Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff
by Burnt Hill » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:30 pm
by Burnt Hill » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:49 pm
by SonicG » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:30 pm
Elvis » Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:45 am wrote:SonicG » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:07 am wrote:Re: The argument. I think there were initial reports that he left after an argument, and then later that he just left suddenly. That the Messianic Jew at work argued with someone online...Seriously though, much like "I clearly saw three men with guns" to a man and a five foot nursing mother. You can't misremember an argument so easily can you?
Sonic, no one misremembered the argument because it didn't happen: the "argument" and "left angry" rumors are discredited. They were anonymous leads (in every sense of the word) leaked to reporters who repeated them, while actual named witnesses say they saw no argument, and that Farook behaved normally, saying "I'll be right back" before getting up from his chair, leaving his jacket.
The event was divided between a training session and a holiday party, and right before the shooters entered, the training session ended and a break was called. Lots of people got up and went to the restroom, etc. and many were in the restrooms when the gun-MEN (as reported by all witnesses on video) came in.
I wasn't having any of it either, until I sorted the noise from the real.
by SonicG » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:30 pm
Burnt Hill » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:49 am wrote:Is there any chance this is really a picture of the couple?
And does this website have any credibility at all anyway?-
http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2015/12/syed-rizwan-farook-wife-tashfeen-malik-planned-attack/
by Burnt Hill » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:41 pm
SonicG » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:30 pm wrote:Burnt Hill » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:49 am wrote:Is there any chance this is really a picture of the couple?
And does this website have any credibility at all anyway?-
http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2015/12/syed-rizwan-farook-wife-tashfeen-malik-planned-attack/
Don't know but there is absolutely no source for that photo...
by Nordic » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:54 pm
Burnt Hill » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:41 pm wrote:SonicG » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:30 pm wrote:Burnt Hill » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:49 am wrote:Is there any chance this is really a picture of the couple?
And does this website have any credibility at all anyway?-
http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2015/12/syed-rizwan-farook-wife-tashfeen-malik-planned-attack/
Don't know but there is absolutely no source for that photo...
The website credits it to "social media".
No source- so does that suggest it is "planted" info?
by lupercal » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:16 am
by stickdog99 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:01 am
Burnt Hill » 22 Dec 2015 01:57 wrote:Cordelia » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:10 pm wrote:MacCruiskeen » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:09 pm wrote:
So WHAT HEIGHT WAS TASHFEEN MALIK?
All I could find, according to a lawyer:
"Malik was of petite stature, which led David S. Chesley, another attorney for the Farook family, to assert that she was an unlikely gunman in the San Bernardino attacks. "She was never involved in shooting. She's probably about 90 pounds, so it's unlikely she could even carry a weapon or wear some type of a vest or do any of this," Chesley said................
"Last May, Malik and her husband rented a townhouse in Redlands, about seven miles from the attack site, said Doyle Miller, their landlord and owner of the townhouse. The couple answered Miller's ad on Craigslist.
Miller said his wife interviewed the couple and he did not know them well. The couple had good credit.
"They seemed to be very timid," he told CNN. "I only saw him a couple times. He delivered the checks once in a while ... there was no cause for concern.
"Once we rented the property, we don't bother people," Miller said. "They seemed like gentle-minded people. I guess you can't judge a book by its cover."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/tashfe ... t-we-know/
Definition of stature in English:
noun
1A person’s natural height: a man of short stature she was small in stature
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/de ... sh/stature
Some witnesses reported three tall shooters but nobody noticed one couple (parents of an infant) with the statures of Mutt & Jeff ? Apply critical thinking.
Thanks Cordelia, I am trying to determine Tashfeens true stature here too.
Not sure why the lawyer would say "it's unlikely she could even carry a weapon or wear some type of a vest or do any of this".Even if she really only weighed "90" lbs., her potentially small stature would not preclude her from being able to do such things.
by Elvis » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:12 am
stickdog99 wrote:There is no evidence that she had ever fired a gun in her life, much less that she knew her way around an automatic weapon.
by Elvis » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:15 am
http://graphics.latimes.com/san-bernardino-chase/
‘All hell broke loose’ as police chased the San Bernardino shooters
How the hunt for the pair who killed 14 people in a terrorist attack ended with 455 bullets fired on a suburban street.
By Joel Rubin, Richard Winton, Brittny Mejia and Joseph Serna
Dec. 13, 2015
The light turned green, and the black Ford Expedition pulled away. Not too fast, not too slow.
Redlands police Sgt. Andy Capps was behind the SUV with his emergency lights and siren on, but the driver didn't stop.
First responders attend to a victims outside the social services center in San Bernardino. (KTLA and KNBC via AP)
It was six minutes after 3 on Wednesday afternoon. Hours earlier, a masked man and woman, clad in black and armed with military-style rifles, had stormed into a holiday party a few miles away in neighboring San Bernardino. Fourteen people were dead. Others were fighting for their lives.
A black SUV had been seen fleeing the scene. Capps had told his officers to stay alert, but privately he wasn't worried. Never in a million years will we encounter these people, he thought.
Now he thought otherwise.
Following the Expedition from a few car lengths behind, he could make out two people inside. They seemed to be changing clothes and handing objects back and forth.
Capps grabbed his radio. He warned officers in the cars behind him that the pair were probably arming themselves and putting on bulletproof vests.
The Expedition turned right onto San Bernardino Avenue.
Seconds later, its back window exploded.
Gun muzzle flashes erupted from the back seat of the SUV. A volley of bullets flew toward Capps. A short lull, then another eruption.
I hope it doesn't hurt too much when I get shot, Capps thought as he drove into the gunfire.
The assailants at the Inland Regional Center had targeted a gathering of county health workers. In the chaos that followed, an employee mentioned a hunch to a cop.
“A male subject who was in the meeting left out of the blue,” the officer reported over the radio to a dispatcher. "Um, and 20 minutes later the shooting occurred. The subject’s name is Farbook — Farook — — Frank Adam Roger Ocean Ocean King. First of Syed — Sam Yellow Edward David."
(Listen to more audio from the San Bernardino shooting)
A search of law enforcement databases turned up a few addresses in the area linked to Farook. San Bernardino police scrambled to dispatch officers to each of the residences. First on the list was a townhouse on Center Street in Redlands, about six miles away.
Sometime in the afternoon, a pair of detectives pulled up in front of the brown, two-story property. But, dressed in suits and driving a type of sedan typically used by police, they stood out as obvious cops. A team of undercover narcotics officers who specialized in surveillance was sent out to replace them.
The rented Center Street townhouse of Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik. (AFP / Getty Images)
Just as the undercover team was arriving in the area, a black Expedition approached. Police would later learn that the vehicle had been rented by Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik.
Detectives watched as the SUV slowed in front of the townhouse but kept moving down the street — “a soft drive by,” one of the officers reported over the radio.
The vehicle disappeared down the block, and for a few nervous minutes its whereabouts were unknown.
“It left, ahh, on Redlands at State Street,” one of the officers radioed. “We’re trying to catch up.“
Hearing the exchange, several more officers announced they were heading to the area. Police managed to quickly find the SUV and officers in unmarked cars trailed it surreptitiously as it wound its way through the streets of Redlands.
Capps came on duty at 11 that morning, just as the shooting rampage was unfolding. Instead of the quiet day he expected to spend supervising a handful of patrol officers, the 48-year-old watched as nervous residents flooded emergency lines at three times the typical volume of calls.
Some of his officers responded to a false alarm report of a shooter laying siege at the local Amazon distribution warehouse. Capps listened on the radio as others went in pursuit of a stolen vehicle. Knowing a supervisor would be needed there, he headed in the direction of the chase.
As he crossed an overpass to get on the San Bernardino Freeway, Capps noticed the driver of a silver Dodge van ahead of him frantically flailing his arm out the window.
Capps pulled up alongside the van. A young bearded man met his eyes.
“Can I help you?” Capps asked.
“San Bernardino PD,” the man said. “We’re following a suspect's vehicle, we don’t have any marked units and we need your help.”
Top: A police helicopter hovers over the Inland Regional Center. (Luis Sinco / Los Angeles Times) Middle: SWAT officers crouch on Richardson Street. (Gina Ferazzi / Los Angeles Times) Bottom: Police with guns drawn on San Bernardino Avenue as officers chase the suspects. (Francine Orr / Los Angeles Times)
Capps wouldn’t learn until later that the driver was Nicholas Koahou, one of the undercover officers who had been tailing the black SUV.
Capps fell in behind Koahou as he tore west down the freeway at about 100 mph. He broadcast his whereabouts to a Redlands dispatcher, asking her to get any information she could from San Bernardino police about the unfolding situation.
Capps and his officers had checked out more than one bogus call of a suspicious black SUV that day. As he drove, he thought this could just be another one. But the urgency in Koahou's voice told him this time might be different.
Minutes later, they exited the freeway onto Tippecanoe Avenue and immediately got caught in heavy traffic at a red light.
Capps saw another arm waving at him from a pickup truck. He maneuvered alongside.
"What are we looking for?" he asked.
The undercover officer pointed ahead. Several cars up, a black Expedition was idling at the traffic light.
Capps pulled into the opposite lane as the light turned green and slipped in behind the SUV as it drove away from the light. Looking in his rearview window, he was relieved to see a motorcycle cop and several cars from his department and others not far behind.
“This is too crazy,” he thought to himself. "How could this really be them?'"
When David Espinoza arrived for his afternoon shift as a supervisor at a warehouse on San Bernardino Avenue, he was told to keep an eye on the front gate. The shooting that morning had everyone spooked.
About an hour later, shortly after 3, Espinoza was chatting outside the gate with another worker when he caught the distant wail of police sirens.
Looking down the street to the west he saw a black SUV followed by a cavalcade of police cars. Thinking it wasn't anything big, he nonetheless reached for his phone and started recording.
The SUV wasn’t moving fast, maybe 40 mph. It passed by and Espinoza, 46, saw two people inside.
A loud pop cracked the air. Espinoza was momentarily confused. But as the back window of the SUV shattered, he pieced together what was happening.
“That’s when it got to me. That’s them,” he said.
The hazard lights on the SUV started flashing after that first shot. Several more rounds came from the SUV as it continued along the street.
Top: A bullet hole marks a trailer parked in a nearby driveway. (Marcus Yam / Los Angeles Times) Middle: Isabella Serrano hugs a neighbor after the shootout. (Marcus Yam / Los Angeles Times) Bottom: Billy Sirk was working nearby when the gunfire began. (Mark Boster / Los Angeles Times)
Espinoza saw the driver: Two hands gripping the steering wheel, glancing back two or three times at the police cars giving chase.
“He had that face of — scared,” Espinoza said.
Then, “all hell broke loose,” he said.
Bullets sounded as if they were slamming into the warehouse.
“Close the gate! Close the gate!’ he screamed.
Across the street, Billy Sirk was up on a ladder in the front yard of a rental property he owned, sawing branches off an overgrown tree.
From his perch, Sirk saw the police cars coming. The SUV passed by and then came to a stop a short distance down the street.
He watched as a woman opened one of the back doors and began shooting at police with a “long gun.”
Video Witness accounts
“Boom, boom, boom, boom,” he recalled.
Sirk dropped from the ladder and ran to the back of the house. He peered out at the gun battle on the street. He pushed on the back door. It was locked.
“Open the door for me, please!” he shouted, pounding on it.
A teenage boy opened the door.
The child’s mother was standing inside with her hands up, praying.
Capps slammed on his brakes and unlatched the AR-15 rifle he kept anchored between the two front seats. Throwing open the door, he got out and, crouching, made his way to the back of his vehicle.
Positioned on one knee, he raised his rifle to his shoulder and took aim. Directly in front of him, about 30 yards away, he saw Farook standing just outside the driver's side door firing at officers.
Capps let off several rounds and then turned his attention to the gunfire coming from the back seat of the SUV.
Time collapsed in on itself. Seconds could have been hours.
A deafening gunshot erupted next to his ear. Another officer had rushed up behind him and was firing directly over his shoulder. When the officer ran out of ammunition, he fell back and another arrived to let off another barrage.
Bullets smashed into homes and parked cars, shattering windows.
Overhead, two officers circled in a police helicopter. In the deluge of 911 calls, someone had mistakenly reported seeing a third person running from the SUV into a nearby alley.
“Forty-King, you on this frequency?” a dispatcher asked over the radio, trying to summon the helicopter’s pilot.
“My partner is transitioned in the back seat with an M-4 rifle.... I’m going to be flying the helicopter and working the radios all at the same time,” the pilot said.
Shaun Wallen, a deputy with the San Bernardino Sheriff’s Department, had pulled his car past Capps to his left and taken a position closer to the SUV.
Koahou, the undercover officer who had flagged Capps down, took the scene in from farther back. He worried that Wallen was too exposed. He decided to bring the deputy back to a safer position.
After an exchange of gunfire with Farook, Koahou made his move. He ran toward Wallen.
Farook was now face down in the street, blood pooling around his body. Malik was continuing to fire.
As he ran, Koahou stumbled and fell. He felt like someone had punched him hard in the thigh.
“I looked down at my leg and saw there was a bullet hole in it,’ Koahou recalled.
Officer Nicholas Koahou leaves the lectern after speaking to reporters. (Marcus Yam / Los Angeles Times)
Over the roar of the gunfire, Capps heard the shouts of “officer down!” Trying to block out the torrent of questions and fears that rose up in his mind — How bad are they hurt? Is it one of my guys? — he knew he had to keep his rifle trained on the SUV.
“We need medical aid!” a San Bernardino officer radioed to a dispatcher.
Hearing the frantic call for help, the pilot of a rescue helicopter circled nearby asking for an exact location so he could land.
A few officers quickly formed a plan and moved out from cover into the open street together to rescue Koahou, who was pinned down. The officers brought Koahou back behind the patrol cars. Not seriously hurt, Koahou refused to leave the scene.
“It’s Officer Koahou, he’s code four,” an officer reported to the pilot over the radio. “We do not need to extract him.”
Capps reflected afterward on the rescue.
“It made me feel very proud and it made me feel very safe, for lack of a better term, in the middle of all that,” he said. “I knew we were all taking care of each other out there.”
It is unclear how long the gunfight lasted. Capps’ best guess is about five minutes. But at some point it became clear the gunfire coming from the SUV had stopped. Capps spotted SWAT teams in armored vehicles coming down the wide street.
“Hold your fire!” officers yelled at others who were continuing to shoot.
Malik’s lifeless body lay in the back seat of the bullet-riddled SUV. Farook was dead across the street.
Investigators would tally 380 bullets fired by 23 officers or deputies. Farook and Malik, meanwhile, shot about 75 times.
Scenes from shootout's aftermath. ( KTLA)
Still on his knee, Capps rose to his feet. He stretched his body, marveling that his vehicle had been hit by only two bullets.
He checked his phone. There was a text message his adult daughter had sent during the firefight.
"Watching news. They just showed a graphic shot of one of the suspects down."
"I was in that shootout," Capps texted back. "I'm OK."
Contact the reporters.
Times staff writer Phil Willon contributed to this report.
Timeline: Following the chase
10:59 a.m. An “active shooter” is reported at the Inland Regional Center. “He’s still firing rounds.”
11:00 a.m Police are told to look for a gunman in the parking lot “with a machine gun.”
11:05-11:06 a.m Over the radio, officers hear that a gunman fled in a “black SUV north on Waterman.”
About 11:40 a.m. Police first identify Syed Farook as a possible suspectnoting: “he matches the physical of one of the shooters.”
11:42 a.m. Police describe attackers as two male shooters with ski masks and vests.
2:56 p.m. Undercover San Bernardino police at a Redlands address tied to Farook see a black SUV drive by slowly. “We’re trying to catch up.”
2:57 p.m. Police request help from a sheriff’s helicopter to track the SUV, last seen near Tennessee and State streets.
2:58 p.m. Officers wait at the 10 Freeway and Tennessee Street to keep watch for the vehicle.
3:03 p.m. Six miles away in San Bernardino, a dark-colored SUV flees police. Authorities ultimately determine it was not related to the shooting.
3:08 p.m. Officers announce they’re in pursuit of the suspects in Redlands. “We got shots fired out of the back window.”
3:10 p.m. The SUV is stopped on San Bernardino Avenue. “We need a Bearcat. [An armored vehicle.] We need medical aid.”
3:12-3:13 p.m. Officers announce: “We can see one guy down and there’s one guy in the back of the car.”
3:14 p.m. Over the radio, an officer says the person inside the car is also “down.”
* 3:15 p.m. Police say one officer has been wounded by a ricochet bullet, but wave off a medical evacuation by helicopter.
More on the San Bernardino Mass Shooting
Shooting updates: The latest on the investigation and aftermath
San Bernardino shooting suspect appeared to be living 'American Dream,' co-workers say
‘We have an active shooter, we need an entry team now’
Amid Farook family violence, brothers were a study in contrasts
by stickdog99 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:26 am
by SonicG » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:32 am
It is unclear how long the gunfight lasted. Capps’ best guess is about five minutes. But at some point it became clear the gunfire coming from the SUV had stopped. Capps spotted SWAT teams in armored vehicles coming down the wide street.
“Hold your fire!” officers yelled at others who were continuing to shoot.
Malik’s lifeless body lay in the back seat of the bullet-riddled SUV. Farook was dead across the street.
Investigators would tally 380 bullets fired by 23 officers or deputies. Farook and Malik, meanwhile, shot about 75 times.
by SonicG » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:33 am
stickdog99 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:26 pm wrote:Billy Sirk supposedly saw a woman in the back seat shooting at the police from his tree perch. He's the only witness I have seen (other than the one cop the story quotes) who said he ever saw Tashfeen so much as use a gun.
The LA Times even dressed Billy up in his work gear and had him climb back up there for his photo op!
by Elvis » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:51 am
by Luther Blissett » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:14 am
Nordic » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:54 pm wrote:Burnt Hill » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:41 pm wrote:SonicG » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:30 pm wrote:Burnt Hill » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:49 am wrote:Is there any chance this is really a picture of the couple?
…
And does this website have any credibility at all anyway?-
http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2015/12/syed-rizwan-farook-wife-tashfeen-malik-planned-attack/
Don't know but there is absolutely no source for that photo...
The website credits it to "social media".
No source- so does that suggest it is "planted" info?
I'd say what was planted was everything else.
I don't know if that photo is of the two victim/patsies or not. But to say it was "planted" while everything else were being told about these poor bastards was what was really planted seems kind of odd.
Why would anyone plant a picture such as this? Assuming we're using the word "plant" with the same meaning and negative connotations.
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