Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sickle?

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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby minime » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:56 pm

Sounder » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:52 pm wrote:Thanks Wombat and yikes, what a site.

I'm going away for awhile, I don't do well with the internet.


From the two comes the three.
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby Cordelia » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:38 pm

Image

Even so, not something I'd wrap myself in.
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby DrEvil » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:58 pm

My two cents: waving flags is stupid. "Look, this is my label and everyone has to see it!".

As to waving Nazi flags vs. Commie flags, historically they are both bad, with the Nazis winning on points, but the underlying ideology is not even close to the same thing. The short and stupid version:

Communism: everyone should be equal.
Nazism: everyone who is not us should be exterminated.

The execution of those ideologies on both sides was catastrophically bad, and anyone subscribing to either ideology today is a moron. Extremes don't work, but all told, I have way more sympathy for the intent behind communism.

Just a shame that strict adherence to any ideology rots the brain (which reminds me: what happened to AD? Was he perma-banned or did he finally give up on us?).
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby Elvis » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:47 pm

Rigor, people, rigor!

One minute on Google is often all it takes. And take a deep breath.


Wombaticus Rex wrote:
Sounder » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:04 pm wrote:So I googled Antifa flag, they are all about blood and soil.

Sorry about the source, still I assume that is the Antifa flag bearing a striking resemblance to the Nazi flag.

https://www.americasfreedomfighters.com ... -anything/


That's not only badly photoshopped, it's not the actual Antifa flag. None of them look like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_mo ... n_logo.svg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fron ... cle_BW.svg
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:57 pm

Rigor, people, rigor!

One minute on Google is often all it takes. And take a deep breath.




For shits and giggles I tried DuckDuckGo with the same search terms when looking for icons and results were different enough to raise an eyebrow. Reverse image search is handy.
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby The Consul » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:00 pm

Flags are for gravestones, high school poles, stiff drinks, dead soldiers.. Got my dad's triangle in a box right up on the book case behind me. But it's him to me not old glory. Best use of flag was when Abbie Hoffman made a shirt out of one. They were all ready to throw his ass in jail till he showed judge a picture of Roy Rodgers and Dale Evans wearing same. Like Jerry sang, "Wave that flag, wave it wide and high!"

Seattle has only statue of Lenin in America in Fremont. It's a doozy. So maybe they get a pass. Maybe they'll get pissed if someone tries to tear it down. It's actually pretty cool. The Dude will tell you so. I don't think hammer & sicklers are an issue, especially when you have to search for them and especially images from Twitter, the least reliable fact based form of information created in the history of mankind, worse even than television. I have seen more than a few people with the battle flag who, well, really just look like total fucking assholes hell bent on broadcasting their belly hate as far as they can before they get pulled over and spew Ezra on some unlucky trooper. And antifa is far less of an issue to me than the neoshits; I mean, the organizer of the Charlottesville nazi march said Heyer was a fat communist pig who got what she deserved. Almost makes you want to pick up a hammer sickle flag listening to that mofo crunchy dufus. What kinda psyop is that? Far as I'm concerned all the little nazi brats can eat shit and die. The red flag wavers you know, they'll get over it. The supreme personalities of visceral racial hatred? Not so much.
And fuck Google, now a smiling partner with that bastion of the working class, Walmart.
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby Elvis » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:30 pm

Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sickle?

Yes. Yes for the usual reasons.

One comparison: hammer & sickle is in the logo of at least a dozen legitimate political parties around the world; not so with the swastika.
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:40 pm

Yeah, I'm a fuk flags guy myself, though I have a rather unique 35 or 36 star US flag given the survivors of a relative who died in 1865 in battle. I have no affinity to it otherwise. I may give it to a younger cousin who's into genealogy and has a male heir or leave it to my daughter for quick cash. But all flags can find their roots in bloody battles

But really, karma, the thread topic, if it had been as long as you wanted it to be, would be comparing false equivalencies. The first two came from successful revolutions, but the third, from a failed one.

So, you're asking whether it's better to kill six million Jews, or six million peasants or a few million people kidnapped and enslaved with no chance of freedom working their lives away under brutal conditions, and that's a bit disturbing to me. And not really worthy to discuss, imho. Puts one in a "So when did you stop beating your wife?" sort of position.

I'd like to rid our language of "alt" and emphasize 'extreme' and 'radical' instead. 'Neo' too, good riddance to. No such thing as a new Nazi. A Nazi is a Nazi, no prefix necessary.
'Nazi nouveau' I'd be willing to accept, but I doubt the Nazis would like it.
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby Elvis » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:55 pm

"alt" is so '90s.
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby stefano » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:12 am

Yes.
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby minime » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:41 am

From the three come the ten thousand things.
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby minime » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:22 am

Image
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby minime » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:24 am

Why are you the monkey?
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby Karmamatterz » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:18 am

Communism: everyone should be equal.
Nazism: everyone who is not us should be exterminated.

The execution of those ideologies on both sides was catastrophically bad, and anyone subscribing to either ideology today is a moron. Extremes don't work, but all told, I have way more sympathy for the intent behind communism.


Communism: everyone should be equal, and if you don't believe that then you will be jailed, tortured, starved or shot.
Nazism: everyone who is not us should be exterminated.

Agreed on the subscribing to either ideology. History has proven they are both appalling and evil.

Seattle has only statue of Lenin in America in Fremont. It's a doozy. So maybe they get a pass. Maybe they'll get pissed if someone tries to tear it down. It's actually pretty cool.


@theconsul

So Lenin gets a pass on butchering, enslaving and torture?

Far as I'm concerned all the little nazi brats can eat shit and die.

Indeed!

Now I got to go and kill me some tequila worms that are having at my pines.

:partyhat

One comparison: hammer & sickle is in the logo of at least a dozen legitimate political parties around the world; not so with the swastika.


@Elvis, what constitutes legitimate?
Does a rewrite of history mean we ignore the barbarism of communism and the resulting millions of deaths?

The Soviets did a great job at marketing their ideology into the mainstream on a global level. Because one of it's goals was to "equalize" and remove class barriers do the ends justify the means? The hammer and sickle represent an evil that is no less than the swastika. The Nazis got more style points on their butchering of millions. The Soviets perhaps weren't as offensive (and not nearly as efficient) because their goal seemed more egalitarian. What we ended up with is a general perception that communism isn't as bad. The ethnic cleansing by Stalin and co. was horrific. How can honestly as decent human beings not recognize that the systematic starving of millions was genocide? The Holodomor was real. http://www.faminegenocide.com/resources/hessay.htm http://www.holodomorct.org/ Perhaps because the full disclosure didn't happen until the 90's the general public doesn't have a full understanding of the terrible atrocities committed by the Soviets?

Some still argue the ethnic cleansing and starvation committed by the Soviets wasn't real....just like there are those that don't believe in the Nazi genocide of the Jewish people. The New York Times had a famous reporter that help spread the lies and I believe he even won a pulitzer. To this day the NYT has not expunged Walter Duranty from their wall of "fame." Counterpunch reads like some neo-Nazi trope trying to discredit history. https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/03 ... cist-lies/

I'm having a hard time getting my head around how communism gets a pass by some folks. How can a person be angry and disgusted by the demonstration of Nazis and the KKK but carry the banner of what represents another grotesque ideology?

Admittedly, when in high school I wrote a paper on communism and lacking even a moderate sense of history came away with the pop culture belief that communism wasn't such a bad thing. It's taken myself years of reading and overcoming indifference (at times) to realize most forms of government are pretty fu*cked up and inhuman. I think a lot of us would agree on that. I'm being honest that it is easy to be lied to and believe whatever narrative the writes of history books want us to believe. It's harder work to overcome years of being programmed by the media, crappy education and such. It still is challenging understanding how one can protest the evils of one ideology and it's evil outcome but excuse or still glorify another. It's almost as if sometimes we're faced with something shitty and while repulsed by it we look for an alternative and don't realize it's just another turd with a different smell.

In my OP I didn't clarify enough that it's not so much about flags themselves, it's about what those icons represent. In general I'm really tired of the flag waving and any nationalistic hoo ha. It especially gets old around Memorial Day and July 4.

Thanks all for your comments and sharing.
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Re: Is Waving a Swastika Flag Worse than the Hammer and Sick

Postby minime » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:30 am

And why are you the shellmaster?


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