The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby Elvis » Mon May 06, 2019 6:52 pm

I think if you enter Congress with any idea of passing bold legislation against great odds, you will inevitably have to make deals. You will be asked to compromise. It can't be easy or always morally clear-cut. Think about it. We all make deals.
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby JackRiddler » Thu May 09, 2019 3:05 am

I resist any form of "realistic" compromise when it comes to imperialism, the highest crime. It's like negotiating with a tumor. Also, it's like murdering a stranger to settle a domestic dispute. AOC's public stance on this question has been pathetic and there will be no excuses from me unless she turns around and starts sounding like Omar. (If there is a contrast to AOC's bold and courageous statements on ecology and poverty, at least it means she can be bold and courageous part of the time, i.e., a thousand times more than the average politico.)

Anyway, she's not totally worthless here, she has at least signed on as a cosponsor to a hands-off Venezuela resolutio. Although it seems like it has zero chance of passage, has to my great surprise collected 70 sponsors in the House.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-con ... 4/all-info

Although if Schiff is one, how courageous can this be?

I suppose if actual US troops were involved, this could quickly get traction -- or more likely, be too late but late seen as having been a noble effort.

But what does it do against the CIA or parapolitics?

Supposedly there's a Senate version with Sanders' support, can't find.
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby Cordelia » Thu May 09, 2019 5:08 pm

RocketMan » Fri May 03, 2019 12:09 pm wrote:The appearance of that very slick looking Netflix documentary so soon is indeed a little suspicious.


I know I'm slow to catch up, but it appears AOC The Movie was in the works from before the get-go four short/long months ago.

Image

When I saw the photo above, the first thing that came to my mind was that AOC is dressed like an old-fashioned nurse (pre-Washington expensive power-wardrobe) Maybe she'll take good care of us. :shrug:


Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the Movie: D.C.'s Bomb-Throwing New Star Seizes the Sundance Spotlight


by Marisa Guthrie
January 23, 2019

As AOC confounds both the right and the left, the self-described socialist and tweet-shaming agitator takes center stage in the documentary 'Knock Down the House' and invites The Hollywood Reporter to catch a few episodes in the life of the one Democrat Trump hasn't dared attack: "Maybe he thinks that he's met his match."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6akmMYGHI3w

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featu ... on-1178063


In the teaser video above, it looks like she and Rachel Lears are both well trained (as are most media-savvy players on Capitol Hill) in using NLP hand manipulating gestures. The video also includes footage of AOC, I suspect, re-enacting tending a bar, but I still can't find anything original (or re-enacted) from her future-shaping road trip to Standing Rock, Flint, etc..........

fwiw.....NLP 'Psychogeography':


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBpBFv0LMoM

(Bartender, on the double, mix me a Brandy Alexandria - what, no such drink? Well make something up! )
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby RocketMan » Fri May 10, 2019 3:49 am

Wow Cordelia, thanks. You always draw interesting connections.

American culture at this point is so superficial, slick and professionally produced that it's difficult to divine whether AOC is just savvy and forward-looking to the extreme or if there are some grey eminences that have gotten a hold of her at a very early stage. We will continue monitoring the situation. :cofee:
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby stickdog99 » Fri May 10, 2019 11:33 am

RocketMan » 10 May 2019 07:49 wrote:Wow Cordelia, thanks. You always draw interesting connections.

American culture at this point is so superficial, slick and professionally produced that it's difficult to divine whether AOC is just savvy and forward-looking to the extreme or if there are some grey eminences that have gotten a hold of her at a very early stage. We will continue monitoring the situation. :cofee:


Well, I know a few political activists younger than me whose hearts are in the right place who are doing their best to awaken class consciousness with their next slickly produced photo shoot, video, or "killer ap". As good political cartoonists feel about their drawing, they think, "This is my best skill, and thus the best way for me to help."

I'm hoping that's the case with AOC's buddies, but ...
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby thrulookingglass » Fri May 10, 2019 7:37 pm

What is truly tragic is that when every single corporate media outlet works in lockstep, most people can still be convinced that up is down, left is right, war is peace, freedom is slavery, and imperialistic external military intervention is democratic self-determination.
-stickdog99

Ouch. Real Orwellian circumstances. Sci-fi accurately imagines the future when its at its best. Too true. She's slick. She knows the hustle, she knows how to work the media and she's got a good vibe to me. Jacqueline Kennedy was taunted for being 'overly weened'. What politician wants to be seen as the bumbling goon that they usually are? Nearly ruined Ford. Heck, we couldn't even be told our President Bush barfed on Japanese Prime Minister Miyazawa. Must uphold the image of the king! No, she's not perfect, but she's a warm welcome wind. And I tell you, I think her politic is closer to what most Americans feel these days than what Fox News, CNN or MSNBC will allow. I hate that Biden is running, he'll pull the party WAY to the right. America needs a left wing presences like Sisyphus needs a friend to help out! Might be a lesson there. We work so much better when we work together. Fuck Bolton by the way! Those fuckers are gunning for Iran once again. Totally antagonizing Iranian forces. AWFUL! And fuck the recent Israeli offensive. All acts of violence are worthless.
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby stickdog99 » Sat May 11, 2019 2:12 am

thrulookingglass » 10 May 2019 23:37 wrote:
What is truly tragic is that when every single corporate media outlet works in lockstep, most people can still be convinced that up is down, left is right, war is peace, freedom is slavery, and imperialistic external military intervention is democratic self-determination.
-stickdog99

Ouch. Real Orwellian circumstances. Sci-fi accurately imagines the future when its at its best. Too true. She's slick. She knows the hustle, she knows how to work the media and she's got a good vibe to me. Jacqueline Kennedy was taunted for being 'overly weened'. What politician wants to be seen as the bumbling goon that they usually are? Nearly ruined Ford. Heck, we couldn't even be told our President Bush barfed on Japanese Prime Minister Miyazawa. Must uphold the image of the king! No, she's not perfect, but she's a warm welcome wind. And I tell you, I think her politic is closer to what most Americans feel these days than what Fox News, CNN or MSNBC will allow. I hate that Biden is running, he'll pull the party WAY to the right. America needs a left wing presences like Sisyphus needs a friend to help out! Might be a lesson there. We work so much better when we work together. Fuck Bolton by the way! Those fuckers are gunning for Iran once again. Totally antagonizing Iranian forces. AWFUL! And fuck the recent Israeli offensive. All acts of violence are worthless.


yep
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby Cordelia » Sat May 11, 2019 4:19 pm

Yesterday's Mainstream Media further baited elderly Pelosi and showcased young AOC (never mind that other members also get to sit at teacher’s desk).


Rep. Ocasio-Cortez Becomes Youngest Woman Ever to Preside Over the House of Representatives

http://time.com/5587669/ocasio-cortez-y ... ide-house/


Image
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York presides over the House of Representatives. US House TV via Reuters

Who's been sitting in Pelosi's chair? Democrat Ocasio-Cortez

Friday, May 10, 2019 3:12 p.m. EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In another first for rookie congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the liberal Democrat from New York on Friday became the youngest woman to preside over the U.S. House of Representatives.

Sitting in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's chair as part of a routine rotation of House members
, Ocasio-Cortez took her turn with the gavel and ran the chamber for about an hour. The duty is shared day-to-day by members of the House majority, currently the Democrats.

In the event, Ocasio-Cortez did not have a great deal to do. She presided over "special orders," which are generally short speeches by House members at the end of the day's legislative business, often on issues of concern in their districts.

Ocasio-Cortez, 29, called on members as they rose to speak, once or twice stumbling over their states of origin. "For what purpose does the gentleman from Ohio - um, from Illinois, excuse me, seek recognition?" she said as Representative Sean Casten, a fellow freshman Democrat, took the floor.

"That was my first time presiding. And it's exciting. It's certainly a view. I wish we could, I wish we were allowed to take photos," she told reporters after the session.

Ocasio-Cortez describes herself as a Democratic socialist and is the most prominent member of a group of female Democrats elected to the House for the first time last November, bolstering the party's liberal wing.

She has become a sensation on social media, drawing headlines for dance routines as well as championing the Green New Deal, a package of proposals to tackle climate change.

She is the youngest woman ever elected to Congress, representing New York's 14th district in the Bronx and Queens.

https://whtc.com/news/articles/2019/may ... io-cortez/
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby JackRiddler » Sun May 12, 2019 9:22 am

All messaging goes through the modern media with its forms and norms. It's too easy to see anything and everything as suspect or phony, above all because most of it actually is. It's hardly news here that most of what is broadcast or posted is deceptive about its actual purposes and motivations, and uses manipulative means even when it is honest. Content is even forced to use manipulative means (framing, editing, emotionality, appearance, cosmetics, lighting, tropes, narrative simplifications, etc.) if it is to be considered "viewable" and "effective."

Meanwhie, if NLP makes use of simplified expressive body language to reinforce rhetoric, then it is only the latest in a long series of attempts to codify or make predictable and repetible things that humans have always been doing. There is nothing original in it. So it really wouldn't impress me that someone moves their arms in the same way, and it wouldn't impress me even if they happened to get it from an NLP video and consciously cultivate it, or if they once took a course drawing on NLP methods (or better yet: acting courses). It doesn't impress me (negatively) that AOC works the media well, or that an "instant" documentary of her appears months after her victory (such productions often get done in days or even hours), or that this video has a certain level of production values. That's all very easy to do nowadays, and a great many are trying to do it, and a great many are professional, and budgets are not nearly as prohibitive as they once were. AOC was also in Fahrenheit 11/9, prior to her election. She was good at getting attention then already and good for her, at least as long as she is putting that to good use.

It doesn't impress me (negatively) at all that she still grabs media attention, even for the irrelevant triviality of getting to sit on the speaker's chair. Let's all remember that the attention she gets is largely also the product of a relentless and pretty deranged enemy attack by the right-wing outlets, which for now thankfully has backfired. That is not always the case. The O'Keefes and Mercers and Breitbarts and Kochs and FOXes, liars who serve evil causes for their own gain and aggrandizement, often succeed in their politics of destruction -- see ACORN, for example. For now, AOC was able to flip that on these motherfuckers. I refuse to play this Vigilant Citizen self-brainwash crisis actor game wherein everyone who's any good at the media (or "good" at it in the sense that they play well by its idiot rules), which nowadays may be close to a majority of the population, is going to be portrayed as the product of a Globalist MK factory. Even when they go corrupt or careerist, the vast majority (like 99+ percent) do so for reasons very familiar to sociologists, having to do with money and admittedly skewed rational-individual choices.

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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby coffin_dodger » Sun May 12, 2019 11:30 am

She's an Establishment plant - the sooner you come to terms with this, the less disappointed you'll be when she backtracks on every promise when in power. You can apologise for her all you want, but if the mainstream is presenting her as anything but a raving lunatic, it's a cert she's been bought and paid for.
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby RocketMan » Sun May 12, 2019 3:57 pm

coffin_dodger » Sun May 12, 2019 6:30 pm wrote:She's an Establishment plant - the sooner you come to terms with this, the less disappointed you'll be when she backtracks on every promise when in power. You can apologise for her all you want, but if the mainstream is presenting her as anything but a raving lunatic, it's a cert she's been bought and paid for.


I think Jack staked a pretty even-keeled position there, dontcha think?

I certainly don't think with the info we now have that she is CERTAINLY a poison pill.
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun May 12, 2019 4:21 pm

Dems plan now is to blunt AOC by making her the precarious mascot, let her have a chance at steering the ship of the House. Isn't she cute?

But AOC is the freshest voice in the House.
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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby JackRiddler » Sun May 12, 2019 11:20 pm

coffin_dodger » Sun May 12, 2019 10:30 am wrote:She's an Establishment plant - the sooner you come to terms with this, the less disappointed you'll be when she backtracks on every promise when in power. You can apologise for her all you want, but if the mainstream is presenting her as anything but a raving lunatic, it's a cert she's been bought and paid for.


Why are YOU not an Establishment plant? You can't even speculate which "Establishment" is doing the planting of AOC. Lightweight: Without empirical evidence, on naked assertion, you express as a certainty a view that, if anyone took it seriously, would be guaranteed to split the left. That sounds like an establishment mission! However, the truth is, I have no empirical evidence to show that you are doing this intentionally, as an agent. But of course that is also true of your animalistically reflexive, worthless, pedestrian, naked assertion.

So why should you not hang by the same rope? Why can I not say whatever the fuck I like about you? Just like you (except my stuff is more persuasive), I shall base it on sheer plausibility, by my own form of logic, on what you look like from here: an anonymous account, one that never speaks from the heart, one that sows cheap dissension and paranoia, one that never has anything interesting to contribute here except exactly this kind of paranoia-bot bullshit. Of course, that would make you very retail. Little irrelevant guy.

Of course, if AOC craps out and sells out, that doesn't provide any support for the attempt by your possible employers (who probably are not even paying you minimum wage) to sow hopelessness and kill all energy for change. It does not support your dumb conclusion with its cowardly stance of never being wrong.

Don't you fucking project on me, okay? If she craps out and sells out, I would not be disappointed. I'd be angry at her failure. People crap out and sell out all the time without having been "planted by the Establishment." It's the human fucking condition. I wish the only ones who crapped out and sold out were corrupt in the first place, or "plants." But that is not my view, it is your narrowminded view of the world -- sort of eschatological, sort of grounded in original sin.

Anyway, no worries: I don't really think you are an "Establishment plant." I am merely illustrating that your logic of "looks like a duck -- to me, anyway" is stupid as fuck. It is absolutely unfalsifiable. Provide empirical evidence of the supposed connections you wish to make or shut the fuck up. (I radically disagree with Cordelia's approach, by the way, but at least she is TRYING. She is not just throwing CRAP at the current target preferred for CRAP-throwing by the right wing.)

Now please don't address me again for another year. At least, okay? Just post your hopeless bullshit without referring to my stuff, okay? I am happy to beat up on your worthless crap once a year, on the small chance that you might learn from it. (No, I do not want to find the "nice" way to address you, sorry! I want you to stay out of my life forever.) But I certainly won't have the same six minutes for at least another year. Better things to do, for me and for you! Okay?

I have you on ignore, you can do me the same favor.

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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby JackRiddler » Sun May 12, 2019 11:38 pm

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
‏@AOC

When we say “tax the rich,” we mean nesting-doll yacht rich. For-profit prison rich. Betsy DeVos, student-loan-shark rich.

Trick-the-country-into-war rich. Subsidizing-workforce-w-food-stamps rich.

Because THAT kind of rich is simply not good for society, & it’s like 10 people.


10:54 AM - 11 May 2019
24,773 Retweets 106,325 Likes


Max Kennerly
‏@MaxKennerly
Retweeted Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

I've seen criticism of "like 10 people." The ten richest Americans are worth $730 billion. The fourteen richest American families (excluding the Koch brothers, so no double-counting) are worth $511 billion. Together, they're worth more than 60% of Americans combined.


Detour: My criticism would be in an entirely different vein. These 10 (more like one to two thousand) billionaires who "own" more net worth than 80-99 percent of everyone else combined (depending on the country) absolutely should not exist! No one should have that kind of political power. At least, not as an unnaccountable, unchecked individual, and on not on no basis whatsoever other than that they collected many dollars. That makes them IDIOTS by the original definition of the word (ancient Greek for one who puts ownership of private goods above the public good). By the actual observable mechanics of capitalism, it makes nearly all of them into criminals. And by no means should they be allowed to confer this power to swing politics and steer society on their idiot children and heirs, so that we are stuck with reflections of their will unto the seventh or hundredth generation.

But if you expropriated them, as should happen, still you'd quickly find their $511 billion (or 10 trillion, or whatever the total is if we go after all of them above 100 million) really doesn't exist in a way that the full amount can simply be redistributed among the rest of us.

Billionaire expropriation is necessary, but far from sufficient. The major parts of the mode of production, the ones that are essentially already monopolies or tightly held oligopolies of a few barely competing companies: these need to be socialized. Commons need to be reestablished, protected, expanded. I have little doubt AOC understands that. Most importantly, the capital-issuing authorities (banks) have to be overwhelmingly public ones, and dedicated to actual planning towards human needs and ecological sense, rather than profit making as competitors on a so-called "market" that magically tells them to always do the right thing.

Enough detour, here's the PUNCHLINE and I love it:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
‏@AOC
12h12 hours ago
Retweeted Max Kennerly

This is a technique of the GOP, to take dry humor + sarcasm literally and “fact check” it.

Like the “world ending in 12 years” thing, you’d have to have the social intelligence of a sea sponge to think it’s literal.

But the GOP is basically Dwight from The Office so who knows.


(coming up shortly: claims that she has a comedy writer behind the scenes.)

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Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby coffin_dodger » Mon May 13, 2019 3:24 am

Rocket:
I think Jack staked a pretty even-keeled position there, dontcha think?


Yes, he did - if you believe that AOC may be coming to make your country a more comfortable place in which to exist.

But I do not believe she is coming to do that.

Believe it or not, my comments at this board are not (and have never been) aimed at the individuals that take part here, but at the ideas that they promote through the information and views that they post.
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