Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

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Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby brekin » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:01 pm

Caught a history mysteries type tv show in a waiting room. Laid out pretty convincingly that Van Gogh probably was murdered intentionally or accidentally by a teenage gang leader who him and his band often harassed him in the town. He was last seen near the area where the perp lived and it could have been even been drug related. The story below just mentions boys and not their reputation and behavior towards Van Gogh (he was a bit of the local weirdo/eccentric and was often harassed by them). In this scenario the local police were either inept, complicit or just wanted it hushed up. The story below mentions Van Gogh verbally said he shot himself but the story I saw didn't mention that, he actually walked past the hotel lobby without saying anything to them, or tried and was unable to and they went up after him and found him in agony in his bed. Maybe he said it then, but I wonder if he was misinterpreted/misquoted?

Van Gogh was murdered, claims forensic expert: 'He did not shoot himself'
Forensics expert Dr. Di Maio supported a theory put forth in a 2011 biography

The true nature of Vincent van Gogh’s death continues to be a topic ripe for mystery – after a leading forensics expert has claimed that the artist was murdered.
The Sunflowers painter died an agonising 29 hours after taking a bullet to the abdomen in a wheat field near Paris in 1890. On his death bed he apparently revealed he had shot himself.
However, Dr. Vincent Di Maio, an expert on gunshot injuries, has said that he be believes the wound was “not self-inflicted”.
According to Vanity Fair, Di Maio, who was a key witness at the George Zimmerman trial, said that it was highly likely that Van Gogh “did not shoot himself”.

He made the claim in response to a request by Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith, whose biography of Van Gogh disputes the long-held suicide theory.
In Van Gogh: The Life, a 960-page book published in 2011, the Pulitzer Prize-winning authors claim that the artist had been shot, possibly accidentally, by a couple of boys and that he had decided to protect them by accepting the blame.
American academic John Rewald had talked of hearing local rumours about such a theory in the 1930s.

But Naifeh and Smith were attacked for publishing their theory and in 2013 Louis van Tilborgh and Teio Meedendorp published a critical review in the Burlington Magazine, which reiterated the suicide narrative.
Following this, Naifeh and Smith asked Di Maio to compare the two accounts and put forth his opinion.
Van Tilborgh and Meedendorp wrote that the son of the attendant physician at Van Gogh’s death bed, Paul Junior, said Van Gogh’s wound had a “brown and purple halo around [it].”
According to the authors, this meant “the gun must have been fired at very close range … and was caused by the bullet’s impact.”
But Di Maio said: “In fact, [the purple halo] is subcutaneous bleeding from vessels cut by the bullet and is usually seen in individuals who live awhile.
“Its presence or absence means nothing.”

Meanwhile, he said the brown ring is “an abrasion ring and seen around virtually all entrance wounds”.
Di Maio also said that if Van Gogh did shoot himself there would have been “soot, powder tattooing and searing of the skin around the entrance”.
He said: “These would have been grossly evident. None of this is described [in any of the forensic accounts]. This indicates the muzzle was more than a foot or two away (closer to two rather than one).”
In conclusion he said: “It is my opinion that, in all medical probability, the wound incurred by Van Gogh was not self-inflicted. In other words, he did not shoot himself.”

However, it may take more than Di Maio to sway academic opinion.
A curator at the Van Gogh Museum told Naifeh and Smith in an email. “I think it would be like Vincent to protect the boys and take the ‘accident’ as an unexpected way out of his burdened life.
“But I think the biggest problem you’ll find after publishing your theory is that the suicide is more or less printed in the brains of past and present generations and has become a sort of self-evident truth. Vincent’s suicide has become the grand finale of the story of the martyr for art, it’s his crown of thorns.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 68324.html
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby hanshan » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:41 pm

...


wow - just incredible

& how very sad

thanks for the article brekin


...


brekin » 22 Jun 2017 20:01 wrote:Caught a history mysteries type tv show in a waiting room. Laid out pretty convincingly that Van Gogh probably was murdered intentionally or accidentally by a teenage gang leader who him and his band often harassed him in the town. He was last seen near the area where the perp lived and it could have been even been drug related. The story below just mentions boys and not their reputation and behavior towards Van Gogh (he was a bit of the local weirdo/eccentric and was often harassed by them). In this scenario the local police were either inept, complicit or just wanted it hushed up. The story below mentions Van Gogh verbally said he shot himself but the story I saw didn't mention that, he actually walked past the hotel lobby without saying anything to them, or tried and was unable to and they went up after him and found him in agony in his bed. Maybe he said it then, but I wonder if he was misinterpreted/misquoted?

Van Gogh was murdered, claims forensic expert: 'He did not shoot himself'
Forensics expert Dr. Di Maio supported a theory put forth in a 2011 biography

The true nature of Vincent van Gogh’s death continues to be a topic ripe for mystery – after a leading forensics expert has claimed that the artist was murdered.
The Sunflowers painter died an agonising 29 hours after taking a bullet to the abdomen in a wheat field near Paris in 1890. On his death bed he apparently revealed he had shot himself.
However, Dr. Vincent Di Maio, an expert on gunshot injuries, has said that he be believes the wound was “not self-inflicted”.
According to Vanity Fair, Di Maio, who was a key witness at the George Zimmerman trial, said that it was highly likely that Van Gogh “did not shoot himself”.

He made the claim in response to a request by Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith, whose biography of Van Gogh disputes the long-held suicide theory.
In Van Gogh: The Life, a 960-page book published in 2011, the Pulitzer Prize-winning authors claim that the artist had been shot, possibly accidentally, by a couple of boys and that he had decided to protect them by accepting the blame.
American academic John Rewald had talked of hearing local rumours about such a theory in the 1930s.

But Naifeh and Smith were attacked for publishing their theory and in 2013 Louis van Tilborgh and Teio Meedendorp published a critical review in the Burlington Magazine, which reiterated the suicide narrative.
Following this, Naifeh and Smith asked Di Maio to compare the two accounts and put forth his opinion.
Van Tilborgh and Meedendorp wrote that the son of the attendant physician at Van Gogh’s death bed, Paul Junior, said Van Gogh’s wound had a “brown and purple halo around [it].”
According to the authors, this meant “the gun must have been fired at very close range … and was caused by the bullet’s impact.”
But Di Maio said: “In fact, [the purple halo] is subcutaneous bleeding from vessels cut by the bullet and is usually seen in individuals who live awhile.
“Its presence or absence means nothing.”

Meanwhile, he said the brown ring is “an abrasion ring and seen around virtually all entrance wounds”.
Di Maio also said that if Van Gogh did shoot himself there would have been “soot, powder tattooing and searing of the skin around the entrance”.
He said: “These would have been grossly evident. None of this is described [in any of the forensic accounts]. This indicates the muzzle was more than a foot or two away (closer to two rather than one).”
In conclusion he said: “It is my opinion that, in all medical probability, the wound incurred by Van Gogh was not self-inflicted. In other words, he did not shoot himself.”

However, it may take more than Di Maio to sway academic opinion.
A curator at the Van Gogh Museum told Naifeh and Smith in an email. “I think it would be like Vincent to protect the boys and take the ‘accident’ as an unexpected way out of his burdened life.
“But I think the biggest problem you’ll find after publishing your theory is that the suicide is more or less printed in the brains of past and present generations and has become a sort of self-evident truth. Vincent’s suicide has become the grand finale of the story of the martyr for art, it’s his crown of thorns.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 68324.html



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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:46 pm

Interesting and thank you Brekin.

Makes much sense to me; Van Gogh is the arch type of the struggling and unappreciated visionary artist.

After reading the article I read other bio info on the internet and never had realized that Van Gogh had education and experience as an evangelical missionary. He lost that job because he gave his clergy lodging provided with his job to the poor and lived on a straw bed in a hut. He went to live with his parents then and, while he had done art since a child, he was then until he died his only profession was artist.

Once 40 plus years ago, my parents came to the SF Bay Area to visit me while at university and I had bought tickets to the traveling Van Gogh exhibit at the De Young. It may have been the first time my Dad was in an art museum. On a later visit I took them to the again by ticket traveling King Tut exhibit also at the De Young.
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby Cordelia » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:13 pm

hanshan » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:41 pm wrote:...


wow - just incredible

& how very sad

thanks for the article brekin


...


What I thought also.

That he was so tormented and by himself when he died is heartbreaking, but that he could also have been tormented, and even killed by others........

Image



“The more I think it over, the more I feel that there is nothing more truly artistic than to love people.


~ Vincent Van Gogh ~

The Vanity Fair article linked in Independent article: http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2014/ ... er-mystery
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:19 pm

Thank you for this, brekin. I was unaware that his death might have been anything other than suicide. I've seen some great art over the years, but there's something truly remarkable about Van Gogh. Thirteen years ago, I visited the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam. It was really a wonderful experience; unlike a lot of museums, security wasn't breathing down my neck, I could really get close to the paintings and take my time gazing in awe at minute brush strokes, as well as stepping back to drinking in the totality of the work. I left feeling completely transported to another dimension.
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby Cordelia » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:55 pm

^^^^ I envy you that visit!

The room in Arles where Van Gogh lived and died....

Image


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R74sr4XE_9o

Years ago I read a couple of biographies and some of the correspondence between Van Gogh and his brother Theo. Thought then that even his paintings couldn’t equal the depth and character of the man himself. I remember reading that he shot himself in the abdomen, which seems a ‘strange’ place to shoot oneself...
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby Cordelia » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:31 pm

My taste in music and set of friends didn’t allow for an appreciation of Don McLean when he was popular. Or for his lovely tribute to Vincent Van Gogh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLvzF981Fiw

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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:27 pm

Cordelia » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:55 pm wrote:^^^^ I envy you that visit!


If you love Van Gogh, it is definitely a bucket list item!

https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/explore-the-collection
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby Cordelia » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:12 pm

It seems more obvious, and the historical record of suicide more outlandish, that he was shot, accidentally or not, by someone else; maybe 16 year old René Secrétan, with or w/o his friends. From the V.F. article (a worthwhile read):

Van Gogh himself wrote not a word about his final days. The film got it wrong: he left no suicide note—odd for a man who churned out letters so profligately. A piece of writing allegedly found in his clothes after he died turned out to be an early draft of his final letter to his brother Theo, which he posted the day of the shooting, July 27, 1890. That letter was upbeat—even ebullient—about the future. He had placed a large order for more paints only a few days before a bullet put a hole in his abdomen. Because the missile missed his vital organs, it took 29 agonizing hours to kill him.

.....................

And, anyway, what kind of a person, no matter how unbalanced, tries to kill himself with a shot to the midsection? And then, rather than finish himself off with a second shot, staggers a mile back to his room in agonizing pain from a bullet in his belly?”

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2014/ ... er-mystery


fwiw....his reputed politics aside, remembered that Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh was murdered in 2004 and that Vincent Van Gogh was his Great-grand uncle (and Vincent V.G.’s beloved brother Theo’s namesake). Tragedies sometimes repeat themselves in families.......

Dutch Filmmaker, an Islam Critic, Is Killed

By MARLISE SIMONS NOV. 3, 2004

PARIS, Nov. 2 - Theo van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker and writer who had recently made a television film critical of Islam, was shot and stabbed to death on an Amsterdam street on Tuesday.

The killing shocked the Netherlands, already apprehensive over large-scale Muslim immigration, which has provoked an angry public debate. Mr. van Gogh's film added to that debate after it was broadcast in September.

Shortly after the killing, the police arrested a 26-year-old man of dual Dutch and Moroccan nationality, whom they refused to identify. It was not immediately clear if he had any connections to militant groups, but the police said he was not known to any Dutch law enforcement agency and that he had not been under surveillance.

Before fleeing, the man left a note on the body of the victim, said Eric Vermeulen, a spokesman for the Amsterdam police. The police declined to describe the contents of the message. The Dutch news media reported that it contained passages from the Koran.

Continued.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/03/world ... ml?mcubz=0
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby DrEvil » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:02 pm

stillrobertpaulsen » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:27 am wrote:
Cordelia » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:55 pm wrote:^^^^ I envy you that visit!


If you love Van Gogh, it is definitely a bucket list item!

https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/explore-the-collection


+1 for that. It's a great museum, especially if you have some "coffee" before going. :wink:

The Hermitage in St. Petersburg also has a pretty impressive collection. They have an entire room just with Van Gogh paintings.
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:22 am

It's just one of the greatest museums, ever!

I always thought shooting himself from the front was kind of strange, but murder didn't occur to me.

(Editor's compulsive note: there is no unintentional murder, that would be manslaughter.)
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby Cordelia » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:51 am

^^^Yes; thanks for that distinction.

For those of us who probably won’t get to Amsterdam or St. Petersburg, here’s a great site to search the locations of his work, listed by country/city, as a chart and w/a link to view each painting listed.

http://www.vggallery.com/map/main.htm

(The paintings I’ve seen were at The National Gallery and The Phillips Collection.)

http://www.vggallery.com/map/washingtondc.htm
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby PufPuf93 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:33 pm

There are traveling Van Gogh exhibits (like I mentioned above seeing in San Francisco 40 years or more ago). The exhibit I attended was a more comprehensive world tour of well-known Van Gogh master pieces.

Last updated: 5 May 2017

This section will provide details about the many exhibits taking place around the world that include works by Vincent van Gogh. If you know of any other Van Gogh exhibits that aren't listed below, then I would very much appreciate an e-mail at info@vggallery.com so that I can include the information here. For details about each exhibition, please contact the host museum.


Current and Upcoming Exhibitions

Year
Start Date
End Date
Venue
City
Country
Exhibit Name


2017
3 February 2017
18 June 2017
Staatsgalerie Stuttgart
Stuttgart
Germany
Departure Flora: Masterpieces from the Arthur and Hedy Hahnloser-Bühler Collection

2017
5 February 2017
7 May 2017
Fondation Beyeler
Basel
Switzerland
Beyeler Collection: The Original

2017
16 February 2017
21 May 2017
Seattle Art Museum
Seattle
United States
Seeing Nature: Landscape Masterworks from the Paul G. Allen Family Collection

2017
3 March 2017
10 July 2017
Musée Jacquemart-André
Paris (2)
France
From Zurbarán to Rothko: Alicia Koplowitz Collection

2017
4 March 2017
17 September 2017
Fondation Vincent van Gogh Arles
Arles
France
Calm and Exaltation. Van Gogh in the Bührle Collection

2017
13 March 2017
10 June 2017
Musée d'Orsay
Paris (1)
France
Mystical Landscapes: Masterpieces from Monet, Van Gogh and More

2017
19 March 2017
31 December 2017
Ny Carlsberg Glyptotek
Copenhagen
Denmark
French Painting

2017
5 April 2017
21 August 2017
Musée de l'Orangerie
Paris (3)
France
Tokyo-Paris Masterpieces from Bridgestone Museum of Art, Collection Ishibashi Foundation

2017
7 April 2017
29 October 2017
Fondation de l’Hermitage
Lausanne
Switzerland
Masterpieces from the Bührle Collection: Manet, Cézanne, Monet, Van Gogh

2017
8 April 2017
24 July 2017
National Palace Museum
Taipei
Taiwan
The Aesthetic Worlds of the 19th Century

2017
28 April 2017
9 July 2017
National Gallery of Victoria
Melbourne
Australia
Van Gogh and the Seasons

2017
14 May 2017
13 August 2017
Kimbell Art Museum
Fort Worth
United States
A Modern Vision: European Masterworks from the Phillips Collection

2017-18
11 August 2017
11 March 2018
Kunstmuseum Bern
Bern
Switzerland
Van Gogh to Cézanne, Bonnard to Matisse: The Hahnloser Collection
2018
8 June 2018
7 October 2018
National Gallery of Victoria
Melbourne
Australia
Masterworks from MoMA

http://www.vggallery.com/misc/exhibitions/main.htm
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby Cordelia » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:49 pm

On the other hand, Van Gogh was a man w/a history of harming himself in a dramatic & unusual way..........

Image

Still....... And what about the gun? (Why would he have even had one in his possession?)

There are also couple of other facts that doesn’t match. None of the earliest accounts of the shooting—those written in the days immediately after the event—mentioned suicide. They said only that Van Gogh had “wounded himself.” No one knew where he would have gotten a gun; no one ever found that gun, or any of the other items he had taken with him (canvas, easel, paints, etc.). His deathbed doctors, an obstetrician and a homeopathist, could make no sense of his wounds.

http://www.dailyartdaily.com/mystery-vi ... ogh-death/
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Re: Van Gogh possibly/most likely murdered

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:45 am

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