What can we trust?

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Re: What can we trust?

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:36 am

MacCruiskeen » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:27 am wrote:tazmic, you beat me to it! That video is brilliantly funny, very precisely observed, and (therefore) a real public service. It's such a timesaver.

The Complete and Utter Works of Adam Curtis in three minutes flat! All you need to know is here:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bX3F7u ... e=youtu.be

From the voice-over, one priceless quote among many:

"Combining archive documentary material with interviews, Curtis filled in the gaps by vomiting grainy library footage onto the screen, to a soundtrack of Brian Eno and Nine Inch Nails. He had discovered that it did not matter which footage he used, so long as he changed the shots so bewilderingly fast that the audience did not notice the chasm between argument and conclusion. This was especially effective when he simply cut the music mid-bar." [music cuts out mid-bar]



8bitagent » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:59 pm wrote:
tazmic wrote:



HOLY CRAP! I literally almost spit out my soda. That is, wow...simply a brilliant spot on parody. I'm a huge Adam Curtis fanboy and love his trademark woozy hypnotic collage/music/narrative style, but he hit all the right notes here. "late night wikipedia binge", and "armed with a skinny puppy cd", oh man...

Adam Curtis could make a right wing documentary talking about how communists are behind US entertainment pop culture and I'd still eagerly watch and be entranced by his technique.
To me, documentaries are often the feeling and not always the message.


8bitagent » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:30 am wrote:See, cognitively I recognize Michael Moore, Curtis, etc play certain fiddles...but I don't care. It's an intoxicating brew I can't get enough of!



tazmic » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:31 am wrote:
MacCruiskeen wrote:The Complete and Utter Works of Adam Curtis in three minutes flat! All you need to know is here

It's worth adding this:

ERROL MORRIS: There are those that believe that [the Gulf of Tonkin incident was] part of a conspiracy to escalate the Vietnam War. Here’s a question: are they right? And, in an even more general sense, is history primarily a history of conspiracy? Or is it just a series of blunders, one after the other? Confusions, self-deceptions, idiocies of one kind or another?

ADAM CURTIS: It’s the latter. Where people do set out to have conspiracies, they don’t ever end up like they’re supposed to. History is a series of unintended consequences resulting from confused actions, some of which are committed by people who may think they’re taking part in a conspiracy, but it never works out the way they intended.

I couldn't have summed him up better myself.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby Grizzly » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:40 am

We all need some, “Fear Inoculum” , about now.


Finally, something I can give myself over fully to..

Long time coming, indeed.


[Verse 1] Immunity, long overdue Contagion, I exhale you Naive, I opened up to you Venom and mania Now, contagion, I exhale you

[Interlude] The deceiver says, he says "You belong to me You don't wanna breathe the light of the others Fear the light, fear the breath Fear the others for eternity" But I hear them now, inhale the clarity Hear the venom, the venom in What you say inoculated Bless this immunity Bless this immunity Bless this immunity

[Chorus] Exhale, expel Recast my tale Weave my allegorical elegy

[Verse 2] Enumerate all that I'm to do Calculating steps away from you My own mitosis Growing through division from mania

[Chorus] Exhale, expel Recast my tale Weave my allegorical elegy

[Bridge] Forfeit all control You poison, you spectacle Exorcise the spectacle Exorcise the malady Exorcise the disparate Poison for eternity Purge me and evacuate The venom and the fear that binds me

[Outro] Your veil now, lift away I see you runnin' Deceiver chased away A long time comin
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:54 am

MacCruiskeen » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:45 pm wrote:Exclusive: a transcript:

The Power of Nightmares

by Adam Curtis

Image

These men are all watched over by machines of loving grace. No one knows why. It is a profound mystery. Here is a film of a man teeing off at a golf course in 1951. Remarkably, only five years later, there was a popular uprising in Hungary. Then: Vietnam. Here is a film of Twiggy. She is on her way to a London nightclub. The Swinging Sixties were at their height. This was to lead, eventually, to some surprising developments. But first: Who was Charles Hawtrey? To understand this, we need to go back a liitle in history. Here is a daguerrotype of a Dutch peasant taking a crap in a field. What could explain this? The answer may seem obvious... but is it?

In 1662, a little-known Flemish philosopher named Arnold Geulincx...


(Fuck it, that's enough. Curtis gets paid for this.)


Image

Carry on.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby alloneword » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:53 pm

RocketMan » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:37 am wrote:
Can you reveal what that doc is?


The one that ruined it for me? "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace", second part, IIRC. Enough to send Donella Meadows spinning in her grave. I don't have it any longer to be more specific and the BBC now block it on youtube. :shrug:

I did always like Charlie Brooker's pre-amble to this Adam Curtis piece:



Yes, it's comedy.

That comment from Curtis (in Grizzly's clip) accusing Sirkov of creating 'a bewildering, constantly changing piece of theatre... ceaseless shape-shifting, unstoppable because its indefinable' is kinda how I feel about the fast-cut montage editing technique Curtis employs. At best, it's hypnotic eye-candy, yet the ideas conveyed, all wrapped in a soothing, simple narrative delivered by the Grandfatherly voice of the accompanying narration remain very firmly within the bounds of the Overton window.

But yeah, BBC. Nothing new, and nothing much to add - it's all covered quite well in the thread linked in MacC's quote above - Corbett was good on the subject.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:58 pm

watch it here
All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace - Episode 2 - The Use and Abuse of Vegetational Concepts

https://vimeo.com/groups/96331/videos/80799352
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby alloneword » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:32 am

On reflection and in light of Curtis' recent output, there is a little more I'd like to add...

It has to do with the thread title, Curtis, Brooker, RI, all of it.

To put it bluntly: I came to dislike Adam Curtis' work because it tends toward seeking to single out individuals (villains) as the root cause of much of the worlds problems, whilst downplaying systemic drivers such as institutional or societal factors.

(I found his segment in 'Machines...' objectionable as it went so far as to belittle and dismiss the work of some of the very people who sought to develop tools that could be useful in understanding such systemic drivers).

I see a media - mainstream, independent and alternative - generally beset by the same conceptual blindfolding in it's blaming of the Trumps, Putins, Boris Johnsons etc. for the worlds innumerable woes, without ever pausing to examine the underlying systems within which these actors operate.

This has everything to do with 'narrative' - or rather, the hegemony exerted by a certain prevailing 'narrative style' - and how it distorts the way 'facts' are reported, the stories we are told and that we tell ourselves (and of ourselves) and hence the way most of us view the world. In these stories there are 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. Bad things happen because the bad guys make them happen. Get rid of the bad guys: no more bad things.

But they are only stories. It's not the way the world really works.

Brooker gets it.

A guy called Zeynep Tufekci certainly gets it:
Hollywood mostly knows how to tell psychological, individualized stories. They do not have the right tools for sociological stories, nor do they even seem to understand the job...

...shows that travel in the psychological lane [...] depend on viewers identifying with the characters and becoming invested in them to carry the story, rather than looking at the bigger picture of the society, institutions and norms that we interact with and which shape us.


Craig Murray gets it:
The fascinating thing is the binary, good versus evil, narrative which is being pursued in the liberal media. Trump and Johnson are bad. Therefore Hunter Biden and Brendan Cox must be good. The truth, of course, is much more complex than that. I am afraid to say that if you want an excessive simplification, a more accurate one would be that the entire political elite on all sides are self-serving and venal.


Even Snowden gets it:
The political system, the legal system, the social system. And we have the proclivity to think that if we get rid of the people we don't like, the problem is solved. We go: "Oh, it's Donald Trump. Oh, it's Boris Johnson. Oh, it's the Russians" But Donald Trump is not the problem. Donald Trump is the product of the problem.


...many more get it. Too many don't.

So who can we trust? Certainly not those who seek to convince us that the world is full of 'Heroes' and 'Villains', that's for sure.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:58 am

^^^^^^^^

SPOT-ON.

'Too Many don't get it', indeed, which lends itself to the frustrations expressed by those that do.

This forum's front page of threads provide a microcosm of that dynamic on full display: the pervasive, front-facing blarings of the facile narratives spread across readily accessible 'news' outlets that focus on the individual, or an individual entity, as the source of what's wrong with our society/world rather than the (egregiously under-reported) long-running systemic underpinnings that have enabled, reinforced, incentivized and facilitated such vile behavior.

The Tufekci, Craig Murray and Snowden quotes are on-the-nose.

Good stuff, alloneword.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:10 am

I am aware that a clear fair reading of the front page disproves that theory

multiple topics by multiple, at least 20 RI members...many different OPs that have running for years, at least 21 OPs which is about half of the OPs on the front page

once in awhile it would be helpful if you would provide proof of your wild assertions

edited to clean up the quote of the front page of GD so to make is more easily readable in order to make my case

I do want to thank Belligerent Savant for admitting his reply above was about me....so there is no doubt I did NOT make this about me he did

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Last edited by seemslikeadream on Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby RocketMan » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:33 am

Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:58 pm wrote:^^^^^^^^

SPOT-ON.

'Too Many don't get it', indeed, which lends itself to the frustrations expressed by those that do.

This forum's front page of threads provide a microcosm of that dynamic on full display: the pervasive, front-facing blarings of the facile narratives spread across readily accessible 'news' outlets that focus on the individual, or an individual entity, as the source of what's wrong with our society/world rather than the (egregiously under-reported) long-running systemic underpinnings that have enabled, reinforced, incentivized and facilitated such vile behavior.

The Tufekci, Craig Murray and Snowden quotes are on-the-nose.

Good stuff, alloneword.


YES, I agree. Very excellent stuff, alloneword.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby Sounder » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:46 am

SLAD wrote...
I am aware that a clear fair reading of the front page disproves that theory


What a hoot, the BS theory says we focus on the individual so as to avoid looking at systemic issues. And you (hilariously) turn it into something about YOU.

Fact is Slad, a fair reading of the front page shows that you have keyboard diarrhea.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:47 am

you are hysterical

diarrhea....that's a cute one, not really a personal attack just a bit smelly

I stated facts with proof that BS's post was wrong... it has nothing to do with me, sorry you can't handle facts and have only a personal attack to offer in response

I can count, it seems you have lost that ability

There is a diverse wide ranging OP topics multiple years old on the front page authored my many RI members

it is not my problem you have little interest in many topics posted by many RI members and have no interest in replying to them to keep them up to date


I checked with a mod ...I am still able to express my opinion in any thread here
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:22 am

.

seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:10 am wrote:
once in awhile it would be helpful if you would provide proof of your wild assertions



As Sounded noted, this isn't about you, though you clearly have enough self-awareness to realize that you are the most prolific poster here, particularly with respect to copy/pasting MSM-tainted news events onto this board, not as context for an over-arching premise that seeks to look beyond the overt messaging, but as face-value representations of "what's happening".

In my prior post, I typed:

Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:58 am wrote:
This forum's front page of threads provide a microcosm of that dynamic on full display: the pervasive, front-facing blarings of the facile narratives spread across readily accessible 'news' outlets that focus on the individual, or an individual entity, as the source of what's wrong with our society/world rather than the (egregiously under-reported) long-running systemic underpinnings that have enabled, reinforced, incentivized and facilitated such vile behavior.



See the portion I bolded?

How many of your General Discussion topics focus PRIMARILY on an individual or an entity (such as -- needless to type -- TRUMP, and more recently Guliani, Putin, or with respect to an 'entity', RUSSIA, etc.) rather than the underlying mechanisms that enable and facilitate the activities of such actors?

Then, of course, there's the playing up of the tribalistic dividing lines [Democrats vs. Republicans, U.S. vs. Russia, etc..] which largely serve to further misdirect the average observer, pushing their focus away from the underlying connective tissue binding these actors and respective operations (which continue to benefit the very few at the expense of the majority, regardless of the Establishment Party in office).

We can go anywhere else on the internet for such narratives. A few of us come here to look behind these props to what's holding them up. It's an increasingly challenging endeavor here, however, as the white noise has been transported into this space as well.

I won't be directing any more replies to you or about you, FYI. I'd like to keep the focus on alloneword's sentiment above.


Edited to add:

Anyone can post what they want, within forum guidelines.

'Treatments' or 'profiles' of an individual and/or entity is fair game, of course. My point is about the volume, and the context, of the information shared. Posting content here largely as a 'pass-through' replicator of overtly available storylines, extensively and mostly at face-value (rather than, for example, how those storylines are often obfuscating and intently masking underlying objectives), is to the detriment of this board's appeal.

All of this is merely my opinion.
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby Sounder » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:52 am

People who focus on other people are usually participating in what is little more than gossip. It is a low level of intellectual engagement. People that focus on events are doing a bit better, but what drives the world are ideas.

Unfortunately, we seem so distracted by the white noise, pace of life, divisive society or whatever, that we don't develop the structure of ideas that can legitimately supersede this current dominant narrative.

My opinion, we cannot trust the ten percent protectors of the one percent.

Their lot in life is to monopolize the world of ideas, and they are doing a damn good job of it. :yay :yay :yay :yay :yay :yay :yay :yay :yay :yay
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby 82_28 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:10 pm

As an armchair historian, I drool at the access the research team and Curtis have at the BBC filmed archives. That's why he gets a pass from me at least. I don't really listen to the narration but I do like the shit we'd never ever see again. I do listen to it but the forgotten footage is spectacular. But "what can we trust?" for sure. Unveiling all this lost-ish footage regardless is invaluable in my eyes.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: What can we trust?

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:23 pm

just like 8bitagent I'm a huge Adam Curtis fan

propagandist? I suppose It takes one to know one.....some stimulate....others pacify

of course I also like Massive Attack videos :)

I especially like Oh Dearism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8moePxHpvok

and this one as was posted in the OP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyop0d30UqQ

no one was sure what was real or fake. As one journalist put it: “It is a strategy of power that keeps any opposition constantly confused

and this interview
RUPERT MURDOCH - A PORTRAIT OF SATAN
.....
It has great bits with Robert Maxwell huffing and puffing about how Murdoch hasn't played by the rules. Murdoch's response - "Yesterday Mr Maxwell called me a moth-eaten kangaroo. I'd like to point out that I haven't yet got to that stage"

Robert Maxwell would go on to become one of the greatest criminals in British business history. And then he would fall off a boat in the Atlantic and drown in 1991
.......
https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/ ... it_of.html
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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