The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

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Re: The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

Postby Sounder » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:15 pm

HeavenSwan wrote…
Really insightful article about recent history and how the left veered off the rails after Occupy Wall Street (which I was active in). Since then, class has been buried and lost in the shuffle and identity politics have increasingly devolved into a 'divide and conquer' tool that fuels toxic infighting.

Agreed, and thanks HeavenSwan.

Cynics rule number one; all good things are primary targets for corruption. The best protection for the elites is to use their juice to convince the public that all types of poor people are the problem. So then, whoever is finding villains among the small-fry is unconsciously or consciously running interference for the elites.


Turn on any mainstream news outlet and you will hear a clear and consistent narrative of a country polarized along racial and gender lines, but almost no mention of the role of class. Instead, the very wealthy 1% in the media, academia, and government (all fields dominated by members of the upper class) are also the most eager to embrace this new version of social justice.

Best-selling author Nassim Taleb has written in a similar vein about what he calls the “Intellectual Yet Idiot.” These idiot intellectuals are the 1% in the media, academia, and government who advocate for policies that may adversely affect the rest of the country, and do so from a position of comfort and privilege and without having to worry about the consequences. On issues like international trade agreements or immigration policies or crime and discord in urban communities, these modern-day aristocrats have “no skin in the game.” Instead they are happy to denigrate the lower classes as ignorant buffoons—the “basket of deplorables” to which Hillary Clinton infamously referred.

In this way, the 1% has found a very effective strategy to maintain and reinforce its privilege. Intersectional privileges, while important, are secondary to class privilege but they drum up enough internal division to distract from the original goals of the social justice movement. In this way, the 1% is no longer the enemy; they are the friends and benefactors of all downtrodden people around the world. The enemy is other poor and disenfranchised people.




The bolded part is not right in that the folk mentioned are often only of the top ten percent. Still they depend on their strong support for the dominant and socially correct narrative to maintain their lifestyle.

The 1% get maintenance assistance from folk that swear up and down that they support the broad community rather than the rich. Hell, I must fall into the trap also now and again.

Anyway, I worry more about the 10%, them being the 'voice' of the 1%.

As 82-28 is wont to say; the Roman Empire never ended.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

Postby 82_28 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:51 pm

As 82-28 is wont to say; the Roman Empire never ended.


The attribution does not go to me. It goes to a certain person with the last name of Dick. Though, yes, it was a favorite "theme" in my writing, posting and commenting at a point in time. Still is. I just don't include it as much. "LOL".
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

Postby Heaven Swan » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:45 am

Yea, good point Sounder :tiphat:





I’m glad this guy is trying to bring some grounded common sense into the mix.
"Bow to your oppressor and you will be destroyed. Dare to fight and you will liberate the world."
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Re: The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

Postby Sounder » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:58 am

I was hoping someone else would comment, oh well.

I am on board with Bret Weinstein all the way, thanks HeavenSwan.

If one accepts a position of fundamental ignorance in regard to Reality, they are obliged to create a system of improvement to cope with and lessen the negative effects of ignorance.

When observing all experience it may be noted that elements of order and change are both present. Their balance or lack thereof seems to define or influence outcomes in positive and negative ways.

I determined long ago that a good way to improve personal reactive habits was and is to aspire toward balance.

Order is needed to provide time for new understandings to become internalized and change is needed to provide still more new understanding.

These two elements 'could' be designed to act synergistic-ally, yet in today's world the only synergy to be found is among various stripes of warmongers. (Sorry for that last bit but I watched Moscow on the Hudson last night.)
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Re: The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

Postby Heaven Swan » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:57 pm

Thanks Sounder.

Yea, I loved that Weinstein filmed the video with that mountain in the background. (Mt Ranier?)

I think the Pacific Northwest may be the epicenter and birthplace of the trend towards extreme identity politics and mob shout-down censorship of the liberal flavor. Whenever I talk to people over there it seems like they're living in a different universe. Posters from that neck of the woods may know more or have an opinion on this...

Also interesting is what he says at the beginning, that there is no real line of distinction between Liberals, Leftists and Progressives. I can agree with that. Where I do see a distinction is between the "establishment left" and what some call the "autonomous left." If things change (like a Presidential ticket of Bernie/Ocasio Cortez) I might change, but I lost interest activism-wise a long time ago in the establishment left both in the US and my home country.

I'm much more excited by autonomous movements like feminism and others like Occupy Wall Street, i.e.before the far left veered off the rails.
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Re: The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

Postby peartreed » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:18 pm

I suspect the Pacific Northwest is attractive to extremists on both ends of the political spectrum because it is one of the last remaining outposts of escape into natural, primitive beauty, where the artificial ruling establishment, institutions and structures are slightly less visible and pervasive in everyday existence. It appeals to our jungle instinct of a return to a natural freedom, tribal identity and survival of the fittest. The wilderness has always had an instinctual call to our inner native.

Stereotypical conservative fanatics are fiercely independent and their liberal counterparts are more communal or interdependent in social organization, but they share an anti-establishment desire to return to the basics of a pure, much simpler self-rule society. Both theoretical extremists resent organized imposition of rules.

Yet both extremes also align with their tribe, those who share their social vision. Both put pressure on the middle arena of compromised collective capitalism where consensus has evolved an imperfect system of tentative mutual tolerance to prevail. Both resist the democratic process of majority rule by elected representational government because it, by definition, dilutes the extremes at the opposing poles.

The most recent threat to the mainstream balance is the election of an extremist to the highest office, a totalitarian ruler from the right who needs self-aggrandizement and adulation from the electorate without any opposition to his unilateral rule. He has built his own empire on capitalist exploitation and identifies with dictators. He has no regard for the preservation of nature, wilderness, ecology nor basic human rights. He is the epitome of artificiality, from personal hair and makeup to living his own lies. And he rules with the techniques he acquired in real estate, entertainment and marketing manipulation of the masses. All of which are equally unnatural skills.

The test will come down to how much of his kingdom rule will we natives tolerate.
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Re: The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

Postby American Dream » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:45 pm

Yeah, the parts towards the ocean have a good portion of liberal, progressive and/or radical leftists. On race and culture they are affected by the fact that many indigenous folks are on the rez, many Latin in farm work enclaves, black numbers are low, etc. Queer cultures and feminist cultures definitely do exist, etc.

That said, I don't know that this area has any more proclivity for sharp privilege politics than other places where liberal/lefty people are found.
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Re: The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

Postby 82_28 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:23 pm

Seattle would have a thing or two to say about that.



All uniqueness is being wrung out of this city. But I guess that makes it "unique"! But when I moved here it was to be close to openness, literary/artistic firebrands, oddness, acceptance of basically everything any old left wing person wanted to be around. Yes, there are other places out here. I went to Portland last weekend. Um, sorry if this offends anyone, but that city is "psychotic" and no longer "weird". I identified so many mental health issues basically everywhere I went and I think it influences the "normal" people there as well into how they must interact with society at large. The Seattle I knew and also like to study, is in fact mostly gone. It's becoming more and more "normal" every passing day. Just a fucking crowded as hell city.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

Postby American Dream » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:04 pm

Yeah, my perspective was informed by smaller/freakier Cascadia, though I do consider Portland and Seattle to be also pretty white, and becoming more corporately weird, for sure.
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Gustavo Petro—The politics of life vs the politics of death

Postby Heaven Swan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:55 pm

Thanks for the observations about the Pacific Northwest. I have a hard time understanding the culture. Maybe it’s a bit like Canada?


Anyway here’s an interview with Gustavo Petro, who almost won the presidential election in Colombia.

https://www.democracynow.org/2018/8/10/ ... r_guerilla


And here is an excerpt from the transcript of the interview, where he says that Left vs Right politics are outdated. He talks of the politics of life vs the politics of death IOW the nature people vs. the robot war people.

Bolding mine

...
AMY GOODMAN: While you lost, Gustavo Petro, you also made history with eight million votes to Duque’s 10 million. You garnered more votes than any left politician in Colombian history. Can you talk about your vision for Colombia and why you think that vision did not succeed in ultimately winning?

GUSTAVO PETRO: [translated] I no longer divide politics into left and right. I think that was a relatively logical way and a relatively realistic way to describe politics in the 20th century, but today, politics is divided between the politics of life and the politics of death. Climate change worldwide separates us into two major sides. On the one hand, you have Trump, Maduro, Duque, and on the other side, you have those of us who want to respond and adapt as quickly as possible to climate change by bringing about changes in Colombian society and Colombian politics. It’s life or death.

What we were preaching in Colombia is that; we need to build the movement of life from the standpoint of respect for nature, from the standpoint of moving from an extractive-based coal exporting economy. We are the fifth leading coal exporter in the world. That is to say we have a lot of responsibility for climate change, and we want to move to a productive economy in agriculture and industry based on knowledge, so as to be able to live together with nature. We want to move to a zero carbon economy. These are the kinds of proposals that we put forward as the main agenda in our election campaign. That is what we want.

AMY GOODMAN: It’s very interesting that you put together Trump, Duque, and Maduro. Maduro of Venezuela. I wanted to go back to this issue of the assassination attempt. On Sunday, Bolivian president Evo Morales tweeted, “Within the last 12 months, US Vicepresident Mike Pence made 3 trips to Latin America to meet at least 8 presidents from whom he demanded support for military intervention against our brother president of Venezuela Nicolás Maduro. Those are the Empire’s coup attempts.” Do you feel the U.S. was involved in some way in what looks like an assassination attempt on Maduro’s life?

GUSTAVO PETRO: [translated] I reject any type of violence for resolving social conflicts in Latin America. I believe that we have experienced 30 years of revolutionary wars in Central America, in Colombia. I myself was a protagonist of that effort as a member of the M-19 movement, which laid down its weapons in 1989, and then it became a majority through popular vote and played a very important role in the 1991 Constitution of Colombia, a profoundly democratic Constitution.

We experienced years of military dictatorships, exile. The word “democracy” practically vanished from Latin America. It was really just at the beginning of the 21st century that a sort of spring began with progressive, popular electoral victories, and we began to see new paths emerging. We cannot go back to the past—the dictatorships that exist, for example, in Brazil, as I believe exist in Venezuela and a threat thereof, in Nicaragua and Honduras, a threat of this in Colombia, nor can we go back to the revolutionary wars trying to resolve conflicts through violence.

I think we need to preserve and persevere along the nonviolent paths in order to work out our own conflicts. That does not mean that there’s not a violent attack against Maduro. That doesn’t mean that there are not interests who would like to see Venezuelan society collapse. But the same interests who brought about the collapse of the society of Libya, Iraq, Syria—behind that there is a dark and dirty game all around oil interests and the world oil market. I know that the collapse of Venezuela would immediately mean the collapse of Colombia because millions of Colombians who in years past went into economic exile in Venezuela would come back. And as Pope Francis says, these kinds of exoduses just create new situations of slavery and violence.

I know that there is also a tough, hard-line, racist, xenophobic, imperialistic sector in U.S. society who, with their allies in Europe, believe they can dominate the world and accommodate the different visions of hundreds of human cultures into their exclusive way of thinking and acting, but I am totally convinced that it’s the peoples themselves who transform society.

The issue that I have raised of climate change—well, I propose to the Colombians and to Colombia that this should be the fundamental line of our international policy, and based on that, we should determine who are our allies and who are on the other side. Together in a single political party, speaking in general, global terms, someone like Maduro and someone like Trump are together because the progressive wave in Latin America that began in the early 20th century consolidated its role by greater income distribution, the genuine desire to reduce inequality in the most unequal region of the world based on the rents that were generated by the rise in international oil prices as well as coal and gas prices. It is an unsustainable way forward which is being shown in Venezuela, and the governments of Ecuador and Bolivia and in part Brazil followed that same path. I think that this has brought about a crisis, violating their own democratic principles. We see this in Venezuela and we now see it in Nicaragua.

A new progressivism is emerging. Graphically speaking, we could say there is a new axis between Mexico, Bogotá and São Paulo. Now an important force has won the presidency of Mexico. We almost did the same thing in Colombia with eight million votes and it may happen in Brazil if the current dictatorship there allows it. That new axis should propose for Latin America a new role in the international order. Reject being assigned, being mere exporters of raw materials, of fossil fuel raw materials. That alone would bring an end to Colombia. And we need to have a new role. Production based on knowledge. Production without carbon. A decarbonized production, and therefore, a new democracy. This is what we propose to the world.

And this new progressive axis would have very powerful allies, humankind itself, and would display its moral and political superiority, its superiority of arguments based on science. That I believe is what we are now building in Colombia and in Latin America. That is the way forward that we are going to be trying to insist on in coming months and coming years.
...
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Re: The Alt-Right, the Ctrl-Left, and the Esc-Center

Postby American Dream » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:02 pm

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