three men ran off with several protesters behind.

“I was like, they’ve got a gun — don’t follow them,” the second witness said. “Don’t chase them — they’re reaching for a gun.”

The witnesses said the men then stopped in an area where no cameras were present, turned around and opened fire on the six protesters who had been chasing them.

They wounded five of them, although police have said none of their injuries were life-threatening.

The gunmen then ran to an SUV and drove away, witnesses said.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/emails- ... -shooting/

[American Dream]

http://eveyveveryv.tumblr.com/post/133949771594

A Hail of Bullets in Minneapolis

Around midnight on Tuesday Nov. 24th, a group of 3 white men in camouflage and face masks approached a crowd of Black Lives Matter protesters outside the Minneapolis Police Department’s 4th precinct. Demonstrators had gathered there for a week in response to the assassination of Jamar Clark by Minneapolis cops, shot in the head while handcuffed. Now their resistance had attracted the attention of more armed racists.

For several days, white supremacists had visited and threatened the Minneapolis protesters: they drove by in cars, filmed the crowd, and brandished guns in online videos. On Tuesday things escalated. Part of the crowd confronted the men and demanded they leave. As the men retreated to their car, they turned on the crowd, drew guns, and fired. Five people were wounded.

The fact that protesters had the bravery to make the racists leave probably saved many lives.

A Battle on Two Fronts

The attack in Minneapolis is disgusting, but it comes as no surprise. For the past year, every wave of resistance to white supremacy and police murder has been met by an ominous right wing response. Dylan Roof massacred churchgoers in Charleston, churches across the South and Midwest were set ablaze, and students at Mizzou received harassment and death threats on campus. KKK thugs said they would kill BLM protestors. Now comes the shooting in Minneapolis.

The police are complicit in these right-wing attacks, and have historically conspired to help carry them out. When protesters in Minneapolis scrambled to help their comrades, cops allowed the attackers to flee, maced the crowd, withheld first aid, and laughed at protesters, telling them “you asked for this.”

The movement against racism and police violence now faces a battle on two fronts. On one side are fascist and far right groups, and on the other are the police. Their actions complement each other, working in tandem to suppress protest through violence and fear.

Self Defense Means Survival

Black and Brown people can no longer afford to remain “peaceful” and “nonviolent” in the face of racist attacks. We see where that gets us: the grave or the emergency room. Nor can we rely on the courts and police to protect us from armed racists. That would only reinforce the boot on our necks that we’ve been struggling to throw off.

A blatant white supremacist attack demands a militant response. We must defend ourselves against white supremacy wherever it shows its face, whether it wears a Klan hood, a hunting mask, or a riot helmet. White supremacy is incarcerating 1 in 3 black men, committing genocide against black trans women and targeting black youth in the streets. Our survival depends on our ability to fight back against these forces, on our own terms.

We need to prepare. When we break through police lines, de-arrest our comrades, and deny police access to our hoods, we are practicing self-defense. When we break up racist rallies and deny them a public platform, we are practicing self-defense. When we stop the far right dead in their tracks, we are practicing self-defense. In honor of our fallen friends and comrades–and for our own lives–we must study the history of self-defense, practice, and learn to defend ourselves.

Our communities are strong, with a long history of militant struggle against white supremacy. We have Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman, John Brown, Robert F. Williams, Malcolm X, the Black Panthers and Marsha P. Johnson on our side. We have the power in our hands. The question is how we use it.

[American Dream]

FAR-RIGHT GROWS AS DEMONSTRATIONS SPREAD FOR MINNEAPOLIS AND CHICAGO

November 26, 2015

Activists chanting and dancing while singing Kendrick Lamar. #LaquanMcDonald pic.twitter.com/FAXvV5JJh5

— Zach Stafford (@ZachStafford) November 25, 2015

Originally posted to It’s Going Down

As shots rang out in Minneapolis, hitting 5 protesters at the #JusticeforJamar encampment outside of the 4th Prescient in the north part of the city, a new bloody chapter in the struggle against white supremacy was written. Not since the Greensboro Massacre in 1979 in North Carolina, where members of Klan and Neo-Nazi (and several undercover FBI agents who did nothing) groups opened fired on revolutionary leftist protesters, killing several, has such violence at demonstrations reached this level. Currently, it appears that the racists involved in the attack were tied to the far-Right militia movement. But while by and large far-Right, white nationalist, and Neo-Nazi groups and individuals have steered clear of open attack against anarchist, left, and Black Lives Matter protests, events, and spaces, in the past several years, white supremacists have killed close to 100 people in the United States.

Currently, at the time of this writing, support demonstrations have taken place in New York, Philly, and Denver, with more planned in South Minneapolis and Oakland.

"@SeanSean252: @WayneDupreeShow @Rockprincess818 @CheriJacobus pic.twitter.com/5GUwhhtvyN"

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 22, 2015

But while the recent shootings in Minneapolis draw headlines, beneath the surface we see a rising tide of growing white nationalism that is entering more and more both into the mainstream and also into the Republican establishment. Several days ago, Donald Trump continued to show his racist colors after he posted a racist meme that seems to have originated from a Neo-Nazi source. The meme, based on faulty facts, proposes that black people kill whites (and each other) at an alarming rate, much higher than the rate killed by police. This logic is a golden standard for the racist right, and acts as an autonomous auxiliary to the state to build justification for mass state murder of black and brown people.

But beyond Trump’s run for the white house, other signs point to white nationalism entering the mainstream, from the success of writer Jack Donovan, a gay white fascist, to the continued growth and influence of white nationalist speakers and thinkers like Matthew Heimbach of the Traditionalist Workers’ Party, Counter-Currents Publishing, the National Socialist Movement (NSM), Jared Taylor of American Renaissance, and various conferences such as the National Policy Institute.

Laquan McDonald shooting protest groups plan Black Friday march on Michigan Avenue https://t.co/J6xrTSMt3b pic.twitter.com/Ezv9nPslOH

— Chicago Tribune (@chicagotribune) November 26, 2015

In many ways, while these groups may be creeping in to the mainstream, they still have yet to have a real foot hold within the white working and middle-class. This lack of influence is caused by and results in, continuous members of the white racist and fascist cause resorting to terror and mass murder. From attacks on Sikh temples to mass shootings at Jewish religious centers, US white nationalism has left a trail of death and destruction – more dangerous than any Jihadi extremist. While the more upper-middle class elements of the movement may try hard to distance themselves from these “lone wolves,” the very real connections between all of these players is well documented and extremely clear. Keeping these movements away from the white working class is one of the most important – and difficult tasks that anarchists now can be working on.

#NYC: #4thPrecinctShutDown solidarity March ending with Assata's words! #JamarClark #BlackLivesMatter pic.twitter.com/MHztAVluRX

— Ash J (@AshAgony) November 26, 2015

Also in the last week, we saw the popping up of “White Student Unions” on several college campuses, from Illinois, to UCLA, to even UC Berkeley. Like much of the current crop of white nationalist rising stars and Trump himself, these groups claim not to be racist and heavily borrow from language used by progressive groups. They talk about creating a “safer space” and to “represent” their own interests. Looking closer at much of this language, one sees that these groups promote basic fascist and nationalist talking points. Using the universities as a launch pad for further action is a strategy that Matthew Heimbach has articulated in the recent path and is something that we can and should work to counter.

Developing a presence again on campuses when possible, especially Community Colleges where tuition is generally somewhat low and the student demographic is more diverse in terms of class and race, is also a good starting point for building connections with young adults beginning to question and think about the wider world.

Video shows #LaquanMcDonald shot 16 times in a matter of seconds https://t.co/j9693bj4Lm pic.twitter.com/nuNZcEy3OF

— Independent US (@IndyUSA) November 25, 2015

In the back drop of all of this, is the continuing rupture of black rebellion in the United States as anger continues to build over police violence, mass incarceration, low paying jobs and gentrification, and a widening racial and class gap. As we speak, the video of 17 year old Laquan MacDonald, shot horrifically in late 2014, has just been released in Chicago. In the last several nights, hundreds have taken to the streets against the killing.

With Occupy, much of those that came to be involved in the movement were whites who were angry that they had been “denied” access to “the wages of whiteness.” Access to home-ownership, affordable education, free from debt, a decent paying job, and even freedom from not being attacked by the police. The neo-liberal restructuring of the economy ended up hurting many working-class and even middle-class whites, giving them a basic taste of what black, brown, Native, and people of color in the United States have been dealing with for years along with tear-gas and police baton blows.

Protesters marching through the streets of Chicago tonight #LaquanMcDonald pic.twitter.com/AUDtP75k0k

— Ashlee Rezin (@Ashlee_Rezin) November 25, 2015

But with the launching of the Black Lives Matter movement in the wake of the Ferguson Uprising, in many ways the far-Right found a narrative that they could latch onto and win. By portraying the eruption of riots, protests, and freeways blockades as a symptom of the breakdown of law and order, i.e, the racial order and the power and ability of the state to maintain it, the far-Right positioned itself, and fascism as the only solution. “Your borders” are not secure, “your police” are not safe, “your cities” are burning, they cried. As long as the state and its institutions in the eyes of working class whites remain legitimate, these words will continue to gain adherents.

And while in the past, Presidential Administrations from Reagan to Clinton to Obama, have attempted to articulate a “soft” and “unspoken” white supremacy, more and more, the far-Right is continuing to push the envelope. At the same time, despite a push by the official Left to try and address issues of policing, wealth inequality, and lack of access to basic resources, the contradictions and inherent problems found within this post-colonial racist capitalist system still persists and grow deeper. This is of course to say nothing of the hurdling collapse of industrial civilization that both parities only see to deny or better manage.

#CHICAGO: Protesters are continuning EB along Roosevelt, just passing Clark St. pic.twitter.com/KGGYgjHDtl

— WGN-TV Traffic (@WGNtraffic) November 25, 2015

The growth of the far-Right points to a need for an autonomous anti-capitalist material force in the streets and communities across the US and the world. There is no hope in the vote, either in Sanders or in the Democrats more broadly. Only in getting organized where we are can we create a path forward.

[Wombaticus Rex]

AD - has there been any theoretical/praxis conversation about triggering right wing violence as outcome of all this mobilization?

Is this seen as an unavoidable side effect of more visible organization? Is the working assumption that the right wing in fact "GROWS," per the headline above, or are these protests just flushing out/agitating reactionaries who were living in the same zip code the whole time?

Or - and this is of particular interest to me - has anyone been frank enough to describe this as a desirable outcome for their movement?

[American Dream]

Those who want to look more deeply into the issues of the broader ecology between the (allegedly) more moderate and less militant far right tendencies and the more notorious murderous Nazi types could do know better to read through the anti-fascist articles archived here:


Articles: Post-Third Position Fascism

https://postthirdpositionfascism.wordpr ... /articles/

Welcome to Post-Third Position Fascism. The purpose of this blog is to provide resources regarding recent permutations of Third Position and New Right fascist movements, especially in the U.S. – as well as groups that are influenced by these trends or work in alliance with them. These include, but are not limited to, groups like National-Anarchists, Attack the System, New Resistance, and others. We’ll also look at the attempts to appropriate radical left symbols and slogans by European groups like Casa Pound and the Autonomous Nationalists.

Third Position fascism is a lesser-known type of fascism that is anti-capitalist, believes in racial separatism rather than racial supremacy (and therefore can unite white and POC separatist groups in what we call reciprocal ethno-separatism), and is often interested in issues like ecology and animal rights. The origins of the Third Position lie largely in Otto Strasser’s wing of the original Nazi party. The term itself arose in the 1970s around the Italian “Nazi-Maoists.” It became influential on British groups like the National Front; Russian groups like the National Bolshevik Party; and later on U.S. groups like the Tom Metzger’s White Aryan Resistance (WAR), the American Front, the White Order of Thule, and the National Alliance.

More recently longtime fascist activists, many of whom were involved in groups like the European Liberation Front (and the associated LCRN), have continued to develop and change their ideology. These include far right activists like Britain’s Troy Southgate, America’s James Porrazzo, and Russia’s Alexander Dugin. As right-wing monitor Chip Berlet points out, these are not just followers of similar ideas, but participants in a close-knit, international network of postwar fascists. They have developed in different directions, sometimes embracing a Eurasian superstate in opposition to liberal international capitalism, while at other times endorsing a micronational ethnic separatism and even fusing with racist, antisemitic elements of the Ron Paul wing of libertarianism. All of them deny being “fascist” – while continuing to promote the same ideas they have held for decades.

We’ll keep track of all of them, and expose their attempts at “entryism” in the left; their promotion of holocaust denial and other conspiracy theories; and their attempts to justify and endorse the White Nationalists’ supposed “right” to Jim Crow white racial separatism.

We are in opposition to white supremacy and white separatism; anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish views and conspiracy theories; patriarchy and homophobia – and to capitalism and all authoritarian forms of statist and religious rule.

https://postthirdpositionfascism.wordpress.com/about/

[slomo]

Or - and this is of particular interest to me - has anyone been frank enough to describe this as a desirable outcome for their movement?

This is a really interesting question. My guess is the answer is "no". Nobody is frank enough to make such an admission.

But I don't have any data. One counterexample is enough to prove me wrong.

[slomo]

And anybody who's frequented these parts for longer than a year knows that the inevitable outcome of extremism on any side is the growth of extremism on the polar opposite side. Justifying more extreme social control measures.

We're quickly getting to the point where we will need totalitarian control or else suffer the same fate as the former Yugoslavia.

Is this a desirable outcome?

[Iamwhomiam]

WRex wrote,

...are these protests just flushing out/agitating reactionaries who were living in the same zip code the whole time?

Or - and this is of particular interest to me - has anyone been frank enough to describe this as a desirable outcome for their movement?

Yes, both are very good questions, WRex. Yes to the first. They are indeed flushing out the ignorant among radical activists. It is beneficial to all movements, and advances their agenda.

slomo wrote,

And anybody who's frequented these parts for longer than a year knows that the inevitable outcome of extremism on any side is the growth of extremism on the polar opposite side. Justifying more extreme social control measures.

<snip>

...we will need totalitarian control...

Is this a desirable outcome?

Social disorder disrupts commerce and deprives the capitalist engine its fuel. That is an indefensible offense to some.

But, considering I've corrected your comment,

Yes.

[DrEvil]

And anybody who's frequented these parts for longer than a year knows that the inevitable outcome of extremism on any side is the growth of extremism on the polar opposite side. Justifying more extreme social control measures.

We're quickly getting to the point where we will need totalitarian control or else suffer the same fate as the former Yugoslavia.

Is this a desirable outcome?

Yes. The US is so polarized you might as well just break it up into individual states.

[backtoiam]

Yes. The US is so polarized you might as well just break it up into individual states.

States of what? States of mind? States of gender? States of color? States of socio economic class? States of ethnicity? States of religion? It is in progress as we speak.

But balkanization might be on the table too. I posted a graphic somewhere in this forum a couple of months ago that showed the balkanization potential of the U.S. and when a person sees the possibilities it is brain food. I don't remember which thread but I will try to remember.