The "Fake News" conspiracy.

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The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby Nordic » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:30 pm

http://www.newslogue.com/debate/138

The Neoliberal Echo Chamber Is Turning Us All Into Idiots
#EchoChamber #ConfirmationBias #FakeNews #Liberal #Neoliberal
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It's becoming more and more acceptable in liberal circles to ignore all information that doesn't validate one's ideology, and it's making us all stupid.
Agree 75% Disagree 25%
We now live in a society where sources that don’t confirm one’s bias are immediately dismissed as “fake news”, and nothing is considered true unless Wolf Blitzer says it. This is killing political discourse in America, and it’s turning us all into idiots.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to bring up a legitimate concern about the Democratic establishment in a debate with a party loyalist and been told that I’m crazy or ridiculous because it’s a concern they’d never encountered before. Whether I’m discussing a WikiLeaks release that didn’t get much coverage or the fact that Hillary Clinton really seemed to be gearing up for an all-out war with Russia, I have never, ever been met with sincerity or had my concerns directly addressed in an earnest debate of ideas with a Hillary voter. Not once. Not one single time, ever, to this day. And I’ve spoken to a lot of them.

They consistently dismissed me and told me I was crazy for bringing up such concerns, because they’d never heard about them. Why had they never heard about them? Because they live in an echo chamber. They’d never heard Rachel Maddow discuss the fact that Obama’s cabinet was selected for him by an executive from Citibank before he was even elected, which determined his administration’s lax and lenient policies toward Wall Street. They’d never heard John Oliver go on a self-righteous tirade about how a top Marine Corps General and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Hillary’s plan for a no-fly zone in Syria would necessarily entail a direct war with Russia. They’ve never been told about these things by Chris Cuomo or the Washington Post. All they’d ever been told by their friends and favorite pundits is that they’re right, and everyone who disagrees with them is at best privileged and ignorant, and at worst racist and fascist.



And it’s only gotten worse ever since the “fake news” smear campaign began against alternative media. Now every single time I try to substantiate my argument with a link or a source when debating a neoliberal, they tell me my source is invalid unless it comes from one of the mainstream news sites that have consistently avoided covering anything that made Clinton look bad. The talking heads on TV are telling them that it’s okay to do this now, that they no longer have to look at a news story and address its content anymore, because unless it comes from NBC, CNN or the New York Times, it’s fake. People are even doing this with mainstream outlets like The Observer and Fox News now; it happens routinely in my interactions with them. Try talking about how their favorite neoliberal outlets hardly ever cover WikiLeaks or the Clinton Foundation scandals and they call you a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist, even while they themselves feel perfectly comfortable and sane blaming Hillary’s loss on a vast global Trump-Putin-Comey-Assange conspiracy.

Political discourse is dead in America. We can’t debate each other anymore. Open dialogue between opposing viewpoints has been cut off completely, and instead we all now seek out whatever echo chamber we find the least egoically challenging, wall ourselves off from the rest of the world, and listen to the soothing voices tell us how right we are.

Nobody wants truth anymore. We all just want to feel like we’re right and everyone else is wrong, and we don’t care how many lies it takes to make that happen. The light of truth is uncomfortable for our political identities, so we avoid it.

This is of course happening across all ends of the political spectrum. There are still to this day Republicans who insist that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim, and there’s no shortage of voices authoritatively confirming that bias for them. Even my beloved Greens have it, many of them currently criticizing their own Jill Stein for her initiative to get vote recounts because it risks putting Clinton in the White House, which many on the far left (myself included) find much scarier than President Trump. Forget truth, forget light; they just want to get their way. They’re more than happy to try and manipulate and control what happens as long as it leads to them getting what they want and avoiding what they don’t want. These people would probably rig elections themselves if they could get away with it.



But all things are not equal; the neoliberals are unquestionably the worst. No other political group arbitrarily labels those who disagree with its ideology as fascists and Nazis, and then refuses to listen to anything they say because “I’ll be damned if I’ll sit and listen to a bunch of fascists and Nazis.” No other political group dismisses any news media outside of its preferred echo chamber as “fake news”. No other political group is still trying to claim that WikiLeaks did something wrong by sharing the truth with the American people. No other political group scoffs at and dismisses any story that they haven’t seen discussed inside their own personal echo chamber. No other political group resorts to bullying and ad hominem attacks to anywhere near the extent that Clinton liberals do.

It is only the neoliberals, the Democratic party loyalists that are doing these things. But since they’re a massive group right smack in the middle of the political spectrum, with the Republicans and Libertarians on the right and the Berners, Greens, socialists and progressives on the left, it’s putting a massive wobble on political dialogue all across the board. Sick of being abused and bullied by Clinton Democrats, many leftists have just stopped talking to anyone outside their circle, except maybe to the deplorables, who at least treat them kindly. Sick of being told that they’re racists, fascists and Nazis, people who supported Donald Trump for president have done the same, pulling away into their own segregated circles while trying to avoid the onslaught of attacks, fearmongering and censorship. And right there in between is the political group that’s causing it all, happily feeling righteous and validated in their little echo chambers while laughing away at the latest episode of The Daily Show.

This is making us all stupid, and it has got to stop. Democracy can’t function this way. If we know that our government has been lying to us and the media has been helping them, it’s of utmost importance that we become more open and honest with each other, not less. We can’t steer this country if we can’t see where we’re going, and we can’t see where we’re going if we’re not talking to each other. It’s of utmost importance that we get out of our echo chambers and start learning what's really happening with the actual people in actual America.

Imagine how much brain power we’d have if we started connecting instead of separating. It’s not necessary that we all agree on everything, all we’d have to do is keep a sincere, open sharing of ideas and information happening across the ideological gaps. Each group would force the others to step up their game and come up with better and better arguments for their position, and we’d be shown the inherent flaws in our ideology that need to be fixed. This would be a movement toward greater and greater intelligence instead of greater and greater idiocy. I don’t know about you, but I find that infinitely preferable.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby Nordic » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:36 pm

Cringeworthy. Stupid. Idiotic. Blatant propaganda. But added here because this fiction is literally the conspiracy theory that is sickening American minds.



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NEWS
Reports: Russian operation boosted 'fake news' phenomenon
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Doug Stanglin | USA TODAY
Updated 52 minutes ago
The "fake news" phenomenon that circulated thousands of phony stories during the election was aided by a sophisticated Russian propaganda effort, according to the Washington Post.

Independent researchers who tracked the bold operation say the goal was to punish Democrat Hillary Clinton, help Republican Donald Trump and undermine faith in American democracy, the newspaper reports.

Russian President Vladimir Putin arrives for a meeting of the presidential council for strategic ...more
Sergei Ilnitsky, AP
Two teams of independent researchers found that the Russians exploited American-made technology platforms to attack U.S. democracy at a particularly vulnerable moment in the rancorous campaigns. Among the most-circulated stories were items on Clinton's health and fears about vote rigging.
“They want to essentially erode faith in the U.S. government or U.S. government interests,” said Clint Watts, a fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute who co-authored a report on Russian propaganda, the Post reports. “This was their standard mode during the Cold War. The problem is that this was hard to do before social media.”


USA TODAY
How Facebook plans to crack down on fake news

In an article in the national security online magazine War On The Rocks, Watts, along with with co-authors Andrew Weisburd and J.M. Berger described a multi-pronged operation that bombarded social media with skewed items that then, often unwittingly, showed up in newsfeeds, posts and alternative news sites.
"A small army of social media operatives — a mix of Russian-controlled accounts, useful idiots, and innocent bystanders — are deployed to promote all of this material to unknowing audiences. Some of these are real people, others are bots, and some present themselves as innocent news aggregators, providing 'breaking news alerts' to happenings worldwide or in specific cities," the report says.
Weisburd is a fellow at the Center for Cyber & Homeland Security. Berger is an author and analyst studying extremism and the use of propaganda on social media.
A similar report from PropOrNot, which tracks propaganda, identifies more than 200 websites that regularly pushed Russian propaganda to some 15 million Americans. The analysts found bogus stories pushed on Facebook were viewed more than 213 million times.


USA TODAY
Fake news threatens democracy, Obama says

Some items originated from the Russian-funded information services, like RT and Sputnik, which produce both traditional news items and some misleading articles.
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"A large-scale information campaign is deceptively injecting Russian propaganda into American public discourse online," ProporNot says on its website. "It operates on both the left and the right, generating thousands of fake news articles, memes, tweets, and videos. Collectively, this propaganda is undermining our public discourse by providing a warped view of the world, where Russia can do no wrong, and America is a corrupt dystopia that is tearing itself apart. It is vital that this effort be exposed for what it is: A coordinated attempt to deceive U.S. citizens into acting in Russia's interests."

RT responded Friday with an article that said the Post was "blasted online" for what it called "its latest hit-piece." It also said the FPRI, where one of the analysts, Watts, is a fellow, was founded in 1955 to mobilize opposition to the Soviet Union during the Cold War and was criticized by Sen. William Fulbright, who was "a vocal opponent of McCarthyism."


USA TODAY
Report: Fake election news performed better than real news on Facebook

In October, the Department of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence issued a joint statement on behalf of the U.S. Intelligence Community accusing the Russian government of directing hacking operations on U.S. political organizations and individuals. Emails and documents hacked from the Democratic National Committee and Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta surfaced repeatedly on WikiLeaks during the campaign.
Last week, President Obama denounced the attention generated by fake news, saying, “If we are not serious about facts and what’s true and what’s not ... If we can’t discriminate between serious arguments and propaganda, then we have problems.”
Originally Published 12:42 p.m. ET Nov. 25, 2016
Updated 52 minutes ago
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"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby Nordic » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:39 pm

And a voice of reason from, of all places, Fortune magazine.

Traditionally right wing sources are now, often, far more "truthy" than the ones considered more traditionally "liberal".

Everything is getting mixed up in our world. All the old paradigms are being stood on their heads.

http://fortune.com/2016/11/25/russian-fake-news/

TECH MARKET INTELLIGENCE
No, Russian Agents Are Not Behind Every Piece of Fake News You See

by Mathew Ingram NOVEMBER 25, 2016

Making everyone who shares fake news part of a Russian conspiracy is not helpful.
One of the themes that has emerged during the controversy over “fake news” and its role in the election of Donald Trump is the idea that Russian agents of various kinds helped hack the process by fueling this barrage of false news. But is that really true?

In a recent story, the Washington Post says that this is definitely the case, based on information provided by two groups of what the paper calls “independent researchers.” But the case starts to come apart at the seams the more you look at it.

One group is associated with the Foreign Policy Research Institute, a conservative think tank funded and staffed by proponents of the Cold War between the U.S. and Russia, which says it has been researching Russian propaganda since 2014.

The second group is something called PropOrNot, about which very little is known. Its website doesn’t name anyone who is associated with it, including the researchers who worked on the report. And the Post doesn’t name the group’s executive director, whom it quotes, because it says he is afraid of “being targeted by Russia’s legions of skilled hackers.”

PropOrNot’s Twitter TWTR -0.88% account, which tweets and retweets anti-Russian sentiments from a variety of sources, has only existed since August of this year. And an article announcing the launch of the group on its website is dated last month.

According to the description, PropOrNot includes an unidentified number of “concerned American citizens with a wide range of backgrounds and expertise, including professional experience in computer science, statistics, public policy, and national security affairs.”

The group has a web-browser plug-in that is supposed to highlight sources of Russian propaganda online, but a number of observers on Twitter noted that this blacklist of sites includes several legitimate left-wing news sites such as CounterPunch and Truth Out.

A number of the “allies” that PropOrNot lists on its website—including the investigative blogger Eliot Higgins, who runs a research entity called BellingCat that has used crowdsourcing to track Russian government activity in Ukraine—said they have never heard of the group.

And what about the evidence of this orchestrated Russian intelligence effort to hack the outcome of the American election? Much of it seems flimsy at best.

The researchers with the Foreign Policy Research Institute recently published a report entitled “Trolling for Trump: How Russia Is Trying to Destroy Our Democracy.” The article describes a network of social-media accounts the authors say are being used by Russian agents to sow discord and “destroy Americans’ confidence in their system of government.”

Accounts run by or associated with Russia Today, Sputnik and other state-controlled entities are a fairly obvious source of this kind of thing. But it’s the attempt to broaden this into a nefarious global scheme that weakens the group’s argument.

For example, the article refers to what it calls “useful idiots” as being part of this campaign, a group that includes any social-media accounts which “regurgitate Russian themes and ‘facts’ without necessarily taking direction from Russia, or collaborating in a fully informed manner.”

The problem with this description is that it could theoretically include anyone on any social-media platform who shares news based on a click-bait headline. The PropOrNot article, which the Post said it was given prior to publication, reportedly says the Russian campaign worked by “harnessing the online world’s fascination with ‘buzzy’ content that is surprising and emotionally potent, and tracks with popular conspiracy theories.”

As we know, this describes millions of people who use Twitter and Facebook FB -0.38% . Are they part of the problem? Clearly. Are they Russian dupes? That seems like a stretch. What the report seems to be saying is that Russia took advantage of the social web’s desire to just share things without reading them. It may be true, but so does every other media outlet.


There’s also little data available on the PropOrNot report, which describes a network of 200 sites who it says are “routine peddlers of Russian propaganda,” which have what it calls a “combined audience of 15 million Americans.” How is that audience measured? We don’t know. Stories promoted by this network were shared 213 million times, it says. How do we know this? That’s unclear.

That number is almost certainly inflated by the inclusion of The Drudge Report, a right-wing aggregator that is also one of the most popular websites in the world, with an estimated 1.5 billion monthly pageviews, which puts it ahead of both Yahoo YHOO -0.22% and Google GOOGL 0.16% .

In effect, both of these groups want to portray anyone who shared a salacious but untrue news story about Hillary Clinton as an agent of an orchestrated Russian intelligence campaign.

Has the rise of fake news played into the hands of those who want to spread disinformation? Sure it has. But connecting hundreds of Twitter accounts into a dark web of Russian-controlled agents, along with any website that sits on some poorly thought-out blacklist, seems like the beginnings of a conspiracy theory, rather than a scientific analysis of the problem.

Last edited by Nordic on Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:21 pm

The Rich and the Corporate remain in their hundred-year fever visions of Bolsheviks taking their stuff - JackRiddler
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby dada » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:34 pm

Have I mentioned that I work for the upcoming alien invasion by the Robot god Zarzon and his floating citadels? No? With all of this important stuff going on, it must have slipped my mind.

Robot God Zarzon's citadels will arrive above the surface of the planet, and his kil-bots and sex-cyborgs will turn all sentient life into patterned energy, which is the food of the Robot God. You see. So basically some of the humans, a bunch of dolphins, and most of the crows and cats.

My job is to separate the sentient from the stupid before Zarzon arrives. The 'wheat from the chaff,' as it were. Robot God Zarzon wants only the highest quality minds. Think wagyu beef, not burger king.

So, the followers of Zarzon have been running a secret campaign. Here's how it works:

We track any social-media accounts which regurgitate themes and ‘facts.' Anyone on any social-media platform who shares news based on a click-bait headline.

As we know, this describes the millions of people who use Twitter and Facebook. Are they part of the problem? Clearly. Not worthy food for Zarzon.

The campaign works by harnessing the online world’s fascination with ‘buzzy’ content that is surprising and emotionally potent. Now, you may be saying to yourself, "Is he pulling my leg? Is he really working for robot god Zarzon? That seems like a stretch. What he seems to be saying is that they're taking advantage of the social web’s desire to just share things. Every media outlet does that."

To that I say: muahaha.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:19 pm

Well I wouldn't bother except I just went after this very piece (OP) in another venue, as follows. I guess it's making the rounds.

Starts so well! Then constructs a group labeled "neoliberal" that rarely exists in exactly the form described, using cliches not about bankers or technocrats abut about Daily Show watchers, etc. (2.5 million people?) Effectively contributes to creating the form if not the fact of divides it claims. I don't call all Trump voters fascists, I can hear the racism and fascism from Trump, and those who didn't hear it have a bigger problem than insulating themselves in an echo chamber.

Following part does the work. Unquestionably? "No other political group arbitrary labels"? No other, no other? The problems of the public square and the current media landscape originated there and there alone? Basically aiming to construct Trumpets as just regular folk stuck and puzzled about why they're called names and look to the laughable Left-Trumpet front, not so subtly. (In which the lamb would lie down with the lion, and wake up as breakfast.)

The money quote demonizing a "neoliberal" center previously defined as caricatures of hipsters and Huffpo readers:

But all things are not equal; the neoliberals are unquestionably the worst. No other political group arbitrarily labels those who disagree with its ideology as fascists and Nazis, and then refuses to listen to anything they say because “I’ll be damned if I’ll sit and listen to a bunch of fascists and Nazis.” No other political group dismisses any news media outside of its preferred echo chamber as “fake news”. No other political group is still trying to claim that WikiLeaks did something wrong by sharing the truth with the American people. No other political group scoffs at and dismisses any story that they haven’t seen discussed inside their own personal echo chamber. No other political group resorts to bullying and ad hominem attacks to anywhere near the extent that Clinton liberals do.

It is only the neoliberals, the Democratic party loyalists that are doing these things. But since they’re a massive group right smack in the middle of the political spectrum, with the Republicans and Libertarians on the right and the Berners, Greens, socialists and progressives on the left, it’s putting a massive wobble on political dialogue all across the board. Sick of being abused and bullied by Clinton Democrats, many leftists have just stopped talking to anyone outside their circle, except maybe to the deplorables, who at least treat them kindly. Sick of being told that they’re racists, fascists and Nazis, people who supported Donald Trump for president have done the same, pulling away into their own segregated circles while trying to avoid the onslaught of attacks, fearmongering and censorship. And right there in between is the political group that’s causing it all, happily feeling righteous and validated in their little echo chambers while laughing away at the latest episode of The Daily Show.


I am not in an echo chamber. I read an absolutely remarkable range of materials. I like finding first sources on everything. I know Trump voters. I have always or long known most of the Trump voters I know. They're in my family and such. They tend to be very echo-chambered and don't really give a shit if they're being lectured too by "Hillbots" or the like. The mythic trope of liberals being snooty at them is not what made them vote for Trump. Or rather, it's something that lives in their head and is thought to be lecturing them, they are not actually encountering in real life. So this bozo isn't particularly convincing. Spectacular start to it, though

"Leaving the echo chamber" may be a lot like breaking up the supposedly bad "choir." Disassociate, disorganize. Forget your friends and your group think, adopt a Trump voter today and pretend there's a middle ground between whatever you think as a leftist and the wall they want to see built, etc.

.
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:48 pm

Spectacular OP. Thanks, Nordic. Nice and concise.
I'm back, Jack!
Is it starting to sink in that you are directly responsible for El Trumpino yet? You, plus the other guys who consistently and relentlessly slur anyone who disagrees with you - as a Fascist or a Nazi? I really can't help but marvel at the job you and AD did here at RI. First class. I'm not, in any way, suggesting it was orchestrated or organised, at all. But very effective, nonetheless. So, what's next up - the call to civil war - or race war? Do tell.
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby Nordic » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:17 pm

coffin_dodger » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:48 pm wrote:Spectacular OP. Thanks, Nordic. Nice and concise.
I'm back, Jack!
Is it starting to sink in that you are directly responsible for El Trumpino yet? You, plus the other guys who consistently and relentlessly slur anyone who disagrees with you - as a Fascist or a Nazi? I really can't help but marvel at the job you and AD did here at RI. First class. I'm not, in any way, suggesting it was orchestrated or organised, at all. But very effective, nonetheless. So, what's next up - the call to civil war - or race war? Do tell.


Uh ... who you talkin to?
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby Nordic » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:19 pm

Regarding THE LIST:

Pure McCarthyism.

Terrifying.
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:31 pm

Nordic » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:19 pm wrote:Regarding THE LIST:

Pure McCarthyism.

Terrifying.


THE LIST is a list of these are sources "we" do not like because of what "they" might put on the internet and "we" don't want others to read.

There is no core to THE LIST.

I think one can be certain that the Russians would be more skillful in the subtle arts of propaganda.

Most concerning as the folks that are pushing this bullshit are those that claim to be on average the brighter and more enlightened (and "they" may be) among the USA population.

Dangerous yet pathetic.
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby Jerky » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:19 am

But all of those ARE lie-filled shit-posting sites that you can't trust farther than you can throw Breitbart's bloated carcass.

J.

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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby Jerky » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:25 am

Terrifying?

I think you may need to toughen up a titch.

McCarthyism? And a PURE strain of it, at that?

I suggest you go back and learn your history to find out what McCarthy did, how it all unfolded, the ramifications, etc. I suggest using as many books from around the era as you can find (that is, unless you believe the Mandela Effect has changed them all using stolen angelic technology or something).

And, yes, that IS a 'thing' being pushed by some of the sites on the list in question.

As it stands, this is nothing but a list put together by someone making a list of alleged "news" websites that are actually filled with nonsense and bullshit. MAYBE Drudge doesn't deserve to be there (although considering the vile slant he puts on things, and the way he's been vectoring Alex Jones into the mainstream, he probably deserves no quarter).

J.

Nordic » 26 Nov 2016 01:19 wrote:Regarding THE LIST:

Pure McCarthyism.

Terrifying.
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby divideandconquer » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:09 am

Jerkey, you are funny. Even though I disagree with almost everything you post, I always laugh out loud. Thanks for that. :bigsmile
'I see clearly that man in this world deceives himself by admiring and esteeming things which are not, and neither sees nor esteems the things which are.' — St. Catherine of Genoa
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Re: The "Fake News" conspiracy.

Postby Sounder » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:15 am

But all things are not equal; the neoliberals are unquestionably the worst. No other political group arbitrarily labels those who disagree with its ideology as fascists and Nazis, and then refuses to listen to anything they say because “I’ll be damned if I’ll sit and listen to a bunch of fascists and Nazis.” No other political group dismisses any news media outside of its preferred echo chamber as “fake news”. No other political group is still trying to claim that WikiLeaks did something wrong by sharing the truth with the American people. No other political group scoffs at and dismisses any story that they haven’t seen discussed inside their own personal echo chamber. No other political group resorts to bullying and ad hominem attacks to anywhere near the extent that Clinton liberals do.


I agree with this writer that the neo-liberal group drives a false labeling followed by a no-platform strategy. But some of the most adroit practitioners of the strategy would swear up and down that they are not neo-liberals. :wink
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