Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:51 pm

Sartre on the Nobel Prize
Jean-Paul Sartre, translated by Richard Howard

DECEMBER 17, 1964 ISSUE


Jean-Paul Sartre explained his refusal to accept the Nobel Prize for Literature in a statement made to the Swedish Press on October 22, which appeared in Le Monde in a French translation approved by Sartre. The following translation into English was made by Richard Howard.
I deeply regret the fact that the incident has become something of a scandal: a prize was awarded, and I refused it. It happened entirely because I was not informed soon enough of what was under way. When I read in the October 15 Figaro littéraire, in the Swedish correspondent’s column, that the choice of the Swedish Academy was tending toward me, but that it had not yet been determined, I supposed that by writing a letter to the Academy, which I sent off the following day, I could make matters clear and that there would be no further discussion.

I was not aware at the time that the Nobel Prize is awarded without consulting the opinion of the recipient, and I believed there was time to prevent this from happening. But I now understand that when the Swedish Academy has made a decision it cannot subsequently revoke it.

My reasons for refusing the prize concern neither the Swedish Academy nor the Nobel Prize in itself, as I explained in my letter to the Academy. In it, I alluded to two kinds of reasons: personal and objective.

The personal reasons are these: my refusal is not an impulsive gesture, I have always declined official honors. In 1945, after the war, when I was offered the Legion of Honor, I refused it, although I was sympathetic to the government. Similarly, I have never sought to enter the Collège de France, as several of my friends suggested.

This attitude is based on my conception of the writer’s enterprise. A writer who adopts political, social, or literary positions must act only with the means that are his own—that is, the written word. All the honors he may receive expose his readers to a pressure I do not consider desirable. If I sign myself Jean-Paul Sartre it is not the same thing as if I sign myself Jean-Paul Sartre, Nobel Prizewinner.

The writer who accepts an honor of this kind involves as well as himself the association or institution which has honored him. My sympathies for the Venezuelan revolutionists commit only myself, while if Jean-Paul Sartre the Nobel laureate champions the Venezuelan resistance, he also commits the entire Nobel Prize as an institution.

The writer must therefore refuse to let himself be transformed into an institution, even if this occurs under the most honorable circumstances, as in the present case.

This attitude is of course entirely my own, and contains no criticism of those who have already been awarded the prize. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for several of the laureates whom I have the honor to know.

My objective reasons are as follows: The only battle possible today on the cultural front is the battle for the peaceful coexistence of the two cultures, that of the East and that of the West. I do not mean that they must embrace each other—I know that the confrontation of these two cultures must necessarily take the form of a conflict—but this confrontation must occur between men and between cultures, without the intervention of institutions.

I myself am deeply affected by the contradiction between the two cultures: I am made up of such contradictions. My sympathies undeniably go to socialism and to what is called the Eastern bloc, but I was born and brought up in a bourgeois family and a bourgeois culture. This permits me to collaborate with all those who seek to bring the two cultures closer together. I nonetheless hope, of course, that “the best man wins.” That is, socialism.

This is why I cannot accept an honor awarded by cultural authorities, those of the West any more than those of the East, even if I am sympathetic to their existence. Although all my sympathies are on the socialist side. I should thus be quite as unable to accept, for example, the Lenin Prize, if someone wanted to give it to me, which is not the case.

I know that the Nobel Prize in itself is not a literary prize of the Western bloc, but it is what is made of it, and events may occur which are outside the province of the members of the Swedish Academy. This is why, in the present situation, the Nobel Prize stands objectively as a distinction reserved for the writers of the West or the rebels of the East. It has not been awarded, for example, to Neruda, who is one of the greatest South American poets. There has never been serious question of giving it to Louis Aragon, though he certainly deserves it. It is regrettable that the prize was given to Pasternak and not to Sholokhov, and that the only Soviet work thus honored should be one published abroad and banned in its own country. A balance might have been established by a similar gesture in the other direction. During the war in Algeria, when we had signed the “declaration of the 121,” I should have gratefully accepted the prize, because it would have honored not only me, but also the freedom for which we were fighting. But matters did not turn out that way, and it is only after the battle is over that the prize has been awarded me.

In discussing the motives of the Swedish Academy, mention has been made of freedom, a word that suggests many interpretations. In the West, only a general freedom is meant: personally, I mean a more concrete freedom which consists of the right to have more than one pair of shoes and to eat one’s fill. It seems to me less dangerous to decline the prize than to accept it. If I accept it, I offer myself to what I shall call “an objective rehabilitation.” According to the Figaro littéraire article, “a controversial political past would not be held against me.” I know that this article does not express the opinion of the Academy, but it clearly shows how my acceptance would be interpreted by certain rightist circles. I consider this “controversial political past” as still valid, even if I am quite prepared to acknowledge to my comrades certain past errors.

I do not thereby mean that the Nobel Prize is a “bourgeois” prize, but such is the bourgeois interpretation which would inevitably be given by certain circles with which I am very familiar.

Lastly, I come to the question of the money: it is a very heavy burden that the Academy imposes upon the laureate by accompanying its homage with an enormous sum, and this problem has tortured me. Either one accepts the prize and with the prize money can support organizations or movements one considers important—my own thoughts went to the Apartheid committee in London. Or else one declines the prize on generous principles, and thereby deprives such a movement of badly needed support. But I believe this to be a false problem. I obviously renounce the 250,000 crowns because I do not wish to be institutionalized in either East or West. But one cannot be asked on the other hand to renounce, for 250,000 crowns, principles which are not only one’s own, but are shared by all one’s comrades.

That is what has made so painful for me both the awarding of the prize and the refusal of it I am obliged to make.

I wish to end this declaration with a message of fellow-feeling for the Swedish public
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1964/12 ... bel-prize/
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby brekin » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:03 am

Well, one narrative is that Dylan co-opted the folk protest scene and secularized it so it really wasn't as politically or as anti-war as it once was. You know he was, like, the Monkees version of the Weavers, that commercialized it all and defanged the folk protest scene. So you could say he was the Judas of the early 60's protest movement. He actually was called that at the New Folk Festival for going electric and away supposedly from political writing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_ ... ontroversy

So it is ironic that he's given a Nobel Prize for literature, when he's possibly responsible for diluting the peace movement in the warmongering U.S. or A. during a very important transitional time with his writing becoming more commercial and less political.

Maybe, he's a little hard to find because his conscience is bothering him?



If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby The Consul » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:24 am

Nah he doesn't fell guilty about that any more than borrowing a tune from Tiny Tim. He was not a clone of Pete Steger. And to my ear the real revolution began after he went electric. When he heard Jimi's version of Watchtower he realized the boundaries weren't disappearing because they were only an illusion to begin with.. I mean you can eat as much chicken as you want but you're still not gunna fly. Reverence isn't any better for the appetites of the soul than regret. How come wearly we got someone like him to be our god? We're all either looking for giants to worship or finding amusing ways not to get stepped on. The vibe is constant & it's never the same.
" Morals is the butter for those who have no bread."
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby RocketMan » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:07 am

It's funny... Some of the anger against Dylan for "selling out" his folk roots and veering away from political songs reminds me of the vitriol against the first season of True Detective.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:47 am

Bob Dylan is an American icon that was never a particular favorite of mine and I have pretty much ignored since the Traveling Wilburys (the 1st Wilburys album is the last Dylan album I have owned). I still have Blonde on Blonde and a double best of Dylan album from the 1960s. In going from folk to electric and by the many protest songs Dylan has a well deserved place in music history.

I first saw Dylan in a re-unification with The Band tour circa 1974 or 1975 at the Oakland Coliseum. I had seen The Band twice without Dylan circa 1970 and to this day prefer The Band over Dylan and The Band or any other Dylan group.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s Dylan had converted to born again Christianity and his voice was said to be gone and his career in decline. I met one of my oldest and still friend in 1981 who grew up in Hibbing, MN (Dylan's hometown) and who was and is a Dylan and Heart fan. We saw a very poor Dylan show at the Tehama County fairgrounds in 1982. We saw Heart together at South Lake Tahoe. I saw Dylan one more time and that was when he toured with Tom Petty in 1986 or 1987 and was the only time I have ever been to the Shoreline Amphitheatre in Mountain View. It was also with the friend from Hibbing. Good show. I prefer Tom Petty to Dylan similar to the preference for The Band alone over any Dylan. I am surprised that Dylan is still out on the road touring and putting out albums and getting a Nobel but Dylan has close to zero relevance over the past 25 or so years in my world. I have not been to a live rock performance since 1994. I have been somewhat put off by Dylan being used in advertisements.
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:20 am

I don't like to over analyze ...I just like listening to music...analyzing takes the fun out of it...replaces all the great memories ......all the life experiences that were happening at the time.....lots of really talented musicians sang and played his stuff

The Band and Dylan together have a place in my heart...soul and history

The one of the best all time concerts was The Band in Chicago around 1970...they just walked out on stage and started playing immediately ..blew me away

if my memory serves me well


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mlzUHxNMV8

when we get to the end ..start all over again and sing like a bird

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIfKkV77lqM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32ZMSNAZcsA
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:54 am

brekin » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:03 am wrote:Well, one narrative is that Dylan co-opted the folk protest scene and secularized it so it really wasn't as politically or as anti-war as it once was. You know he was, like, the Monkees version of the Weavers, that commercialized it all and defanged the folk protest scene. So you could say he was the Judas of the early 60's protest movement. He actually was called that at the New Folk Festival for going electric and away supposedly from political writing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_ ... ontroversy

So it is ironic that he's given a Nobel Prize for literature, when he's possibly responsible for diluting the peace movement in the warmongering U.S. or A. during a very important transitional time with his writing becoming more commercial and less political.

Maybe, he's a little hard to find because his conscience is bothering him?


brekin, one could not be more wrong in an analysis of Dylan.

First and foremost, Dylan was an artist who expressed his poetry with music. He was a well respected folk singer long before he went electric in '65, and far from being the "Judas" of the protest movement, through his words music and iconic presence, he motivated many who would never have picked up a Ban The Bomb sign, let alone actively protest the Vietnam war.

How many of us would have read Dylan's poetry had he chosen only to express himself through printed word alone? How fortunate we are he chose music to accompany and accent his words!

His naysayers criticisms all appeared after his Newport performance and they were purists, who felt as some still do, that "Folk" music remain unchanged from its primitive form as it was played long before the advance of electricity.

And Consul, Dylan's electrified version actually influenced Hendrix, and not vice versa.

Dylan opened a new frontier for folk musicians to explore and folk music is as strong as ever it was.

I believe, (I'm unable to advance the sound track to preview the entire interview to find where Pete Seeger speaks about Newport '65 and Dylan going electric) in this interview, Seeger talks about his reaction at the time, and what transpired. 2001 interview rebroadcast on the 1st anniversary of his death.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080106044953/http://buffaloreport.com/020826dylan.html

edited to add,

Consul, I misread your remark. Yes, Dylan understood the benefit of Change. Even gave a good swift kick in the pants!
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:00 am

there are so many great versions of All Along the Watchtower

and will probably get shit for liking this one..but I do a lot

There must be some kind of way outta here
Said the joker to the thief
There's too much confusion
I can't get no relief

"There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour's getting late."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaMQ-R9YGM

ok so I can't make up my fuckin mind...so sue me :P :partydance: :partydance: :partydance: :partydance: :partydance:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXpCYJcOY5Q


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHBSvpzI7Tw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fMvW_FtALU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DBewzgXgYk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFMoJE2Eb5k
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby brekin » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:13 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:
brekin » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:03 am wrote:Well, one narrative is that Dylan co-opted the folk protest scene and secularized it so it really wasn't as politically or as anti-war as it once was. You know he was, like, the Monkees version of the Weavers, that commercialized it all and defanged the folk protest scene. So you could say he was the Judas of the early 60's protest movement. He actually was called that at the New Folk Festival for going electric and away supposedly from political writing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_ ... ontroversy

So it is ironic that he's given a Nobel Prize for literature, when he's possibly responsible for diluting the peace movement in the warmongering U.S. or A. during a very important transitional time with his writing becoming more commercial and less political.

Maybe, he's a little hard to find because his conscience is bothering him?


brekin, one could not be more wrong in an analysis of Dylan.


I don't believe you.

Image


Bob Dylan and the Civil Rights Movement
A closer look at Bob Dylan's "protest" songs

By Ben Corbett
Folk Music Expert


Although Bob Dylan gained a superficial political worldview through Woody Guthrie's musical influence back in Minneapolis, when he arrived in New York in January 1961, he had no stance on the issues. By all accounts, it was Dylan's girlfriend, Suze Rotolo, that nudged him down the road as an activist singer. The daughter of union organizers, and a volunteer for the Congress of Racial Equality, Rotolo encouraged Dylan to perform at political rallies. At a February 1962 CORE benefit, he introduced his just-written broadside, “The Death of Emmitt Till,” his very first "protest" song.

A Songwriting Activist Emerges

Rapt with newfound idealism and hitting exciting new plateaus with his craft, the next 18 months became a songwriting bonanza as the young lyricist scratched out a raft of his finest topical songs. Recorded between April 24,1962 and May 27, 1963, Dylan's second album, The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, only catalyzed the 21-year-old's plunge into politics and his growing allegiance with the civil rights movement.

While “Oxford Town” (purchase/download) examined the September 1962 clash between federal marshals and the Mississippi National Guard over James Meredith's right to attend the all-white university, it was “Blowin' in the Wind” that put Dylan on the map as a folk activist and popular musician. Already popularized by Peter, Paul and Mary, this career crown jewel quickly became one of the movement's principal anthems.

The Real Deal or Fame-Seeker?

Throughout 1962, Dylan had been performing benefits regularly around New York with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC), the grassroots group he most firmly aligned himself with, along with Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, and The Staples Singers. While Dylan's detractors claim he was a fame-seeker, posturing to cash in on the folk movement, this was untrue. Dylan was a bona fide believer in the power of song to create change.

When he was invited to promote Freewheelin' on the Ed Sullivan Show on May 13, he chose to play “Talkin' John Birch Society Blues,” a track that lampooned the ultra-conservative reactionary group. When the producers got nervous and asked him to change songs, Dylan stalked away and his appearance was canceled.

Deeper Involvement

Enter the 1963 Newport Folk Festival. Pretty much Pete Seeger's showcase, Dylan's debut appearance was more than just an initiation into the club, but another shove toward the throne as the movement's celebrity poster boy. Joined onstage by Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, Peter, Paul and Mary, and the SNCC's Freedom Singers, Dylan wrapped up his set with “Blowin' in the Wind.” And for an encore, the group held hands, invoking the audience in a singalong of "We Shall Overcome"

Caught in the whirlwind, on August 28, Dylan and Baez would soon perform at the Freedom March in Washington, D.C., when Martin Luther King Jr. gave his legendary “I Have a Dream” speech. Introduced by actor Ossie Davis, Dylan performed “When the Ship Comes In,” and “Only a Pawn in Their Game,” also joining Len Chandler for the song “Hold On.”

In late fall, Dylan finally got his baptism into the everyday realities of southern blacks when he performed the Greenwood, Mississippi voter registration rally, where he played “With God on Our Side” to around 300 black farmers. He also did “Only a Pawn in Their Game,” a freshly-penned song about the slaying of civil rights leader Medgar Evers that occurred weeks earlier. Both of these tracks would appear on his next album, the socially critical January '64 release, The Times They Are A-Changin'.

Political Disenchantment

While 1963 was Dylan's most active year in politics, it was also his most disillusioning. Feeling co-opted by white movement leaders and despising their expectations of him to become its star champion, Dylan began his retreat. Although he never stopped supporting the black struggle, becoming a Pied Piper for liberal guilt-afflicted whites was a hypocritical role he was unwilling to play.

He voiced his disenchantment with the movement during his acceptance speech at the lavish December 1963 award ceremony for the Emergency Civil Liberties Committee, when Dylan alienated the mostly white audience, criticizing the recent freedom march on Washington: “I looked around at all the Negroes there and I didn't see any Negroes that looked like none of my friends. My friends don't wear suits.” Obviously addressing his own suit-wearing audience, he then shocked the crowd further by saying he and Lee Harvey Oswald had a lot in common. As the booing started, he walked off.

Another Side of Bob Dylan

Ever-evolving as a songwriter, Bob Dylan's dip into politics had always been a segue to greater destinations. During the height of his activism in fall of 1963, he was already soaking up Beat influences and French modernism, and his craft was becoming less literal and much more poetic and literary, as reflected in his next release, the politically vacant August 1964 release, Another Side of Bob Dylan (compare prices).

Reactions to the album from folk purists were immediate and harsh. Bob Dylan was abandoning the cause, they said. He wasn't living up to his responsibilities as a protest songwriter. He'd fallen into the fame trap. Of those who criticized him, to expect a 22-year-old artist at the peak of his creative prowess to remain stationary in dead-end politics was not only foolish, but naïve.

Dylan's Apolitical Future

Although Dylan stepped out of activism in 1964, throughout the rest of his career he would make subtle political gestures and write the occasional topical ballad. For instance, 1971 's “George Jackson,” about the militant black Marxist's execution in a prison shootout, followed by the 1976 song and tour championing the release of wrongly imprisoned boxer, Rubin “Hurricane” Carter.

More, when Dylan received a Lifetime Achievement Award at the 1991 Grammys, with Desert Storm in full swing, he performed “Masters of War” (purchase/download)—the same song he ironically played during a 1990 West Point concert. And on election night 2008, as Barack Obama's victory was announced, Dylan deviated from his usual live encore of “Like a Rolling Stone” to play the rare “Blowin' in the Wind” (purchase/download).

http://folkmusic.about.com/od/bobdylan/ ... Rights.htm
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby coffin_dodger » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:22 pm

Brek said:
So it is ironic that he's given a Nobel Prize for literature when he's possibly responsible for diluting the peace movement in the warmongering U.S. of A

Not really irony. More a case of double-irony, reverse irony. Take a look at the structure of the Nobel organisation, the past recipients in all categories and it starts to become perfectly clear. I'm in agreement with you, btw.
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:49 pm

In my sophomore year 68-69 of high school for Louie Knight, English Literature, I brought in All Around the Watchtower to class on a bring a poem to class day and learned the song was by Dylan not Hendrix in the process.

One of my current ongoing joys and entertainment is looking for old rock and roll clips on the internet. Not that long ago I spent hours listening to different covers of All Along the Watchtower (but oops forgot Dylan). Here is a cover by Randy California (of Spirit that covered the song) with an assortment of other guitarists. There is a Frank Zappa cover of Watchtower IIRC with Steve Vai on 2nd lead guitar I cannot find at the moment.



In late 1969 and in 1970 I went to five concerts on high school field trips at Berkeley Community Theatre:

1) Hendrix (played Star Spangled Banner as well as Watchtower like Dave Mathews - what reminded me)
2) James Taylor with Carole King on piano and doing several songs as singer with Odetta as opening act.
3) James Taylor with Fairport Convention opening.
4) 5) The Band.

My mind is slipping in age and ill health.
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:58 pm

Here is Bob Dylan doing All Along the Watchtower with Springsteen. I could not readily find a live clip of Dylan with The Band.

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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:02 pm

it's here but I haven't been able to watch it yet..it's loading very slowly
@54 minute mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCKtEJOsz9k
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby Cordelia » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:26 pm

brekin wrote:Well, one narrative is that Dylan co-opted the folk protest scene and secularized it so it really wasn't as politically or as anti-war as it once was. You know he was, like, the Monkees version of the Weavers, that commercialized it all and defanged the folk protest scene. So you could say he was the Judas of the early 60's protest movement. He actually was called that at the New Folk Festival for going electric and away supposedly from political writing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_ ... ontroversy

So it is ironic that he's given a Nobel Prize for literature, when he's possibly responsible for diluting the peace movement in the warmongering U.S. or A. during a very important transitional time with his writing becoming more commercial and less political.

Maybe, he's a little hard to find because his conscience is bothering him?


Agree but doubt it's a matter of conscience at this late date. (Though maybe Dylan thinks Lennon, really, should receive a posthumous Peace prize.)

John Lennon and Bob Dylan share a ride:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSlZvfsWdOc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z46kZ2EWUOs

Speaking of the 1991 Grammy Awards, Jack Nicholson seems to be the only one uncomfortable with Dylan's kinda bizarre behavior during his award receipt.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeBzvgewgsc

Dylan Everybody must get stoned (or drunk).
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

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Re: Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature

Postby norton ash » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:36 pm

Hey, you goddam Jehovah's Witnesses... I get home and there's this huge pile of Watchtowers in the porch.

ETA-- Bob Dylan is a genius who's amassed a library of brilliant work and I'm happy that he won the Nobel.
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