China Kills Millions of Meditators for their Organs

[Novem5er]

When i first read the headline I used in the title of this thread, my thought was "What's a meditator? Some sort of fish?" I've heard the Chinese like rare animal parts, so that is what I expected.

No. The meditators in question are human beings, arrested for being members of the Falun Gong group/cult. They are arrested and executed, supposedly, and their organs harvested by the State. This article isn't from some activist blog, but was published by the Independent from the UK.

Experts estimate between 60,000 and 100,000 prisoners of conscience are executed annually and have their hearts, livers and other organs removed to use for transplants.

In all, approximately 1.5 million have had their organs removed at 712 liver and kidney transplant centres across China since 2000, with over 300,000 of those taking place at unregulated centres.

The report also found many surgeons had simply “lost count” of the quantity of transplants they had been asked to perform on a daily basis, with some having undertaken as many as six liver removals in one day.

The findings were published in an updated version of the 2007 study ‘Bloody Harvest: Revised Report into Allegations of Organ Harvesting of Falun Gong Practitioners in China’.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-kills-millions-of-innocent-meditators-for-their-organs-report-finds-a7107091.html

Woof. That's pretty rough stuff. It could be total activist bunk, but supposedly the researchers have hundreds of documents to backup their claims. You be the judge.

edit: forgot the link!

[tapitsbo]

There were Canadian MPs discussing this more than a decade ago, and of course there are Falun Gong presentations in the street, in Canada, at least, about this.

There are also copious allegations about the organ trade being conducted by other states. One alleged witness in North America was later framed as a would-be "assassin" of Obama before he was let go.

Old RI threads on this topic are great, especially hava1 and AliceTheeKurious' contributions!

[Karmamatterz]

The report site: http://endorganpillaging.org/an-update/

They probably force the "accused" to sign a document admitting guilt and volunteer their organs in trade for limited or no retribution to their families. The full report is 680 pages.
http://endorganpillaging.org/wp-content ... -23-V2.pdf

[JackRiddler]

I have trouble buying into these numbers. Not that I wouldn't put it past them. Not that earlier incarnations of the same party and state did not engage in mass executions on an even greater scale, as recently as during the Cultural Revolution. China remains a party dictatorship, but it's also by comparison more open to examination.

It made me read the following two Wiki articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_p ... t_in_China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_har ... s_in_China

40,000 transplants a year does not sound like an incredible number that would need to be explained by uncounted executions of Falun Gong followers. I don't know what to believe. Maybe I'm just shocked.

[Harvey]

I wonder if China is exporting to the west? I have read of China using the organs of executed prisoners over the years, but like Jack, simply staggered by the scale of this. If this is true it does not bode well for China's treatment of official outsiders as it's influence grows. Then again, commerce does seem uniquely able to generate genocide, doesn't it?

Thinking back I would still read Coma from 1978 as a metaphor for Public Relations induced sleep while 'the body public' is picked clean.* A very acute predictive metaphor of how the medical industry was later to become a revolving door between agri-chem + industrial polluters creating many of the illnesses which big pharma and industrial med then treat with expensive 'cures' while insurance-industriale is overseeing every step of the process. A populace farmed from cradle to grave under the guise of "Freedom To Choose." Particularly neat since agri-chem and big pharma are pretty much the same entity.

Not so sure if the intent wasn't more literal after reading this...

*As well as the old preying on the young, but isn't that the essence of capital?

Edited for clarity.

[American Dream]

I have no particular love for the State generally, and definitely not in its Chinese form. Torture, killing, incarcerations and repression are common in the territory it controls and the Falun Gong adherents really are a big target.

That said, we really should take any particular claims with several grains of salt. It seems likely that Falun Gong in exile has been taken under Uncle Sam's wing to a significant degree. They may well be trafficking in the sort of disinformation that the U.S. State Department is known to support, despite the essential truth of their claims of being viciously repressed.

[Novem5er]

One thing to consider regarding the scale of these reported numbers, is how everything in China is just BIGGER due to their population. I did some quick division and found that 60,000 annual executions out of a 1.35 billion population is only about 0.0044%. or about 44 executions per every 10,000 citizens.

Those numbers are still very high compared to any other nation on earth, but we are talking about the largest totalitarian police state in human history.

According to google, China has a prison population of about 1.5 million inmates. At 60,000 executions, they'd be killing about 4% of their prison population every year. Is that number too high to believe, again, for the largest totalitarian police state in human history?

Of course these numbers aren't proof, and I don't "believe" the story myself 100% - BUT I think these calculations can address some of the sticker shock of those numbers! In China, they don't do anything small-scale.

[Karmamatterz]

Admittedly don't know a lot about Falun Gong. But is there some strong reason to believe that people that who organize around meditation and qigon breathing exercises have a nefarious tie to the U.S. gov? Anybody practicing yoga, qigong and meditation on a regular basis is generally not going to be a threat. Well, let me rephrase that. Big pharma, weight loss clinics, a few docs and a chunk of the entire fitness industry might feel threaten by people that practice those things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

[American Dream]

Falun Gong is a particular group that could fairly be called somewhat cultish. They do not have a franchise on Chi Gong in any way, but rather have a particular body of techniques. They represent a form of counter-power that Chinese officials seem to distrust, as they have tens of millions of followers.

The U.S. has protected there exiled leader and their paper- which seems to be very well funded- is always full of anti-chinese govt. invective that makes me think of similarly propagandistic material that one finds in aligned with State Dept. machinations in Latin America.

[stefano]

The numbers definitely sound spicy... 100,000 per year? That's 20 times the previous highest estimate I've seen, and 80 times total executions in all the other countries of the world combined. I think the Indy reporter might have misunderstood the Organ Harvesting people.

In October 2014, in an interview with The Toronto Star Gutmann did not limit the time frame to 2000 to 2008 and stated, "the number of casualties is close to 100,000".

And that 680-page monster PDF talks about that number of transplants, they don't say every 'donor' (source person? host?) is killed. The methodology of the thing is thin in the extreme - they work out how many transplants could be done at all hospitals, then imply (as far as I can make out) that entire figure is the number of organ harvests.

[comment on the state of journalism]

I think AD's right, as well. I just skimmed that PDF and there is no way three Canadians wrote that thing. Most of it is detail about different hospitals in China, translated from Chinese. The Chinese government says they're being used by Falun Gong, and of course any dissident group in China will receive help from US intelligence.

Quite sure it is happening though. Some of the details in that long thing are chilling.

My relative asked: ‘How much for the
operation?’ The doctor said: ‘It will cost 7,000 yuan.’ He added:
‘You are really lucky, because we will have a cornea tomorrow.’ I
asked: ‘Is it from a dead person, or someone else?’ He quickly
replied to me: ‘It’s good anyway.’”

Tang also related this: Because Lhasa is at an altitude of 3,600
meters: “In order to ensure the activity of the liver’s
hepatocytes, the extraction of the liver from the donor must take
place simultaneously with the removal of the bad liver from the
receiver. Otherwise, if the aircraft carrying the donor could not
fly from outside the region to Tibet on time due to bad weather -
and such situations in Tibet are quite common during the winter
- the consequences would be disastrous.”
According to this evidence, a living "donor" was killed - when
his/her liver was excised - at the same time as the recipient’s
bad liver was removed.

In September 2013, Zhu Jiye, director of the Organ Transplant Institute of Peking University and the
Department of Hepatobiliary Surgery of Peking University People’s Hospital told China Economic Weekly that
“most of our nation’s organ transplants come from executed prisoners. Our hospital conducted 4,000 liver
and kidney transplant operations within a particular year, and all of the organs are from prisoners sentenced
to death.”

Hebei Daily reported that, on April 7, 2011, vice president Liu Su of the Second Hospital of Hebei Medical University
led his expert group to perform a heart transplant for 13-year-old Hua Jiale.1462 The hospital found a matching child
donor for the patient in a week. The report made no mention of the child "donor." This case cannot be explained by
the sourcing of organs from executed prisoners.

The group of eight patients arrived at the Guangdong Province Border Patrol Armed Police Central Hospital in
Shenzhen on October 26 at 4:10 p.m. Professor Wei Gao gave a pre-surgery seminar that evening. The surgery
fee of $150,000 HKD in cash was collected from each patient. Some patients asked how the condemned
criminals were executed. Dr. Gao said they were not shot; rather, they were given two injections (one for
anesthetic and one painkiller) before the organs were taken. The total cost for the patient was about $29,000 USD, including “red envelope” money, airline ticket, etc. Mr.
J.C. stayed in China for only 3 days. The doctors in the hospital were all military doctors.

[Karmamatterz]

Even if it's 600 people who's organs were taken it's still sick and messed up. Yeah, lots of room for interpretation on those numbers though.

Had to chuckle at this though:

there is no way three Canadians wrote that thing

What? Canadians can't write very well? I know that wasn't your intent, but it came off as humorous.

So I guess now yoga, qigong and meditation groups are potential cultist....hmmm....cool! I was never aware that in all the years I've practiced yoga and meditation I could have been part of another group, especially a cult! I guess I was so brainwashed with the good feeling after my practice I lost all rational thought. Just when I thought I was making progress being a recovering Catholic too.

[Iamwhomiam]

The danger the Chinese leadership feel from Falun Gong is the same they feel from having a Dalai Lama in Tibet. Followers will look elsewhere for leaders to lead them. The same reason the US passed the Communist Control Act in 1954 soon after the execution of the Rosenbergs in '53.

I do not know the truth of the matter regarding the transplant use of the organs being taken from that many executed persons, but China sure does execute a great many people. Surely included in that number must be many innocent of any crime against the state, or of any crime whatsoever. It is most unlikely the organs would be healthy enough for transplant after traveling the time it takes to reach legal US transplant centers. Mexicans and disappeared First Nation Canadians are unfortunately more accessible and available for local illegal transplants. But India or the other SE Asian nations would be close enough and possible locations for transplanting legally or illegally, all still be many hours distant by air. And surely there are those of great wealth who live by their own law, and can obtain anything they need or want, by any means they desire, legal or not.

Remember, in the Orlando we had comments offered disbelieving the number of fatalities and wounded. (paraphrasing here> "He couldn't have killed that many, they said. "Not possible." (Personally, I feel it was possible though I don't deny the possibility of some were wounded or killed by the police or/and the FBI.) Large numbers are always shocking, some, in relationship to a particular topic, seem unbelievable, at least upon first learning. Take a look at our own numbers of executed by state, per 10,000 of general population. (Of course, excluding dangerous Mexican illegals ) Granted, they are not reflecting the number of transplants of organs taken from the bodies of executed criminals, but who knows how many of those actually occur? Anyway, take a look-see:
(sorry I do not have the skills to transfer the data into an image to post here)

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-execution-rates

[Karmamatterz]

The distance to fly the organs to North America might be too far, but that doesn't mean the recipient, if well enough, couldn't fly to China, Thailand, Japan, Korea, etc... Probably doesn't happen that much unless your stinkin' rich. If it really is happening.

[stefano]

What? Canadians can't write very well? I know that wasn't your intent, but it came off as humorous.

Ha, certainly not! I meant they very obviously channel large bits of research that come from Chinese people, and I presume those are Falun Gong members.

So I guess now yoga, qigong and meditation groups are potential cultist....hmmm....cool!

If you ask people in the control system, definitely. The real issue, as Iam mentioned, is that in the late 90s Falun Gong was influential enough to actually rival the Communist Party, thanks, I think, to an acknowledgement of man's propensity for the religious. Li Hongzhi's personal influence would also have been a serious issue. He's an interesting example of an almost-empty vessel instrumentalised by Western elites for foreign policy purposes btw. We basically don't know anything about him, but we know we like him!

[stefano]

The distance to fly the organs to North America might be too far, but that doesn't mean the recipient, if well enough, couldn't fly to China, Thailand, Japan, Korea, etc... Probably doesn't happen that much unless your stinkin' rich. If it really is happening.

From the stories in that report, foreigners who need organs go to the big Chinese cities and everything gets taken care of in under a week.