The Mandela Effect (Disappearing Braces in Moonraker)

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Re: The Mandela Effect (Disappearing Braces in Moonraker)

Postby liminalOyster » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:56 pm

Farrakhan is still alive?
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Re: The Mandela Effect (Disappearing Braces in Moonraker)

Postby elfismiles » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:37 am

TRIGGER WARNING>>>>

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... NO ... SERIOUSLY ....

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My own mandela effect

Postby Handsome B. Wonderful » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:42 pm

I've decided to post my own personal experience with the "mandela effect".

I first watched Star Trek V: The Final Frontier when it was released on VHS, I remember my sister rented it and we watched it. Probably a year after it's initial theatrical release. Watched it and of course we all know how that movie went.

Years later I saw it again. Not exactly sure how, but I just remember it had been awhile. Might have been my brother's copy, he had the original 5 box set on VHS. So anyway, there is the scene where Sybok releases the pain of Spock and McCoy. I was anticipating seeing how I remembered what Sybok did with Kirk. Except what I saw wasn't what I remembered. I thought "Huh, maybe this is a different version?"

What I remember is seeing Kirk going back to the death of his son on the Genesis planet. When Sybok tells Kirk to release his pain he says "No, I need my pain!"

I was confused as to why this was missing. Then the movie gets released on DVD and I remember renting it thinking it was a deleted scene. No such scene was on the special features. Curious.

So finally it comes out on Blu Ray. "Surely it must be there." I thought. No such luck. I for one, can state with certainty that this is a memory. This is how I always remembered that scene. I cannot explain why I distinctly remember it that way. Of course I am open to the suggestion that I am confabulating or even that my mind is just simply "making it up", or that I am remembering it incorrectly. But it still remains in my mind as a memory. A distinct clear memory.

When I learned about the Mandela Effect couple of years ago, this stuck out in my mind.
Born we are the same, within the silence, indifference be Thy name
Torn we walk alone, we sleep in silent shades
The grandeur fades, the meaning never known- 'Born' Nevermore
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Re: My own mandela effect

Postby cptmarginal » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:01 am

The new way of thinking is precisely delineated by what it is not.
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Re: My own mandela effect

Postby Grizzly » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:37 am

I learned about the Mandela Effect couple of years ago


Same!

I had one this morning, I could swear I read Van Morrison had died of cancer over a year ago, but this morning I read he's just put out a new release of lock-down protest songs!
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54194498

Maybe, I'm thinking Warren Zevon????
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

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Re: My own mandela effect

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:36 am

If there were anything to this idea of the "Mandela effect," it would probably occur with events more significant than recollection of particular movies/media properties, which seems to be where the concept lives.

Even in cases where it does involve something more than what you remember happened in a movie or the correct title of a children's book, i.e. Nelson Mandela's death, the only thing close to evidence we have is individual proclamations on personal memory.

Personally, I doubt this phenomena is anything more than people remembering wrong, an interesting study in the fallibility of memory. That said, there are enough people subscribing to the existence of this Mandela effect that it is worth considering. If we're going to do that, we will need a methodology, because currently all we have amounts to a he said/she said of "He had metal teeth in jaws." "No, I re-watched it and he didn't." "Yeah, but I def remember he did."

From which arises the question, is it even possible to have evidence of this alleged phenomena? Is there a copy of the Berenstein Bears out there somewhere? media coverage of Mandela's first funeral? Or, because the past has changed, as the Mandela effect concept presupposes, is it impossible for these artifacts to exist? Without artifacts, we are left solely to rely on individual memories, which is already a very hazy area, and one for which we will need new tools and methods to even begin to seriously investigate this idea should we still consider that a worthwhile venture.

(also, concur with cptmarginal, can this thread be combined with the existing thread on this subject, please? per board rule re: thread proliferation)
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Re: My own mandela effect

Postby Handsome B. Wonderful » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:08 pm

Yes, if the mods want to move this to the posted thread, I'm fine with that.
Born we are the same, within the silence, indifference be Thy name
Torn we walk alone, we sleep in silent shades
The grandeur fades, the meaning never known- 'Born' Nevermore
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This makes perfect sense

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:34 am

I expect it was something like this:

If you're watching ST, movie No. V, for some nth time, then you've watched a lot of ST. This is different from watching a stand-alone, one-time film, no matter how affective or powerful. It means ST, and all the ideas and dreams it plays upon, and of course the highly archetypicalized characters, occupy a region of your mental life that is not insignificant, however small or large. This is also true for me, and for many others.

I was thinking the other day how we children in my little world of Astoria Greeks were learning the Greek Orthodox creed (a recitation of the church's fundamental beliefs) back at my parochial elementary school. Every morning we were standing up to do both the Lord's Prayer in Greek and the Pledge of Allegiance (and the Star Spangled Banner, and the Greek national anthem). By the time I was 12, however, I was well along to growing up in America, a country that was more real to me than the notional Greece into which our school meant to culturaly naturalize us.

Until then, my access to this more-real country's literature, intellectual life, and ways of thought had come through television, science fiction books, comics, and newspapers. And, above all, did I mention television? Yes, television. The other day, as I happened to think on those times, I realized that by the age of twelve I had acquired my own personal prayer and my own personal pledge of allegiance. At the time, I did not think about it in those terms, but this 'prayer' and 'pledge' were truer to me than the formal ones we recited at the school. My prayer, and I know this is crazy or sad or funny, would have begun with the line, Meet the Mets, meet the Mets... Spectator team sport games on television were a very serious matter. Like many others, I vested hopes and dreams and fears, which are the province of prayer, in the fate of my beloved (usually hapless) team. And my equivalent to a creed, or a pledge of allegiance, the one that I believed in more fundamentally as an expression of world-view and Things that Should Be (Even If They Are Not), would have begun as follows: 'Space - the final frontier...' We, the humans, had a mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where none of us had gone before.

So what do I figure happened with you, Handsome B. Wonderful? The first time you watched Star Trek V, my expectation is that you had watched and lived a lot of Star Trek up to that point, including movies I-IV. As you watched a compelling scene unfold before you for the first time, you anticipated an obvious conclusion to it. Your version would have followed and completed (or 'paid off', as the writers and critics put it) a central narrative and character-arc up to that point, about Kirk and his son. These things do, after all, have arcs. And arcs follow from our psychology. And by that time you were familiar with arcs, and even if you didn't use the word, you could have explained and broken down how they work. And, like all watchers of sequential film (or followers of human storytelling generally), you were habituated to anticipate the course of an arc, and to imagining what happens next in the story, before it happens. Hell, when watching something with others, predicting what will happen next is often a welcome part of the experience. Thus, in those seconds, before the scene reached its climax, you had already written, imagined, and effectively lived through the scene you now remember.

The writers, however, had come up with a different idea for the story. They never thought of your idea, or they flubbed the obvious, or they preferred their version. Or they followed some other compulsion, like what the producers wanted, or they needed to fit the film into a number of minutes, or to get it done in a given number of days, or to avoid using footage from the earlier films. And so, in the next few seconds, the scene on screen did not happen as you'd already imagined it, as you'd already lived through it. After this, in your mind, your own version, being more compelling to you (and to me, and presumably to most anyone), combined with your having seen most of it acted out on screen, before the part you imagined did not follow. Your version became a memory to you, one more compelling than the film scene as actually shot.

And who cares? It's a movie. The stakes in being able to recollect what you'd 'actually' seen, as opposed to the more compelling thing you imagined and felt and effectively lived through, were zero. Then you went home, or had a meal, or did whatever you did, and thought on other things. Then years passed, and perhaps you never thought of those few seconds again, until you watched the movie a second or third or fourth time. You had no reason not to set your version as a memory that meant something to you, as opposed to the screen version that, to you, meant nothing, or would have meant a minor disappointment at most. So, the recollection still was of the version that made you feel, not the one your 'eyes saw'.

This process is remote from forgetting, or from 'corruption' of memory, let alone an echo from a branching n-dimensional reality. What you're remembering is genuinely more important than the shot scene. And it doesn't matter at all that you're remembering it the 'wrong' way. Your way is the right way. You need not testify about it in court. If you get it 'wrong' later, it does not change your life. There is no threshold blocking you from remembering it your way, rather than the way the filmmakers shot it.

I think a lot of people have this Mandrake Effect with movies because the experience, while watching them, is incredibly real (if they're any good, if they grip you), emotional, awesome, tangible, intense, exclusive, and mental. It's all being completed in your head. At the same time, generally speaking, the reality and stakes of a movie are incredibly low. There's no reason for you not to shoot your own movie, for your mind not to remake it while you watch it, or after you watched it. It now occurs to me that the popularity of movies depends on that, and that all filmmakers, except the strictest auteurs, should hope that this is exactly what they are inspiring.

(Sir, we do not revise Mr. Kubrick's scenes in our heads. We don't. Please don't conceive of doing it again.)

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Re: My own mandela effect

Postby Handsome B. Wonderful » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:58 pm

Jack Riddler:

One of the best explanations put forth so far. thanks for that.
Born we are the same, within the silence, indifference be Thy name
Torn we walk alone, we sleep in silent shades
The grandeur fades, the meaning never known- 'Born' Nevermore
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Re: The Mandela Effect (Disappearing Braces in Moonraker)

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:03 pm

Bumping to merge with new thread.

Resisting urge to retitle this the Mandrake Effect. Has it not always been the Mandrake Effect? That is how I have always remembered it.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: The Mandela Effect (Disappearing Braces in Moonraker)

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:13 pm

.

Stop. You've always known it as the Mandela Effect. Now you're just gaslighting us, to use the parlance of our times.



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Re: The Mandela Effect (Disappearing Braces in Moonraker)

Postby Handsome B. Wonderful » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:55 pm

Mandrake effect. I read that thinking "Did he do that on purpose?" lol

Another thing I think I am remembering incorrectly involves Sep 11, 2001. I used to sleep with the radio on and that morning when I was half awake I heard Peter Jennings on our local radio station. I thought "What is Peter Jennings doing on the radio?" I thought it was a commercial so I turned over and listened with my eyes closed. He said that the World Trade Center had been crashed into by a plane. When he said the Pentagon had been hit as well, I sat up and thought "This is huge."
I got up and my brother was in the kitchen watching it on TV. I can remember standing there stunned, looking at the WTC on fire. Then I pour a bowl of cereal and proceed to watch them crumble live on TV.
Thing is, I live in the central time zone. I remember waking up at 10:00 am., yet according to the official timeline, the north tower collapsed at 9:28 am Eastern time. It had already collapsed by the time I awoke. How could I have witnessed it if it already happened? I must have woken up at 9:00 am CT. But I would swear, testify in court even, that I awoke at 10 am CT.
It's so weird.
Born we are the same, within the silence, indifference be Thy name
Torn we walk alone, we sleep in silent shades
The grandeur fades, the meaning never known- 'Born' Nevermore
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Re: The Mandela Effect (Disappearing Braces in Moonraker)

Postby elfismiles » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:01 pm

JackRiddler » 25 Sep 2020 02:03 wrote:Bumping to merge with new thread.

Resisting urge to retitle this the Mandrake Effect. Has it not always been the Mandrake Effect? That is how I have always remembered it.



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Re: The Mandela Effect (Disappearing Braces in Moonraker)

Postby PufPuf93 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:19 pm

elfismiles » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:01 pm wrote:
JackRiddler » 25 Sep 2020 02:03 wrote:Bumping to merge with new thread.

Resisting urge to retitle this the Mandrake Effect. Has it not always been the Mandrake Effect? That is how I have always remembered it.



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Re: The Mandela Effect (Disappearing Braces in Moonraker)

Postby dada » Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:04 pm

In the novelization of star trek V, during the scene in question, Kirk imagines his greatest pains. In the lines of dialogue afterwards, he says, ""Dammit, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be dispelled with the wave of a magic wand. They're things we carry with us - the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away. I don't want to forget David and Carol and losing the Enterprise. I need my pain.""

Is it possible you read this at some point, Handsome B? A vivid memory could easily be created by a book, especially if helped along by strong film images like the death of Kirk's son at the hands of Christopher Lloyd dressed as a Klingon, while a planet erupts around them.

There is a scene early in the novelization of Return of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker is fashioning his new lightsabre and placing it in the dome of the little r2d2. The scene takes place in a cave, like Ben Kenobi's house in Star Wars, maybe the same cave. The images come so easily, camera-shots and all. Even knowing the scene never happens in the movie, One can picture it just as vividly as if it did.

Anyway I must agree with Jack, what you're remembering is more important, and the right way.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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