Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy attack

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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby peartreed » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:50 pm

<yawn> The recycling of this mayhem is so tedious it is taking a toll on forum fun and pleasant participation in pursuing actual topics of interest.

One characteristic that Wombaticus Rex and JackRiddler share with seemslikeadream is the courage of their own convictions and the ability to communicate those opinions with enough clarity that they stand on their own without needing interpretation, repetition and endorsement by others to demonstrate a group consensus. They all are strong individual, solid voices. There is no need to constantly regurgitate them.

When others “pile on” simply to overwhelm the target of that ire with uninvited additional group pressure, often obviously motivated by a simple desire to sadistically participate in the persecution of a sensitive or unpopular or outnumbered opponent, it becomes apparent that is simply bullying by sycophantic followers to compound the continuing cruelty and crush the victim under the weight of majority rule and dominance. They, again, want to join in on the follow-up group violence and vicarious smothering.

Often these bullies are less articulate, admiring wannabes only capable of copying, quoting and imitating others, rather than expressing their personal but elaborating perspectives that add valuable insight into the issues in dispute. They do, however, specialize in juvenile insult and baiting and the thrill of vicarious violence. “Yes Men” applies.

Avatars are also often revealing of intended image projection and intent, such as, “Belligerent Savant” can also be translated as, “Aggressively Angry Know-It-All”. That implied arrogance, superiority and lack of compassionate sympathy are bully traits. It is not surprising such a personality ridicules friendship, faith and soulful music imagery.

But the damage to the forum is evidenced up thread here, and over recent years, when group pressure becomes gangsterism and incites exactly the defensive volume of posts at issue. It should deter the more intelligent members here from adding to and compounding the cruelty of the ongoing pattern of group aggression and disruption in passive-aggressive-defensive chaos.

Again, we all need to return to more civil and sensitive tolerance of diversity.

And to the topic of this thread.

The group dynamics involved in covertly killing spies and political patsies on both sides of the propaganda war show how bullying is addictive and grows exponentially when incited and sanctioned by callous leaders corrupting a gullible following of similar sadists.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby RocketMan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:16 am

SLAD's most recent copy pasta assault on this thread was just petty and frankly childish.

I don't see how anyone could disagree that such dumps bring the whole forum down, reducing the readability of entire threads. Large photos of people's faces you have to scroll to see in their entirety. Makes me angry.

There is pride and there is obsession.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:08 am

when were you ever hounded into changing the title of a thread of yours?

but thanks for the off topic post I guess it is an understandable mistake considering all the off topic posts you may have been confused about the topic of this thread although off topic pile ons are always appreciated

what makes me angry is the 20 off topic posts by peacocks that are complaining that I make off topic posts (just petty and frankly childish)


the constant obsession with one peacock to get me to leave here (just petty and frankly childish) makes me angry

the lying (just petty and frankly childish) by Mr. Peacock makes me angry

the peacocks had a hissy fit posted dozens of off topic replies (just petty and frankly childish)because I wouldn't change the title of this thread ....they started their own Precious Putin Thread why don't they use it?




maybe I"ll start posting in that one if this obsessive disruption continues.......that could be a promise

THIS IS NOT THE DUMP ON SLAD THREAD
The only card he has left to play is his resignation
— Neal Katyal

Is minic a bhris béal duine a shrón

Russian/Siberian Agent school girl Maria (NRA) Butina pleads guilty to CONSPIRACY against the U.S. and is cooperating with prosecutors
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby RocketMan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:19 am

Or maybe most people here just wish you would continue posting, but with just a little less material per one posting, and maybe edited so that the main points you want to convey stand out..?
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:24 am

if I did that then you would complain that I am continually bumping my threads with new one link replies .....I put more than one link in a post in order not to do that...so you are against off topic replies you are just against me posting more than one link in a post and pictures...ok I'll keep that in mind

do you want me to make 10 consecutive individual replies...don't you think the crew will have a big problem with that bumping a thread of mine 10 times or just one post including them all....

I think I will try your suggestion and see how it goes one link one post rule ....I'll link back to you if a problem arises and you can explain

just when did posting pics here become a problem ...oh yeah when someone needed to have just another excuse to piss on me I have never heard anyone complain about posting pics here until just a few days ago..if I am wrong please link to where there has been a complaint about pics in the past ....I had no idea it was such a problem

if this posting pics problem is such a concern maybe a new rule should be made and pinned at the top so everyone is aware

we've been through the reason for posting full articles I'm not going to go into that again

but thanks again for another off topic post...we can continue this critique on me but I am not changing the title to DUMP ON SLAD or you could start a DUMP ON SLAD thread but I think that is against the rules also so we are safe here in this thread to do that please be my guest and continue although I believe that would be against the rules but I am the only one breaking rules around here :roll:


from now on I will only posts pics in my threads and in the image thread ..

if I forget please alert a mod and he will have my permission to delete it
The only card he has left to play is his resignation
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Russian/Siberian Agent school girl Maria (NRA) Butina pleads guilty to CONSPIRACY against the U.S. and is cooperating with prosecutors
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby peartreed » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:51 pm

I support the apparent mutual agreement to limit links to one per post and reduce the size or number of image pics in each post in order to enhance readability. I also think that will help reduce the volume of lengthy posts covering several linked items in one display. All of these format suggestions and modifications for post presentations are positive and impersonal.

Perhaps I’m a bit more aware of the impact of social pressure since, just this week, I have spent hours in a hospital emergency room with a much-loved, very close relative who has suffered life-threatening stroke symptoms brought on by anxiety stress.

This patient has an overload of responsibility and dependence by others on them. Their work and their family tasks are compounded by chronic medical issues, theirs and other family members', but their self-sacrifice, empathy and endless service for other people drives their life.

They were not aware of the serious stress impact on them until that almost cost their life.

To varying degrees we all have significant personal life pressures too – ones that we have to recognize, balance, limit and manage so that we resolve our self-protection.

That is a recent example of why I try to avoid unnecessary stress, anxiety, anger and strife in life – for myself and, especially, for others I care about and am fond of or close to. I know I’m not alone in that empathetic outlook. Most folks are kind.

Social pressure that involves group criticism in what should be a hobby activity, like the mind stimulation and recreation benefits of participating in dynamic forum discussion, can take its toll, physically, mentally and emotionally - especially cruel ire, personal criticism and bullying. No cause or instigation warrants that stress. Few realize it can actually prove fatal.

So let’s keep the criticism and corrective suggestions here impersonal and objective. Cut out the insult, anger and personalized amateur psychoanalysis of members and confine the commentary to real solutions for better forum function and operation.

We can all benefit from suggestions for improvement of RI without all the rancor. The last exchange illustrates that.

We don’t need to drive one another out of the place and into the local hospital ward - or into the grave as a monument to stupidity.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:04 am

You know both Trump and Putin have won when Dad and Mom keep Edward Albeeing about them.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:19 am

ah stickdog99 but we could have had so much fun if it had been the dreaded asbestos killer :P

the good ol' days when talking about a criminal in the WH was a thing

______________________________


is that a fish head peeking out of his pocket? :P

Daniel Sandford

@BBCDanielS
2h2 hours ago

The suspects were caught on CCTV on Wilton Road at 11.58 on the Sunday “moments before the attack”

Image




Salisbury Novichok poisoning: Two Russian nationals named as suspects
Image
Alexander Petrov and Ruslan BoshirovMet Police
Alexander Petrov (left) and Ruslan Boshirov are not thought to be their real names
Two Russian nationals have been named as suspects in the attempted murder of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

There is "sufficient evidence" to charge Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov over the attack in Salisbury, Scotland Yard and the CPS say.

They are thought to have been using the names as aliases and are about 40.

Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, were poisoned with nerve agent Novichok in March.

The CPS is not applying to Russia for the extradition of the two men, as Russia does not have extradition agreements with the UK. A European Arrest Warrant has been obtained in case they travel to the EU, however.

In response, the Russian foreign ministry has said the names and photographs of the men "do not mean anything to Moscow".

Police are now linking the poisoning to an attack on 30 June, when Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley fell ill at a house in Amesbury, about eight miles from Salisbury.

Ms Sturgess died in hospital on 9 July. Mr Rowley was discharged from hospital on 20 July.

Sue Hemming, CPS director of legal services, said there was enough evidence "to provide a realistic prospect of conviction" and that it was "clearly in the public interest to charge Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov".


The offences include conspiracy to murder Sergei Skripal; the attempted murder of Sergei Skripal, Yulia Skripal and Nick Bailey; the use and possession of Novichok contrary to the Chemical Weapons Act; and causing grievous bodily harm with intent to Yulia Skripal and Nick Bailey.

Det Sgt Nick Bailey also fell ill after responding to the incident in Salisbury.

Scotland Yard's Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, the head of UK counter-terrorism policing, said on Wednesday he "continues to make good progress but remains off work".

The Metropolitan Police said the two men had arrived at Gatwick Airport from Moscow on 2 March and stayed at the City Stay Hotel in Bow Road, east London.

From there, they travelled to Salisbury on 4 March where Mr Skripal's front door was contaminated with Novichok.

Officers believe a perfume bottle was used to spray the door.

There is no risk to other guests staying at the hotel at the time, police said.

Police said Ms Sturgess and Mr Rowley were later exposed to Novichok after handling a contaminated container, labelled as Nina Ricci Premier Jour perfume.

Mr Rowley has told police he found the box containing the small bottle and an applicator in a charity bin.

He tried to put the two parts together and got some of the contents on himself. His partner Ms Sturgess applied some of the contents to her wrists and became unwell.

Mr Basu said: "We don't yet know where the suspects disposed of the Novichok they used to attack the door, where Dawn and Charlie got the bottle that poisoned them, or if it is the same bottle used in both poisonings."

But he added that "the manner in which the bottle and packaging has been adapted makes it a perfect cover for smuggling the weapon into the country, and a perfect delivery method for the attack against the Skripal's front door".
Image
The perfume bottleMet Police
The small perfume bottle recovered from Mr Rowley's home
But Mr Basu confirmed that the two cases were related, saying: "We have now linked the attack on the Skripals and the events in Amesbury which affected Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley.

"It now forms one investigation. We do not believe Dawn and Charlie were deliberately targeted, but became victims as a result of the recklessness in which such a toxic nerve agent was disposed of."

Prime Minister Theresa May is due to make a statement in the House of Commons shortly, to update MPs on the Salisbury investigation.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45421445





UK names two Russians it believes carried out the nerve agent attack on ex-spy
In July, British police had said they'd identified several Russians who they believed were behind the attack but this is the first time they have named them.

Russia has repeatedly denied any involvement in the attack and has, in turn, accused the U.K. of fabricating it.
Russia's foreign ministry says the names of the suspect "do not mean anything to us."
Holly Ellyatt
Published 1 Hour Ago Updated 8 Mins Ago
CNBC.com
Image
UK's Met Police
British prosecutors named two Russian men they believe were behind the nerve agent attack on a former Russian spy and his daughter in the U.K. earlier this year.

They named the men as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov. They have been charged with attempted murder of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia, who were found unconscious on a park bench in the small English city of Salisbury in March.

An international warrant has been issued for their arrest. The U.K. said it will not seek the suspects' extradition as Russia does not extradite its own citizens.

Russia's foreign ministry responded to the announcement saying the names published "do not mean anything to us," state news agency RIA said, according to Reuters. It reiterated its position that the investigation of cases such as the Skripal poisoning require "close cooperation and careful analysis."

Russia has repeatedly denied any involvement in the attack and has, in turn, accused the U.K. of fabricating it. The Kremlin also criticized the U.K.'s decision to not allow it to take part in its investigation.

Traveling under aliases

Neil Basu, the U.K.'s counter terrorism chief, said the suspects were likely to have traveled under aliases — meaning the names U.K. prosecutors announced on Wednesday are unlikely to be the real names of the suspects — but that both men are around 40 years old and had used genuine Russian passports.

Basu said traces of the nerve agent used by the suspects to poison the Skripals were found in a London hotel room they stayed in before heading to Salisbury.

U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May is expected to make a statement on the announcement to members of parliament later on Wednesday.

In July, British police had said they'd identified several Russians who they believed were behind the attack but this is the first time they have named them.

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Hear what else Buffett has to say

Novichok, a type of deadly nerve agent developed in Russia in the 1970s and 1980s, was used to poison the pair who became critically ill but later recovered.

A police officer who attended the Skripals also became critically ill but also later recovered. In July, however, two members of the public, Charlie Rowley and Dawn Burgess, were poisoned after they inadvertently came into contact with the nerve agent, believed to have been discarded after the attack.

Both became critically ill and Burgess later died.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/05/uk-russ ... oning.html


IN THE FRAME First pics of Russian spy suspects wanted over Salisbury Novichok poison hit on Sergei Skripal and his daughter

Image
Image
Image
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7180856/s ... -suspects/




Gordon Corera


BREAKING - Prime Minister: Based on a body of intelligence, UK believes two individuals named by the police are officers in the Russian military intelligence service - the GRU. "This was not a rogue operation" almost certainly approved outside of the GRU at a senior level
4:59 AM - 5 Sep 2018
https://twitter.com/gordoncorera/status ... 9939503109
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Russian/Siberian Agent school girl Maria (NRA) Butina pleads guilty to CONSPIRACY against the U.S. and is cooperating with prosecutors
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Sounder » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:07 am

peartreed wrote...
So let’s keep the criticism and corrective suggestions here impersonal and objective. Cut out the insult, anger and personalized amateur psychoanalysis of members and confine the commentary to real solutions for better forum function and operation.


Excellent ideas. In the future it's good to know you will not be calling people here sadists or whatnot. Feel free to call us masochists however, as that at least contains the virtue of accuracy.

Solutions? That is a tough nut. Most folk are addicted to pushing and pulling on emotional triggers as a way to avoid contact with empirical truths that conflict with that persons beliefs and pretensions. One small step toward balance might be for the board to put a limit on the number of threads any one poster can have on the first page, and/or the amount one can bump their own thread.

Early on in this Skirpal saga, a reporter said he went right up to the door of the Skirpal residence and there was no police tape or anyone around to warn him away from touching the deadly door knob. To keep going on about a thing as if it is true, as presented by our authorities, without dealing with obvious flaws in the narrative, over time amounts to gas-lighting.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Harvey » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:52 am

Sounder, you're not alone in your observations.

Anyway, on the topic, the door knob would appear to be officially out, according to the latest addition to the official narrative(s.) This latest bullshit does appear to leave the doorknob rationale in tatters. But who cares? The whole story is inconsistent in any of it's parts and riven with demonstrable falsehoods. Anyone following the minutiae of the story would be forgiven for calling bullshit and leaving it well alone to spend more time with family.

Skripals – The Mystery Deepens
6 Sep, 2018

The time that “Boshirov and Petrov” were allegedly in Salisbury carrying out the attack is all entirely within the period the Skripals were universally reported to have left their home with their mobile phones switched off.

A key hole in the British government’s account of the Salisbury poisonings has been plugged – the lack of any actual suspects. And it has been plugged in a way that appears broadly convincing – these two men do appear to have traveled to Salisbury at the right time to have been involved.

But what has not been established is the men’s identity and that they are agents of the Russian state, or just what they did in Salisbury. If they are Russian agents, they are remarkably amateur assassins. Meanwhile the new evidence throws the previously reported timelines into confusion – and demolishes the theories put out by “experts” as to why the Novichok dose was not fatal.

This BBC report gives a very useful timeline summary of events.

At 09.15 on Sunday 4 March the Skripals’ car was seen on CCTV driving through three different locations in Salisbury. Both Skripals had switched off their mobile phones and they remained off for over four hours, which has baffled geo-location.

There is no CCTV footage that indicates the Skripals returning to their home. It has therefore always been assumed that they last touched the door handle around 9am.

But the Metropolitan Police state that Boshirov and Petrov did not arrive in Salisbury until 11.48 on the day of the poisoning. That means that they could not have applied a nerve agent to the Skripals’ doorknob before noon at the earliest. But there has never been any indication that the Skripals returned to their home after noon on Sunday 4 March. If they did so, they and/or their car somehow avoided all CCTV cameras. Remember they were caught by three CCTV cameras on leaving, and Borishov and Petrov were caught frequently on CCTV on arriving.

The Skripals were next seen on CCTV at 13.30, driving down Devizes road. After that their movements were clearly witnessed or recorded until their admission to hospital.

So even if the Skripals made an “invisible” trip home before being seen on Devizes Road, that means the very latest they could have touched the doorknob is 13.15. The longest possible gap between the novichok being placed on the doorknob and the Skripals touching it would have been one hour and 15 minutes. Do you recall all those “experts” leaping in to tell us that the “ten times deadlier than VX” nerve agent was not fatal because it had degraded overnight on the doorknob? Well that cannot be true. The time between application and contact was between a minute and (at most) just over an hour on this new timeline.

In general it is worth observing that the Skripals, and poor Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley, all managed to achieve almost complete CCTV invisibility in their widespread movements around Salisbury at the key times, while in contrast “Petrov and Boshirov” managed to be frequently caught in high quality all the time during their brief visit.

This is especially remarkable in the case of the Skripals’ location around noon on 4 March. The government can only maintain that they returned home at this time, as they insist they got the nerve agent from the doorknob. But why was their car so frequently caught on CCTV leaving, but not at all returning? It appears very much more probable that they came into contact with the nerve agent somewhere else, while they were out.

“Boshirov and Petrov” plainly are of interest in this case. But only Theresa May stated they were Russian agents: the police did not, and stated that they expected those were not their real identities. We do not know who Boshirov and Petrov were. It appears very likely their appearance was to do with the Skripals on that day. But they may have been meeting them, outside the home. The evidence points to that, rather than doorknobs. Such a meeting might explain why the Skripals had turned off their mobile phones to attempt to avoid surveillance.

It is also telling the police have pressed no charges against them in the case of Dawn Sturgess, which would be manslaughter at least if the government version is true.

If “Boshirov and Petrov” are secret agents, their incompetence is astounding. They used public transport rather than a vehicle and left the clearest possible CCTV footprint. They failed in their assassination attempt. They left traces of novichok everywhere and could well have poisoned themselves, and left the “murder weapon” lying around to be found. Their timings in Salisbury were extremely tight – and British Sunday rail service dependent.

There are other possibilities of who “Boshirov and Petrov” really are, of which Ukrainian is the obvious one. One thing I discovered when British Ambassador to Uzbekistan was that there had been a large Ukrainian ethnic group of scientists working at the Soviet chemical weapon testing facility there at Nukus. There are many other possibilities.

Yesterday’s revelations certainly add to the amount we know about the Skripal event. But they raise as many new questions as they give answers.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:13 am

Salisbury poisoning: Sergei Skripal had put danger and drama behind him ... or so he thought
ben macintyre


Before March of this year, few outside the inner ring of the spy world had ever heard of Sergei Skripal: a Russian former spy living in quiet anonymity in Salisbury, giving the occasional private lecture on intelligence, drinking in the local pubs — a leftover, half-forgotten relic from the later Cold War.

And then someone tried to kill him, triggering a diplomatic firestorm and setting off one of the most extensive criminal investigations of modern times.

Mr Skripal – or Agent Forthwith to give him his MI6 codename – turned out to be a far more significant historical figure than anyone expected, including Mr Skripal himself.

The murder of the former Russian intelligence officer Alexander Litvinenko seemed to offer an obvious precedent for what had…

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sali ... -5spbc3trl



UK minister says Putin to blame for Skripal poisoning

London has accused two members of Russian military intelligence of using Novichok to try to kill a former Russian spy.

4 hours ago
UK minister says Putin to blame for Skripal poisoning
British Security Minister Ben Wallace said Russian President Putin had 'ultimate' responsibility for the nerve agent attack [Metropolitan Police/Reuters]
British Security Minister Ben Wallace has said that Russian President Vladimir Putin had "ultimate" responsibility for a nerve agent attack on a former Russian double agent in England in March.

London has accused two members of Russia's military intelligence service of using Novichok to try to kill former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in the southwestern city of Salisbury in March.

Asked if Putin bore responsibility, Wallace said: "Ultimately he does in so far as he is the president of the Russian Federation and it is his government that controls, funds and directs the military intelligence, the GRU, via his ministry of defence."

He told BBC radio on Thursday: "I don't think anyone can ever say that Mr Putin isn't in control of his state... And the GRU is without doubt not rogue."

Prime Minister Theresa May also confirmed the involvement of Russia's military intelligence on Wednesday but did not accuse Putin directly.

Security Council

British prosecutors issued arrest warrants on Wednesday for Alexander Petrov and Russian Boshirov, charging them with conspiracy to murder.

They said they would not formally demand their extradition, as Russia does not extradite its citizens, but have obtained a European Arrest Warrant for the pair.

Britain will present its evidence at a UN Security Council meeting on Thursday, a spokesman for Theresa May told reporters.

"We have called for a Security Council meeting to take place on Thursday so we can update the Council on the progress of the Salisbury investigation," he said.

The meeting is due to take place around 1530 GMT, he added.

The US ambassador to London, Woody Johnson, and the Australian government have also offered their support for Britain's stance against Russia.

Wallace said his government would seek to "maintain the pressure" on Russia "to say that the behaviour we've seen is totally unacceptable".

Options include "more sanctions", however, he noted that Russia would be there and would likely use its veto on any statement that might arise.

Doubts and questions

Russia has questioned the charges.

"The names published by the media, like their photographs, mean nothing to us," Maria Zakharova, the foreign ministry's spokeswoman, told TASS news agency.

"The Russian side has numerous questions for London."

Zakharova demanded British authorities work with Moscow on the case.

"Once again we call on the British side to move away from public accusations and informational manipulations towards practical collaboration of law enforcement agencies," she said.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/09/ ... 04828.html




Planes, trains and fake names: the trail left by Skripal suspects

Images retrieved from thousands of hours of CCTV offer clues as to how the attack was carried out

Luke Harding
Wed 5 Sep 2018 12.19 EDT

Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov as Salisbury station

The two men identified as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov at Salisbury station on 3 March, the day before the Skripal attack. Photograph: AFP/Getty Images
The two men were dressed inconspicuously in jeans, fleece jackets and trainers as they boarded the flight from Moscow to Gatwick. Their names, according to their Russian passports, were Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov. Both were around 40 years old. Neither looked suspicious.

The plane trundled down the icy runway. In Moscow the temperatures had fallen below -10C, not unusual for early March. In Britain it had been snowing. The pair had brought woolly hats. They had also packed a bottle of what appeared to be the Nina Ricci perfume Premier Jour. The box it came in was prettily decorated with flowers, it listed ingredients including alcohol and it bore the words “Made in France”.

According to the Metropolitan police, the bottle in fact contained novichok, a lethal nerve agent developed in the late Soviet Union. The bottle had been specially made to be leakproof and had a customised applicator. Moscow’s notorious poisons factory run by the KGB made similar devices throughout the cold war.

Petrov and Boshirov were aliases, detectives believe. Both men are suspected to be career officers with the GRU, Russia’s powerful and highly secretive military intelligence service. The GRU is separate from the FSB and sometimes a rival to it. It is the agency the FBI has said hacked Democratic party emails during the 2016 presidential election.

The officers’ assignment was covert. They were coming to Britain not as tourists but as assassins. Their target was Sergei Skripal, a former GRU officer who spied for British intelligence, got caught and was freed in a spy exchange in 2010. They were heading for his home in provincial Salisbury.

Their Aeroflot flight SU2588 touched down at 3pm on Friday 2 March. They were recorded on CCTV going through passport control, Boshirov with dark hair and a goatee beard, Petrov unshaven and wearing a blue gingham shirt. Both were carrying satchels slung casually over the shoulder. According to police, the pair had visited the UK before.

From Gatwick they caught the train to London Victoria station and then the tube to east London, where they checked in to the City Stay hotel in Bow. It was a low-profile choice of accommodation. The red-brick Victorian building is next to a branch of Barclays bank, a busy train line and a wall daubed with graffiti. Across the road is a car pound and a Texaco garage.

The City Stay hotel in Bow
The City Stay hotel in Bow, east London, where the two men stayed. Photograph: Toby Melville/Reuters
The plot to kill Skripal was uncannily similar to the operation in 2006 to murder Alexander Litvinenko, the Russian dissident and former FSB officer who was poisoned with radioactive tea. His two assassins, Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitry Kovtun, arrived at Gatwick from Moscow and checked into a Soho hotel. The murder weapon was polonium-210, almost certainly hidden in another small container.

On hostile territory, Boshirov and Petrov operated in the manner of classic intelligence operatives. The next day, Saturday 3 March, they travelled to Salisbury to check out the area, catching the train from London Waterloo and arriving at 2.25pm. They spent nearly two hours in town and left at 4.10pm. CCTV captured them at Salisbury station apparently peering at the departure board, Borishov holding a pair of black gloves.

On the day of the hit, according to detectives, the pair made a similar journey, taking the 8.05am train from Waterloo to Salisbury and arriving at 11.48am. The perfume bottle was probably concealed in a light grey backpack carried by Petrov. From Salisbury station the two men set off on foot. It was a short walk of about a mile to Skripal’s semi-detached home in Christie Miller Road.

CCTV recorded them again, walking side by side along Wilton Road, almost in lockstep, minutes before the attack. They passed a petrol station. At some point they will have turned right, either along a road or up a path that leads through a small wood. At Skripal’s house the Russians smeared or sprayed novichok on to the front door handle, police say.

The moment went unobserved but an image retrieved by police from thousands of hours of CCTV offers further clues. At 1.05pm the men were recorded in Fisherton Street on their way back to the station. They appeared more relaxed, Petrov grinning even. Their main remaining tasks were to dispose of the poison and leave the country.

The two suspects on Fisherton Road in Salisbury
The two suspects on Fisherton Road in Salisbury at 1.05pm on 4 March. Photograph: Handout/Getty Images
At some point on their walk back they must have tossed away the bottle, which at this point was too dangerous to try to smuggle back through customs. It ended up in a charity bin, which would later have terrible consequences for Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley.

At 1.50pm the suspects were seen at Salisbury station, going through the ticket barriers on their way back to London. Nobody paid them much attention. By the time Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, were found collapsed on a park bench in the centre of Salisbury later that afternoon, the poisoners were gone.

Seemingly, the GRU plan – executed two weeks before Russia’s presidential election – had worked perfectly. Except it hadn’t. As in the Litivnenko case, the would-be killers had left a trail. Minute traces of novichok were found in the hotel room where Petrov and Boshirov stayed. And against all medical predictions, the Skripals survived.

The visitors were captured on CCTV one more time, at Heathrow airport. It was 7.28pm and both men were going through security, Petrov first, wheeling a small black case. In his right hand was a shiny red object, his Russian passport. Police believe the passport was genuine, his name not. In other words, that it was a sophisticated espionage operation carried out by a state or state entities.

The Aeroflot flight took off at about 10.30pm. There is no prospect of either of the men ever returning to British soil. Their real identities and current whereabouts are unknown.

Theresa May told the House of Commons on Wednesday that the conspiracy must have been approved at a senior level outside the GRU. This was code for Vladimir Putin, the man whom a public inquiry found in 2016 had “probably” signed off on the operation to kill Litvinenko. The UK security services say a “body of evidence” points to the GRU.

It seems clear that Moscow continues to view Britain as a playground for undercover operations and is relatively insouciant about the consequences, diplomatic and political. The Skripal attack may have misfired. But the message, mingling contempt and arrogance, is there for all to see: we can smite our enemies whenever and wherever we want, and there is nothing you can do about it.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... l-suspects






Salisbury Novichok poisoning: Could suspects be returned to the UK?

By Reality Check team BBC News
people in hazmat suits and masks at salisbury poisoning sceneGetty Images
Two Russian men suspected of the attempted murder of former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia, will not be extradited from Russia to be tried in the UK.

That's because it is written into the Russian constitution that its citizens may not be extradited to another state.

But if either of the suspects sets foot in any EU member state, they can then be brought to the UK under a mechanism called the European Arrest Warrant.

If an EU country believes that someone suspected of having committed a crime has travelled to another member state, it can ask that state to arrest them.

They must then be returned to the country that made the request, to be dealt with by its justice system.

Use of this mechanism has risen steadily over the past 10 years.

A European Arrest Warrant has already been issued for the two men, named as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, suspected members of Russian military intelligence.

The system means that extradition doesn't require a political decision in order for a suspect to be handed over, since EU countries can no longer refuse to surrender a suspect.

Novichok attack Russian 'agents' named
Russian spy: What happened to the Skripals?
Before the process was introduced in 2004, extradition used to take an average of one year, but that has been cut to an average of 48 days, according to the European Commission. A suspect must be handed over within a maximum of 90 days after arrest.

Between 2009 - when the data was first broken down by nationality - and 2017, two Russian nationals have been arrested and surrendered under a European Arrest Warrant at the request of the UK. One was wanted for fraud, the other for murder.

In total in 2017, the UK made 278 requests for the return of individuals, leading to 201 arrests. Of those, 183 were eventually turned over to the UK.

People wanted for child sex offences made up the largest group of wanted offenders, followed by murder and manslaughter.

Armed police officer in central ParisEPA
Use of the European Arrest Warrant has increased steadily over the past decade
But the largest group actually arrested was wanted for "offences against the person", including assault, with the second largest group wanted for drug offences.

Of all the people the UK requested that other EU states surrender to it, by far the biggest group were UK nationals, followed by Polish nationals.

UK citizens suspected of crimes can also be extradited from the UK to other EU countries.

In 2017, EU countries made 16,837 extradition requests, resulting in 1,510 arrests and 1,164 surrenders of suspects to be tried in other jurisdictions.

Low-value theft and drug offences were the common reasons for these requests.

And by far the most requests were made by Poland.

The UK has said it wants to continue to be part of the scheme after Brexit, but it's not clear whether this will be possible.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45424392?ns ... nel=social
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Sounder » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:58 am

Thanks Harvey

from the article Harvey posted....
If “Boshirov and Petrov” are secret agents, their incompetence is astounding. They used public transport rather than a vehicle and left the clearest possible CCTV footprint. They failed in their assassination attempt. They left traces of novichok everywhere and could well have poisoned themselves, and left the “murder weapon” lying around to be found. Their timings in Salisbury were extremely tight – and British Sunday rail service dependent.


And yet the next person can post the grabber headline; Images retrieved from thousands of hours of CCTV offer clues as to how the attack was carried out. Which narrative has more stickiness? They have pictures after all.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby dada » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:00 pm

If they are Russian agents, they are remarkably amateur assassins.


How about a third narrative? The entire op was to fake an assassination. Amateur assassins act in amateur fashion deliberately, leaving breadcrumbs. British intel look like dopes for letting it happen, then double-dopes for falling for the bait. And triple-dopes for continuing on their present course in a futile attempt to save face. A damage control scramble.

In this narrative, the damage control scramble effect is the point of the op. The intel agency struggle for narrative control is inside the real narrative. But who has narrative control has not changed, from before op to present.

To consider this third narrative, one has to set aside any assumptions of Kremlin innocence, as well any assumptions that British intel has any idea what hit them. One of the advantages of this narrative would be that most people can't even entertain it, can't consider that this 'push-and-pull between two lesser narratives' only takes place within the narrative, a narrative of the one who set it in motion. It seems too outlandish. I mean, who could be that clever?

edited to add: Just want to add that I'm being additive here, not subtractive. Presenting an alternative perspective into the mix, not out for narrative domination.
Last edited by dada on Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:04 pm

Novichok perfume bottle was found dumped in CHARITY collection bin


It was picked up by poisoning victim Charlie Rowley....apparently he is lying also :roll:
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby DrEvil » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:47 pm

Sounder » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:58 pm wrote:Thanks Harvey

from the article Harvey posted....
If “Boshirov and Petrov” are secret agents, their incompetence is astounding. They used public transport rather than a vehicle and left the clearest possible CCTV footprint. They failed in their assassination attempt. They left traces of novichok everywhere and could well have poisoned themselves, and left the “murder weapon” lying around to be found. Their timings in Salisbury were extremely tight – and British Sunday rail service dependent.


And yet the next person can post the grabber headline; Images retrieved from thousands of hours of CCTV offer clues as to how the attack was carried out. Which narrative has more stickiness? They have pictures after all.


A few things:
- London is a surveillance nightmare. If they had been driving around in a car the license plate readers/CCTV could have followed them much more easily. Public transport makes them just another face in the crowd. They would have been tracked either way, but on public transport it's much harder to do so. Public transport also has less of a paper trail than renting a car.

- Whoever set this whole thing up obviously wanted it to become a big scandal. If they just wanted rid of Skripal he would have been mugged or had an accident or a heart attack.

- If these are the guys who actually did the deed my guess is they are patsies. Low level thugs hired to do something, no questions asked. They probably didn't know who they were working for or what they were carrying around.
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