After School Satan

[divideandconquer]

This article is from 2013, but I find it interesting in light of these supposedly secular, "after school satan clubs" Keep in mind the following is pre "ASS"

Unmasking Lucien Greaves/ Doug Mesner Leader of the Satanic Temple

According to his former associate and friend, Shane Bugbee, The Satanic Temple began as a “filmmaker’s parody to lampoon outdated politics and to produce a future documentary.” Kinda like Joaquin Phoenix’s “crazy” rap years. According to Mesner/Greaves:

When the Satanic Temple was conceived, the idea was that a documentary would be assembled from the various actions we would perform to put a new spin on the entire Church/State debate.

The first act to be filmed was the Florida gathering:You can see how that might embarrass a real Satanist.

Anyway, sometime after its inception, the pretense converted into a religion, like Joaquin Phoenix really becoming a rap artist. According to Bugbee:

Spectacle Films, the production company behind The Satanic Temple paid me as a consultant. I am the person who laid the marketing groundwork for much of what you see and read in the news today regarding Lucien Greaves and his newfound religion, The Satanic Temple. Yes, I took their money, but that was to promote what was presented to me as a practical joke, a Satanic “Yes Men” style group making a mockery of the constant push to intertwine Church and State by Christian fanatics and kooks…

Initially, I was asked to take the role of Lucien Greaves, which I flatly refused. The group then hired an actor to portray “Lucien Greaves”, but when he did not work out, Doug stepped into the role, and suddenly the practical joke turned serious.

Doug was accepted to Harvard University. He used to call me, shocked that his professors were taking him to lunch and inviting him to meet with luminaries like Richard Dawkins. Doug’s studies at Harvard focused on neuroscience, and he began delving deeply—and sometimes dangerously, I felt—into the world of false memory related to ritual abuse and alien abduction, even exposing professional psychologists as culprits and forcing them to recant, retire, and even run.

But according to groups like S.M.A.R.T. (Stop Mind control And Ritual abuse Today),

Douglas Mesner has continued using insults and attacks against survivors of ritual abuse and the professionals that work with them. He has harassed and followed survivors and survivor advocates around the Internet for the last several years. Aliases have been used adding additional insults and name calling against survivors.

In order to combat a perceived epidemic of false memories, Mesner/Greaves founded an organization:

Mesner, [is] a co-administrator of the nascent False Memory Syndrome Action Network (currently an online-only resource for those negatively effected by Recovered Memory Therapies).

The following is from a post written by Bugbee.

I’ve become very skeptical of The Satanic Temple, its motives, and its owners. Two of the three behind The Satanic Temple have never been associated with Satanism or any occult group, nor do they appear to have any substantial achievements that can be credited with anything but buying their way in with their family’s money. Spectacle Films is rich kid Cevin Soling, Harvard graduate, director, producer, and the person pulling and paying for the strings of The Satanic Temple. Rich kid #2 is David Guinan, producer, director and creative director at Arise Media. My old pal Doug Mesner is a Harvard graduate who studied cognitive science…

Doug has unfortunately taken his cognitive science degree and started a collegiate debate he feels satisfied he could win time and time again, a debate that regards religion as needed by the human animal and claims Satanists “are doing good” – perhaps the goal all along was to form a cult, a cult that is positioned as an anti-cult cult…

Is starting a religion and/or becoming a filmmaker even a respectable use of that Harvard degree in cognitive science? Why would someone study the mind to then go and make films if their intent wasn’t a want of manipulation?

…I for one like my Satan with teeth, very sharp teeth, so, it’s embarrassing to read in the press, from Lucian Greaves aka Doug Mesner comments such as “as long as you are doing good” and even the use of words like “compassion” or “benevolence and empathy” when it comes to satan and Satanism…Who the f*** wants a kinder gentler satan? Sounds like double talk from a politician to me.

Bugbee’s summation:

I recall Doug Mesner telling me the C.I.A. had asked him to write some private reports for them, maybe in my most paranoid state I could run with and ramble about the possibilities there… More likely, The Satanic Temple is just the act of a group of social and career climbers using slick psychological marketing tricks in the tradition of Edward Bernays to meet their ends. But at the least, I think anyone could question and everyone should question the intent of a guy from wealth and without ties to the occult as to why he has decided to fund a Satanic religion while pulling the strings of a guy who has such a brilliant mind, who has studied the science of the mind at one of the top learning facilities in the world, and maybe, just maybe you could come up with the same conclusion I have, that The Satanic Temple has ulterior motives above and beyond helping mankind or making a movie.

[Wombaticus Rex]

My question to you is this: do you believe there is actual danger to drawing an inverted pentragram? Or maybe listening to a rock song where the Devil is cast in a positive light?

Depending on where, when and with what. On your cool denim jacket, probably not an issue. In the margins of a Mead notebook, a passing trifle.

In animal blood on a floor, now we're talking dangerously stupid.

Fortunately, the IP isn't even particularly powerful, esp compared to actual Enochian sigils.

Unfortunately, as the Simon Necronomicon has demonstrated, fakes are real out here in an entangled universe.

[82_28]

Oh yeah, as far as that story she didn't say "I want you to get nasty" she said "I want you to molest me" yes indeed. It was a long time ago clearly. But now I remember what she said. Good times. Good times. I think I finally chilled out when I read Sagan's A Demon Haunted World. But this shit is real for kids as they have so little to place their perceptions on.

In some ways thinking back she expanded a lot of shit about how I think about shit. I "became" an atheist and the youngest member of the Colorado Humanists. Seriously, I was the youngest member. Then I got sick of all the anger and conflicting views within society at large.

Speaking of which, we need an After School Sagan.

[guruilla]

Catching up.... 'Scuse the long & ponderous nature of this response, I seem to be in a even more "Saturnian" mood than usual.

what I'm saying is that just because a teenager drew pentagrams and listened to Slayer, in no way makes them any more likely to be a abusive sociopath than the football player who listened to Boys II Men or Nickleback.

... Hell, if there was anyone in school that was more likely to BECOME a ritual abuser, it'd be that same kid who tried to instill his fascist religion across society. Their ideology was not about love and Christ, it was about conformity and control, and rebels were to be bullied.

These are two separate questions: a) whether immersion in satanic materials increases a tendency towards abuse of power; b) who is more likely to be abusive, satanic rebels or christian jocks. The second question I'd say is an unnecessary and unhelpful polarization, since it's not either/or and since IMO every Satanist is a Christian in revolt, including, I would argue, the supposedly secular sort. It's not only unhelpful but I think it confuses the subject because it causes a polarization of accusations, Christians accuse Satanists, Satanists accuse Christians, ad infinitum, while people more on the fence defend one and accuse the other, as you are doing, leaving the more meaningful questions unaddressed.

The first question is one of the meaningful kind, and is stated even more clearly here:

My question to you is this: do you believe there is actual danger to drawing an inverted pentragram? Or maybe listening to a rock song where the Devil is cast in a positive light?

Here's my "by the book" answer: Geometrical shapes do have some inherent meaning (a mathematical one), but whatever value-based meaning they have as good or evil, blessings or curses, can only be the result of repeated use throughout the ages that has allowed them to become embedded in the collective unconscious in some way. They may then become like buttons that can be pushed, internal trigger, external stimulae. Even so, the intent behind using them varies & so the result would too. I am sure I have doodled hundreds of pentagrams, inverted & otherwise, without it having any consequences, except perhaps to reinforce that image in my mind; but this still leaves aside the reason why I felt compelled to draw the image. Most of the time the reason a kid draws a pentagram is not going to be neutral, precisely because of all the Christian indoctrination around Satanism. Totem & taboo are the twin pillars of society. The act is charged and this is why they are doing it in the first place (at least in the context we're discussing here).

IMO, kids who are feeling oppressed and powerless seek ways to feel powerful, and rebellion is one of the easiest and commonest ways, to whatever extent it's taken to and however much it uses satanic imagery, etc, etc. It's like asking whether marijuana leads to heroin. The answer is yes & no: it depends how deep the drives to experience an alternative perceptual reality (one closer to the unconscious) are in that person, and whether marijuana is enough to satisfy those drives or not.

Behind every rebellion is the bottomless rage of being powerless which comes from being abused, to whatever degree. So as soon as some power is gained, the rage can then begin to express itself as a way to gain more power (and to enact revenge for the experiences suffered). Isn't it the same rage behind a desire for teenage rebellion as behind an inclination for ritual sacrifice & murder?

Everybody has a desire to feel powerful, to individuate, to get free from the oppressive influence of society and other people; what's different is the extremes to which we take it. If drawing a pentagram is a form of enacting a pattern of abuse within oneself, and an unconscious attempt to get free of it, then what if it works, or seems to, and provides relief? Then it might lead to "harder stuff." People who already carry an especially dense darkness in them are drawn to dark practices that allow that darkness (unconsciousness) to take them over. Whether it's a pentagram or a crucifix, a Satanic ritual, a Catholic one, or a sex, drugs & rock n' roll one, what's the difference? Where there's unconscious rage hungry for payback, it will lead to abuse of whatever power is gained through the rituals.

Christianity disowns rage & rebellion as un-Christian, so those things come out unconsciously. Satanism embraces rage & rebellion and all it really is is an expression of powerlessness and a refusal to surrender. Everything becomes something to push against, and so the same sorts of abuses result either way, albeit with an opposite rationale (set of beliefs) fueling them. Satanism reveals the mechanics of the unconscious more clearly than Christianity, it's like the Christian unconscious exposed. So it seems like it offers liberation through embracing the darkness. Psychologically, that's a sound principle, and it's the spirit in which I was drawn to all things devilish. But in most cases people get swallowed up by the darkness rather than integrating it. The inevitability of underestimating our own unconscious shadow matter really is the greatest danger there is, so it's not too much of a stretch to say that this fact is akin to the Christian caution about the Devil, whose greatest trick was to convince us he doesn't exist.

To paraphrase Blake, Satan only Acts & Is, in existing beings or Men. That doesn't make Satan any less real in its consequences. IMO, Christians who are afraid to let their kids play D & D or listen to rock music aren't necessarily wrong about pop culture being a slippery slope (full of symbols and images that are designed to appeal to the traumatized power-seeking part of us). Where they're missing the boat, IMO, is in not being paranoid enough and thinking that their own culture is somehow separate from the "satanic" one, rather than being the foundation of it (upon this rock....). And also, perhaps more to the point, in thinking it's possible to avoid "Satan" & still be in the world, at all, or even desirable. They seemed to have missed that little bit in their Good Book about "resist not evil," because resistance makes stronger.

I've wondered before (here) if the TPTB do not also adopt a similar survival strategy, their deep and sustaining, private, interior space being a fantasy in which the people they cause to be destroyed are only pretending, they don't really die, it's all a game. Nothing is destroyed, not really. Somehow they acquire and loot and purloin and the people they do this to are magically made whole again somewhere else, no harm done. Everyone wins, it's all good. If that were so, it would explain a lot. But whence does this fiction arise?

I think you are definitely onto something here. This fiction is central to occult and spiritual doctrine, that everything is God/consciousness and so all human interactions are simply God/consciousness/energy moving through itself, likes little fishes made of water. In which case, no one is doing anything to anyone. The scariest part of this "everything is permitted" credo is that it is pretty persuasive, at least until it becomes a rationale for the Rage.

[guruilla]

Acc to David Shurter at Faceborg, August 15 at 5:21pm:

“That whole satanist after school club is ALL FAKE. None of it is real. I called the schools on the lists- and those who even knew what I was talking about said NO. That ABC “news site” that first reported it was made in 2016 and when I looked at it- wasn’t even fully developed yet. It is all bullshit- trying to say that it is going to start another “satanic panic hysteria” because our government realizes that this whole child trafficking thing they have had going is about to hit the light and cause some shit. Don’t be fooled- it is nothing more than a propaganda campaign being run by an idiot.”

[Novem5er]

Guruilla, I just now saw this thread pop up again and I've been away these last two weeks.

I wanted to say I read your last post (the long one) and I really appreciate your thoughts. Throughout this thread I've been a little cheeky because I mostly think that religious stuff is a joke . . . but here is where I agree with you and came to appreciate your words: it's not a joke to the people that believe it.

Parents should be wary about exposing their kids to pop culture, and that could include D&D and rock music. I certainly don't let my 8 year old daughter listen to a lot of rock songs - and the modern ones aren't much better than modern pop music. I don't want my daughter singing about the devil, even if it's just Van Halen . . . and not because I think Diamond Dave invoking the Devil has any supernatural power, but because I'm concerned with even subtle psychological triggers in child development.

Which is why I would not support a real ASS program (and it appears to have been fake all along?), although I would support their right to have such a program. I've said all along that these After School Satanists were really just secularist trying to get school boards to remove any religious programs from their campuses.

I'll end this post with another personal story that just came to mind. When I was in the 7th grade, I actually found a book on the occult in a library. I think it was like a reference book, and it was incredibly boring, but it actually had pictures of pentagrams and described some rituals "that were used" to summon demons. Again, I think it was a religious reference book, not an actual occult book.

On the way home from the library, I described it to my dad and expressed some interest in it. We were not a religious family, so I thought my dad would think it was funny (even by 7th grade I knew there was no such thing as the devil). Strangely he got very serious and told me not to mess with that sort of stuff. "Why?" I asked him, and his reply was simply that "it was weird".

It struck me because he's a scientific guy and he's never in his life talked about god or Jesus or anything, other to make fun of Holy Rollers. I realize now, as a parent to two daughters, that he wasn't at all concerned that I'd actually summon a demon in my bedroom. He was concerned about mental health.

[guruilla]

The correlation between an interest in occultism and psychological "issues" seems pretty indisputable, tho which is cause & which effect is harder to be sure about. For me I'd say both were effects of a common, hidden cause, but then that's also true of my adolescent interest in video nasties, serial killers, & Clint Eastwood movies, and before that, in Marvel comics (and before that, Winnie the Pooh & Roald Dahl stories??).

Now even kids' cartoons have taken on an overtly sinister, deranging aspect (Pokemon Go); all of human culture seems to have this one source of deep trauma. Whether we use this stuff as a way to self-diagnose, self-medicate, or self-harm, I would say is the most essential thing to be aware of. Obviously warning kids away from pop culture, occultism, or whatever else as "stuff of the devil" doesn't work, any better than dismissing it as harmless or glorifying it as higher human expression does... Who knows.

I am curious if anyone can confirm Shurter's claim as to the ASS being all "hoax"?

[Novem5er]

When my wife was a pre-teen, her religious but psychologically abusive father threw away all of her X-Men comic books and forbid her from watching the Saturday morning cartoon of the same name. Their super powers were no fueled by Jesus, therefor their powers must come from the Devil. She was really into comic at that age and was devastated by their removal, not only because it felt like part of her budding personality was being ripped away, but also because of the complete 180 that her father had pulled.

He was, after all, the person that let her buy the comics in the first place. She lived in a world where every day things could be acceptable one week and then verboten the next, all based on a pastor's sermon or a father's revelations.

But back to comic, we could say that a person's fascination with them could be signs of a psychological problem, too. Reading about heroes with sexy bodies and super powers probably gives a sense of empowerment to the reader, when they feel powerless in real life. But is that a psychological "problem"? Or is it just a common human experience? Things are popular for a reason, when they stretch out over the decades, and I think it's because they hit on common experiences and feelings. I agree that it all depends on how we react to these experiences.

"Whether we use this stuff as a way to self-diagnose, self-medicate, or self-harm, I would say is the most essential thing to be aware of."

I think it comes down to "all thing in moderation". Back to comics, the only problem I see with them is when people become obsessed with them to the point of fixating their identity as a "comic book nerd" who rejects larger society, socially isolates themselves, and spends money they don't have to collect things they don't need"; all because comics make them "feel good", even though it only feeds into the fact that they never really feel good about anything. That's an over-generalization, but again its a "danger".

But in the above situation, could we really blame the comics? I don't think so. I think it's be more the result of psychological and social issues and that the comics were simply the chosen outlet or manifestation. Replace comics with occultism, and we could have the exact same situation, couldn't we?

Which brings me back to Satanism. I think a little dabbling is probably very normal (and even healthy) for rebellious individuals; just like enjoying comic books or (more likely now) the Hollywood movie versions of them. Beelzebub and Wolverine are both fictional characters (in my mind), but giving in to the occasional debate or discussion causes no harm. Wearing either on a T-shirt isn't harmful. Yet, devoting one's life to either is probably a bad decision. At least Wolverine doesn't ask for blood sacrifices, though, and is less likely to scare the neighbors.

On a funny note; I think one of my first posts in this thread referenced Satanism in rock music as a "comic book horror show"; and it looks like I've come back around to that point :p

[guruilla]

I think a little dabbling is probably very normal (and even healthy) for rebellious individuals

Homeopathic doses;and/or inoculation. But we are weened on excess, which is part of the "program" installed into all these media (ie, they are designed to fuel fantasy, make us feel powerful, & be addictive).

[Wombaticus Rex]

I am curious if anyone can confirm Shurter's claim as to the ASS being all "hoax"?

I'll confirm it on Monday. But I had assumed we were all discussing that list as if it was bullshit.

Really, the notion of "Satanist" anything getting funded & approved in Springfield Missouri or Salt Lake City... I took that list to be a wink and a nod.

[guruilla]

Not a hoax after all?

LA Times:

Yes, an after-school Satan Club could be coming to your kid's grade school

The Satanic Temple, an organization based in Salem, Mass., continues to make headlines with its latest venture.
Rick Anderson

Lilith Starr, a devil’s advocate in every sense, is in a rush to get her After School Satan Club started.

As founder of the Satanic Temple of Seattle, she’s under pressure from national satanic headquarters — located in the Colonial witch trials city of Salem, Mass. — to launch a counter-strike against grade school Christianity by opening an after-school Satan Club.

“I think many people have the misunderstanding that we are some kind of tongue-in-cheek troll group,” said Starr, 44, a Harvard grad who sometimes dresses in church robes and, when circumstances demand, paints her lips and part of her face black.

“But in reality we are a very serious religion, with our own shared narrative, culture and symbols, a code of ethics — our Seven Tenets — and worship in the form of activism.”

The national movement is attempting to establish a dozen After School Satan Clubs across the country. Local chapters have applied for space at public grade schools in cities including Atlanta, Detroit, Washington, Portland, Ore., Tacoma, Wash., Salt Lake City, Tucson, and Los Angeles.

The clubs are all seeking school district approval, with the Atlanta-area club saying it hopes to hold its first meeting by Halloween.

The Los Angeles Unified School District appears to be the only school district to outright reject the club. In response to a Los Angeles Times inquiry Monday, the district issued a statement stating the club proposed for Chase Elementary School in Panorama City “does not meet the minimum requirement of having the school’s approval and, therefore, will not be offered at the school.”

That rejection could lead to a legal challenge. The Christians may have the force of Heaven behind them, but the Satanists have the U.S. Supreme Court.

A 2001 high court ruling in a civil case brought by the Child Evangelism Fellowship of Missouri held that when a government operates a “limited public forum” such as after-school clubs, it can’t discriminate against the kind of speech that takes place.

The victory permitted the clubs to proselytize in public classrooms after hours. It also opened the school door for students of any faith, or no faith, to be taught the ways of Satanism.

Fifteen years later, with the Christian-based Good News Club having expanded to hundreds of schools across the U.S., the Satanists are responding.

While Good News Clubs are effectively Bible and faith classes for children, the Satan Clubs intend to preach scientific evolution of humankind rather than what they describe as the “superstitions” of organized religion.

“We believe strongly in religious plurality and we fight for equal representation for all religions,” Starr said. “Whenever religion enters the public sphere, like the Good News Club at public schools, we take action to ensure that more than one religious voice is represented, and that is our intent with the After School Satan Club.”

The Satanic Temple website says the group does not believe in a “personal Satan” or advocate evil, though it does embrace blasphemy as a legitimate form of expression.

Starr’s temple originally planned to open its first club at a grade school in Mount Vernon, north of Seattle. The school board’s attorney said the district had no choice but to approve the request due to court rulings.

But with space unavailable there until April, Starr said, the temple is now targeting Point Defiance Elementary in Tacoma, where the Satanists could likely start competing sooner with a Good News Club there. A school district spokesperson confirms the application has been made, but the school board has made no decision yet.

“We think [satanic clubs are] especially important when religious clubs target young children ages 5 to 12,” said Starr, “because at these ages it can be hard for children to distinguish between official educators and the teachers proselytizing to them in the after-school clubs.”

Starr, whose autobiography is called “The Happy Satanist,” has an English degree from Harvard and a master’s in journalism from Stanford. She says she battled depression, she confesses in a web bio, to “eventually losing her marriage, her house, her job and her friends due to an out-of-control addiction to nitrous oxide,” or laughing gas.

She remarried and found Satanism reading her husband’s Satanic Bible, eventually forming the Seattle temple in 2014. She said the group, which now has 78 members, meets every other week in libraries, an occult book shop and other locations, always closing sessions with a “Hail Satan” invocation.

Among their advocacy efforts was an appearance at a high school football game across Puget Sound in Bremerton. Dressed in black robes, the Satanists milled about in counterpoint to Bremerton High’s assistant football coach, Joe Kennedy, who liked to lead his players kneeling in prayer on the 50-yard-line after the game. Though much of the Navy town’s community supported him — so did Donald Trump at one of his campaign appearances — the school board ended up firing Kennedy for his refusal to stop, and he has taken the dispute to federal court.

During a recent speech before the Seattle Skeptics Society, Starr said such publicity aids the temple’s fight against “the religious overreach that is just out of control right now across the nation.” She also outlined the group’s Seven Tenets, including a belief that “the freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend.” The skeptics clapped heartedly.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sat ... story.html

[Harvey]

Late night ramblings...

A ridiculous premise (Christianity, long ago bastardised synthesis of other religions) as core organising principle (look for example what conquistadors did with it) must eventually spur a reaction...

I went fairly deep into the Christian mythos as a possible truth, and it was very hard indeed to excise, perhaps even 'exorcise' the holy ghost afterwards but I could see many valuable if confused facets within the whole. I hope we're weary embattled friends rather than enemies. Above all else my attempt elicited the vow never again to go so far into alien territory. Why? Because there was simply no room to 'breathe' with all of the fellow travellers therein and their demands. The mechanics of the thing are anything but simple or pointless and though Dawkins et al are lineal descendants of it's values even as they militate against it, far be it from me to criticise, it wasn't in any sense what I could call, home, despite my own culture being saturated with it. Think of it as MS DOS, a core operating system which should never have been. A broken machine which remains to obey some lost imperative.

The thing is, an after school Satan club seems a fairly mild absurdity next to, say, the ongoing genocide of the Americas.

[Project Willow]

So, is this the wrong thread, or are folks just not tracking this?

Mesner and sycophants attacking carers of extreme abuse survivors:

[guruilla]

It's the right thread.

In the video, are the chained people supposed to be ISSTD workers? They seem entirely co-operative.

[Wombaticus Rex]

It's the right thread.

In the video, are the chained people supposed to be ISSTD workers? They seem entirely co-operative.

I am keenly interested in this and should be updating this thread. Co-sign that the video belongs here and this new PR push is, potentially, an important development. At the very least, monitoring this in real-time will have a lot to teach about the contours of this network in 2016.