Christchurch, New Zealand

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby Harvey » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:23 pm

Flaming straw man.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4165
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:21 pm

Harvey: Confirmation. You won't deal with the obvious default hypothesis of a fascist mass murder terrorist -- and you seem unable to write even the word fascism without hastily throwing in Israel, as if it's ever the only conceivable example -- but you do want speculative constructs that don't really go against the facts since they do not actually require any whatsoever. They are general enough to almost always be applicable.

Jerky: Not cool, attempt to stir shit between others and me. Lay off the personal bullshit, thank you.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15983
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby Harvey » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:40 pm

I don't really disagree. I think there's more to this, you don't. Perhaps we'll see.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4165
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby Elvis » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:22 pm

JackRiddler » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:21 am wrote:
Jerky: Not cool, attempt to stir shit between others and me. Lay off the personal bullshit, thank you.


I believe that "just to be clear" post was merely Jerky's response to a line of Mac's that I'd already deleted. I hope you'll agree that Jerky is not your waggy-tailed puppydog and I can't blame him for saying something.

This is great discussion—onward!
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
User avatar
Elvis
 
Posts: 7411
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:08 pm

Elvis, I was going to thank you for having deleted that line, because I had intended, having slept on it, to delete it myself. But I have to correct you, not because you misremembered that unmemorable line, but because the poster who chooses to call himself "Jerky" is taking advantage of your misremembering, as is his wont. He is deliberately asserting something he knows to be untrue, and there is a name for people who do such a thing. He knows exactly what I wrote and what I didn't.

So here's exactly what I actually wrote, verbatim, including the brackets:

MacCruiskeen wrote:("There's a stray puppy yapping at your heels, Jack. Throw it a bone or something, will you? Poor thing looks hungry.")


For the record. That was it, and that was all. It was the only response required to a piece of opportunistic sycophancy, the second such suck-up in a few days.

There is a very big difference between a famished stray puppy and a lapdog. Such distinctions matter. In any case, Jack does not keep lapdogs, and I would never be so foolish as to assert that Jerky is Jack's. Nor did I, ever.

---------------

The (much) more important thing is a response to what my old friend Jack himself actually wrote, which is reallly pissing me off, and I will do that tomorrow, when I don't have to type one-fingered on a tablet while traveling after midnight.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:26 pm

I'm surprised that you lot are surprised that someone from Grafton would think that way and act on it if he had the opportunity.

His views are mainstream around here (Grafton is a bit over 100km down the road). Similar views get published in mainstream media regularly. Australian politicians with national profiles speak at anti-Islamic events. Plenty of otherwise decent white people round here think we are actually at war with Muslims and that Sharia Law currently happens in Australia. Seriously. And for the last 18 years that narrative has been pushed on people repeatedly my Murdoch's media - he owns 3/4 of the media in Australia and his employees turn up on other media channels regularly because there aren't enough other journalists left in the country.

This century between my house and Grafton arseholes have been burning crosses on hillsides. They arrange rape parties for white school girls who socialise with aboriginal people. They talk about wiping out everyone in the middle east and most of Asia, with the side benefit this has if global warming is real (less co2 in the atmosphere.)

I don't know that prick but I've met so many people round here over the years who could have been him that its hardly surprising. Most of them can access guns and most of them have been shooting (on farms and in the bush) since they were kids.

Since the attack members of his family have been in local and national media acting all surprised and shocked about whats happened and his surviving immediate family are in hiding/protective custody. Probably oblivious to the casual racism they engage in regularly. I could tell you where his mum taught (and lived) or name people he played footy (the shit sort - rugby league) with. But I'm not gonna.

You want a conspiracy look at the aristocratic wannabes who fund the propaganda that inspires this shit and look at the other ideas they constantly push.
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10594
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:47 pm

^^Thanks for that. Someone who actually knows what he's talking about actually tells us something worth knowing about, from firsthand personal experience of a place he actually knows and actually knows about.

This is one of the big reasons (certainly not the only reason) this creaky archaic International Discussion Board is something (still) worth using, and still well worth defending against crapification.

Of course alternatives exist. There's always Facespook and Twatter, or (for the "edgy") 4chan and 8chan. Freedom. What's not to like?

I know you, Facespook. You are no Rigorous Intuition.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby Grizzly » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:05 pm

Columbia Journalism Review The voice of journalism
What we learned from analyzing thousands of stories on the Christchurch shooting
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/christchurch-shooting-media-coverage.php

Interesting, to say the least ...
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
User avatar
Grizzly
 
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:07 am

Grizzly » 27 Mar 2019 13:05 wrote:Columbia Journalism Review The voice of journalism
What we learned from analyzing thousands of stories on the Christchurch shooting
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/christchurch-shooting-media-coverage.php

Interesting, to say the least ...


Its interesting but frankly its not possible to hide would be extremists from other like minded people. And its fucken Orwellian.
Joe Hillshoist
 
Posts: 10594
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:45 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:29 am

From that article in CJR
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/christchur ... verage.php

We coded for compliance with the following best practices:

Don’t publish the shooter’s name.
Don’t link to or publish the name of the forum that the shooter posted on to promote the attacks.
Don’t link to or publish the name of the shooter’s manifesto.
Don’t describe or detail the shooter’s ideology.
Don’t publish or name specific memes linked to the shooter’s ideology.
Don’t refer to the shooter as a troll or his actions as trolling.
Follow the AP guidelines for using the term “alt-right” (contain it within quotation marks or modify it with language such as “so-called” or “self-described”).


Wow, it's like the parable about how when the dragon comes you should close your eyes because then it won't see you. It's like guidelines for letting them get away with it. I understand that this code originated with a father of a victim of the Aurora shooting, and I can almost see it making sense -- in fact I've thought the same thing. When it's really a delusional type, the publicity could seed the next action.

But this WAS a political act and it must be confronted as such and pinned to its supporters. Brenton Tarrant, fascist standing among many others of his ilk, with an exterminationist manifesto, with an ideology that is old and well-known and widespread and indeed should not be defused with terms such as "alt-right." He is a fascist, there are fascists, these things should be known and fought, not denied or packaged in euphemisms.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15983
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby Grizzly » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:31 pm

Wow, it's like the parable about how when the dragon comes you should close your eyes because then it won't see you.


Agreed. What a shit parade...
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
User avatar
Grizzly
 
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:03 am

.

Here you go. Someone's feel-o-matic has been tickled.

The Algemeiner

New Zealand Mosque Chairman Accuses Mossad, 'Zionist Business' of Orchestrating Christchurch Shooting

The chairman of a New Zealand mosque was caught on video telling a rally in the city of Auckland that the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad and “Zionist business” were behind the recent shooting attack on two mosques in Christchurch. Fifty people were killed and dozens more wounded in the attacks on March 15. Australian citizen Brenton Tarrant, a white supremacist, was arrested and charged with the crime.

According to New Zealand news outlet Newshub, the Saturday rally was intended to memorialize the victims of the attacks, but at one point Ahmed Bhamji, chairman of the Mt Roskill Masjid E Umar mosque, stated, “I really want to say one thing today. Do you think this guy was alone? … I want to ask you, where did he get the funding from?” “I stand here and I say I have a very very strong suspicion that there’s some group behind him and I am not afraid to say I feel Mossad is behind this,” he added. A bystander then responds, “It’s the truth. Israel is behind this. That’s right!”

After the video of the speech was posted on Twitter, the New Zealand Jewish community quickly responded. “These conspiracy theories are dangerous lies. They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns,” said New Zealand Jewish Council spokesperson Juliet Moses. “Conspiracy theories — particularly the idea that Jews (whether through the Jewish state or otherwise) are a malevolent controlling force in the world — are at the very core of antisemitism.”

Referring to Love Aotearoa Hate Racism, the group that organized the rally, Moses said, “It is unfortunate that they did not appear to put its anti-racism message into practice by challenging or condemning the racism in their midst. We must call out hateful dehumanising language, whatever the source, target, and circumstances, and even when it is not politically expedient to do so,” she admonished. Bhamji himself was contacted by Newshub and proved unapologetic about his remarks. “Mossad is up to all these things,” he stated. “When I talk about Mossad, why should the Jews be upset about it? Give me an answer.”

Read more: https://www.algemeiner.com/2019/03/26/n ... shootings/
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15983
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby Harvey » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:10 am

Although quite interestingly, he's trying not to conflate Zionism and Judaism while most media are doing their best to confuse any understanding. You can take that as a statement of fact rather than as tacit approval. (Edit: the domain in the photo's does not exist/is up for sale. I use it to illustrate that the issue is one of great contention. Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta)

jews against zionism.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4165
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:44 am

Man charged with New Zealand mosque attacks gave money to Austrian far-right, chancellor says
3 MIN READ
VIENNA (Reuters) - Austria’s far-right Identitarian Movement received cash from the man charged with killing 50 people in mass shootings at mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, this month, Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said on Wednesday.


“We can now confirm that there was financial support and so a link between the New Zealand attacker and the Identitarian Movement in Austria,” Kurz said.

A spokesman for prosecutors in Graz said the head of Austria’s Identitarian Movement, Martin Sellner, received 1,500 euros ($1,690) in early 2018 from a donor with the same name as the man charged over the March 15 Christchurch attacks.


New Zealand police said investigators were making a large number of enquiries, across New Zealand and internationally, but refused to go into details.

Sellner, who did not reply to requests for comment from Reuters, published two videos on YouTube in which he said he had received a donation which involved an email address that matched the name of the Australian alleged to have carried out the Christchurch attacks.

He said in one of the videos: “I’m not a member of a terrorist organization. I have nothing to do with this man, other than that I passively received a donation from him.”

A woman reacts at a make shift memorial outside the Al-Noor mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand March 23, 2019. REUTERS/Edgar Su
He said the donation was from early 2018 and that he would give the money to a charitable foundation.

Sellner said police had raided his house over the possible links to the attacker.

Austria’s Identitarians, who say they want to preserve Europe’s identity, are a relatively new, media-savvy far-right movement that uses the internet to promote their actions on the streets.

They imitate the tactics of more established activist groups such as Greenpeace. In 2017, they helped charter a ship as part of what they said was a campaign to defend Europe and they have tried to stop migrants crossing the Mediterranean from Libya.

Hansjoerg Bacher, spokesman for Graz prosecutors, said an investigation was underway about whether there were criminally relevant links between Sellner and the mosque attacker.

The Austrian Interior Ministry declined to comment.

Kurz said Austria was looking into dissolving the Identitarian Movement.

“Our position on this is very clear, no kind of extremism whatsoever - whether it’s radical Islamists or right-wing extremist fanatics - has any place in our society,” he said.

Kurz said on Twitter on Tuesday any connection between the Christchurch attacker and members of the Identitarian Movement in Austria needed to be fully clarified.

Austrian Vice-Chancellor Heinz-Christian Strache, of the far-right Freedom Party (FPO), said the FPO had nothing to do with the Identitarian Movement.

New Zealand has announced a royal commission inquiry into the Christchurch attack.

A suspected white supremacist has been charged with one count of murder over the shootings and will next appear in court on April 5.

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said the man had not been on any watch lists in New Zealand or Australia.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-newz ... SKCN1R80MX
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:28 pm
Location: into the black
Blog: View Blog (83)

Re: Christchurch, New Zealand

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:17 am

.

(to Harvey's last post including the anti-Zionist Jews)

Sure, sure. And you've got to be kidding me.

Point is, the imam (in my previous post) already drew his target, despite the total lack of anything other than extremely broad contextual-historical precedents ("something like what I am imagining has happened before, in some places, at some times"). Such associations can be applied as though they were evidence to direct suspicions with equal validity toward literally a dozen other 100% theoretical perpetrators. Only thing missing here is an actual connection to point to, as well as a specific motive for the theoretical actor to do this, one that in any way is even 10% as plausible as the motive would be for a fascist who believes in exterminating the invaders. Why should we not arbitrarily say, this could be the CIA, or ISI, or ISIS/al-Qaeda (who regularly murder Muslims for assimilating), or Westboro Church members, or drug cartels -- and don't tell me you can't construct some kind of motive why it might be drug cartels, say in some plausible alternate reality in which the attack disguises the murder of some accountant who knew where billions were laundered. (Stuff like this has happened! Passenger planes have been brought down for less.) Any gap in evidence allows unlimited construction, and any case will always include evidentiary blank areas. What did the shooter have for breakfast? Who was in the room next door? Don't know? Well then you can decide who it might have been! Can anyone disprove it?

I can understand why the imam might have a grudge against Israel, certainly, but his "you-know-what-I-had-a-feeling" is not any kind of basis for this preprogrammed response, and of course, what do you know, it just happens to reflect that grudge.

On the other hand, I think it is okay, assuming the minimum conditions stated in the rest of this sentence are met, to have a reflexive belief that Australian white power fascists from Grafton with money are capable of committing the terrorist attack in Christchurch, which was accompanied by a manifesto encouraging an exterminationist solution to Muslim "invaders" in concordance with the feelings of Australian white power fascists from Grafton, and has been attributed to an Australian fascist from Grafton who appears to be the guy in the self-made helmet video of the first attack, in which the filmer murders forty-two people.

Given that, I think it is okay to put "fascist terrorism" at the top of your list of ideologies/motives of interest, and maybe also in the first 99 rankings after that. I don't think it's "divisive." And until something concrete really tears apart that all-too compelling story of fascist terrorism as recorded on video, I cannot make which interests I can imagine this attack may incidentally serve be the measure of truth.

Let's repost a local expert's testimony - thanks Joe!

Joe Hillshoist wrote:I'm surprised that you lot are surprised that someone from Grafton would think that way and act on it if he had the opportunity.

His views are mainstream around here (Grafton is a bit over 100km down the road). Similar views get published in mainstream media regularly. Australian politicians with national profiles speak at anti-Islamic events. Plenty of otherwise decent white people round here think we are actually at war with Muslims and that Sharia Law currently happens in Australia. Seriously. And for the last 18 years that narrative has been pushed on people repeatedly [by] Murdoch's media - he owns 3/4 of the media in Australia and his employees turn up on other media channels regularly because there aren't enough other journalists left in the country.

This century between my house and Grafton arseholes have been burning crosses on hillsides. They arrange rape parties for white school girls who socialise with aboriginal people. They talk about wiping out everyone in the middle east and most of Asia, with the side benefit this has if global warming is real (less co2 in the atmosphere.)

I don't know that prick but I've met so many people round here over the years who could have been him that its hardly surprising. Most of them can access guns and most of them have been shooting (on farms and in the bush) since they were kids.

Since the attack members of his family have been in local and national media acting all surprised and shocked about whats happened and his surviving immediate family are in hiding/protective custody. Probably oblivious to the casual racism they engage in regularly. I could tell you where his mum taught (and lived) or name people he played footy (the shit sort - rugby league) with. But I'm not gonna.

You want a conspiracy look at the aristocratic wannabes who fund the propaganda that inspires this shit and look at the other ideas they constantly push.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15983
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 40 guests