David Brock, Invasion 4Chan, the Alt-Right, & Pizzagate

[guruilla]

Why are people discussing Pizzagate as if it was proven to be "fake news," & then in the same breadth denying that RI is a valid petri dish for showing the results of massive ideologically-fueled engine of disinformation to prevent open conversation?



Seriously? Att: mod?

There's a 52-page thread discussing Pizzagate which (AFAIK) the dissenters here have been careful not to venture onto.

It's a Brockian moment.

[Joe Hillshoist]

“What happened today demonstrates that promoting false and reckless conspiracy theories comes with consequences,” Alefantis wrote in a statement after the shooting.

From some article about the shooting.

So what do we think about that comment?

[seemslikeadream]

your the one that had to start another thread

everything is fine till the shooting starts

Why are people discussing Pizzagate as if it was proven to be "fake news," & then in the same breadth denying that RI is a valid petri dish for showing the results of massive ideologically-fueled engine of disinformation to prevent open conversation?



Seriously? Att: mod?

There's a 52-page thread discussing Pizzagate which (AFAIK) the dissenters here have been careful not to venture onto.

It's a Brockian moment.

[brekin]

Why are people discussing Pizzagate as if it was proven to be "fake news," & then in the same breadth denying that RI is a valid petri dish for showing the results of massive ideologically-fueled engine of disinformation to prevent open conversation?

Seriously? Att: mod?
There's a 52-page thread discussing Pizzagate which (AFAIK) the dissenters here have been careful not to venture onto.
It's a Brockian moment.

Maybe you should examine why you think "that RI is a valid petri dish" at all for your experiments?
Perhaps that is a better question to meditate on?
(fwiw my bias is I'm agnostic on Pizzagate myself.)



You can justify why you think it is worth examining and speculating on. That's fine.
But you can't test a hypothesis on real people and prove anything without side effects and casualties.
There will be blow back in attempting to "show[ing] the results of massive ideologically-fueled engine of disinformation to prevent open conversation" has taken place at RI.
And frankly, I doubt your hands are competent enough to prevent, if not exacerbate it.

So, the RI grant committee is going to have to deny your request to run experimental trials on members.
Sorry, but your project has been:

[seemslikeadream]

Seriously you named this thread Pizzagate

It's a Brockian moment.

no it's a second pizza gate thread moment with a side topping of potential mass shooting

Why are people discussing Pizzagate as if it was proven to be "fake news," & then in the same breadth denying that RI is a valid petri dish for showing the results of massive ideologically-fueled engine of disinformation to prevent open conversation?



Seriously? Att: mod?

There's a 52-page thread discussing Pizzagate which (AFAIK) the dissenters here have been careful not to venture onto.

It's a Brockian moment.

[guruilla]

Not sure if the material's been fully digested at this stage but then it's a lot to swallow (I never even believed in the reality of ideological principles as motivations for behaviors to begin with, so maybe that gives me a slight advantage, I don't know; possibly the reverse?)

Alt-Right online may be a smaller niche in personnel, but unfortunately it's a real outbreak from real idiots just like many you may know in real life.

This misses the thrust of the argument by a wide margin. First of, it's not either/or; if the Brocktopus knew there were real neo-Nazis et al in 4chan, then wouldn't one way to stir them into action be to proceed exactly as it did?

But to really take on the implications of this sort of deep spin background, IMO, is to question what we think we know about "real idiots," real racists, real Nazis, real liberals, period, and not just online either (there were AFK trolls long before the online kind). We just don't know. Anyway the argument isn't that the alt-alt-right was created whole cloth out of nothing, that Brock essentially pulled it (& maybe Donald Trump while he was at it?) out of his ass; obviously it's a lot more complex than that. It's (to use a fancy turn of phrase) psycho-social engineering. Herding.

Here's some more supporting data, re: journalists caught colluding with Clinton campaign. A reddit post, copied here, gives a long list of names with links to Wikileaks-sourced emails showing the journalists' recruitment. Is it possible to track each of them seeding the alt-right/racist/anti-Semitic memeplex?

Maggie Haberman New York Times DNC Leak
John Harwood CNBC Chief Washington Correspondent, New York Times political writer Wikileaks
Wolf Blitzer CNN News Anchor Wikileaks
Cecilia Vega ABC Wikileaks
David Muir ABC Wikileaks
Diane Sawyer ABC Wikileaks
George Stephanopoulos ABC Wikileaks
Jon Karl ABC Wikileaks
John Heillman Bloomberg Wikileaks
Mark Halperin Bloomberg Wikileaks
Norah O'Donnell CBS Wikileaks
Vicki Gordon CBS Wikileaks
Brianna Keilar CNN Wikileaks
David Chalian CNN Wikileaks
Gloria Borger CNN Wikileaks
Jeff Zeleny CNN Wikileaks
John Berman CNN Wikileaks
Kate Bouldan CNN Wikileaks
Mark Preston CNN Wikileaks
Sam Feist CNN Wikileaks
Jackie Kucinich Daily Beast Wikileaks
Mike Feldman GPG Wikileaks
Whitney Snyder Huffington Post Wikileaks
Betsy Fisher Martin MORE Wikileaks
Alex Wagner MSNBC Wikileaks
Beth Fouhy MSNBC Wikileaks
Phil Griffin MSNBC Wikileaks
Rachel Maddow MSNBC Wikileaks
Rachel Racusen MSNBC Wikileaks
Savannah Gutherie NBC Wikileaks
Ryan Liza New Yorker Wikileaks
Amy Chozik New York Times Wikileaks
Gail Collins New York Times Wikileaks
Jonathan Martin New York Times Wikileaks
Pat Healey New York Times Wikileaks
Sandra Sobieraj Westfall PEOPLE Wikileaks
Glenn Thrush POLITICO Wikileaks
Mike Allen POLITICO Wikileaks
Alyssa Mastramonoco VICE Wikileaks
Jon Allen VOX Wikileaks
Megyn Kelly FOX Wikileaks
Brent Budowsky The Hill Wikileaks
Mark Leibovich New York Times Wikileaks
Kenneth Vogel POLITICO Wikileaks
Karen Tumulty Washington Post Wikileaks
Chuck Todd MSNBC Wikileaks
Jessica Valenti Guardian Wikileaks
Jamil Smith New Republic Wikileaks
Sady Doyle Guardian Wikileaks
Monisha Rajesh Guardian Daily Caller

Edit #1: For people wondering how attending a private party at a campaign managers house where fine food and drink was served is collusion and a breach of journalist ethics here is the Society of Professional Journalists code of ethics website: http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

Edit #2: False_Song submits: Here is the screencap of the event memo from one of the problem press events that is proof of ethical violations: . I'm still verifying but I believe it is accurate.

Starting at the top of that list (Maggie Haberman):

Donald Trump’s Star of David Tweet Came From a Fringe Website, a Report Says
By MATT FLEGENHEIMER and MAGGIE HABERMAN JULY 3, 2016

The Star of David imagery used in a Twitter post by Donald J. Trump this weekend had previously appeared on a message board known for anti-Semitism and white supremacy, as well as on a Twitter account with a history of racially charged comments, according to a report.

It is unclear where the Trump campaign discovered the image, which placed the shape of the Star of David beside a picture of Hillary Clinton with text that read, “Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!” and a background of $100 bills. The post on Saturday by Mr. Trump prompted immediate criticism, fueling accusations that Mr. Trump was playing to stereotypes of Jews.



But a report on Sunday by the news website Mic traced the image to a website for the “alt right,” an internet-based movement associated with white nationalism, where it appeared as early as June 22. The origin of the image appeared to be a Twitter account that has frequently criticized Mrs. Clinton, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, and has posted caustic and violent messages about Muslims, refugees and race.

For much of his campaign, Mr. Trump has been criticized for appearing to accommodate fringe groups and making comments that heartened them. He has also reposted encouraging messages from white supremacists.

Mr. Trump received criticism this year after he initially declined to disavow the support of David Duke, the white nationalist and former member of the Ku Klux Klan, before eventually distancing himself.

“I do not know that there’s a precedent for this,” Jonathan Greenblatt, the chief executive of the Anti-Defamation League, said in an interview.

“I think it’s certainly long overdue for Donald Trump as the presumptive G.O.P. nominee and as a person in the public square to reject — to flat-out, to firmly, to forcefully reject — the anti-Semites and the racists with a clarity and energy he’s brought to the campaign trail when going after other candidates,” Mr. Greenblatt said.

Mr. Greenblatt added that research had shown that white supremacists interpret Mr. Trump’s “hesitant disavowals” as a “green light” for their views.

Conservatives opposed to Mr. Trump have shuddered at what they consider to be unsubtle dog whistles, a term for coded messages to a political subgroup, from the candidate.

“A Star of David, a pile of cash, and suggestions of corruption,” Erick Erickson, a conservative commentator, posted on Twitter. “Donald Trump again plays to the white supremacists.”

Mr. Trump’s supporters have cast such reactions as examples of excessive sensitivity and political correctness. The fallout from this flap has been no exception.

On Sunday, on CNN, Corey Lewandowski, Mr. Trump’s former campaign manager, called the reaction “political correctness run amok.”

“A tweet is a simple tweet,” he said. “The bottom line is, you can read into things that are not there.”

Aides to Mrs. Clinton, who is a Methodist, have so far declined to comment.

Mr. Trump often speaks of his close ties to Jewish people. His daughter Ivanka converted to Judaism when she married Jared Kushner, who has become a close campaign adviser.

On Sunday, Mr. Trump called Elie Wiesel, the Holocaust survivor and Nobel Prize winner who died Saturday, a “great man.”

“The world is a better place because of him and his belief that good can triumph over evil!” Mr. Trump posted on Twitter.

At a funeral service for Mr. Wiesel on Sunday, Ted Koppel revealed that Mr. Wiesel recently had lunch with Mr. Trump at the candidate’s invitation, according to two people at the memorial.

“I am sure he did not love Donald Trump,” said Francine Klagsbrun, an author and a friend of Mr. Wiesel’s. “I am sure he would not be voting for Trump,” she said. “But he was just an open person who was open to everybody.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/04/us/po ... e-haberman

No. 2 (John Harwood):

Donald Trump’s Admiration of Putin’s Ruthless Use of Power
By JOHN HARWOOD SEPT. 13, 2016

His embrace of Mr. Putin, however, fits no obvious political strategy. Staunch opposition to Moscow united the Republican Party throughout the Cold War.

The collapse of what Ronald Reagan called the Evil Empire only changed so much; four years ago, the Republican nominee, Mitt Romney, described Russia as America’s top geopolitical foe.

Nor does Mr. Putin have a significant American constituency. In an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll from May, just 8 percent of American adults over all, and 8 percent of Republicans, held a favorable view of the Russian leader, a former K.G.B. agent.

So when Mr. Trump praises Mr. Putin, as he did last week, for his “very strong control over a country,” Republican political and policy experts explain it in purely personal terms: Mr. Trump admires the Russian leader’s ruthless use of power, even if it conflicts with American democratic principles.

“He sees a man who, aspirationally, he would like to be like,” said Danielle Pletka, who directs foreign and defense policy studies at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. Referring to Mr. Trump, she added: “His instincts are authoritarian, and dangerous.”

Peter D. Feaver, a Duke University professor who served on the National Security Council under President George W. Bush, described Mr. Trump’s admiration as “deeply troubling.” He recently joined 49 other Republican foreign policy veterans in a public letter that condemned Mr. Trump for lacking “basic knowledge about, and belief in, the U.S. Constitution, U.S. laws and U.S. institutions.”

Mr. Trump has publicly urged Russian hackers, whom American intelligence officials believe broke into Democratic Party computers, to gain access to Hillary Clinton’s email account. He notes that he could team up with Mr. Putin, who “says great things about me,” to wipe out Islamic State terrorists.

“Putin is playing him” for his own reasons, Mr. Feaver said. Those reasons, he added, include the Russian leader’s hope that Mr. Trump will weaken NATO, reduce America’s role in global affairs, and leave Moscow a freer hand.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/us/po ... hn-harwood

3. Wolf Blitzer:

RNC spokesperson Sean Spicer snapped at Wolf Blitzer on Tuesday when the CNN host repeatedly asked about President-elect Donald Trump’s stance on Neo-Nazis.

Blitzer wondered if Trump should deliver a speech specifically to denounce white supremacists, even though the president-elect has already condemned the alt-right movement.

“When is it going to be enough? He has condemned everyone that has come out,” Spicer said. “At some point you’ve got to take his position and move on.”

But Blitzer didn’t move on, asking why Neo-Nazi groups support Trump.

“I don’t know. That’s really not my focus, figuring out why certain groups support him,” Spicer said. “He won the election. His focus is on making the country better.”

Spicer said asking the same question over and over again is getting “preposterous,” to which Blitzer said it doesn’t seem like Trump “goes out of his way to express his outrage” at White Supremacy groups.

“You’ve asked me eight times, the same question. I’ve told you what his position is,” Spicer said.

http://www.thewrap.com/wolf-blitzer-sea ... -neo-nazi/

And so on. I dont have time to run through all the names, tho there is this from The Daily Beast’s Jackie Kucinich:

Trump’s Campaign Chairman Paul Manafort Has Worked For "A Litany Of Dictators And Terrible Human Beings"

Kucinich: “It’s Hard To Think That Manafort Is Terribly Worried About His Reputation Given Who He’s Worked For In The Past”

Video ››› August 15, 2016 9:19 AM EDT ››› MEDIA MATTERS STAFF

JACKIE KUCINICH: It's hard to think that Manafort is terribly worried about his reputation given who he's worked for in the past. I mean, it's a litany of dictators and terrible human beings. So, it's not really -- I'm surprised he's so concerned about that. That said, you know what this does, this muddies the water. They've made a lot of accusations against the Clintons and the Clinton Foundation and some of the people they've dealt with. And I think that, at its core, this goes to that argument. And, you know, look at your campaign chair. Look who he's dealt with. Look what he's done. And I think it really does undermine that attack by the Trump campaign.

http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/08/1 ... ors/212396

And this:

The Daily Beast's Jackie Kucinich: Trump Has “Surrounded Himself” With “Conspiracy Theorists”

Kucinich: “I Don't Think It's In Him To Cast Aside Conspiracy Theories”

Video ››› May 4, 2016 9:35 AM EDT ››› MEDIA MATTERS STAFF

JACKIE KUCINICH: Yeah, I don't think Donald Trump ditches the ridiculous. I don't think it's in him to cast aside conspiracy theories, because that is -- it plays well to the people that like him. So I don't see that going away. Particularly the people that he's surrounded himself with sort of indulge in that sort of thing. He met with Ed Klein the other day who writes Hillary Clinton fan fiction.

BERMAN: Conspiracy theories.

KUCINICH: Conspiracy theorists. Yeah, so there's that.

http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/05/0 ... sts/210215

(Note the Ed Klein ^^^ reference. He was a specific target of Brock's because of his book.)

I am sure it's not really any surprise that most or all MSM journalists are bought & sold. But that they are working together, along with literally countless other on and offline shills, all of whom are hiding what they are and many of whom are pretending to be the very opposite of what they say they are, all to the end of creating a narrative and a social climate to pull regular people across the political & social spectrum irresistibly into, so that they find themselves unwitting actors inside that fake drama bringing about real world consequences, well, it's starting to make Westworld look like metaphoric realism/revelation of the method....

[Luther Blissett]

Would you expect Clinton's propagandists to not pick the lowest-hanging fruit? The Star of David graphic did come from a white supremacist website.

[seemslikeadream]

The Latest: Son of Trump adviser has sent posts on Pizzagate

Edgar Maddison Welch, 28 of Salisbury, N.C., surrenders to police Sunday, Dec. 4, 2016, in Washington. Welch, who said he was investigating a conspiracy theory about Hillary Clinton running a child sex ring out of a pizza place, fired an assault rifle inside the restaurant on Sunday injuring no one, police and news reports said. (Sathi Soma via AP) (Associated Press)
By Associated Press December 5 at 3:15 PM
WASHINGTON — The Latest on the arrest of a man who police say fired shots in a pizzeria while investigating a fake news story (all times local):

3 p.m.

The conspiracy theory involving a fake news story that links Hillary Clinton and a D.C. pizza shop to a child exploitation ring has at least one prominent adherent connected to President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team.

Michael Flynn Jr. is an adviser to his father, Michael Flynn, whom Trump selected to serve as national security adviser.

Flynn Jr. has sent numerous posts on Twitter about the conspiracy theories of Pizzagate, a fake news story that suggests a pizza shop called Comet Ping Pong plays a key role in a child sex trafficking ring run by Clinton. Police say the conspiracy theory led to violence Sunday when a North Carolina man fired a rifle in the restaurant as he sought to investigate the accusations. No one was injured, and the man was arrested.

Flynn Jr., who has accompanied his father to presidential transition meetings inside Trump Tower and lists the presidential transition website as part of his Twitter bio, tweeted Sunday night that, “Until #Pizzagate proven to be false, it’ll remain a story.”

Trump’s team had no immediate response to questions about the conspiracy theory or the younger Flynn’s role in the presidential transition.

___

2 p.m.

The bizarre conspiracy theory known as Pizzagate that police say led to a nonfatal shooting at a pizza shop in the nation’s capital has affected several area businesses.

Politics and Prose is an independent bookstore a few doors down from Comet Ping Pong, where a North Carolina man was arrested Sunday after police say he fired a rifle while trying to investigate a fake news story about Hillary Clinton running a child sex ring.

Bookstore co-owners Bradley Graham and Lissa Muscatine said that while Comet Ping Pong has found itself at the center of the conspiracy theory, the bookstore and other businesses on the block also received threats and menacing phone calls in recent weeks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... c35f184918

[guruilla]

Would you expect Clinton's propagandists to not pick the lowest-hanging fruit? The Star of David graphic did come from a white supremacist website.

Luther: are you even reading this thread?

Dear God: where's Mac when we need him?

[mentalgongfu2]

massive ideologically-fueled engine of disinformation to prevent open conversation

[Iamwhomiam]

guruilla » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:59 pm

Dear God: where's Mac when we need him?

He's busy right now. He's a research subject in a different forum.

[kool maudit]

The loose collection of writers that contains Infowars and the like at one end and the Alt-Right at the other is in essence the counterculture of this moment. There may be a left counterculture to come but it is made more difficult by the ease with which neoliberal power structures co-opt the surface-level concerns of left rhetoric (without the economic substance).

The value of countercultures is that they torment power. It will be challenging, for men and women of the left, to navigate such torments when they come from sources that espouse views such as racism, sexism, basically all the -isms and -phobias.

Funny ol' world, innit?

It is not difficult for me to entertain the notion, given the things we discuss here and elsewhere, that child abuse and sacrifice occurs at high levels in DC – point finale. This remains true whether the shitstorm of hastily-gathered quasi-evidence and strange hints comes from the right or the left. The important thing is it comes from a place hostile to the currently dominant power or worldview.

[Searcher08]

In case you Tl;DR
"Pizzagate is just dirty partisan politics to distract from "Hateful Fascist Trump. Look a Trump connection!"

If high quality 1080 multi-angle well video of Hilary cooking and eating children was found, the response here would be
"Well, no one likes that but... but... Trump! Trump Trump!!!"



@Kool
There is a big element of what you describe going on; there is a wellspring where a lot of this comes from and it is a reaction, rather than a coherent philosophy to an attitude perceived as being like a controlling mean vicious teacher. They have found that doing X infuriates the teacher. I would say very few believe X, but probably most just like getting the reaction and seeing the humour involved. Hence the existence of "SJW cringe" videos. The fact that people are hugely offended by them just ups the ante.

finally,
Anyone who says there is nothing to Pizzagate has not put the hours in on Voat to deep dive. Stuff such as ITZ ALL RACITZ or TRUMP HATES DEMS is as out of touch and arrogantly partisan as the Wapo.

The Latest: Son of Trump adviser has sent posts on Pizzagate

Edgar Maddison Welch, 28 of Salisbury, N.C., surrenders to police Sunday, Dec. 4, 2016, in Washington. Welch, who said he was investigating a conspiracy theory about Hillary Clinton running a child sex ring out of a pizza place, fired an assault rifle inside the restaurant on Sunday injuring no one, police and news reports said. (Sathi Soma via AP) (Associated Press)
By Associated Press December 5 at 3:15 PM
WASHINGTON — The Latest on the arrest of a man who police say fired shots in a pizzeria while investigating a fake news story (all times local):

3 p.m.

The conspiracy theory involving a fake news story that links Hillary Clinton and a D.C. pizza shop to a child exploitation ring has at least one prominent adherent connected to President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team.

Michael Flynn Jr. is an adviser to his father, Michael Flynn, whom Trump selected to serve as national security adviser.

Flynn Jr. has sent numerous posts on Twitter about the conspiracy theories of Pizzagate, a fake news story that suggests a pizza shop called Comet Ping Pong plays a key role in a child sex trafficking ring run by Clinton. Police say the conspiracy theory led to violence Sunday when a North Carolina man fired a rifle in the restaurant as he sought to investigate the accusations. No one was injured, and the man was arrested.

Flynn Jr., who has accompanied his father to presidential transition meetings inside Trump Tower and lists the presidential transition website as part of his Twitter bio, tweeted Sunday night that, “Until #Pizzagate proven to be false, it’ll remain a story.”

Trump’s team had no immediate response to questions about the conspiracy theory or the younger Flynn’s role in the presidential transition.

___

2 p.m.

The bizarre conspiracy theory known as Pizzagate that police say led to a nonfatal shooting at a pizza shop in the nation’s capital has affected several area businesses.

Politics and Prose is an independent bookstore a few doors down from Comet Ping Pong, where a North Carolina man was arrested Sunday after police say he fired a rifle while trying to investigate a fake news story about Hillary Clinton running a child sex ring.

Bookstore co-owners Bradley Graham and Lissa Muscatine said that while Comet Ping Pong has found itself at the center of the conspiracy theory, the bookstore and other businesses on the block also received threats and menacing phone calls in recent weeks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... c35f184918

[simian1]

It is not difficult for me to entertain the notion, given the things we discuss here and elsewhere, that child abuse and sacrifice occurs at high levels in DC – point finale. This remains true whether the shitstorm of hastily-gathered quasi-evidence and strange hints comes from the right or the left. The important thing is it comes from a place hostile to the currently dominant power or worldview.

Good post. I agree but they won't go after one of their ideological ilk like this, just as the left cannot accept pizzagate because of its origins and dissemination through the far right. Thats the power of mass mind control.

[simian1]

From a purely emotional standpoint the whole thing feels like an evil victory lap, a nicely timed psychological gotcha to put the icing on the most hate filled election in history. They have their artwork and their instagram photos out for anyone to see, if its a hoax the podestas are in on it. But nothing will come of this because half the people won't even look at it, and the other half are only looking because it makes them feel good, implicating their imaginary online ideological foes.