Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:42 am

liminalOyster » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:58 am wrote:Taking a break for awhile but a thought: could this forum be configured to allow OP's to moderate their own threads?


See, this is what happens. All the interesting people go away.

I don't know if that option is available with phpBB. I like it.

I saw it tried out once many years ago on what was then a pretty authoritarian board that has since turned laughably authoritarian. (DU) I didn't even get to see the outcome. They suspended it after one day. From what I gathered the admins did not like it because it was working too damn well. Idiots whose specialty was to troll everything not from a strict pro-neoliberal Democrat, standard U.S. worldview (with "skeptical" slant) were complaining in force that they couldn't trash others' threads any more. It also became clear that the left was in substantial majority on a board intended as a centrist control device. (That would not be the case on that board any more. Where it once had thousands of active members it's down to a couple of hundred true-blue Obama-Clinton #Russiagate faithful at most, with a dozen long-time lefties still unbanned or sticking it out.)

Here I think something more radical is needed in addition, given the low number of writers contributing, and the willingness of the R.I. Dream Team to constantly expand their claims to board space for their obsessive monocultures. No one should be allowed to start more than three threads a month. Maybe it should be lower. 12 threads a year. Seriously.

Threads for thousands of subjects already exist and should be used. Proliferation mainly serves to lose archival memory. Everyone should have a right to avoid spins they don't like (e.g., I prefer not to post and bump up a thread headlined Assange Is a Disgusting Buffoon, or whatever that one is called). So they can still start their own, but then they have to cultivate.

Your saying you've had enough (as many have) could mean the end is nigh. Even if the Dream Team stops doing their thing, there may not be enough people left here to revive it.

.
Last edited by JackRiddler on Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:44 am

I also saw a gang ruin two boards ......the Bell people did a remarkable job by gang rule


there is plenty of room here for you to post anything you want but you chose to just complain...no one is stopping you from anything ...you have the power don't insinuate that someone has power over you

guess what liminalOyster likes me...go ahead ask him

or you could read this instead



oh and you should not put words in liminalOyster reply

liminalOyster » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:58 am wrote:
Taking a break for awhile but a thought: could this forum be configured to allow OP's to moderate their own threads?



Your saying you've had enough
where did he say that? but you always put words in other members replies to suit your point of view...twisted to suit you


Proliferation mainly serves to lose archival memory

:roll:

that is a ridiculous statement


hey maybe when you get your board up and running and finance it you can make the rules to suit your needs and you can have everyone agree with you ...that will be lovely
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby liminalOyster » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:10 pm

seemslikeadream » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:14 am wrote:There is a built in feature that has been in place since day one and it was put there for a very good reason .....if one does not like what someone is posting put them on ignore .....it is a simple solution that anyone can utilize. It is a brilliant option. Every member here is equal no matter what some members think. A campaign to completely silence a member instead of just ignoring them was never has never happened here and should never happen here. Censorship by Membership was not an entended option. The beauty of R.I. was that Jeff took steps to insure there would be no censorship here. The ignore feature is there membership here was NEVER based on popularity ...no member here has the right to demand someone be banned ...it was never the intent of our founding father.....he gave us an ignore option Jeff never intended gang rule.....his basic rules have served R.I. well for 14 years


SLAD, my question was motivated by a specific desire to clean up the Paranoid/Jackboot thread which I created so that I could delete a flurry of interpersonal back and forths that are more like a chat and have no ongoing relevance to the discussion.

I can't tell if you are implying me in your reply or jumping scale to something more universal but I am def not interested in censorship of anyone and I don't think I've ever advocated banning anyone in one of my posts.

I do use the ignore function for people who make very long posts. Makes it easier to manage but I still read them usually. I find it does not work fo the intended purpose you mention because it just hides half of a given flame war.

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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:11 pm

oh I was not replying to you sorry for the confusion...it was an on going discussion with Mac and Jack

Happy holidays to you too


I don't mean to put you in the middle of this but Jack put words in your mouth


Jack seems to think you do not like me and are leaving because of me could you clear that up please I'd appreciate it? Thanks in advance ...or if you have already left he can just read that really nice OP of yours about me ...you really are an angel...I sincerely meant that..you've always been very kind and understanding with me when we have had mis communications


He likes to project that everyone hates me as much as he does....that falsely builds his brand and of course that has spilled over to confuse and make it difficult for members here to know the truth and causes difficulties between members where there should not be...he tends to make stuff up
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:04 pm

.

Untrue. I do not hate you and never have. It's an absurd thought: I don't know you. I have never even seen a "you" embodied. You do not exist for me, you do not have a name or a presence, except as posts and a text persona. That can be objectionable or infuriating, but it cannot serve as an object for my emotional hatred. So stop projecting. (Spoiler: I've been telling you that for years already.)

What is true is that your hairtrigger reactions, misinterpretations of others' posts, and bizarroland projections thereon make it very hard to deal with you.

You appear to have some kind of expectation that people are persecuting you specifically. You expect that people disagree with you, or object to your behavior, because they "hate" you or are out to get you.

More generally, the last couple of years you appear to have had problems that you work out online (something that many of us do), but by a very particular means: You turn this board into a desert of #Russiagate propaganda re-posts. Acres and acres of it. 24/7/365. As if NPR and MSNBC and WaPo and Politico and the rest did not already fulfill this function! R.I. as a teeny-tiny corporate media echo chamber.

Sidenote: #Russiagate is a social sickness, a form of externalization and denial that projects American problems on to the image of a foreign enemy. This has had many good people in its grip over the last two years. But there is little excuse for it on rational grounds, and it is a highly destructive political syndrome that has more or less led to the rescue and normalization of Trump, on the one hand, and the ideological reinforcement of the absolute worst aspects of the imperialist state. This, I do hate. (Witness today's panic and even some center-left protest because a war criminal resigned from office, because of a troop withdrawal!)

It is especially hard to justify from someone who once was on the right side of obvious propaganda operations like the launching of the war of aggression in 2003 and pretty much everything else that happened under the Bush regime.

Politics of that aside: the point that causes the controversy about your board presence is not that you advance #Russiagate, but that you seem unable to control the flooding behavior here. It is often, again, bizarroland, way off-topic stuff, for miles, often random collections thrown into random threads. Ignore is not enough. It basically means that the board is not going to be read by new people who have to scroll through this crap. Ignore can't stop your ceaseless thread proliferation.

You now have a kind of alliance going with someone who similarly dominates the board by flooding, but who almost certainly does so with malintent. He is not your friend, and you recognized that at one time.

(Now I'm assuming. For all I know you are teamed up as a sophisticated tag team, but that seems extremely unlikely.)

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:06 pm

are you finished Dr. Jack?

mis representing?????'


that is EXACTLY what you just did with liminalOyster...which you seem to conveniently forget for your purposes
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:10 pm

Too bad you don't like it. It's not very nice of me, it's true. You are unable to see what your behavior here does to anyone else participating (which makes me a fool).

Just stop. The flooding.

Or perhaps:

"The only card she had left was resignation."
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:13 pm

I will never again do you a favor ...all I ever get for that is a slap in the face.....been there done that

thanks for evading your mis representation of liminalOyster

You are unable to see quite a few things yourself Jack....one of them is your constant interactions with me are not going to make me leave here ....in fact it just makes matters worse...someone as smart as you ....one would think you would have recognized that by now

hoping for my resignation isn't really going to make things easier for anyone
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby peartreed » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:18 pm

“Jack Riddler” your intolerance is insufferable.

Due to your denial, dismissal and denigration of all those who disagree with you, as well as your self-admitted foulmouthed cruelty to the authors of such posts, you are increasingly emulating the temperament and tactics of the current leader you also despise for that exact same behavior. You are dividing this board into fighting factions just the same way as Trump has split the USA into rival ideological camps.

While some of that division was pre-existing, you are exacerbating it to extremes.

Unlike your commentary on the hateful thread you launched against American Dream, many of us do read the board thoroughly - including all your diatribes. While we may not comment on “the facts and evidence” you contend support your view, we draw our own conclusions based on accurate perceptions of your arguments. The actual facts and reality do include perspectives opposite your own view and, like Trump, you need to accommodate that realization into your online conduct.

For example, some of us enjoy some posts from seemslikeadream and American Dream despite your criticisms and others of their “flooding” volume. Some of us also often enjoy their accompanying commentary, arguments and personalities as well as the articles they share. Many R.I. board readers and fans do not post at all.

Similarly, many of us support the “Russiagate” perspective on Russian intrusion into Trump’s administration but don’t necessarily read or follow NPR, MSNBC, WaPo or Politico. In my case I appreciate summaries of that news provided by SLAD or AD. I also used to enjoy your counterarguments and those of other alternate perspectives when presented intelligently, with calm reason, civility and persuasive support data. I could also get your views at RT, Sputnik or Pravda buy I prefer the personal perspectives posted here.

What I oppose is the Trump-like boorishness, insult, arrogance and cruel venality as evidenced in your hateful thread about AD and its further insults cutting up SLAD.

It is no surprise that MacCruiskeen copies your conduct and supports your belligerent denigration of others. Similarly, Belligerent Savant ‘s sycophantic support was predictable, as was Rory’s and others in your Trump-like “base”. That gang of your obnoxiously offensive, cheering echo chamber is also adolescent in the acrimonious attacks on AD and SLAD and any others who don’t join your tag team.

If this board collapses in its own acrimonious immaturity, you can take full credit.

I just hope that the adults still left in the room hang in there while you try to grow up and behave responsibly and with greater social awareness and empathy for others. I realize that’s about as likely as Trump developing compassion and social acumen.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:51 pm

^^^^^ cartoonish (mis)representations and attributions.

It's no wonder you hold the views you claim to espouse here, given the above twaddle.

Consider the above my default response to any/all further 'commentary' by Peartreed; no further words are worth typing for that one.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:06 pm

of course .......most of my friends do not post here anymore just because of posts like that...they are not going to take that crap ...you Jack and Mac have driven them away...they come here and read me every single day ...I know that because I have continued many friendships over the last 14 years and am in touch with them all the time ....their continued support helps me not give into your thoughts and prayers for me but they have no desire to be treated like that ...I don't blame them

just like Jack you continue with unsubstantiated "facts" about me and when you are called on them you just ignore it just like Jack

you constantly say you are leaving...going back to lurking to drum up support or this board will loose you threaten to leave if things don't change but the very next day here you are again ....if you three would just post what you are interested in instead of constantly complaining about me ....you could have your say but that's not really what you want is it ...if it was you could be doing it right now.....instead of persistent bellyaching ...you have every opportunity to start threads at any time you chose not to...you find trashing me and the friends I have left here more important than anything.....more important than starting a thread or just replying to a post that is of interest to you

why you blame me for you not posting is a mystery ....I have no power over you ...I don't control your keyboard

I thank Peartree for being a friend to me
THIS IS THE END OF MY PRESIDENCY. I'M F***ED
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:34 pm

peartreed » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:18 pm wrote:“Jack Riddler” your intolerance is insufferable.


A touch, a touch, I fear I breathe my last.*

You are dividing this board into fighting factions just the same way as Trump has split the USA into rival ideological camps.


The Power! Mwahaha! :twisted:

many of us do read the board thoroughly


Come forward, all! Let me have it! Overthrow your Board Trump!!!

Similarly, many of us support the “Russiagate” perspective on Russian intrusion into Trump’s administration


Little to do with it. Only two of "us" have commandeered the board on behalf of this psyop. You're not one of them.

I could also get your views at RT, Sputnik or Pravda


No you couldn't.

Coming from the other guy, this would be slander. From you, no big deal.

It is no surprise that MacCruiskeen copies your conduct and supports your belligerent denigration of others.


^^^ HEY MacC! GET A LOAD OF THIS. ^^^

You've been designated my beta! Bet ya didn't see that one coming, you Raging Bruce, you. And after all the crap you've given me. Who's your daddy? Kneel before Zod! Mwahahahaha!

Similarly, Belligerent Savant ‘s sycophantic support was predictable, as was Rory’s and others in your Trump-like “base”.


And they all thought I hated them. Must be Stockholm Syndrome.

That gang of your obnoxiously offensive, cheering echo chamber is also adolescent in the acrimonious attacks on AD and SLAD and any others who don’t join your tag team.


Damn, how come AD can't do a move this simple? Good work on his behalf.

* btw, What does it do for you to put my username in scarequotes, "Pear Treed"?

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:55 pm

[To "JackRiddler", cringing] Master, I fear our cover has been blown...

[To peartreed, in a last desperate bid for freedom] It's true, I confess all! I throw myself on your mercy! But be rigorous with me, I beg of you, I deserve it! "JackRiddler", aka "Pozzo", is a Russian Bolshevik slavedriver, he is a master of disguise, he owns 17 fake passports, his real name is unknown even to me, and he brooks no opposition, the commie bastard. Save me from his deadly deathloving deathcult! Ever since he abducted me from the Bolshoi Ballet I have only once dared think an independent thought.... [breaks down, grovels, weeps piteously]


VLADIMIR:
He thinks?

POZZO:
Certainly. Aloud. He even used to think very prettily once, I could listen to him
for hours. Now . . . (he shudders). So much the worse for me. Well, would you
like him to think something for us?

ESTRAGON:
I'd rather he dance, it'd be more fun.

POZZO: Not necessarily.

ESTRAGON:
Wouldn't it, Didi, be more fun?

VLADIMIR:
I'd like well to hear him think.

ESTRAGON:
Perhaps he could dance first and think afterwards, if it isn't too much to ask him.

VLADIMIR:
(to Pozzo). Would that be possible?

POZZO:
By all means, nothing simpler. It's the natural order.

He laughs briefly.

VLADIMIR:
Then let him dance.

Silence.

POZZO:
Do you hear, hog?

ESTRAGON:
He never refuses?

POZZO:
He refused once.

Silence.

Dance, misery!

Lucky puts down bag and basket, advances towards front, turns to Pozzo. Lucky
dances. He stops.


ESTRAGON:
Is that all?

POZZO:
Encore!

Lucky executes the same movements, stops.

ESTRAGON:
Pooh! I'd do as well myself. (He imitates Lucky, almost falls.) With a little
practice.

POZZO:
He used to dance the farandole, the fling, the brawl, the jig, the fandango and
even the hornpipe. He capered. For joy. Now that's the best he can do. Do you
know what he calls it?

ESTRAGON:
The Scapegoat's Agony.

VLADIMIR:
The Hard Stool.

POZZO:
The Net. He thinks he's entangled in a net.

....
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://resources.saylor.org/wwwresources/archived/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Waiting-for-Godot.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwivkOKa-rHfAhWnwAIHHS5ICCoQFjALegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw1MlbtL11PIu5g2Dl3T1j1z




I think I'm entangled in a net.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Of felony [...]
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:08 pm

seemslikeadream » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:06 pm wrote:of course .......most of my friends do not post here anymore just because of posts like that...they are not going to take that crap ...you Jack and Mac have driven them away...they come here and read me every single day ...I know that because I have continued many friendships over the last 14 years and am in touch with them all the time ....their continued support helps me not give into your thoughts and prayers for me but they have no desire to be treated like that ...I don't blame them

just like Jack you continue with unsubstantiated "facts" about me and when you are called on them you just ignore it just like Jack

you constantly say you are leaving...going back to lurking to drum up support or this board will loose you threaten to leave if things don't change but the very next day here you are again ....if you three would just post what you are interested in instead of constantly complaining about me ....you could have your say but that's not really what you want is it ...if it was you could be doing it right now.....instead of persistent bellyaching ...you have every opportunity to start threads at any time you chose not to...you find trashing me and the friends I have left here more important than anything.....more important than starting a thread or just replying to a post that is of interest to you

why you blame me for you not posting is a mystery ....I have no power over you ...I don't control your keyboard

I thank Peartree for being a friend to me


It's uncanny, your continued misrepresentations, your perpetual strawman arguments, your re-framing of points raised by others (and of course, the solipsistic self-reference).

If it's a form of performance art/trolling: it's somewhat impressive.
If it's a lack of reading comprehension, my condolences.

Enjoy these virtual/avatar friends of yours.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:48 pm

Don’t worry sweetie it will never happen again... the smell of condescending is too overwhelming

From this point on we will have no interaction count on it


as of 7:59pm Dec. 21 things have changed as far as I am concerned
THIS IS THE END OF MY PRESIDENCY. I'M F***ED
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