The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Belligerent Savant]

I think it's dangerous to get stuck on heroes. It enables shitty non-arguments like "ASSANGE IS NO HERO". Who cares what Assange "is". See what he DID.

The same goes for public figures more generally. It's good and well to be suspicious, but do you really think the US party system will simply fold and disappear? AOC is a historical trend worth tracking and from what I see, her proposals have generally been in the right direction. Pelosi's contempt for her is a good sign as well.

Seeing as the Republican party is indeed, as Chomsky (yeah yeah I know, gatekeeper etc.) said, as a whole the most dangerous organization on the planet, any nuanced discussion of their politics, such as they are, can be safely discarded... What's happening in the Democratic party is still at least a somewhat dynamic situation.

^^^^^

Largely agreed, and good points. I have a reflexive reaction to the underlying cynicism in certain marketing ploys, hence my initial response.

On the surface, most of the content in that video clip shared by stickdog represent ideals many of us would strive to see realized.

History tells us a different story about how the Establishment Parties operate, however, and the AOC phenomenon has a certain familiar cadence to it (we are now in the 'HOPE we can believe in' phase).

We shall see how it transpires in the years ahead.


(Side-note Re: Pelosi's 'contempt': I never under-estimate the optics on display. Outwardly-facing 'enemies' share libations in other less-public settings. This is Politics at its core. I don't trust much of what Pelosi -- or any politician -- displays in front of recording devices. Part of their job is to put on a mask, and much of the time that's what The People want, implicitly.)

[RocketMan]

(Side-note Re: Pelosi's 'contempt': I never under-estimate the optics on display. Outwardly-facing 'enemies' share libations in other less-public settings. This is Politics at its core. I don't trust much of what Pelosi -- or any politician -- displays in front of recording devices. Part of their job is to put on a mask, and much of the time that's what The People want, implicitly.)

That's a good point, and needs to be kept in the back of everyone's minds all the time. Easy to get caught up in the optics. I believe even I would still be pretty shocked if I really witnessed in real life how politics operates between "opposing" parties. Everyone's a colleague in parliament, after all, right? In between elections at least...

[stickdog99]

It's unconscionably stupid to hope that our current system will save us if we all just press the electronic button for the right hero.

On the other hand, complete hopelessness is a self-fulfilling prophecy that makes sociopathic oligarchs into our unopposed warlord crime bosses.

The kiddie animation's overriding focus on saviors working within the Democratic party is asinine. But considering that its intended audience is Democratic-leaning progressives who have been conditioned their whole lives by the corporate media and their own perceived "team" to self-triangulate their own political views, you have to admit that it is potentially useful propaganda. You certainly can't use the US two party system to make the anything better when you know for a fact that this is impossible. So I say dream bigger, not smaller. AOC's propaganda is far better than Obama's ambiguous promise of hope and change because it is at least focused on ideas rather than a cult of personality.

[Karmamatterz]

All good points.

But considering that its intended audience is Democratic-leaning progressives who have been conditioned their whole lives by the corporate media and their own perceived "team" to self-triangulate their own political views, you have to admit that it is potentially useful propaganda

Yes, there is that. The conditioning by the media is like an illness. If you're sick, blind or disabled your entire life you just don't know what's like to not be that way.

The two party system is just shit. The efforts by them to crush any attempt at a 3rd are swift and furious. Independents are always branded as too weird or wacko. Recall Nader was partly blamed for taking votes away from Al Gore in 2000. Wasn't Nader also blocked from the debates? The press loved making fun of Ross Perot and his ears. On and on and on. This is so f*kd up, but I think if a 3rd party is ever going to make any progress they really need serious cash to buy off the media. The media whores will give them appropriate coverage if enough ad dollars are through their way. Considering how dire it is for most print media throw a ton of money for ads their way and they would salivate. It would require a grass roots effort at fund raising as corporations will stick to their tried and true buddies in the Democrat and Republican parties.

[Cordelia]

From AOC, early GoFundMe:

Road to Standing Rock

Maria, Josh, and I will be driving from New York to Standing Rock this week. We hope to make stops in Michigan and other Midwest locations along the way. We have been in contact with organizers over the past month and will be documenting, photographing, and videotaping the drive and sharing it with you all in real time. Our trip begins tomorrow evening.

Due to the harsh winter in the Dakotas, we are fundraising for supplies to deliver in Standing Rock, namely bundles of wood, wood-burning stoves, cots, sub-zero sleeping bags, etc. All supplies on the list (including tech) have been requested by organizers and will be left at camp.

Throughout our trip (Monday evening-Saturday morning) we will be broadcasting footage and conversations from our drive. You can follow us on Facebook, Snapchat, and Instagram for updates.

We've had great support from friends and family so far - they have helped us with trip planning, connecting us to people along the way, donating supplies and giving professional advice, providing well wishes, and more. A local farmer even surprised us with a magnum bottle of his vineyard's wine as a goodwill gift of his support (we were very touched)! We would like to involve as many people as possible along the way, and your messages and contributions will tremendously benefit those who need it.

https://www.gofundme.com/road-to-standing-rock

“At Standing Rock we experienced first hand people coming together in their communities and trying to use the levers of representative democracy to try and say, ‘We don’t want this in our community, we don’t want this in our backyard,’ and corporations using their monetary influence to completely erode that process,” she says. “It was really my experience at Standing Rock that was pretty pivotal for me because I saw how corporations were literally militarizing themselves against American citizens so that they could kind of maximize their profit margins on fossil fuels.”

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/alexand ... o-congress

Are there photos of OAC at Standing Rock? A couple of months ago, when I read about her road trip across America, I could find only one photo that didn’t appear authentic to me; now the internet is glutted with images of her in slick professional pol mode or when she was a candidate. Maybe there were photos posted only in social media at the time, but if that experience was a crucial determining factor for her, wouldn’t she and her supporters want to showcase the early inspirational grassroots photographs/footage?

(Or maybe some of her legacy archives will be included in this, just released on Netflix).....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wGZc8ZjFY4

[RocketMan]

The appearance of that very slick looking Netflix documentary so soon is indeed a little suspicious.

[thrulookingglass]

Don't cloud AOC with bitterness. At least she and her supporters have actually found some traction in support of the impoverished this country turns a jilted blind eye to. It does say something about our psychology that it takes a beautiful, well primped millennial to drive the heard away from the manger of filth that 'capitalism' has become. No one would have followed an ugly Jesus. Lick your comb spokesperson.

[RocketMan]

Don't cloud AOC with bitterness. At least she and her supporters have actually found some traction in support of the impoverished this country turns a jilted blind eye to. It does say something about our psychology that it takes a beautiful, well primped millennial to drive the heard away from the manger of filth that 'capitalism' has become. No one would have followed an ugly Jesus. Lick your comb spokesperson.

That's true too.

[RocketMan]

The original Comb Licker:

[RocketMan]

This is a VERY BIG BLACK MARK AGAINST AOC, I'm afraid, courtesy of our Dear Absentee Landlord on Facebook:

https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/AOC ... A1I6UNZO80

U.S. Representative for New York's 14th congressional district, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, said Wednesday she would follow the Democratic Party’s leadership in regards to Venezuela, declining to answer a question on whether she sees President Nicolas Maduro as the legitimate President of the Bolivarian Republic.

Ocasio Cortez, sometimes referred to as AOC, was asked in an interview with the National Review if she sees President Maduro as legitimate, for which she replied, "I defer to caucus leadership on how we navigate this."

The leadership of the Democratic Party in U.S. Congress, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer have both officially recognized right-wing opposition lawmaker Juan Guaido, as "interim president" of Venezuela after he illegally self-declared as such back in January, offering a bipartisan consensus on Donald Trump's efforts for regime change.

This, I'm afraid is pure moral cowardice that can't be dressed as anything else...

[thrulookingglass]

If you're going to wallow in that pig pen called congress, better learn to grunt with the rest. Did anyone in Congress make the correct moral move with regard to American foreign policy in Venezuela? Total militant anti-socialist cia disaster. American banana republic nonsense. Drug war evil. This is our American injustice come round a las. Responsibity, it's important.

[RocketMan]

If you're going to wallow in that pig pen called congress, better learn to grunt with the rest. Did anyone in Congress make the correct moral move with regard to American foreign policy in Venezuela? Total militant anti-socialist cia disaster. American banana republic nonsense. Drug war evil. This is our American injustice come round a las. Responsibity, it's important.

Ilhan Omar.

https://news.yahoo.com/ilhan-omar-blame ... 47403.html

If you want to see what the common wisdom on Venezuela and Ilhan Omar is, google "ilhan omar venezuela". Bleeding depressing.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

Right. As I mentioned in the Omar thread,

.

AOC is displaying the tactics of a would-be political operator (though again, this is another instance of facile perspectives on an important topic, similar to her disappointing response thus far Re: Venezuela); Omar, on the other hand, is displaying integrity and courage.

We'll see, eventually, if these patterns turn out to be anomalous or part of standard practice for each of these up-and-coming reps.

[stickdog99]

This is a VERY BIG BLACK MARK AGAINST AOC, I'm afraid, courtesy of our Dear Absentee Landlord on Facebook:

https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/AOC ... A1I6UNZO80

U.S. Representative for New York's 14th congressional district, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, said Wednesday she would follow the Democratic Party’s leadership in regards to Venezuela, declining to answer a question on whether she sees President Nicolas Maduro as the legitimate President of the Bolivarian Republic.

Ocasio Cortez, sometimes referred to as AOC, was asked in an interview with the National Review if she sees President Maduro as legitimate, for which she replied, "I defer to caucus leadership on how we navigate this."

The leadership of the Democratic Party in U.S. Congress, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer have both officially recognized right-wing opposition lawmaker Juan Guaido, as "interim president" of Venezuela after he illegally self-declared as such back in January, offering a bipartisan consensus on Donald Trump's efforts for regime change.

This, I'm afraid is pure moral cowardice that can't be dressed as anything else...

https://fair.org/home/zero-percent-of-e ... venezuela/

Finally, the one thing all Demopublicans, NPR, Fox News, BBC, CBC, the Guardian, the Telegraph, the NY Times, the New York Post,Trump, Sanders, The Washington Post, Breitbart, the Drudge Report, NewsMax, Rush Limbaugh, PBS, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, the Wall Street Journal, Bret Stephens, Media Bias "Fact" Check, Paul Krugman, Caroline Kennedy, Pete Buttigieg, Tim Kaine, Kamala Harris, Pat Robertson, Newt Gingrich, Dick Cheney, the Atlantic Council, the Clintons, the Bushes, Goldman Sachs, the Koch brothers, USAID, the NED, Amy Klobuchar, Jackson Diehl, the Nation, the OAS, the Spectator, Student News Daily, the Atlantic, Sky News, the Independent, the London Times, the Miami Herald, Time, TownHall, Investor's Business Daily, John Oliver, Newsweek, and even Jeffrey Sachs can all agree on!

American Imperialism Roolz and Venezuelan Democracy Droolz!

[stickdog99]

If you're going to wallow in that pig pen called congress, better learn to grunt with the rest. Did anyone in Congress make the correct moral move with regard to American foreign policy in Venezuela? Total militant anti-socialist cia disaster. American banana republic nonsense. Drug war evil. This is our American injustice come round a las. Responsibity, it's important.

Ilhan Omar.

https://news.yahoo.com/ilhan-omar-blame ... 47403.html

If you want to see what the common wisdom on Venezuela and Ilhan Omar is, google "ilhan omar venezuela". Bleeding depressing.

What is truly tragic is that when every single corporate media outlet works in lockstep, most people can still be convinced that up is down, left is right, war is peace, freedom is slavery, and imperialistic external military intervention is democratic self-determination.