The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squander

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The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squander

Postby bks » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:57 am

WRex:

Curious if anyone has heard a plausible case for optimism, curious if anyone thinks a strategy of continuing to build popular support and juxtapose that against Clinton's corporate ties could erode Clinton's poll numbers enough to make her actually toxic.


He's accomplished something enormous: he's run an insurgent campaign inside one of the two major parties that actually attracted about half of those in the party's orbit to him (I'm including independents who are left of the Democrats and who don't vote for Republicans, but who reliably or at least often give in to the lesser evilism blackmail, like me).

He's got an email list of many millions, heavy on millenials, hundreds of thousands or millions of whom have reached into their pockets to financially support him. His database is the most coveted prize of the entire cycle. Clinton's DNCers would kill their children for unfettered access to it, because the party's future prospects are intimately tied to the party's ability to appeal to those within it.

Crucially, Sanders has an invitation from the Green party to head their ticket. If he did, he'd bring those millions with him, effectively doing what every third party in the US for decades has been unable to do: build a fundraising and communications base for an entity that truly threatens the duopoly. Even more deliciously, he will have done it by hijacking the party system and defeating the media blackout of smaller parties. They'd raise millions for his run, and he'd almost certainly surpass the threshold for matching funds for next cycle running in the tens of millions.

IT'S ALL RIGHT THERE for him. HE'S DONE THE WORK. If he simply folds that effort back into trying to nominate Hillary Clinton, it's not just a failure, but a monumental, tectonic, generation-crushing failure. He has a clear choice, one he's enormous lucky to face: join with the Greens and make US history, or endorse Clinton, and deposit himself into it's dustbin that second.

So sad he's just a flawed gradualist that lacks real courage.
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:14 am

Or he never was an insurgent to begin with...
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby Burnt Hill » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:18 am

Wouldn't this guarantee a Trump presidency?
I read somewhere Trump is encouraging a Sanders independent run.
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby bks » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:21 am

Notice I didn't say he was. I said he ran an insurgent campaign, which he did. Which he really had to, if he wanted to garner any attention.

He prob ran with multiple purposes and goals, but no one will be surprised or fooled if he goes full sheepdog. He's never suggested anything else. And he's looking pretty shaggy these days.

But Yogi Berra hasn't sung yet. There's time to show guts yet.
Last edited by bks on Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby bks » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:27 am

Burnt Hill » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:18 am wrote:Wouldn't this guarantee a Trump presidency?
I read somewhere Trump is encouraging a Sanders independent run.



Maybe not. There may be a sweet spot around 5-7% of the vote where he earns millions in matching funds for the Greens and she still wins.

Honestly I can't care about that. Trump is a vile piece of shit who hasn't killed anyone yet, and who every part of this society will and should work against if in office. I'd never vote for him. But HRC has earned every bit of the contempt she draws herself.

A win for Hillary means an undying supply of Trumps will continue springing up. I'm done with the blackmail. If the DNC doesn't want Trump let them nominate Sanders. If they nominate Clinton, then they're telling you they don't want to avert the risk of Trump as best they can (which is Sanders).
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby Project Willow » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:40 am

He has back tracked lately on supporting Clinton, the line now is that he will do whatever he can to make sure a Republican doesn't get into the white house. His base definitely wants to remain organized going forward and push down ballot progressives, but nobody can agree on whether to join the Greens, form a new party, or try to take over the Dems., typical left factionalism and political inexperience at work. The majority seem to favor forming a new party, mostly I think because the birdie logo is so cute :eeyaa . Meanwhile, former staffers and volunteers have formed a PAC, Brand New Congress, in order to take over congress by the 2018 midterms.

https://brandnewcongress.org/

RAP's Bernie or Bust pledge has (apparently) over 90,000 signatures, what happens to that database after the convention? https://citizensagainstplutocracy.wordpress.com/ There are nearly 10 change.org petitions for Bernie to run as an independent. If all this energy isn't coalesced and directed into effective action, you are right, it will be an utter waste.

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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:26 pm

That definitely deserved a new thread, good call. (No sarcasm, cogent commentary in that OP.)

I've seen the tenor of "How Bernie Can Still Win" change completely in the past week, both locally and in the lesser 49, from "It's All About the Convention" to "Bernie Must File as Independent ASAP." Honestly, though, I don't think anyone close to Bernie will be advocating for that. I hope I'm wrong -- it's not just about the future of the United States, my entertainment is at stake, here.

Trump advocating for precisely this might have been one of them "linguistic killshots" Scott Adams is always fanboy hyperventilating over. Now it would look like a concession to Trump, most especially since all major media outlets would spin it that way.
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby zangtang » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:41 pm

good to see you putting your personal entertainment before the safety & security of you countr - naay, the whole of The Free World I say....
- which is of course not only your right but your patriotic duty......
pleasingly wrapped in a poetic metaphor,
disguised as a metaphysical snapshot.
in a Haiku, over-extended,
somewhat.
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby bks » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:14 pm

It's not just about the future of the United States, my entertainment is at stake, here.


Got a good laugh out of that, because it's pretty true over here as well. I'm not ready to turn off the set yet. I need the new season to drop :tongout

Hashtag?

#I'MGREENWITHBERNIE ?
#BERNIES3RDWAY ?
#FINDTHESTONESBERNIE
#DROPHILLFORJILL ?

Think I'll try the last one.
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby MayDay » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:32 pm

I'm glad you guys are amused by this. Humor is the best medicine, my favorite cliche because it's so true. As Robert Anton Wilson loved to point out, it's the difference between swimming happily in the mystic waters and drowning in them.

I'm not laughing. I'm finding myself in a position I've never been in- caring deeply about a presidential candidate that actually has a shot at winning. I will leave the country indefinitely/ for good if he endorses Clinton. It would be a total betrayal of the millions who have supported him and poured their usually meager monetary excesses into his campaign. It would set us back ten years at least, in terms of the progress we've made, or at least that's my takeaway. I hope I'm wrong. I hope he goes green, announces Jill Stein as his running mate, begins promoting local activist heros for positions of power. This would put him in the Oval Office almost definitely, and would certainly prompt millions to engage in civil disobedience/ direct action on a mass scale if they tried to rig the election in favor of Clinton/ trump.
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:38 pm

Over the past two months Bernie has been raising more than a million a day; $42 million in February and $45 million in March.

He's raised $186 million to Hillary's $263 million.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/election-2016-campaign-money-race.html
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby bks » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:59 pm

Iamwhomiam » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:38 pm wrote:Over the past two months Bernie has been raising more than a million a day; $42 million in February and $45 million in March.

He's raised $186 million to Hillary's $263 million.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/election-2016-campaign-money-race.html


Imagine that money coming into a 3rd party for the next few months, and then afterward to fund Green candidates against weak Democrats or Republicans in local elections and federal Congressional races. Instant political shakeup on a tea-party sized scale at minimum.
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby bks » Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:13 pm

MayDay » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:32 pm wrote:I'm glad you guys are amused by this. Humor is the best medicine, my favorite cliche because it's so true. As Robert Anton Wilson loved to point out, it's the difference between swimming happily in the mystic waters and drowning in them.

I'm not laughing. I'm finding myself in a position I've never been in- caring deeply about a presidential candidate that actually has a shot at winning. I will leave the country indefinitely/ for good if he endorses Clinton. It would be a total betrayal of the millions who have supported him and poured their usually meager monetary excesses into his campaign. It would set us back ten years at least, in terms of the progress we've made, or at least that's my takeaway. I hope I'm wrong. I hope he goes green, announces Jill Stein as his running mate, begins promoting local activist heros for positions of power. This would put him in the Oval Office almost definitely, and would certainly prompt millions to engage in civil disobedience/ direct action on a mass scale if they tried to rig the election in favor of Clinton/ trump.


It's not that's it's amusing, MD. For me it's more a recognition of how the trivial and the "meta" attend even the most serious of matters in US public life. It's the realization that every single thing served up in the mass cultural sphere can be, and is in some respects DESIGNED to be, consumed as an entertainment product - even when the substance of the thing may determine the future direction of the country.

It's deadly serious, but it's ALSO a horse race/football game both in the mode of its presentation to the society and in the ways it can be consumed. It's the triumph of the public relations attitude: if you can create an audience for something, then that audience ought to be created. Doesn't matter what it is, because the creation of audiences is an end in itself in a world where all communication emanating from corporate media is first and foremost a commodity.
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby MayDay » Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:56 pm

Absolutely. Clintron pummels Sanders! Grab the popcorn and the Bud!
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Re: The Genuinely Historic Opportunity Sanders is abt 2 Squa

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:42 pm

I am not certain what the right strategy is.

Any scenario wherein Sanders wins in 2016 is good.

My feeling is that Sanders as a third runner in this election means he loses & gets blamed forever for Trump. (Or for Clinton barely winning but not getting Congress, etc.) This will discredit third party politics. It will reinforce the two parties. It will split the left along the wrong lines.

(Then again, what if he beats Clinton? That would be hot. Just not happening.)

I'm hoping for a robust effort to build a third party starting Jan 2017, run in everything, build towards a genuinely democratic selection process in 2020.

Sucks. What else. Minus organizing, all meaningless.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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