Principals of Vertical Integration

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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby minime » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:30 am

In order to stay in touch with the complexity and immediacy of experience, especially if we are to empathise with, and create bonds with, others, we need to maintain the broadest experience of the world as it comes to us. We need to be going out into the experiential world along the horizontal axis, if you like. By contrast, in order to control or manipulate we need to be able to remove ourselves from certain aspects of experience, and in fact to map the world from the vertical axis – like the strategy map in a general's HQ – in order to plan our campaigns.
- Iain McGilchrist, The Master and His Emissary


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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby dada » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:16 am

"Certain intellectuals seem to flatter themselves with an illusory personal participation in the dominant sector of society through their possession of one or more cultural specializations, though those specializations have put them in the best position to see that this whole dominant culture is moth-eaten. But whatever one’s opinion of the coherence of this culture or of the interest of one or another of its fragments, the particular alienation it has imposed on these intellectuals is to make them imagine, from their lofty sociological position, that they are quite outside the everyday life of the common people, or to give them an exaggerated idea of their sociopolitical rank, as if their lives were not as fundamentally impoverished as everyone else’s.

Specialized activities certainly exist; they are even put to certain general uses which should be recognized in a demystified manner. Everyday life is not everything — although its overlapping with specialized activities is such that in a sense we are never outside of everyday life. But to use a somewhat simplistic spatial image, we still have to place everyday life at the center of everything. Every project begins from it and every accomplishment returns to it to acquire its real significance. Everyday life is the measure of all things: of the (non)fulfilment of human relations; of the use of lived time; of artistic experimentation; and of revolutionary politics.

It is not enough to recall that the old stereotypical image of the detached scientific observer is fallacious in any case. It must be stressed that disinterested observation is even less possible here than anywhere else. What makes for the difficulty of even recognizing a terrain of everyday life is not only the fact that it has already become the ostensible meeting ground of an empirical sociology and a conceptual elaboration, but also the fact that it presently happens to be the stake in any revolutionary renewal of culture and politics."

Being lazy, letting Guy Debord do my talking for me.

"if we regard everyday life as the frontier between the dominated and the undominated sectors of life, and thus as the terrain of chance and uncertainty, it would be necessary to replace the present ghetto with a constantly moving frontier; to work ceaselessly toward the organization of new chances."
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby minime » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:20 pm

He is doing your talking for you? I'm not sure that I understand what it is that you say he is saying?
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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby dada » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:23 pm

I think it's something like the "immediacy and complexity of experience" is an empty phrase, devoid of meaningful content. If we're going to empathize and create bonds with others, we'd first need to alter and transform the experiential world. "Going out along the horizontal axis, as it were," is a trek through a garbage dump. As it were.

And the map cannot be seen from the vertical axis, it's obscured by bs. Removing ourselves from certain aspects of experience is participation in our own alienation.

So I don't endorse Iian's strategy -or what I view as his foolish military metaphor- preferring Guy's frontier of chance and uncertainty metaphor, instead.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby minime » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:45 pm

dada » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:23 pm wrote:I think it's something like the "immediacy and complexity of experience" is an empty phrase, devoid of meaningful content. If we're going to empathize and create bonds with others, we'd first need to alter and transform the experiential world. "Going out along the horizontal axis, as it were," is a trek through a garbage dump. As it were.

And the map cannot be seen from the vertical axis, it's obscured by bs. Removing ourselves from certain aspects of experience is participation in our own alienation.

So I don't endorse Iian's strategy -or what I view as his foolish military metaphor- preferring Guy's frontier of chance and uncertainty metaphor, instead.


To be clear, I didn't quote McGilchrist because he was speaking for me (I don't let anyone speak for me--that would be wrong), but because he referenced the vertical and the horizontal. While he and I agree on the meaning of the horizontal, as far as I can tell, the vertical is another matter.

Part of the map can indeed be seen from the vertical axis, and is not at all obscured by bs. Indeed it is the most important part of the map--up to the moment of self-sacrifice--the part where X marks the spot, where the treasure lies.

Can you feel it?
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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby dada » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:20 pm

I can feel it coming in the air tonight. I remember. I remember don't worry.

I can't agree with the two of you on the meaning of the horizontal. In "maintaining the broadest experience of the world as it comes to us," it's the "as it comes to us" part I that I think best represents the unbridgeable gulf between our views on this point.

Your take on the vertical axis has a messianic flavor in my opinion. Not that this is necessarily a good or bad thing. Marxism, the singularity, the buddha's enlightenment under the bodhi tree all have that messianic quality. I find it alluring. Some of Walter Benjamin's writing has this quality.

My issue with it is as follows: Before the messianic moment, history is meaningless. The time before the messianic moment is justified and redeemed retroactively. So if there is to be a messianic moment, we are already redeemed. If not, then no, we aren't living in the best of all possible worlds. So at the moment (or never-occurrence) of self-sacrifice and the discovery of the treasure, it becomes irrelevant.

So in my opinion the as you say part of the map that can be seen is also therefore meaningless, at this point in time. And it only has meaning once it becomes irrelevant.
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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby minime » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:22 pm

My issue with it is as follows: Before the messianic moment, history is meaningless. The time before the messianic moment is justified and redeemed retroactively. So if there is to be a messianic moment, we are already redeemed. If not, then no, we aren't living in the best of all possible worlds. So at the moment (or never-occurrence) of self-sacrifice and the discovery of the treasure, it becomes irrelevant.

I can see why you think your thought processes are rapidly unraveling.
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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:45 pm

I believe a horizontal approach is essential for one to firmly grasp the principles of vertical integration.

How does one apply vertical integration to a circular economy?

A horizontal approach to vertical integration in a circular economy will always be deflected and considered tangential rather than axial, so, what's the solution?

Mushrooms?
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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby minime » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:51 pm

Iamwhomiam » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:45 pm wrote:I believe a horizontal approach is essential for one to firmly grasp the principles of vertical integration.

How does one apply vertical integration to a circular economy?

A horizontal approach to vertical integration in a circular economy will always be deflected and considered tangential rather than axial, so, what's the solution?

Mushrooms?


From above...

Principals because it's more about people than ideas. Vertical integration, but more about human models than business models. As much about trickle-up theory as trickle down theory.
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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:26 pm

Oh! You didn't misspell Principals! My bad. Haven't yet met one of those that could climb to the top of the gym's ropes. Having reached the pinnacle of their career with no further vertical move possible, they usually spread horizontally, some more rapidly than others. Most principals are entrenched, so they're easy to locate. Often, where they can be found will be clearly marked: "Office of the Principal" or "Principal's Office."

After all has been said, isn't it here, with primary and secondary principals, that all decisions regarding vertical integration or horizontal distribution are determined?
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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby minime » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:33 pm

Pythonesque...
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Re: Principals of Vertical Integration

Postby dada » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:20 am

minime » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:22 pm wrote:I can see why you think your thought processes are rapidly unraveling.


So can I. But do you see why you can see this?

I think this is the place for the light of logic and reason to shine. Applying logic to abstract, conceptual thinking keeps it honest. And rational thinking needs abstraction to free it from its infinite loop. Otherwise it stagnates. My opinion, of course.
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