Flint Water Crisis Timeline

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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:42 am

Ok, Burnt Hill, you are unnecessarily being vague. 1, What is your point? 2, Please be specific. 3, Facts can't be cheapened.

Every time I have asked you to specifically identify what it is I've written you find objection to, you've avoided ever doing so. Why?

I am not the brightest fellow, you know, and I write poorly, even though I try my best not to. I'd be more than willing to clarify anything I'm able to to be better understood, so why not help me? You have no idea how hard I have to struggle to find the right words, or what I think are the right words to, relate my feelings accurately.

At this point in time, you're only being offensive and that's just mean. If I do not understand something I've written as conflation with another issue, why not show me, so I can learn not to do that.

If you have any comment that could stimulate rather than stifle discussion on the topic I've written about or in response to your earlier comment, or about any of the information found at the links I provided, I'd sure appreciate hearing from you about that.

I still want you to clarify your first line in your previous post:

I mean sure, join in the fun, pick a side if you must.


Conflate much?
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:39 am

Flint hospital reports finding Legionnaires' bacteria in water
By Ralph Ellis, CNN
Updated 10:20 PM ET, Fri January 22, 2016

McLaren Hospital in Flint said it has taken corrective measures with its water supply
The hospital noticed an increase in Legionnaires' cases after the city switched its water supply
(CNN)A hospital in Flint, Michigan, reported Friday that low levels of Legionnaires' disease bacteria were discovered in its water system.

The discovery came after the city switched its water supply and the medical staff noticed an increase in people coming in for treatment who were diagnosed with Legionnaires,' McLaren Hospital said.

Legionnaires' disease is a respiratory bacterial infection usually spread through mist that comes from a water source.

McLaren Hospital said it has taken corrective measures with its water supply.

All testing shows the hospital water supply "is well within safety and quality standards," the hospital statement said, and no tests show McLaren was the source of Legioinnaires' disease.

The hospital report is the latest negative news about the Flint water supply and the second piece of news about Legionnaires' disease.

About two years ago, the state ordered the city to switch its water supply from Lake Huron to the Flint River as a money-saving measure.

After high levels of iron and lead were found in the water, authorities realized they had a crisis on their hands.

Residents began drinking bottled water and using water filters. The governor apologized to citizens. The National Guard was called in.

EPA slams response by city and state

Then Gov. Rick Snyder announced a spike in the number of cases of Legionnaires' disease in Genesee County as a whole in the two years since the Flint water supply switch.

From June 2014 to November 2015, at least 87 county residents developed Legionnaires' disease, compared to between six and 13 cases in the four preceding years, said Nick Lyon, director of the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services. Ten patients died, he said.

But Lyon said there's not necessarily a cause-and-effect and that it would be nearly impossible to say the water switch caused the spike, partly because not all the people who got Legionnaires' were exposed to Flint water. He said further testing will be ordered.

The hospital said it noticed an increase in Legionnaires' cases coming to McLaren, plus the communitywide increase, after the water supply switch.

The hospital began "aggressively" testing its water supply and an early test result indicated the presence of a low level of legionella, the statement said.

The hospital said it installed a secondary water disinfectant system throughout the entire facility at a cost of $300,000 and also installed lead filters on water and ice machines.

"It is important to note that no tests have ever determined that McLaren is the source of exposure for any patients testing positive for the legionella antigen, and that there is no definitive data to support that McLaren Flint is the source of exposure for any patient testing positive for the legionella antigen," the statement said.


Michigan cooperative, confrontational with US on Flint water
Associated Press Friday, January 22, 2016

The Associated Press

Vehicles make their way through downtown Flint, Mich., Thursday, Jan. 21, 2016. Residents in the former auto-making hub — a poor, largely minority city — feel their complaints about lead-tainted water flowing through their taps have been slighted by the government or ignored altogether. For many, it echoes the lackluster federal response to New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina in 2005. (AP Photo/Paul Sancya)

DETROIT — Michigan's top environmental officer was by turns cooperative and confrontational with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Friday, pledging to work together to ensure the safety of Flint's drinking water but challenging the legality and scope of some federal demands.

In a letter to U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Gina McCarthy, Michigan Department of Environmental Quality Director Keith Creagh wrote that the state "is committed to working" with her department and Flint to deal with the city's lead-contamination problem. But he said the state has "legal and factual concerns" with an EPA order a day earlier taking state and city officials to task for their efforts so far and requiring them to take specific actions.

Creagh said Michigan "has complied with every recent demand" of the EPA and that Thursday's federal order "does not reference the tens of millions of dollars expended by ... the state for water filters, drinking water, testing and medical services."

"The order demands that the state take certain actions, but fails to note that many of those actions ... have already been taken," Creagh, who recently replaced an official who resigned over the water crisis, wrote in his required response to the EPA order.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:46 am


http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-david ... ints-water


......

It was. That sample had come from the house of Lee Anne Walters. The water from her taps was orange. Her twin four-year-old boys were sick—one of them weighed only twenty-seven pounds. Her daughter’s hair was falling out, and so were her own eyelashes. She had insisted that the city test her water and, after she got a doctor’s letter, it did. The water measured a hundred and five p.p.b. When it was retested, it measured almost four hundred p.p.b. The city suggested that she hook up a hose and use her next-door neighbor’s water instead; the problem must be her house. She tracked down Del Toral, by looking up the E.P.A.’s phone number and calling. Del Toral repeated his warnings and began working with residents and speaking out. At the same time, Walters started going to town meetings, as did other residents. A group of researchers from Virginia Tech, led by professor Marc Edwards, began to do what the city and state had so avoided: asking whether the water was truly safe. One of the samples they took recorded a level of 13,200 p.p.b.: lead soup.

.....

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:40 am

Iamwhomiam » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:42 am wrote:Ok, Burnt Hill, you are unnecessarily being vague. 1, What is your point? 2, Please be specific. 3, Facts can't be cheapened.

Every time I have asked you to specifically identify what it is I've written you find objection to, you've avoided ever doing so. Why?

I am not the brightest fellow, you know, and I write poorly, even though I try my best not to. I'd be more than willing to clarify anything I'm able to to be better understood, so why not help me? You have no idea how hard I have to struggle to find the right words, or what I think are the right words to, relate my feelings accurately.

At this point in time, you're only being offensive and that's just mean. If I do not understand something I've written as conflation with another issue, why not show me, so I can learn not to do that.

If you have any comment that could stimulate rather than stifle discussion on the topic I've written about or in response to your earlier comment, or about any of the information found at the links I provided, I'd sure appreciate hearing from you about that.

I still want you to clarify your first line in your previous post:

I mean sure, join in the fun, pick a side if you must.


Conflate much?


You are a good guy Iamwhomiam.
We have a different ways of communicating, and don't seem to get each other, that's okay!
I don't object to any content you have written, its your logic I find frustrating.
If you don't post specifically about Watkins Glen, that doesn't mean you don't care, I know that!
And I don't expect you to!
If I don't post about Hoosick Falls, it doesn't mean I don't care about it, you should know that!!

Expecting one issue to be addressed when a different one is being discussed is combining two separate issues(doesn't matter they have similarities), and where the conflation occurs. Expecting them to be considered equally at this point is faulty logic. But it is no big deal to me and I might not even have mentioned if I did not appreciate you, as you do bring up important issues That I too care about.

And the statement you want clarified. You had just posted during a bit of a spat, and mentioned said spat-
"Join(ing) the fun" as it were.
"Pick a side if you must"-(between SLaD and KM)- perfectly fine, makes sense if you do!

And then I tried to point out (poorly?) the conflation of issues I found illogical.
Please forgive me for being mean, offensive and stifling. Never my intent.

Now tell me how you feel about mandatory minimum sentences. :wink
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:58 am

You are evasive, Burnt Hill. Thanks for your help. My logic is flawed for adding another story about a community being poisoned to this thread. OK, sure. Must be absolutely bizarre I though it too could be discussed here. In a thread about poisoned public water.

You do realize you could have instead more kindly suggested I begin another thread.

I also asked slad if she objected to keeping such stories together, but she didn't. How many thread should we have discussing people being poisoned by their public water supply?

My logic is flawed by believing you would be helpful. I have no more regarding my contribution to this thread to discuss with you.
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:50 am

How many thread should we have discussing people being poisoned by their public water supply?


well if they were fascists being poisoned we could do about 15 threads :P
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby Burnt Hill » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:56 pm

Iamwhomiam » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:58 am wrote:You are evasive, Burnt Hill. Thanks for your help. My logic is flawed for adding another story about a community being poisoned to this thread. OK, sure. Must be absolutely bizarre I though it too could be discussed here. In a thread about poisoned public water.

You do realize you could have instead more kindly suggested I begin another thread.

I also asked slad if she objected to keeping such stories together, but she didn't. How many thread should we have discussing people being poisoned by their public water supply?

My logic is flawed by believing you would be helpful. I have no more regarding my contribution to this thread to discuss with you.


That's an unusual response to someone who just repeatedly praised you and explained unemotionally the exact phrase you asked me to explain, and unequivocally apologized for the things you took to be ugly about my post.

If I had asked you to start another thread, (which most anyone would do when they find their important point being missed in a thread with a different topic) it seems you would have reacted the same way you did to my post as it stands. No?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflation
This thread is about The Flint Water Crisis. Not a mega water poisoning thread.
I am not discouraged that no one has mentioned LP Gas Storage in dangerous salt caverns in Watkins Glen, NY, it could potentially dilute an important thread about a current national crisis. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy

Still wondering how you feel about mandatory minimum sentences though. Are you being evasive, or should I not expect you to be helpful?

Or is it possible you haven't noticed my question posted three times now?
Or maybe you just haven't got to it yet?
Expectations are a two way street.
:wink
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:32 pm

http://www.salon.com/2016/01/23/the_tru ... c_reforms/
Slamming the Overton Window Shut on Democracy

If that sounds sleazy, it’s only because it is. But it’s part of a much, much bigger picture. At the time the bill was signed into law, Andy Kroll of Mother Jones wrote about its back story: the state think tank that largely shaped the law, and the funders behind it:

Since 2005, the Mackinac Center for Public Policy has urged reforms to Michigan law giving more power and protection to emergency financial managers…. In January, the free-market-loving center published four recommendations, including granting emergency managers the power to override elected officials (such as a mayor or school board member) and toss out union contracts. All four ended up in Snyder’s legislation.

Kroll went on to identify some of Mackinac’s backers, including the foundations of Charles Koch, the Walton and DeVos families, and the parents of Blackwater founder Erik Prince, among others. He also noted that Mackinac is part of network of state-level think tanks associated with the Heritage Foundation.

What he didn’t note was that Mackinac was where the idea of the “Overton Window” comes from—a simplified model for organizing people to consistently shift the framework of policy debate in a given ideological direction. Italian Marxist Antonio Gramsci first developed the broad conceptual notion of hegemonic warfare—the struggle of ideologies to establish themselves as “common sense.” Despite decades of discussion, the American left—for a variety of reasons—has never managed to seriously assimilate his insight, and organize around it. But coming out of Mackinac, a sizable portion of the right has done just that, conceiving the struggle as a long-term process of shifting the framework of “reasonable” ideas so that crazy ideas they love become acceptable, while normal, time-tested ideas they hate become crazy. Whether a given “solution” actually works or not is immaterial in this model. In practice, failure is a feature, not a bug: it can be seized on to urge an even further shift in their preferred direction.

Which is a pretty good description of what’s been happening with emergency managers and their schemes in Michigan. They’ve been failing in terms of poor preparation of emergency managers and abuse of power, as Chris Savage, owner of Eclectablog described for the Nation in early 2012. or in terms of how badly things actually turn out on the ground, as Laura Gottesdiener described here at Salon last June (“Something is rotten in Michigan”), providing a tour of five of the state’s major emergency manager disasters. One could add to her list the Detroit Public School system, which Eclectablog recently noted had seen its deficits rise under state-appointed managers from $137.1 million in 2009 to $238.2 million today. But the most basic failure is the one alluded to by Flint’s former Mayor Dayne Walling—the failure of trying to fix long-term systemic problems by treating them as if they were episodic local ones, the results of mismanagement and bad policy. “The laws right now are written to mete out punishment to local officials,” Walling said, “but there need to be clear partnership requirements for the state to address fiscal stress.”

There’s a fundamental clash of worldviews going on here, between a cooperative, reality-based problem-solving approach on the one hand—all aspects of America’s pragmatic tradition—and a moralistic crusade against designated culprits singled out for their supposed roles in causing trouble for everyone else, a hallmark of how Dixiefied politics works.

Walling presented this chart showing steady state revenues and falling local police services from 2003 through 2013. Eclectablog explained, “The number of police officers was chosen as a local metric because cutting police and fire fighters is the last resort local municipalities turn to when cutting their budgets.” Obviously, if local police were being cut statewide it made zero sense to accuse individual cities of fiscal irresponsibility, and deprive of them of self-government as a solution. A chart using census bureau data showed similar trends.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:10 pm

Flint Hospital Suspected River, Legionnaires' Outbreak Link
By ED WHITE, ASSOCIATED PRESS DETROIT — Jan 23, 2016, 5:34 PM ET

The head of a Flint hospital that found Legionnaires' disease bacteria in its water system more than a year ago said he and experts suspected the Flint River was a likely source of the contaminant.

Don Kooy, president of McLaren hospital, said he was surprised that Michigan and local health agencies didn't inform the public about a Legionnaires' outbreak in Genesee County in 2014-15 until just a few weeks ago.

The outbreak occurred while Flint residents were repeatedly complaining about dirty tap water coming from the river — a crisis that ultimately caused exposure to lead and other health problems.

"It's a public health issue," Kooy told The Associated Press. "There were people in the city of Flint seeing brown water. It would seem logical that there would have been public reporting or public awareness about the Legionella situation."

At least 87 Legionnaires' cases, including nine deaths, were confirmed across Genesee County during a 17-month period. Public officials say they haven't determined if Flint River water was responsible.

Legionnaires' is a type of pneumonia. The bacteria live in the environment and thrive in warm water. People can get sick if they inhale mist or vapor from contaminated water systems, hot tubs and cooling systems.

Kooy said two cases could have been related to exposure to Legionella bacteria found in the hospital. He said "it's very difficult to know" when a patient is exactly exposed but both patients were successfully treated.

"We were concerned that the city water was the source of it," Kooy said, "but to this day I don't think we could make a definitive statement."

McLaren hospital spent more than $300,000 on a water treatment system and also turned to bottled water for patients.

"The change in (Flint) water quality was a likely factor in causing the increase in Legionnaires' disease" in Genesee County, said Janet Stout, a Pittsburgh microbiologist and Legionella expert who advised the hospital.

In April 2015, Laurel Garrison, a Legionnaires' specialist at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, told state officials by email that the outbreak deserved a "comprehensive investigation."

In an email three months earlier, Jim Collins, the head of Michigan's Communicable Disease Division, said the number of cases at that time "likely represents the tip of the iceberg."

Nonetheless, there was no public announcement at that time.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby Burnt Hill » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:24 am

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/entertainment/music/2016/01/22/pearl-jam-donates-flint-water-crisis/79173162/


Pearl Jam donates $300,000 to Flint water crisis

Adam Graham, The Detroit News 1:48 p.m. EST January 22, 2016

The rock band also launched an online fundraising campaign to help assist the Flint community.

Pearl Jam has jumped on board in the aid to help Flint with its water crisis.

On Friday, the rock band pledged $125,000 to the United Way of Genesee County, according to a release from the band’s management. Additionally, a network of the group’s friends and partners — including Live Nation, the group’s record label Republic Records, Universal Music Publishing Group, William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, Glaser Progress Foundation, Brandi Carlile’s Looking Out Foundation and the group’s one-time foes Ticketmaster — chipped in an additional $175,000, bringing the total donation to $300,000.

The band has also launched a CrowdRise campaign for fans to donate money to Flint through the website crowdrise.com/pearljam.

Funds will go toward the United Way of Genesee County’s Flint Water Fund, which aids in both the short- and long-term needs of the Flint community.

Earlier this week, Big Sean also launched a CrowdRise campaign to help those in Flint.

agraham@detroitnews.com
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:56 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es1mKyZDfFU

I'll swallow poison, until I grow immune
I will scream my lungs out till it fills this room
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby Burnt Hill » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:17 am

Pearl Jam, great! With Ben Harper? Wow!
Do you have Diamonds on the Inside?
I mean, I know you do SLaD.... :wink
But the album by Ben Harper?
Its really good!
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:29 am

Dozens of GoFundMe accounts raising money for Flint water crisis
POSTED 8:04 AM, JANUARY 24, 2016, BY CNN WIRE

FLINT, Mich. – People who want to help Flint, Michigan, cope with its water crisis are flocking to GoFundMe to create campaigns and donate money.
More than 5,000 donors had given over $200,000 to more than 65 campaigns by Saturday afternoon.

The money will go toward things like purchasing bottles of water, water filters and even bags of fresh fruit and vegetables.
One account is even raising money to offset the costs incurred by the Virginia Tech researchers who first tested the water and found unsafe levels of lead.
Many of the campaigns even plan to deliver the water themselves to those who can’t make it to distribution sites.
In response to the outpouring of support, GoFundMe itself is making its own contribution — the campaign that raises the most money will get an extra $10,000.
The contest period started Friday and will last until January 29.

Dan Pfeiffer, GoFundMe’s director of communications, said the purpose of the contest was to stage a friendly competition among the campaigns and encourage them to raise more money.
On Saturday afternoon, the campaign to beat was the “Water Aid for Flint, MI,” which raised more than $47,000 in 15 days.
Pfeiffer said this is the first time GoFundMe has held a donation-raising contest since its founding in 2010.
It’s not the first time the company has given to campaigns, however. After the shootings in San Bernardino, the company gave a gift of $10,000 to a crowdfunding effort started by the city’s mayor.
The $10,000 is GoFundMe’s response to charitable campaigns that have asked it to waive the 5% fee it charges on every donation. (GoFundMe won’t be waiving the fee.)
“We’ve already seen a huge uptick in donations since we started the contest,” Pfeiffer said.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby Karmamatterz » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:19 am

Great idea, seems like that was suggested a few days ago.
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Re: Flint Water Crisis Timeline

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:22 am

it seems to have started 2 weeks ago.... :roll:


yes a great idea and you weren't the first to think of it

location of groceries stores in Flint.......

Image


Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
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Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
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