The Coming War on China

[SonicG]

With Trump in China, Taiwan worries about becoming a ‘bargaining chip’
“There were rumors that when China and the U.S. talk about the North Korea issue they would use Taiwan as a bargaining chip,” mainland affairs minister Katherine Chang told a visiting group of U.S. journalists on Monday, adding that the Taiwanese government was “cautiously optimistic” this would not happen.

The fear is some kind of trade involving U.S. support for Taiwan and Chinese ties with North Korea could be under discussion.

***
At first Trump defended his call and suggested that his administration’s position on the one-China policy would depend on whether he could “make a deal” with China on trade and other issues. Later, though, The U.S. president said he would not speak to the Taiwanese president again without checking with China first.

Now in Taiwan, many are worried about Trump’s plans. Analysts are paying close attention to his interactions with veteran foreign policy expert Henry Kissinger, with some suggesting that Kissinger is advocating that Trump make a major agreement on U.S.-China relations with Beijing.

Hsu, of the Taiwan Foundation, said that this was “just a rumor,” but added that there were real concerns that what lies behind Trump’s decision-making. “He is known for his transactional style of policymaking.”

***
Other factors add further uncertainty to the relationship. Trump has made clear repeatedly that trade imbalances are key points of tension with foreign allies: The United States has logged an average trade deficit of $5.4 billion with Taiwan over the past five years.

One way to address that would be for Taiwan to boost its defense spending, which is considered low by U.S. officials. It currently stands at around 2 percent of gross domestic product and lags far behind that of China, its primary geopolitical rival. “Taiwan must do better,” Jim Moriarty, chairman of the American Institute of Taiwan, said of the country’s defense spending during an event last month at Brookings.

***

“Many have debated here in Taiwan whether President Trump will trade Taiwan in exchange for China's position in North Korea,” Huang said. “But my hunch is that even if President Trump makes such an offer, President Xi would say no: ‘Taiwan is not in your hands. It’s in mine.’”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/wi ... ea7fecf158

Seems about par for the course. The Generals let Trump stumble and bumble through Asia, while greasing the wheels of international commerce...just let it slide...We still haven't even gotten to meeting yes/no with Putin...

[SonicG]

I have to admit I live a bit of a sheltered ex-pat life here, but there is definitely no Trump mania here (Saigon) and I really doubt it will amount to much in Hanoi (Dominos pizza employees notwithstanding).

Why Vietnam Loves Trump
It’s one of the only countries in the world where the president is popular. Will Trump return the love?
***
And while some Vietnamese saw Trump’s campaign bravado on China as reassuring, even exciting, others are nervous about his harsh words, his view of international affairs as a zero-sum game and his lack of political experience. “President Trump thinks he can stand up to China. That goes well with ordinary Vietnamese popular opinion,” says Ngo Vinh Long, a professor of history at the University of Maine who studies Vietnam and regional politics. “But this kind of attitude is scary to many people who are well educated or who are in the government because they think that, inadvertently, President Trump might provoke something with China that Vietnam itself cannot contain.”

One reason Trump remains popular despite all that is because he and the United States are covered very carefully by media outlets here, which are strictly controlled by the government. Thuy, the director of MDI, says that the long-term importance of the U.S.-Vietnam relationship leads Vietnamese state-run media to cover Trump positively or neutrally.
While Vietnamese newspapers have published stories about special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe into possible campaign collusion with Russia and the criticism of Trump from Senators Jeff Flake and Bob Corker, for instance, those stories are relatively few. “I think mainstream media [in Vietnam] avoids covering stories about personal issues to avoid insulting the U.S.,” she says. “They don’t want to cause any diplomatic troubles.”

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... noi-215809

Putin meeting is on then...?

MOSCOW, November 9. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin will meet with his US counterpart Donald Trump in Vietnam on Friday, November 10, Russian Presidential Aide Yuri Ushakov told reporters.
"The time [of the meeting] is being agreed on, it will take place on November 10," he said.
Ushakov earlier said that Putin and Trump could discuss at the meeting in Vietnam on the sidelines of the APEC summit the situation in Syria and on the Korean Peninsula and bilateral relations, which have reached a low point.


More:
http://tass.com/politics/974736

[SonicG]

pins and needles here folks...going out for French food, update later...

Kremlin spokesman on Trump-Putin meeting
From CNN's Emma Burrows

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told CNN that organizing a bilateral meeting between Putin and Trump is not working out.

“The problem is their schedules. Putin is busy here. Trump isn't here. Then Putin has bilateral meetings. Currently it's not been possible,” Peskov said.

The Kremlin has said Donald Trump will meet with Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of a forum in Vietnam "one way or another" despite "contradictory" information from the White House.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11 ... ay-anther/

[seemslikeadream]

thanks for the update


I think Putin really wants to show trump something

Well you can take it as a warning
Or take it anyway you like
It's the lightning, not the thunder
You never know where it's gonna strike


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeQDS7IHtUA&spfreload=10

[SonicG]

"How ya doing big guy? Been a while...Hope you are good..."



Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

Opinion: For Putin, the optics of not meeting Trump are bad

Putin likely will be offended by the non-meeting. It’s a dig. It’s one thing to show up late to a meeting after calling it — the Russian president shows up late to meetings all of the time — it’s another when you don’t show up at all. The Kremlin announced this meeting was going to happen — a big move for a cautious group of people that like to hedge their bets. President Trump said it would happen, and then it didn’t.

If Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s response to a state media reporter’s question about what had become of the meeting is any indication, the Russians already are fuming. “Why are you asking me? Ask the Americans. We heard Trump express the wish to meet Putin. I don’t know what the rest of his pencil-pushers are saying.”

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/trum ... es-it-mean

Kompromat a coming...

[SonicG]

Nobody puts...errrmm somebody put Trump in the corner...

[seemslikeadream]

[SonicG]

This is getting ridiculous...

From CNN's Dan Merica

President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin shook hands and spoke briefly before an Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) plenary session on Saturday in Da Nang, according to the USTV pool photographer in the room.

Trump, according to the report, entered the room, walked over to Putin and shook his hand before each took their seats. Trump sat next to Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang.

The report says the pool camera was blocked for much of this exchange. But a Reuters pool camera recorded the exchange.

....

President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke briefly as they walked into another Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) class photo on Saturday in Da Nang.

Flanked by sizable entourages, the two spoke for much of the walk down to a vista for another class photo. They stood next to each other in the back row on pre-determined spots.

The chat, while brief, looked friendly, with both leaders speaking with their hands.

This is the third time we have either seen or been told of Putin and Trump talking during the APEC summit.

Can't embed the gifs so go to the link:
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/09/polit ... index.html

Putin looks really desperate to get Trump alone for a meeting or something...

[SonicG]

See how this plays out...

Trump: Putin again denies meddling in 2016 election


HANOI, Vietnam (AP) -- President Donald Trump said Saturday that Russia's Vladimir Putin again denied interfering in the 2016 U.S. elections. But Trump declined to say whether he believed the Russian leader.

"He says he didn't meddle. I asked him again. You can only ask so many times," Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One on the trip to Hanoi, Vietnam. "Every time he sees me, he said: 'I didn't do that.' And I believe, I really believe that when he tells me that he means it."

Trump and Putin did not have a formal meeting while they were in Vietnam for an economic summit, but the two spoke informally several times and reached agreement on a number of principles for the future of war-torn Syria. But Trump made clear that the issue of Russian meddling in the election hovers over the leaders' relationship — Putin is "insulted" by the accusation, Trump said. In a blistering partisan attack, Trump accused Democrats of using the election issue to create a barrier between the U.S. and Russia as the nations work on crises in Syria and Ukraine.

"Having a good relationship with Russia's a great, great thing. And this artificial Democratic hit job gets in the way," Trump told reporters, once again casting doubt on the U.S. intelligence community's conclusion that Russia did try to interfere in the election. "People will die because of it."

Trump's suggestion that he may believe Putin over his own nation's intelligence community is certain to re-ignite the firestorm over the election meddling. Meanwhile, a special counsel investigation of potential collusion between Moscow and Trump campaign aides so far has resulted in two indictments for financial and other crimes unrelated to the campaign, as well as a guilty plea.

Trump said the probe into the election hacking was a "fake barrier" placed by Democrats that was hurting the United States' ability to have a relationship with Russia, a distraction that was putting lives at stake.

The Kremlin issued a statement Saturday saying that the leaders met during the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation conference in Denang and reached agreement on a number of principles for the future of the civil war-torn country now that the Islamic State group has largely been pushed out. Among the agreements' key points, according to the Russians, were an affirmation of de-escalation zones, a system to prevent dangerous incidents between American and Russian forces, and a commitment to a peaceful solution governed by a Geneva peace process.

The Kremlin quickly promoted the agreement as the White House stayed silent. Trump told reporters that the deal was reached "very quickly" and that it would save a number of lives. And he praised his relationship with Putin, saying "We seem to have a very good feeling for each other and a good relationship, considering we don't know each other well."

Snippets of video of conference events have shown Trump and Putin shaking hands and chatting, including during the world leaders' traditional group photo. The two walked together down a path to the photo site, conversing amiably, with Trump punctuating his thoughts with hand gestures and Putin smiling.

Journalists traveling with Trump were not granted access to any of the APEC events he participated in in the picturesque tropical seaside city.

White House officials worked quietly behind the scenes negotiating with the Kremlin over a formal meeting. The Russians raised expectations for such a session and Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One en route to Asia that it was "expected we'll meet with Putin" to discuss issues including ramping up pressure on North Korea to halt its nuclear and ballistic weapons program.As speculation built, the two sides tried to craft the framework of a deal on the future of Syria that Trump and Putin could announce in a formal bilateral meeting, according to two administration officials not authorized to speak publicly about private discussions.

Though North Korea and the Ukraine had been discussed, the two sides focused on trying to strike an agreement about a path to resolve Syria's civil war once the Islamic State group is defeated, according to officials. But the talks stalled and, minutes before Air Force One touched down in Vietnam, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters the meeting was off.

Putin and Trump crossed paths several times during the conference.

The two men, each wearing traditional blue Vietnamese shifts, shook hands and greeted one another as they stood side-by-side for the group photo of world leaders.

On Saturday, they were also seen shaking hands and speaking briefly during one meeting, according to a Fox News videographer who was the only American journalist allowed into the room. Trump and Putin were also seen chatting, with plenty of hand gestures from Trump, as they walked side by side to a dramatic vista overlooking the South China Sea for another group picture.

Trump who is on a lengthy Asia trip, attended meetings and a lunch Saturday before heading to the capital city of Hanoi for a state visit.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-putin- ... itics.html

[SonicG]

This week in defecting North Korean military...

Shots fired at DMZ as North Korean soldier defects to South
SEOUL (Reuters) - South Korean guards fired warning shots across the heavily militarized border with North Korea on Thursday as a soldier from the North defected in thick fog, complicating efforts to ease tensions over Pyongyang's nuclear and missile programs.

A South Korean defense ministry official said up to 20 warning shots were fired as North Korean troops approached too near the "military demarcation line" at the demilitarized zone (DMZ), apparently in search of the missing soldier.

Thursday's defection came about five weeks after a North Korean soldier suffered critical gunshot wounds during a defection dash across the border.

Two North Korean civilians were also found in a fishing boat on Wednesday and had sought to defect, officials in the South said.

That brings the total number of North Koreans who have defected by taking dangerous routes either directly across the border or by sea to 15 so far this year, including two other soldiers. That is three times the number last year, according to South Korean officials.

...
However, the North's state media released a statement sharply denying U.S. allegations this week that Pyongyang was behind a number of recent cyber attacks.

Washington has publicly blamed North Korean hackers for a cyber attack in May that crippled hospitals, banks and other companies. Researchers also say the North was likely behind attacks on virtual currency exchanges.

The military drills with the United States have also complicated relations with China. The proposed delay in drills was discussed during a summit between Moon and Chinese President Xi Jinping last week after the proposal was submitted to Washington, an official at the presidential Blue House said this week.

China and Russia have proposed a "freeze for freeze" arrangement under which North Korea would stop its nuclear and missile tests in exchange for a halt to the exercises, but there has been little interest from Washington or Pyongyang.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/north-korean ... 36241.html

That National Security statement a few days ago wagging some fingers at Russia and China got lost in the tax bill bruhaha, but it really is hard to tell what the US policy is regarding NorKor...Sleepyhead Tillerson mumbled something about direct negotiations I think. I think the crux here, as noted above, is the stopping of the military drills. Remember, they are done during those periods so that NorKor has to divert troops from rice planting/harvesting.

In case you missed this one:

(CNN)Parasitic worms and a chronic liver infection identified in a North Korean soldier who dramatically defected are providing clues into health conditions inside the secretive rogue state, experts said Wednesday.

The soldier was shot up to five times November 13 while making a run for the South Korean side of the border through the heavily fortified Demilitarized Zone, according to dramatic security video released this week.
North Korean soldiers fired at him about 40 times, hitting him with bullets from both pistols and an AK-47, violating the armistice agreement between the two countries after the Korean War, the UN Command said.
The defector, whose last name is Oh, required emergency treatment for his wounds, including extensive surgery. Doctors discovered a large number and multiple forms of parasitic worms.
Some of the parasites removed were as long as 27 centimeters (more than 10 inches), according to the South Korean doctors who treated him. One type of worm they discovered is typically found in dogs.
"In my 20 years as a surgeon, I have only seen something like this in a medical textbook," Lee Cook-Jong, the man's surgeon, told reporters on November 15.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/22/healt ... index.html

[SonicG]

Speaking of apologists...There seems to be little concern or regard for whatever machinations of the other giant nuclear weapons state of China...The Russian economy is puny compared to China, so imagine what their cyber-agents are up to...Nonetheless, I can almost guarantee they will continue to give the finger to the US regarding happenings in Asia and Trump will be powerless, especially if the Mueller and "anti-Mueller" investigations continue to ramp up...But also because no one wants to poke the Asian economic juggernaut...

Trump 'disappointed' in China over NKorea sanctions

Washington (AFP) - US President Donald Trump -- who has often hailed China's efforts to put pressure on North Korea -- hit out at Beijing Thursday for failing to cut off Pyongyang's oil supply, saying such moves prevented a "friendly solution" of the crisis.

"Caught RED HANDED - very disappointed that China is allowing oil to go into North Korea," Trump said on Twitter.

"There will never be a friendly solution to the North Korea problem if this continues to happen!"
Trump later hinted at the possibility of trade action against China in an interview with The New York Times.

"Oil is going into North Korea. That wasn't my deal!" he said. "If they don't help us with North Korea, then I do what I've always said I want to do."

Describing the Kim regime as a "nuclear menace" that is "no good for China," he added that Xi Jinping's government has to "help us much more."

Trump did not directly threaten to launch military action to resolve the crisis, but in recent months, Washington has promised to "utterly destroy" the regime of Kim Jong-Un if war breaks out.

South Korean newspaper Chosun Ilbo, citing government sources in Seoul, reported earlier this week that US satellites had spotted Chinese ships selling oil to North Korean vessels dozens of times since October.

It was not immediately clear if Trump was referring to the report or US intelligence in his tweet, or if he was accusing China -- the North's main ally -- of directly violating sanctions targeting Pyongyang.

A State Department official later said the US was aware that "certain vessels have engaged in UN-prohibited activities, including ship-to-ship transfers of refined petroleum and the transport of coal from North Korea."

"We have evidence that some of the vessels engaged in these activities are owned by companies in several countries, including China," the senior official said, adding that oil is vital to the regime and its military, while coal exports have been a primary means of generating revenue.

"We condemn these acts and hope that any UNSC members, including China, work more closely together to shut down smuggling activities," the official added.

- 'Do more' -

Last week, the United Nations Security Council -- with China's backing -- slapped new sanctions on North Korea that will restrict oil supplies vital for Pyongyang's missile and nuclear programs.

The US-drafted resolution bans the supply of nearly 75 percent of refined oil products to North Korea, puts a cap on crude deliveries and orders North Korean nationals working abroad to be sent back by the end of 2019.

The UN Security Council on Thursday meanwhile denied international port access to four North Korean ships suspected of carrying or having transported goods banned by international sanctions targeting Pyongyang, diplomats told AFP.

The ban of the four vessels brings the UN's total number of blocked ships to eight. The United States requested the most recent ban along with measures targeting ships registered in other countries, diplomats said on condition of anonymity.

In recent months, Trump's administration has praised Beijing for its efforts to tame North Korea. China has voted in favor of three UN Security Council resolutions strengthening sanctions on the North since the summer.

Washington remains convinced that only pressure from the government of Chinese President Xi Jinping will persuade Kim to back down and negotiate an end to the nuclear standoff.

Beijing "has applied certain import bans and sanctions, but it could and should do more," US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Wednesday in a column published in The New York Times.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-disapp ... 17986.html

[seemslikeadream]

'Leave immediately': US Navy plane warned over South China Sea

CNN gets rare access on board a US military surveillance flight over the hotly-disputed islands in the South China Sea.
Above the South China Sea (CNN)High above one of the most hotly contested regions in the world, CNN was given a rare look Friday at the Chinese government's rapidly expanding militarization of the South China Sea

Aboard a US Navy P-8A Poseidon reconnaissance plane, CNN got a view from 16,500 feet of low-lying coral reefs turned into garrisons with five-story buildings, large radar installations, power plants and runways sturdy enough to carry large military aircraft.

During the flight the crew received six separate warnings from the Chinese military, telling them they were inside Chinese territory and urging them to leave.

"Leave immediately and keep out to avoid any misunderstanding," a voice said.

The US Navy jet flew past four key artificial islands in the Spratly chain where China has built up fortifications: Subi Reef, Fiery Cross Reef, Johnson Reef and Mischief Reef.

On Subi Reef, the Poseidon's sensors picked up 86 vessels, including Chinese coast guard ships, moored in a giant lagoon, while on Fiery Cross Reef rows of hangers stood alongside a lengthy runway.

"It was surprising to see airports in the middle of the ocean," said Lt. Lauren Callen, who was leading the air combat crew aboard the Navy flight.

Each time the aircraft was challenged by Chinese military, the US Navy crew's response was the same.

"I am a sovereign immune United States naval aircraft conducting lawful military activities beyond the national airspace of any coastal state," the response said.

"In exercising these rights guaranteed by international law, I am operating with due regard for the rights and duties of all states."

CNN has reached out to the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs for comment.


Competing claims


The Chinese government staunchly maintains large areas of the South China Sea have been part of the country's territory "since ancient times."
Beijing's "nine-dash line" extends more than one thousand kilometers from its southernmost province, taking in more or less the entirety of the waters, through which the United Nations estimates one-third of global shipping passes.
The South China Sea is also believed to contain rich oil and natural gas reserves that have yet to be fully explored.
Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei all claim overlapping portions of the sea which spans 3.6 million square kilometer (1.4 million square miles), but the most far-reaching claims have been made by China.

Beijing's sovereignty claims are considered by most other countries as unsubstantiated, a view backed by an international tribunal in 2016.
Despite this however, little has changed in China's approach to the region in recent years.

To reinforce its claims of sovereignty, Beijing has been reclaiming land on and around reefs and shoals to construct artificial islands which are then militarized with airfields and radar equipment.

China has spent much of the past two years fortifying these islands, including placing missiles on the Spratly island chain during naval exercises in April.
This is despite a promise made by President Xi Jinping to then-US President Barack Obama in 2015 that the Chinese government would not be militarizing the artificial islands.
The US Navy's P8-A Poseidon plane which carried a CNN crew from Okinawa, Japan, over the South China Sea on August 10.
The US Navy's P8-A Poseidon plane which carried a CNN crew from Okinawa, Japan, over the South China Sea on August 10.

Rapid expansion


The last time CNN was given access to a US Navy mission over the South China Sea was in September 2015, when the aircraft was also warned off by Chinese military.
Since then, Beijing's island building in the contested waters has moved forward at a rapid pace.

Flying over Fiery Cross Reef on Friday, a five-story building was visible, as well as a large radar installation, which looked like neatly arranged golf balls on the Navy plane's infrared camera.

Though no Chinese missiles were seen on Friday's flight over the South China Sea, Navy officers said some of the structures seen could potentially be used to house them.

Cmdr. Chris Purcell, who leads Patrol Squadron Four which undertook Friday's mission, said the US has been doing these flights for five decades and they show US commitment to maintaining free passage in international waters.

"The reason we're here hasn't changed," Purcell said. "The reason (the Chinese) are here has changed."

Within hours of the trip, Chinese state tabloid Global Times posted a reaction to CNN's report on its Chinese-language website. The article called for all readers to "give a thumbs-up to Chinese servicemen" for their defense of China's territory.
China claims US sparking militarization


Beijing says its growing military presence in the South China Sea is necessary to protect its sovereignty, blaming Washington and its allies for tensions in the region.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/10/politics ... index.html

[SonicG]

I suppose there should be a "The Coming Coronavirus War on China" thread but fuggit, let's at least bump this one and see if the pot keeps simmering or gets turned up to a boil because even in the best-case scenarios, China is going to be a hot potato in the upcoming POTUS election (again, if it happens) and will certainly be scapegoated by Trump et. al. for any and all economic effects of the Corona Crisis...
But worst cases? Attempts by states to return to regular economic activity results in a larger second spike, sending the economy into a true tail spin, making the election impossible...also possibly making the military realize it will be either deployed against the American people in revolt or against the sneaky dirty lying Red menace...

I had not seen that the US seized a NorKor ship and sold it off for the Warmbiers! I found this precedent chilling and find it hard not to believe that this is one road the idiotic Trump WH is looking at. I also think there would be some level of support from Japan, SoKor and other East and SE Asian in beating up on China in some concrete way...

Is the United States About to Engage in Official State Piracy Against China? Strong Precedent Points to Worrying Trend

by A. B. Abrams for The Saker Blog

The Coronavirus crisis appears set to herald a new era of much poorer relations between China and the Western world, with Western countries having borne the brunt of the fallout from the pandemic and, particularly in the United States, increasingly blaming China at an official level for the effects.[1] Looking at the U.S. case in particular, at first responses to the virus were if anything optimistic – the fallout in China was seen as a ‘correction’ which would shift the balance of global economic power back into Western hands. Indeed, U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross stated on January 30th that the fallout from the virus in China “will help to accelerate the return of jobs to North America” with millions at the time placed under lockdown in Wuhan and elsewhere.[2] Western publications from the New York Times to the Guardian widely hailed the virus as potentially bringing an end to China’s decades of rapid economic growth – with a ‘rebalancing’ of the global economy towards Western power strongly implied.[3],[4] Against North Korea, the New York Times described the virus as potentially functioning as America’s “most effective ally” in achieving the outcome Washington had long sought – “choking the North’s economy.” [5]

...
In response to the Warmbers’ claim against the North Korean state, which amounted to a staggering $1.05 billion in punitive damages and around $46 million for the family’s suffering in a motion filed in U.S. District Court in Washington in October 2018, Pyongyang was asked to pay the couple $500 million.[23] This was despite no evidence for the couple’s claims of Korean culpability, but at a time when public opinion was strongly against North Korea and would have supported the motion. To seize the Warmbiers’ compensation, the United States Navy would later that year commandeer a North Korean cargo ship, the Wise Honest, and escort it to American territory where it was subsequently sold at auction. The couple was provided with a part of the ship’s value, and future seizures of Korean merchant shipping to meet the remainder of the American family’s claim remain possible under U.S. law.[24] The seizure of the ship, one of North Korea’s largest, represented a considerable loss to its fleet and complemented the effects of ongoing Western sanctions to undermine the country’s economy.

The significance of the Warmbier case is that it provides a strong precedent for the U.S. Military, should China inevitably refuse to pay the hundreds billions expected to be demanded in compensation, to engage in effective state level piracy against Chinese merchant shipping to provide funds for its increasingly struggling economy.[25] With trade war having failed to significantly slow Chinese economic growth and foreign trade, which had been its primary goal,[26] more drastic means may be adopted for the same end using the Coronavirus crisis as a pretext. Other similar recent cases of do exist, including unilateral seizure and sale of Iranian government owned properties by the Canadian government in 2019 to compensate alleged victims of terror of conflicts with Hezbollah and Hamas. This was despite neither of these being UN recognised terrorist organisations and Iran’s support for these non-state actors being entirely legal under international law.[27] The fact that these properties were on Canadian soil and governed under Canadian law however, rather than in international waters, makes this a considerably less provocative case than the Warmbier case one or than what is being proposed against China.

http://thesaker.is/is-the-united-states ... ing-trend/

[dada]

I also think there would be some level of support from Japan, SoKor and other East and SE Asian in beating up on China in some concrete way...

As long as it doesn't interfere with Chinese tourists. The lost Chinese tourism revenue this year as a result of the pandemic has been horrendous.

[SonicG]

I also think there would be some level of support from Japan, SoKor and other East and SE Asian in beating up on China in some concrete way...

As long as it doesn't interfere with Chinese tourists. The lost Chinese tourism revenue this year as a result of the pandemic has been horrendous.

It is certainly a problem, and I can also see a scenario where Vietnam is basically forced to do more trade with China as its only option. Vietnam is at zero new cases for a few days and will start opening non-essential businesses at the start of May but with Europe and the US looking at months before getting to that level, Vietnam will have to open up more to China I think...