Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby American Dream » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:12 pm

I Think My Friend Is a Jordan Peterson Fan. What Should I Do?

By Liza Featherstone JUNE 7, 2018

Dear Liza,
I fell into an instant and deep connection with a man while on a work trip. I’m happily married, so there’s no chance of a romantic future, but the friendship has been, and is, enlivening. We share many interests, but mostly we have an easy understanding—something slow and patient and unusual in this world. We occasionally talk on the phone about life, and we’re looking forward to having lunch when our paths cross again next month.

However, in the gaps between conversations, I’ve come to realize that he might be a fan of Jordan Peterson. He hasn’t mentioned his name, but there have been significant clues. More alarmingly, he has betrayed a thin-skinnedness around sensitive topics like #MeToo and transgender issues. He’s said nothing that’s outright offensive—maybe because I’ve made my politics clear. But if I ask directly, and he responds affirmatively that he is a fan of Peterson, what should I do?

—Not a Fan of Social Darwinism


Dear Not a Fan,

Both of you are lucky. Not enough people make time for real conversation and friendship in adulthood. As well, too many people isolate themselves from anyone whose values or politics are at odds with their own, and when we do that, we get intellectually soft. Worse, we lose the empathy with our opponents that can be so crucial to persuasion.

That said, Not a Fan, I’m delighted you plan to keep your clothes on, not only because you’re happily married, but also because it would be advice-columnist malpractice to condone sex with a Jordan Peterson fan.


For those readers who have been dwelling in happy ignorance, Jordan Peterson is a Canadian psychologist, best-selling author, and wildly popular YouTube star promulgating backward and deeply unoriginal biological determinism with certainty, zeal, and a lot of Jungian mumbo jumbo. Confronting Peterson’s repellent ideas, if you can do so without getting defensive or insulting, might actually help your friend think through some of these issues. There are a few things you can recommend that he check out, if you want to gently counter the propaganda. One is any book by Cordelia Fine, a psychologist who has been ruthlessly dissecting the banal discourse over “essential” differences between the sexes for years. Another is a wonderful video called “Jordan Peterson: ContraPoints,” by the transfemme YouTube star Natalie Wynn, who does a fabulous job of acknowledging the value of Peterson’s self-help advice—you wouldn’t be reading this if no one needed advice!—while exposing his far-right political agenda.

What’s more important than refuting Peterson empirically, says Harrison Fluss, a political theorist who has studied the alt-right extensively, is understanding that he’s an “ideologue” and that you should therefore engage in “philosophical battle.” Peterson, Fluss tells me, has a “disdain for mass society, which he thinks is making us weak, effeminate.” Faced with the growing popularity of socialist and social-democratic ideas, Peterson constantly raises the specter of the gulag. Stalinist dictatorship, to him, is always just around the corner. “It’s a really scary dog whistle,” Fluss says. In that context, if you want to convince your friend not to be a Peterson fan, it’s probably more important to persuade him of the merits of your own progressive ideology than of the specific wrongness of Peterson’s many claims.

If your friend is indeed a Peterson admirer, I also wonder if he might be depressed and lonely. Even more than rage, transphobia, or misogyny, the affect most palpable in Peterson’s public appearances is melancholy. He cries a lot, and the anger he expresses is of a brittle, depressive sort. I wonder to what extent his appeal lies in giving expression to (as well as providing narratives to explain) male sorrow. He also offers sad men empathy, a warm respite from the cold shoulder everyone gets from neoliberalism (and many men imagine they are getting from women and feminism). So you may, outside the context of a political discussion, want to suggest that your friend seek treatment for depression, or at least spend less time on YouTube, which can be a cesspool of self-reinforcing masculine ailments and symptoms.


https://www.thenation.com/article/think ... n-fan-can/




.
Last edited by American Dream on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Sounder » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:59 pm

I have been looking for good material from this thread to use for disabusing a friend from his fondness toward Peterson. Turns out that was no problem as he already was turned off by Jordan’s recent ‘work’, and my own words worked fine. Like I mentioned up thread, (said to my friend) Jordan seems to be part of a tradition of suppressing creativity, what was called ‘enthusiasm’ in the old days or a felt connection to source or the goddess. He does this when he pairs the feminine with chaos, rather than non-pejorative and more accurate terms such as spontaneity or even liberty. This was the one of the first realizations of the power elite, they could remain in power as long as people did not learn how to cultivate and maintain an appropriate connection to source. Followed by verbiage about how we don’t learn because we crave social validation and therefore have collectively agreed to ignore the fact that we operate under a split model of reality, where manipulative people have the advantage.

Several other critique points were also touched on, again no problem, so in this case at least the Peterson fan was a lot less scary or difficult than other cult touched people I have run across in the past.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby guruilla » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:59 pm

Sounder » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:59 pm wrote:I have been looking for good material from this thread to use for disabusing a friend from his fondness toward Peterson. Turns out that was no problem as he already was turned off by Jordan’s recent ‘work’, and my own words worked fine. Like I mentioned up thread, (said to my friend) Jordan seems to be part of a tradition of suppressing creativity, what was called ‘enthusiasm’ in the old days or a felt connection to source or the goddess. He does this when he pairs the feminine with chaos, rather than non-pejorative and more accurate terms such as spontaneity or even liberty. This was the one of the first realizations of the power elite, they could remain in power as long as people did not learn how to cultivate and maintain an appropriate connection to source. Followed by verbiage about how we don’t learn because we crave social validation and therefore have collectively agreed to ignore the fact that we operate under a split model of reality, where manipulative people have the advantage.

Several other critique points were also touched on, again no problem, so in this case at least the Peterson fan was a lot less scary or difficult than other cult touched people I have run across in the past.

Sounds like you lucked out, i.e., your timing was good; I wonder if he is representative of a larger dis-illusionment?

Did he give any specifics about what was turning him off?
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:11 pm

Glad to see this turn.

Mass disillusionment will be no surprise, these hysterias have a life-cycle. What prompted it, why people go for such nonsense and poisoned bilge in the first place is more the question.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Sounder » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:22 pm

Guruilla wrote...
Sounds like you lucked out, i.e., your timing was good; I wonder if he is representative of a larger dis-illusionment?

Did he give any specifics about what was turning him off?


I tend to think that pretty much everyone is (desperately) searching for the great formula to make their life work, most grasp at possible answers, see the holes and adapt and accept or move on. My friend says that Peterson appealed to him because he talks about balancing personal freedom with personal responsibility. Lately though he sees and thinks that Peterson is baiting his opponents, which he says contrary to earlier rhetoric. Here I mentioned Peterson's habit of jumping all around while treating things that have not been properly substantiated as if they have been. He agreed.

Jack wrote...
Glad to see this turn.

Mass disillusionment will be no surprise, these hysterias have a life-cycle. What prompted it, why people go for such nonsense and poisoned bilge in the first place is more the question.


I try to not be judgmental given the many varieties of poisoned bilge. As the church billboard admonishes, Don't judge someone just because they sin differently different than you do.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby guruilla » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:24 am

It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby guruilla » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:48 am

also this



"the data on that is crystal clear." That's the JBP mantra.

So why does the audience laugh at the end, when he insists that there is no help for the moron class? It sounds like the laugh track out of Natural Born Killers.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Jerky » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:56 am

guruilla » 23 Jun 2018 15:48 wrote:also this

"the data on that is crystal clear." That's the JBP mantra.

So why does the audience laugh at the end, when he insists that there is no help for the moron class? It sounds like the laugh track out of Natural Born Killers.


Excellent analogy.

You truly have to wonder whether Peterson even begins to understand the dangers inherent in the places where he's allowed his demons to drag him, policy-wise...

J.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Heaven Swan » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:34 am




Peterson isn’t updated on research. Sociopaths and psychopaths are on the far end of the narcissism spectrum. Psychopaths may be rarer but pathological narcissists are a dime a dozen. Their personality disorder is like a mask that filters everything about them but it lies on top of their underlying personality, intelligence, artistic talent, etc, and they come from whatever family and social class they were born into. In this video JPB is basically defending his own success and claiming that the rotten and corrupt hierarchies we see all around us are self-regulating healthy organisms.

As a side note...In complex societies such as ours, hierarchies may be inevitable, the toxic element is the authoritarianism nested in them.

Pathological narcissists, and wrt politics, a certain type of narcissist known as the ‘communal narcissist” literally flock to organizations in order to get their need for narcissistic supply (energy and attention from others) met. And some can be seemingly brilliant and well-read. Some even behave quite well in the organization and save their abuse for their spouse and family members. Even so, chances are that eventually they will turn things around to benefit themselves over the organization since they are Machiavellian at heart.
"When IT reigns, I’m poor.” Mario
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Heaven Swan » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:02 am

Interesting perspective on Tumblr, Jordan Peterson and why SJW's are taking a wrecking ball to the left. I don't waste my time on Tumblr but a lot of what she says rings true to me. I can see the same strange behaviors by liberal feminists, but their motive is clear (sucking up to men). This blogger sheds light on the strange behavior and motivations of a large contingent of SJW's.
(more images at link)

Image


How TUMBLR brought us Trump

https://daisysdeadair.blogspot.com/2018 ... trump.html

My 5 years on tumblr was so bad, I can only compare it to a marriage or neighborhood you just keep waiting to get better. And it doesn't. And genuine panic finally sets in.

But, everybody said this was the good neighborhood! Everybody SAID this guy was an okay fella! WTF is going on??? (((panic)))

I'd quote some stuff, but that would mean going back over there and actually reading, and I can no longer bear to do that.

Suffice to say, the tumblr brats have explained the entire election to me. It is no longer a puzzle.

The man of the hour, Toronto-professor-in-exile Jordan Peterson, would say the SJWs ("social justice warriors") are totally running the joint, and he is indeed correct about that. But as I shall prove, these SJWs are actually anti-social justice elitists, which is why they failed so spectacularly in 2016, and how we ended up with the opposite party in charge.

This is the direct result of their true class agenda at work.

Peterson's error is in taking these people at face value, just like a Protestant would: they say they believe in social justice, so they do.

NOOOOO, professor Peterson, they don't. What you are seeing is affectation, fashion, mere posturing. They would not know "social justice" if it ran over them in a jeep.

Its exactly like Christianity in the American 1950s: good people are Christian--and I am good--so I must be a Christian. Period. So everybody was a Christian and if you said you were not, you must be a criminal or a communist. Not a lot of self-reflection involved.

This is the thought process.

~*~

WHAT IS TO BE DONE

The tumblr ppl are not concerned with the actual vocation of social justice and Lenin's famous question, What is to be done? They aren't in it for that. When I repeatedly tried to asked them brainstorming questions about what we might do, it was seen as picking a fight.

How does asking for opinions = picking a fight? Took me a long time to figure out.

If you are lazy and ineffectual, every question about actual ACTION (root word of activist) sounds like a reproach instead of a question; an entreaty for you to get off your ass. They have no intention of getting off their asses, so any discussion I attempted about that, got me labeled a troublemaker who picks fights. An instigator. Really.

"Social justice" is about their own wonderfulness and their own egos. Social justice is the new, fun theater to act out the drama of their suburban, highly-educated, carefully-curated "identities" (which change on a dime every few months, humorously enough). They are pointedly not about doing anything to actually help anyone else ... since by now its plainly obvious they are hurting and not helping.

~*~

Tumblr Social Justice = berating old hillbilly grannies from the "trailer park", frequently, loudly and often

(After all, who did you think the real enemy WAS?)

The so-called social justice environment on tumblr is the most hostile online environment I have EVER been in; even worse than arguing with white supremacists and nazis. They are far more insulting than MRAs and religious fundamentalists have ever been to me. (they also can't argue as well as any of these people, disturbingly enough)

This is what 46 years of activism and being a feminist pioneer gets you on tumblr: They are filled with utter contempt for all old people and tell us we "shouldn't be on tumblr" (!) as if they own it. I assume I was regularly called trailer trash since I was foolish enough to talk about my impoverished childhood. Big, big mistake.

Image

I would warn others who were raised in poor environments to NEVER EVER discuss that on tumblr. They are fiercely classist--possibly the most fiercely and proudly classist group online anywhere--and openly despise poor people. They will NEVER let you forget this for a minute. If you ever try to discuss books or ideas after admitting you were poor, its "thats pretty good for the trailer park!" or "I didn't know hillbillies read books!" and other such viciousness.

Oddly, this is behavior the Republicans/right-wing have become too sensitive and aware to freely exhibit. They want white working class votes and sympathies. Meanwhile, crossover reality-TV star/pornographer Zinnia Jones (her online insanity even got her a job on the TLC network!) enthusiastically preaches the new social-justice gospel to her thousands of adoring fans: "Fuck the white working class!" and they all swoon collectively like teenyboppers.

Image

You see, because they are "social justice" they can be as elitist as they wanna be, and those comments somehow don't mean the same thing as if they were political policy. They don't think there is any connection between their contempt for poor old working class trailer-trash white women and taking away their/our Social Security... and if there is, they don't care. They proudly believe that old, poor (etc) people are a blight, just like Forbes magazine, National Review and the Republicans have taught them.

But here is the crucial difference between them and Republicans:

They are doing all of this in the name of social justice, so its okay.

Remember that one? Mass genocide for the cause of social justice is acceptable.

And where have we heard that before?

Image

*Yes I suppose I should enter a caution or "trigger warning" (spits for emphasis) about the satirical use of the n-word in the DK song linked above ... I once interviewed East Bay Ray about that whole business a long time ago, but I digress.

~*~

Similarly, because they are "feminists", they can call me "ugly old hag" and it "isn't sexist".

In case you didn't know, nasty sexism in the name of getting rid of sexism is okay too. (Where is our modern equivalent of Clara Zetkin, pictured at left, to argue this case when we need her?)

Image

Interestingly, they don't see overt ageism as "ableist" at all (meaning they are wholly-unfamiliar with disability rights-theory), even though they obsess over "ableism" fairly constantly and a huge number claim to be autistic and have a variety of mental illnesses, far out of proportion to what the numbers could logically be. They talk about disabilities like status symbols, which means they are mostly invented.

I wish I was making all of this up. But I assure you, it is far worse than you can imagine.

I wish this was not "leftist" kids I am talking about--but every single example I am giving you here is from someone who calls themselves social justice and progressive. Every single example I am giving here are behaviors from people who claim to be on the Left, who tell people like me to go back to the trailer park. "Go back to redneck-land, grandma."... and then they are back politically-policing the language of others in 5 minutes or less. Really.

~*~

In summation -- tl; dr

They don't believe a single word they say.

There is no social justice on tumblr, since there are no social justice activists.

Question: Is this deliberate deception and subterfuge (right wing hijinx), or are they also deceiving themselves?

How can one claim to believe in equality, equity, ending oppression and all the rest of it and then gleefully tell people to go back to the trailer park, in the next breath?

It is astounding to me because I have never encountered such a thing before.

Probably because a real-life leftist collective would run such a person out on a rail immediately and/or call them a cop... while this is standard behavior over on lefty-tumblr.

THIS. IS. STANDARD.

~*~
Image
Professor Peterson--one reason they hate you is that you are from Alberta and talk like Gary Cooper. You are a farmer, dude, go back where you came from. Intellectuals do not come from OUR class of people, only THEIR class of people. Of course they will help the government shout you down--they don't even believe people like you and me should be allowed to speak in the first place.

I know this for certain, since "social justice" kids have been telling me this for 5 years. My 46 years of activism means absolutely nothing to them, and they have told me that too.

I believe them.

Go back to your sacred Orwell, professor, specifically one Mr Emmanuel Goldstein, who knew what was up:

THEY intend to be the elites.

And they are telling us exactly what their regime will be like.


~*~

"Left-Wing" Communism: An Infantile Disorder

I was run off tumblr by the new elites, college-educated, pampered children still compulsively playing with toys ("electronic devices") into adulthood. Their knowledge of human nature, history and themselves, could fit into a thimble. Working class/minority teens in my neighborhood are light years more savvy than these kids--which is why I was initially confused by them, since their levels of education are staggering. Very smart kids who know everything but... with absolutely no life experience; a languid lifestyle not permitted to poor and working class kids forced to get jobs when still in middle school. Brilliantly-shaped minds with nowhere to land, reminding me of that old expression, all dressed up with no place to go.

Because they are so highly educated, I can't quite believe they don't know what they are doing.


After all, I told them, Peterson tells them, everybody who is sane tells them, but ... the viciousness just intensifies. It is therefore deliberate.

This dizzying-juxtaposition of traditional right wing class-hatred with all the trendy leftist PC-speak, is very disorienting, which I think is the major reason they do it.

They say they are our enemies, and we should believe them.

~*~

Bread and Circuses

It seems that 'personal problems' like fat and depression are sacrosanct to them, but not actual top-down oppression like economic status. This is an excellent way to keep them occupied (along with the omnipresent devices), and I have to give it to the capitalists--they have certainly neutralized any would-be young insurgents. Its like they all have huge electronic pacifiers in their mouths.

Image

If the tumblr leftist language/assertions are actually fashion statements (like where to vacation or what new restaurant the foodies have discovered), it means they have little to do with reality. Ephemeral, they will pass, as fashion does.

This means these kids will eventually move on to the next vacation-destination and the next restaurant as this social justice fad wanes; they will get married and move to a different all-white suburb than the one they were raised in, and live exactly (with the same biases and prejudices) as their parents. In short, there is no there there.

But first, they have wrecked the discourse and elected Trump, and I am not about to let them off the hook for that. And you shouldn't either.

They have made a dangerous fascist cartoon of the Left that nobody in their right mind would elect or vote for... in fact, I find that *I* am also terrified of their new Gulag-Left and I have been around doing this since 1972... but I want nothing to do with their Stalinist viciousness.

Of course, the rest of the electorate feels exactly the same.

~*~

Jordan Peterson has recently become a shepherd for one faction of disgruntled young folks who are tired of this poisonous PC bullshit. Who will herd the others?

Rather, who HAS herded them already?

Image


I originally believed (when I reluctantly climbed onto the tumblr-train in 2013, after the folding of Occupy) the tumblr bloggers were basically just like working class kids (my own, or those I have worked with). This proved not to be the case in "political" tumblr circles, but is probably true in the fandom-circles. I quickly realized who I was dealing with from their casual references to pricey vacation spots, schools, neighborhoods, clothing and the like. They constantly drop insider-lingo like "post-structuralism" (almost everything is, it seems) and other bourgeois pretentious BS. If you don't know this stuff, they will actually say you are not a leftist and could never have been; you can't be a leftist if you don't know Derrida, Foucault, Judith Butler and similar postmodern thinkers who have nothing to do with Marx and Trotsky and class war.

So, here is what I learned from tumblr: You can't be a leftist now if you are too poor to have had a good education and can't quote Foucault.

Since this IS what a leftist is, I can't possibly be one, so all my questions about these things can be ignored since I am a stalker and troll. Etc.

~*~

Left: Jonathan Haidt, who has successfully convinced me that this is a new religion we are dealing with, which accounts for their entire take-no-prisoners/Crusades psychology. If you disagree with their view of themselves, whatever it is, this is not mere disagreement but "invalidating their existence"! (Never mind your existence, yours doesn't count.)

Image

Jonathan Haidt's videos talk about how these kids likely come from older parents, successful educated professionals who waited for the 'right time' to have children, and then only had 1 or 2. They have been fussed at, prodded and poked their whole lives. Their annoying helicopter-parents have overprotected and spoiled them, which is why they are now afraid to leave the basement or bedroom and spend their entire days in an angry, repressed fury, patrolling the web for latent political incorrectness and landing on the unsuspecting in a manner not unlike Al-Qaeda. This is a very twisted version of a stunted-childhood, sitting in borderline-sociopathic fury, easily-controlled by the governments and elites... all while thinking they are revolutionary as all hell.

By contrast, I remember worrying I was never radical enough, never doing enough, something I still worry about, and the activists around me constantly worry about. This is the proletarian sensibility vs the elite sensibility, that theorists like Frantz Fanon and Antonio Gramsci (not Judith Butler) wrote about.

It is as if they are deliberately trying to make the mistakes of the past. Possibly since they don't even know what happened the last time their sorry attempts at human-perfection failed. (go back to the song right above the Pol Pot photo)

~*~

WHAT IS TO BE UNDONE

This state of affairs, a "Left wing" that is actively and unapologetically doing the work of the Right, is the most tragic thing I have ever witnessed.

I have repeatedly tried to stir the would-be leftist mob on tumblr to do something, anything.

Their deposits of viciousness and cruelty are bottomless, and wouldn't it be nice to point it at the opposition instead of each other?

I have asked approximately 1000 times: When is the last time you said ______ (insert vicious, ageist, sexist, anti-poor trailer park insult of the day) to a right winger or Trump-supporter on tumblr? (And there ARE plenty, many are there precisely to aggravate/bait the legendary tumblr-SJWs.) I ask, do you say these things to MRAs and racists? (Aside: I've noticed lots of antisemites on tumblr, far more than simple racists.) Why not? I have never been answered.

The reason of course is that its no fun to shame racists for racism or right wingers for being right wing--they are proud of it. Where's the fun in that?

This phenomenon proves their behaviors and attacks are NOT about politics, but about their own narcissistic nastiness.

~*~

I am reminded that tumblr is a self-selected group, which of course goes without saying. So is Reddit, and the joke is that tumblr is composed of 12-year-old communists, while Reddit is all 20-year-old nazis. I went to tumblr in hope that I could connect my generation of activists to the younger one... then I finally realized that absolutely none of these people are activists.

Actual activists are respectful of older activists and hope to learn from them, as I always was, and as the young activists I know IRL are.

What is especially alarming is the fact that the social justice warriors are now defending patriarchal, racist, imperialist (etc etc etc) governments. You think I jest. Nope. I couldn't believe it myself... and when I fully digested this fact I started hyperventilating.

Opiate of the Masses

Bill C-16 in Canada is a civil-rights law proclaiming that all "pronouns" must be respected and used on demand--even the goofy ones like Xir and Xee, as well as a plethora of confusing and nonsensical words that can easily sew confusion/be taken as insulting in non-English-speaking neighborhoods (once again illustrating that these SJWs don't actually care about non-whites).

Thus, this is the law in Canada, which Peterson said he would not recognize. And the SJWs came after him for daring to dissent.

Thus, when the kids demonstrated against Peterson, in favor of the law... they were (shivers) demonstrating IN FAVOR OF THE GOVERNMENT.

IN FAVOR OF THE GOVERNMENT. Again I repeat: demonstrating IN FAVOR OF THE GOVERNMENT. Silencing a professor who is criticizing government, and demonstrating IN FAVOR OF THE GOVERNMENT.

You know, those meanie imperialist governments? With armies and stuff? The ones who occupied Native lands and arrest people of color and so on and so forth? The Boogeyman?

Demonstrating IN FAVOR of their government against Peterson.

They think they are radical, but they are demonstrating in favor of the status quo, against one who is criticizing it. (!!)

Once I realized this--I was literally terrified and I realized Trump would win.

Keep in mind: the class of kids on tumblr is from the class that will benefit under Trump--and this is why they will not heed warnings or join with older activists to get rid of him: secretly, mommy and daddy like him and are getting capital gains tax cuts. That benefits them--and perhaps their motives are actually that base and transparent.

When I did health care posts (hundreds, at one point, in a blind panic, feverishly trying to save lives), not a single one of the 965 people who were then following me, reblogged those. Health care is boring unless you can talk about how ableism hurts depressed people, and then its all about Rxs. I never saw any posts about the battle for Obamacare, unless from mainstream orgs like Politico or AlterNet, etc.

This tell us the tumblrites already have their insurance, so fuck the poor.

And I started noticing the agenda. The tumblr agenda is basically pro-Trump.

~*~

If the circular firing squad ever breaks up, they could make a difference. But as long as the Left attacks the Left, as tumblr's entire purpose appears to be, it is a pro-Trump social media platform, which is why I will not return.

It is not enough to keep Trump in office; the tumblrites intend to destroy the Left in the process.

The Left, they have decided, is all shit (as are those of us who have kept it going all this time, needless to say) which is why they attack other leftists and deliberately inhibit all conversation about leftist strategies.

After all, they already have excellent health care and education. What they really need is a capital gains tax cut.

https://daisysdeadair.blogspot.com/2018 ... trump.html
"When IT reigns, I’m poor.” Mario
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:35 pm

The so-called social justice environment on tumblr is the most hostile online environment I have EVER been in; even worse than arguing with white supremacists and nazis. They are far more insulting than MRAs and religious fundamentalists have ever been to me. (they also can't argue as well as any of these people, disturbingly enough)


This person needs to get the fuck off Internet and especially Tumblr and go outside and meet some of these people she imagines she knows and she imagines are representative of real-world groups or movements and start figuring out that whoever is harassing her on Tumblr probably does not correspond all that well to whomever she thinks she is describing in real world. She should meet some Nazis and compare the "hostility" firsthand. It is a ludicrous piece and despite a tad of the distancing from Peterson it's basically his whole schtick, including the bit about the imaginary "SJW" movement about to round up her poor fragile white ass and exterminate her in Maoist camps! But wait, here's a tweet by some entirely random ass person no one else knows (and who is probably being taken out of context) that can be misused to show the truth of everything she has to say about "SJWs" and by extension "the left," Democrats, Clinton voters, whatever: they're all terrible people, no exceptions, virtue-signaling elites, just like Trump and Peterson would say. Hooray!

And then there is the bit about the by-her imagined "SJWs" losing the 2016 election. This too is very far removed from the real world. 110 million people (who for some crazy reason went as a plurality into the Clinton column, and against Trump) know why they voted and whatever harassment she's gotten on Tumblr or whatever she thinks it represents in the real world, it was even less decisive a factor than the Russian FB ads! SJW is a meaningless term outside an Internet bubble of right-wingers who think the guillotines are running full-time at Yale and those who engage with them online. SJW had nothing to do with the 2016 election result, zero, it is a category applied after the fact by punditry to explain why a largely imaginary working class in Michigan voted for Trump. (The working class plurality in Michigan, to be clear, voted for NOBODY. It's time to admit this and stop spinning, spinning, spinning the bullshit!)

Basically this person is allowing herself to get worked up about her imaginary "SJWs" (or a group of Internet personae she imagines as "SJWs") as a means for excusing her superficial shift from left to reactionary, which is where I'm guessing she always was. And it's okay, she can be as wrong as she likes, it's the distortion that annoys. Taking use of this term "SJW" from the right-wing lexicon, as if it corresponds to a large real-world group who actually self-identify by it or fit the insane criteria by which basically right-wing people define it, as an instant discrediting factor. Whatever!!!

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Elvis » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:14 pm

daisysdeadair wrote:When I did health care posts (hundreds, at one point, in a blind panic, feverishly trying to save lives), not a single one of the 965 people who were then following me, reblogged those.


I'd guess that the blogger's tone and style (and maybe sheer volume) went a long way toward alienating her Tumblr critics (who are probably infiltrated anyway).
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Heaven Swan » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:46 pm

I’m surprised at your reaction to that blog post, Jack, especially since you live in NYC. Are you really saying that you haven”t met entitled trust fund SJW types IRL?

I’ve certainly encountered their asses, among liberal feminists at elite universities, super-privileged youngish women with family money and advanced degrees who would never in a million years need to consider selling their bodies claiming that “sex work” is empowering and sex trafficking is unimportant and irrelevant.

I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around what motivates their “activism,” but it seems to have something to do with being cool, trendy and projecting an image of rebelliousness that they believe will be enticing to certain men of their milleu and class.

I don’t agree with all that this blogger says and still don’t like Peterson but I find her original take on things informative and refreshing so I’ll post a link to another one of her posts on the Gender Identity thread.

BTW Zinnia Jones is a transactivist well-known by most feminists who follow the trans issue.
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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:56 pm

Heaven Swan » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:46 pm wrote:I’m surprised at your reaction to that blog post, Jack, especially since you live in NYC. Are you really saying that you haven”t met entitled trust fund SJW types IRL?


I'm saying:

1. The confusionist label "SJW" may have been adopted by one or two idiots at some point (nothing compared to "truther" by the way) but belongs firmly in the right-wing dictionary of slurs and is deployed broadly, not just to slur any given target but to create a wholly false characterization of the entire world to the left of Alex Jones. If this writer is too dumb to recognize that, too bad for her.

2. Have I met people who fit this description? Sure. None of them were Maoists. None of them were particularly leftist. None of them were preparing gulags for this writer or anyone else. None of them could conceivably be more hostile than Nazis (of whom I've also encountered a couple) in any environment other than maybe Tumblr while trolling this writer. Off Tumblr, she should try meeting the Azov brigade as an educational exercise, and stop talking like Peterson or Alex Jones about the future concentration camps of the snowflakes. (Don't they get the damn contradiction in these two images of "the left"?)

3. So one doesn't have to like or defend a group to expect that they not be subject to absurd defamations that basically do the work for Trumpland.

4. A tweet or a thousand by one Zinnia Jones is a pretty thin thread to hang the outrageous generalizations about "SJWs" (by which the writer means the left tout court).

5. Meanwhile there's a real fucking struggle for social justice going on, for me exemplified this month by Ocasio and the immigration protesters, and this kind of stuff whining about an exaggerated or imagined SJW left is distraction from or (sometimes) actively hostile to that.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Jordan Peterson with Russell Brand & Ian McGilchrist

Postby Elvis » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:36 pm

Just an anecdote, an open question and some ramblings:

A hostess greets arriving dinner party guests and hears a (legitimate) criticism of Obama. She says, sternly,

"I will not have any Obama-bashing in this house."

Based on that, is she a "SJW"?

Until recently I assumed that "SJWs" were more like the stereotypical(?) dreadlocked neo-hippie 'peace warriors' with knitted tams, badly scrawled protest signs and so on. But as Jack says, "SJW" seems to be an all-purpose epithet.

Also, it's another inversion of language; who would be against social justice? Doesn't everybody want justice? Of course, but more and more people are acquiring a weird sense of justice that makes justice a bad thing.

I've never joined any of these groups or blog forums except this place (which is too diverse to really count) so I'm piecing this together as an outsider. At Occupy Seattle, I didn't know anyone. The organizers seemed paranoid when I stopped in and said hi (was it my tweed sport jacket?) and the leaders seemed a little bossy, and a couple of rather obvious shill protesters hinting at violence (for the news cameras) but overall a friendly gathering. So there I was, on the curb in a full-on "V" costume, holding the biggest sign ("boycott banks"), posing cooperatively for news cameramen. I didn't know it then but I guess I was "SJW"?

Jordan Peterson, yeah, interesting guy and he can make me think about some things in new ways, which is good, but I'm increasingly in the "Oh, STFU" camp. However, some of the "criticisms" are stretched a bit thin, e.g. the geographic slur of 'unsophisticated farm boy' is a bit ridiculous.

That's the thing with me about this: judging from this and other threads, I think a lot of writers spend way too much time worrying and writing about Peterson, and they end up cranking out thin gruel.

That said, I don't mean to disparage this discussion, it's good.


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