The Socialist Response

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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sun May 06, 2018 5:30 am

Well said, Minime.

I hate to even open my figurative mouth, as this thread has already been thoroughly derailed, and further comment only adds to the ridiculousness, but I can't help myself.

What a ridiculous waste these last few pages have been.

For all those who have criticisms of something AD posts (or anyone else, for that matter), said poster fails to respond to your questions or comments, consider it an invitation to prove your point without the poster there to refute anything you say. If you bring it back to bullshit like "why won't so and so respond? I'm only asking questions," you are not helping anything.

For all those who are bothered by behavior similar to that described above, just post something on topic and leave it the fuck alone. To do otherwise is not helping anything.

If the last two days of posts aren't some well-planned example of agit-prop disruption, it's a damn good example of how it can happen organically.

And Mods, who are presumably attempting to be unbiased and have an interest in maintaining this board, I encourage you to take note of how this thread may have devolved and pay attention to any observable patterns in the future in this or other threads.

With certain people hem-hawing nonstop about the slow death of this board due to lack of discussion, some seem happy to continue focusing on individuals above issues to the detriment of the discussion they claim they want.


Anyway.
The socialist response.
The first step is acknowledging socialism as a legitimate idea and something that can be identified with.
The word has been so vilified, at least in American culture, than many fear to even speak it.
For a socialist response to actually exist, people must first reclaim the word from the capitalists who have defined it for generations. Begin to associate it with worthwhile things like decent wages and living conditions, rather than the Communist nightmare the Right would present it as. Socialism will eventually have to deal with the realities of greed and corruption, since they infest any system, but for a first step, it is enough to argue for basic decency and a level playing field and the idea that it is shameful for millions to starve while the lucky few sit atop mountains of food they can throw away. Simple, decent, human things. The capitalist whores who benefit from the status quo will lie and shade and do what they do, but no one can argue against giving a starving child food without their own greed showing. Even starving adults may forgo food so a starving child may eat in their place - those with an abundance who would deny such a thing can rightfully be called greedy, and perhaps, evil.
"When I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink!"
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Rory » Sun May 06, 2018 9:19 am

stillrobertpaulsen » Sat May 05, 2018 1:59 pm wrote:
Rory » Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 pm wrote:Spare us the pearl clutching pontificating. Your rosy tinted reminiscences for a kinder more illuminated board are not borne out by actual facts.

You're a passive aggressive pest, peartreed. As bad a troll and shitposter as any of the so called meanies you cry your fake crocodile tears about


Rory, I've had multiple alerts on your behavior here, so this is my official warning to you. Refrain from personal attacks or you will be suspended.


This is not moderation. This is your being manipulated by squeaky wheels, to apply grease their direction. You want to publicly admonish me, go ahead. You want to call yourself a fair moderator then do the same to the other parties (and you fine well know who they are).

If you can't read the surrounding context, and apply an even hand then what's the point. Why are you bothering except to act as one sides enforcer. I've seen who's been suspended and warned, at least on here and there is a pattern.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun May 06, 2018 10:12 am

Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby peartreed » Sun May 06, 2018 4:12 pm

While often broadly descriptive and convenient, I have an aversion to ideological labels such as socialist versus capitalist, right-wing versus left-wing, alt-right versus alt-left, communist, Marxist-Leninist- Stalinist, globalist versus nationalist, liberal versus conservative, democrat versus republican versus libertarian, etc. ad infinitum. In my experience I’m like many others who don’t fit into such categories, certainly not exclusively. My degree of variance and flexibility I consider as realistic.

Most people I know vary their ideological stance depending on the issue and their degree of support, non-support or indifference. That often applies to politics too.

For example, in my family my wife and daughters, who are part indigenous, oppose oil pipelines that have intruded onto their traditional tribal lands with exploitive treaties, oil spills and vital ground water pollution. Yet, like me, they understand the importance of fossil fuel exploration, extraction, distribution and dependency for industrial and everyday use, commerce and economic growth. It’s an environmental and commercial clash of opposing needs where all sides, conflict straddlers and opposing politicians and parties at all government levels can’t easily resolve a policy or plan of action for everyone’s benefit. The labels and stereotypes don’t help out.

On some issues I’m conservative, on others I’m liberal, and on many others I’m consensual, seeking democratic resolution by voter franchise and ballot results.

I suppose one thing I’m certainly not is totalitarian nor fascist, but I digress.

In this thread of The Socialist Response I see labels and mislabeling as force-feeding ideological positions arbitrarily and artificially without exploring actual nuances of variance that represent most people much more realistically. That creates camps, conflicts and cruel stereotyping by surgically carving out the contours of society with prejudicial points. Instead I like multifaceted multiculturalist mosaics.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun May 06, 2018 4:52 pm

For the record: I never had anything to do with that "other" forum, never joined it, never posted to it, rarely even looked at it, didn't like it, forgot all about it for a long while, and was only recently reminded by someone's post here that the place even existed at all. So stop casting aspersions.

As for the idea that it would take coordination to make lots of people object vehemently to AD's abuse of this Discussion Board, that is simply too ludicrous to even bother refuting. I have already quoted Wombaticus Rex (objecting to AD's abuse of this forum when he was still a moderator) and Stillrobertpaulsen (objecting to that abuse before he became a moderator):

Wombaticus Rex » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:07 pm wrote:That's a very funny question! You got suspended because of your entire online MO -- the passive aggressive snipes at people, stirring shit up and then acting like you don't see people responding, and overall, maintaining your stellar track record of being the most intelligent and subtle troll we've ever had here at Rigorous Intuition to date (with the possible exception of Jeff Wells, of course -- jury is still out on that one).

A great way to reverse that trend would be to treat the people in this thread who are asking you questions like normal human beings, who are just as smart as you, don't have "problematic" or "questionable" motivations, and would earnestly like answers from you! Give it a shot! Could be exciting.


Here's Willow, three months later, in January 2015, when she was still a moderator:

Project Willow wrote:AD, this is indeed a discussion board. Endeavor to find a way to repair relationships and respectfully participate in this community or restrict your postings to the data dump or your own personal blog.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38687&p=558919&hilit=+This+is+indeed+a+discussion+board+#p558919


Emphasis added. Link.

This used to be a Discussion Board where bullshitters feared to tread, and with very good reason. That was what made it worth joining, worth participating in, and worth defending.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Sun May 06, 2018 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun May 06, 2018 4:57 pm

omg
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun May 06, 2018 5:29 pm

peartreed » Sat May 05, 2018 2:34 pm wrote:Mac, I’m surprised you took so long this time before joining the tag team attack.

Your dislike and derision of Americans is as revealing of your feelings as the reverent references to Karl Marx. Thank you for the self-profiling portrait.


1. No "tag team" exists, as I pointed out in my last post.

2. I do not "dislike Americans", you genius. I dislike you, for very good reasons. And I couldn't care less if you are Congolese or Faroese, what's detestable is the form, the content. and the spirit of the stuff you post here.

The RI member Elvis is American, for instance, and I certainly do not dislike him, On the contrary. What I do dislike, for very good reasons, is the horrible runaround you have subjected him to on this board. JackRiddler and bks are also American. I certainly do not dislike them. On the contrary. They are brilliant posters, brilliant writers and honest men. This board would be much healthier if Americans like them posted here much more frequently. Lola B, NeonLX, There are too many other good and very likable American members of this Discussion Board to list, some of whom only post very rarely. I do not dislike my old friends W & K in Chicago, E & N in NYC or M in Los Angeles, to name just a few. I do not dislike Muhammad Ali or Nina Simone or Michael Parenti or JD Salinger or Morris Berman or Professor Harry G. Frankfurt. What I detest, very heartily and unapologetically, is sneaks, bullshitters and pretentious poseurs. I detest them just as much as Mark Twain and George Carlin did, and they were both American.

RE: "self-profiling": It says a lot about you that you would object to the mere passing mention of Karl Marx, on the 200th anniversary of his birth, on a thread entitled "The Socialist Response". I would love to see a panel debate between you, Marx, Parenti, Frankfurt, Carlin and Twain, four honest Yanks and an honest Kraut.

Image
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." (Max Liebermann, Berlin, 1933)

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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun May 06, 2018 5:37 pm

MacCruiskeen » Sun May 06, 2018 11:18 am wrote:America's dreams, the planet's nightmares.



can you feel the love peartreed?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Burnt Hill » Sun May 06, 2018 5:56 pm

MacCruiskeen » Sun May 06, 2018 5:29 pm wrote:
peartreed » Sat May 05, 2018 2:34 pm wrote:Mac, I’m surprised you took so long this time before joining the tag team attack.

Your dislike and derision of Americans is as revealing of your feelings as the reverent references to Karl Marx. Thank you for the self-profiling portrait.


1. No "tag team" exists, as I pointed out in my last post.

2. I do not "dislike Americans", you genius. I dislike you, for very good reasons. And I couldn't care less if you are Congolese or Faroese, what's detestable is the form, the content. and the spirit of the stuff you post here.

The RI member Elvis is American, for instance, and I certainly do not dislike him, On the contrary. What I do dislike, for very good reasons, is the horrible runaround you have subjected him to on this board. JackRiddler and bks are also American. I certainly do not dislike them. On the contrary. They are brilliant posters, brilliant writers and honest men. This board would be much healthier if Americans like them posted here much more frequently. Lola B, NeonLX, There are too many other good and very likable American members of this Discussion Board to list, some of whom only post very rarely. I do not dislike my old friends W & K in Chicago, E & N in NYC or M in Los Angeles, to name just a few. I do not dislike Muhammad Ali or Nina Simone or Michael Parenti or JD Salinger or Morris Berman or Professor Harry G. Frankfurt. What I detest, very heartily and unapologetically, is sneaks, bullshitters and pretentious poseurs. I detest them just as much as Mark Twain and George Carlin did, and they were both American.

RE: "self-profiling": It says a lot about you that you would object to the mere passing mention of Karl Marx, on the 200th anniversary of his birth, on a thread entitled "The Socialist Response". I would love to see a panel debate between you, Marx, Parenti, Frankfurt, Carlin and Twain, four honest Yanks and an honest Kraut.

Image


:ohno:
Jesus wept.
Senator, you're no Mark Twain.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby minime » Sun May 06, 2018 6:02 pm

seemslikeadream » Sun May 06, 2018 3:37 pm wrote:
MacCruiskeen » Sun May 06, 2018 11:18 am wrote:America's dreams, the planet's nightmares.



can you feel the love peartreed?


The following is metanarrative...

Mac makes a distinction between the American people and the powers that be, whoever they are. He didn't go out his way to make that distinction clear for a long time. At least, I didn't see any such effort in my sporadic reading. Lately (the last year or more) he has gone out of his way several times to make himself clear.

slad, please make a note of it.

Now, the extent to which the powers that be in America may have been aligned with like minds in other nations, mac seemingly has not addressed. There's still time for all of that.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun May 06, 2018 6:11 pm

you have no idea what Mac has said to me in the past I do not need to make note ....thanks anyway
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Burnt Hill » Sun May 06, 2018 6:12 pm

minime wrote:Mac makes a distinction between the American people and the powers that be, whoever they are.


I would like to believe that minime, but paragraphs like this are hard to overlook (my bold) -

There is a horrible subsection of whiners on this board (precisely two of them, plus one hanger-on) who regard every disagreement as a personal affront and every actual refutation as an act of unpardonable lese-majeste. It's very American, and it's tres 2018, that attititude of arrogant entitlement, that rage at being challenged, questioned, or (horror of horrors) actually laughed at. How very dare we? Who do we think we are? Weep pitesously, then send in the Marines. It's the American Way.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby minime » Sun May 06, 2018 6:13 pm

seemslikeadream » Sun May 06, 2018 4:11 pm wrote:you have no idea what Mac has said to me in the past I do not need to make note ....thanks anyway


Ha!
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby minime » Sun May 06, 2018 6:24 pm

Burnt Hill » Sun May 06, 2018 4:12 pm wrote:
minime wrote:Mac makes a distinction between the American people and the powers that be, whoever they are.


I would like to believe that minime, but paragraphs like this are hard to overlook (my bold) -

There is a horrible subsection of whiners on this board (precisely two of them, plus one hanger-on) who regard every disagreement as a personal affront and every actual refutation as an act of unpardonable lese-majeste. It's very American, and it's tres 2018, that attititude of arrogant entitlement, that rage at being challenged, questioned, or (horror of horrors) actually laughed at. How very dare we? Who do we think we are? Weep pitesously, then send in the Marines. It's the American Way.


Obviously it applies to those it applies to. To those it doesn't apply to, well, then, not so much. Maybe we can get Mac to give us a head count. What do you think, Mac? A rough guesstimate.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Burnt Hill » Sun May 06, 2018 6:51 pm

Cop out of the year!

minime wrote:Obviously it applies to those it applies to. To those it doesn't apply to, well, then, not so much.


Unhealthy path.

minime wrote:Maybe we can get Mac to give us a head count. What do you think, Mac? A rough guesstimate.
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