Closer to Mars

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby DrEvil » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:09 pm

Belligerent Savant » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:29 pm wrote:.

Hopefully that will change in the near future.


Indeed, that's the hope shared by many.

Curious factoid, though, isn't it? No humans traversed beyond the Van Allen belts since the last reported Moon landings in the early 70s.

Surely the next 10-20 yrs will change all that. Otherwise the scrutiny Re: historical accounts of space travel will only increase.


Not really that curious. No one went beyond Earth orbit because it was all government funded and they didn't think the cost was worth the return.

You can only send people to the Moon on short trips to collect rocks so many times before the exercise becomes redundant. The alternative then would have been to expand, maybe a Moon base, maybe astronauts to Mars, but that would have been really expensive, and a permanent presence would have locked in costs for decades, so they nuked the whole program instead.

Now congress is more interested in funding their pals in old space with endless cost plus contracts and jobs in their home states than actually doing cool stuff in space.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 3971
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:42 pm

.

Yes, that's one potential explanation.

I for one don't buy the 'it's too expensive' refrain. There are a number of massive cost drains the govt has been all too eager to 'invest' in over the years (if we are to subscribe to front-facing storylines without any scrutiny, that is). Another Moon landing wouldn't have broken any figurative banks.

But we shall see, won't we? 2040, or earlier, right? Mars is the big target now. A new era is upon us. No need to rely on NASA with Musk on the case.

No excuse now. Prove the naysayers wrong.
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5214
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby BenDhyan » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:29 am

DrEvil » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:09 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:29 pm wrote:.

Hopefully that will change in the near future.


Indeed, that's the hope shared by many.

Curious factoid, though, isn't it? No humans traversed beyond the Van Allen belts since the last reported Moon landings in the early 70s.

Surely the next 10-20 yrs will change all that. Otherwise the scrutiny Re: historical accounts of space travel will only increase.


Not really that curious. No one went beyond Earth orbit because it was all government funded and they didn't think the cost was worth the return.

You can only send people to the Moon on short trips to collect rocks so many times before the exercise becomes redundant. The alternative then would have been to expand, maybe a Moon base, maybe astronauts to Mars, but that would have been really expensive, and a permanent presence would have locked in costs for decades, so they nuked the whole program instead.

Now congress is more interested in funding their pals in old space with endless cost plus contracts and jobs in their home states than actually doing cool stuff in space.

Keep up...
NASA unveils plan for Artemis 'base camp' on the moon beyond 2024
By Meghan Bartels
April 03, 2020

NASA is forging ahead with its Artemis program to land humans on the moon by 2024, but the agency has also just offered its first plan for what a U.S. lunar presence may look like after that milestone.

The new plan comes from a 13-page report submitted on April 2 to the National Space Council, an advisory group to President Donald Trump chaired by Vice President Mike Pence. Much of the report, titled "NASA’s Plan for Sustained Lunar Exploration and Development," summarizes the vision NASA has laid out for justifying and accomplishing the 2024 moon landing. But the report also looks farther out to focus on what a long-term presence on the moon and in lunar orbit would permit the U.S. to accomplish.

https://www.space.com/nasa-plans-artemis-moon-base-beyond-2024.html



https://www.nasa.gov/specials/artemis/
Ben D
User avatar
BenDhyan
 
Posts: 867
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:46 pm

.

2024! Even better - that's just around the corner.

Will be keeping an eye out for the day this venture comes to fruition.

If it's on NASA.GOV it must surely be true.
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5214
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby DrEvil » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:03 pm

BenDhyan » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:29 am wrote:
DrEvil » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:09 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:29 pm wrote:.

Hopefully that will change in the near future.


Indeed, that's the hope shared by many.

Curious factoid, though, isn't it? No humans traversed beyond the Van Allen belts since the last reported Moon landings in the early 70s.

Surely the next 10-20 yrs will change all that. Otherwise the scrutiny Re: historical accounts of space travel will only increase.


Not really that curious. No one went beyond Earth orbit because it was all government funded and they didn't think the cost was worth the return.

You can only send people to the Moon on short trips to collect rocks so many times before the exercise becomes redundant. The alternative then would have been to expand, maybe a Moon base, maybe astronauts to Mars, but that would have been really expensive, and a permanent presence would have locked in costs for decades, so they nuked the whole program instead.

Now congress is more interested in funding their pals in old space with endless cost plus contracts and jobs in their home states than actually doing cool stuff in space.

Keep up...
NASA unveils plan for Artemis 'base camp' on the moon beyond 2024
By Meghan Bartels
April 03, 2020

NASA is forging ahead with its Artemis program to land humans on the moon by 2024, but the agency has also just offered its first plan for what a U.S. lunar presence may look like after that milestone.

The new plan comes from a 13-page report submitted on April 2 to the National Space Council, an advisory group to President Donald Trump chaired by Vice President Mike Pence. Much of the report, titled "NASA’s Plan for Sustained Lunar Exploration and Development," summarizes the vision NASA has laid out for justifying and accomplishing the 2024 moon landing. But the report also looks farther out to focus on what a long-term presence on the moon and in lunar orbit would permit the U.S. to accomplish.

https://www.space.com/nasa-plans-artemis-moon-base-beyond-2024.html



https://www.nasa.gov/specials/artemis/


Fair enough, but this is NASA we're talking about. The rocket they want to use isn't even finished yet after ten years and 20 billion dollars (plus another 20 billion for the crew vehicle), and Boeing hasn't exactly had a stellar track record on engineering lately. One of the reasons the Artemis program exists at all is to justify the ongoing bonfire of cash that is the SLS program. They already spent forty billion on the rocket and crew vehicle so they have to use them for something.

The only way the whole thing doesn't get cancelled just like the previous program to go to the Moon and Mars (Constellation. Boots on the Moon by 2020!) is if they kill off the SLS after a couple of token flights and use commercial rockets. They've already started looking at SpaceX and Blue Origin.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 3971
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby BenDhyan » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:58 am

^ I mostly agree. One of the reasons put by moon colony people is to develop and first test the technologies required for a Mar's colony there before proceeding to a Mars base, however the Mars Direct people think its a waste of time and money.
Ben D
User avatar
BenDhyan
 
Posts: 867
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:12 pm

They recently tested the SLS second stage, I believe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_heavy-lift_launch_vehicle
User avatar
Iamwhomiam
 
Posts: 6572
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:47 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby DrEvil » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:59 pm

^^It's slowly getting there, but the main problem is how insanely expensive it is. Each launch will cost 2 billion or more and no part of the rocket is reusable.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 3971
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby DrEvil » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:18 pm

BenDhyan » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:58 am wrote:^ I mostly agree. One of the reasons put by moon colony people is to develop and first test the technologies required for a Mar's colony there before proceeding to a Mars base, however the Mars Direct people think its a waste of time and money.


I kinda agree with both views. The Moon is excellent for testing things, and it's within rescue distance if something goes horribly wrong, but Mars is an entirely different environment, so there's limits to what we can learn on the Moon. I want people to go to Mars, but it would be nice to know that all the things they depend on checks out before they get there. Watching a bunch of astronauts slowly die because we overlooked some small detail and they're too far away to help would be really depressing.

There is the risk that if we go to the Moon first we get bogged down there, with the Moon base serving as the new ISS, soaking up resources and budgets, so if someone (read: SpaceX) wants to take the chance and go directly to Mars I say let them. Worst case scenario we learn something useful in a morbid way.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 3971
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby BenDhyan » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:52 pm

^ Good points DrEvil. On the question of the cost per SLS launch, I think the $2 billion claim involves some sort of amortization of the development costs, the more launches, the less it costs per launch.
Ben D
User avatar
BenDhyan
 
Posts: 867
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby BenDhyan » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:59 pm

We shall see, NASA to Moon by 2024, Space X Mars Direct.by 2026.

Elon Musk is ‘highly confident’ SpaceX will land humans on Mars by 2026

Published Tue, Dec 1 2020

SpaceX CEO Elon Musk remains “highly confident” that his company will land humans on Mars by 2026, saying on Tuesday that it’s an achievable goal “about six years from now.”

“If we get lucky, maybe four years,” Musk said, speaking on an award show webcast from Berlin, Germany. “We want to send an uncrewed vehicle there in two years.”

The ambitious 2026 goal matches with what Musk outlined at the International Astronautical Congress in September 2016, when he said that “if things go super well,” landing people on Mars “might be kind of in the 10-year timeframe.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/elon-musk-highly-confident-spacex-will-land-humans-on-mars-by-2026.html

Ben D
User avatar
BenDhyan
 
Posts: 867
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby DrEvil » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:44 pm

BenDhyan » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:52 am wrote:^ Good points DrEvil. On the question of the cost per SLS launch, I think the $2 billion claim involves some sort of amortization of the development costs, the more launches, the less it costs per launch.


That may be true, but it's still never going to be cheap, and that's really the important part as far as I'm concerned. If access to space becomes cheap enough it unlocks so many possibilities. Ideally, seeing someone go to orbit should be about as exciting and routine as seeing someone get on a plane.

My hope is it will happen sooner rather than later, and that will require SpaceX and/or Blue Origin to be successful. It's almost absurd how fast seeing a Falcon 9 land went from holy cow! to boring routine, so if/when Starship is operational we might see a similar effect for people and stuff going to orbit.

As for his 2026 prediction, assuming nothing goes catastrophically wrong in Boca Chica it's not too unrealistic by his standards.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 3971
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby BenDhyan » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:53 pm

In the mean time China is making great strides in these early days of the unfolding space age.

Take a Look at What China’s Chang’e-5 Probe Is Seeing (and Doing) on the Moon

Posted on December 2, 2020 by Alan Boyle

China’s Chang’e-5 robotic moon lander is due to spend only two days collecting samples of lunar rock and soil before it sends its shipment on its way back to Earth, but it’s making the most of the time.

Just hours after landing on December 1st, the probe started using its robotic scoop and drill to dig up material at Mons Rümker, a lava dome in a region called Oceanus Procellarum, or the Ocean of Storms.

It’s also been sending back pictures and video, including this stunning view of the final minutes before touchdown. Watch how the camera tips straight down to focus on the target spot for the lander:




Posted on December 2, 2020 by Alan Boyle
Take a Look at What China’s Chang’e-5 Probe Is Seeing (and Doing) on the Moon

China’s Chang’e-5 robotic moon lander is due to spend only two days collecting samples of lunar rock and soil before it sends its shipment on its way back to Earth, but it’s making the most of the time.

Just hours after landing on December 1st, the probe started using its robotic scoop and drill to dig up material at Mons Rümker, a lava dome in a region called Oceanus Procellarum, or the Ocean of Storms.

It’s also been sending back pictures and video, including this stunning view of the final minutes before touchdown. Watch how the camera tips straight down to focus on the target spot for the lander:

The lander is gathering scientific data about its surroundings, which are thought to have been formed through volcanic processes relatively late in the Moon’s geological history, around 1.2 billion years ago.

Chang’e-5’s scientific suite includes ground-penetrating radar as well as a spectrometer. But its main job is to get what are expected to be the youngest samples of lunar regolith ever collected back safely to Earth. The mission schedule calls for up to 2 kilograms of material to be stashed inside a rocket-powered ascent vehicle that’s sitting on top of the lander.

Even as the Chang’e-5 lander is documenting its surroundings, Twitter users are passing along imagery documenting how the lander is doing its job. Here’s a selection, starting with a panorama of the landing site.



https://www.universetoday.com/149073/take-a-look-at-what-chinas-change-5-probe-is-seeing-and-doing-on-the-moon/

Ben D
User avatar
BenDhyan
 
Posts: 867
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby DrEvil » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:04 pm

I love the landing video, it looks like a fractal.

Also, SpaceX is set for their 15 km Starship test this weekend, possibly tomorrow. It will either be an awesome launch and landing or an awesome explosion. Win-win.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/12 ... as-friday/
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 3971
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Closer to Mars

Postby BenDhyan » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:16 pm

Yes, I am looking forward to the Starship test. Btw, do you remember the old McDonnell Douglas Delta Clipper single stage to orbit vertical take off and landing spaceship? Though it crashed on its last flight which gave NASA the excuse to close it down, I am sure Space X learnt a lot from it.

.
Ben D
User avatar
BenDhyan
 
Posts: 867
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests