Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby Elvis » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:29 pm

My best friend owned a Volt for a few years, it has a small gas engine to recharge the battery as needed. In a hilly city like Seattle, however, the gearbox & brakes constantly recharge the battery and the gas engine never even comes on. Car was problem free and he got it on a year-end deal for just $13K. Paid for itself in gasoline savings.

Now for a year or two he's been driving a Bolt, which is all electric. He regularly makes a 400-mile round trip with a recharge at the destination. No problems. Owning one is so complicated. :roll: You get home and you plug it in. That's it.

Performance is a whole new experience. Have the naysayers ever driven one?
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby Sounder » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:02 am

Like I said, I drove and considered electrics when shopping. I know several people that are very happy with their electrics and hybrids, including my Trump loving brother in law who has an old Honda Insight, a few work mates with Volts and customers with Tesla's. I think it's great that they are on the market but IMO they are not the leap forward needed cure our ills given that they use similar amounts of initial resources, materials and processes, plus the addition of battery material that is not inconsequential.

Also, just because one cannot smell it at the pump does not mean that effluents are not dumped somewhere. Like at the generating plant, 45% coal supplied in the US.

If we really want a leap forward, rather than this feel good window dressing, we will look to the actual Tesla rather than to the dipshit that repurposed his name.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:32 am

All of which I would imagine everyone posting here knows well.
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:37 am

Of course electric vehicles are just displaced pollution, as long as power plants run on coal.

In my home state of Iowa, I just received my annual statement from Mid-Amercian Energy, showing that nearly half of all power generated and sold within their regional monopoly was from wind energy, with just slightly more than half from coal. That means something. This was not the case 10 years ago. I can't afford a Prius, let alone one of Elon Musk's Teslas, but until we re-unlock the science of free energy Tesla championed, using electric vehicles and generating more power from anything other than combustible materials seems like a win-win to me.
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:51 am

mentalgongfu2 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:37 am wrote:Of course electric vehicles are just displaced pollution, as long as power plants run on coal.


Also, they change little about the sociopolitical tragedy of automobilization, its flattening and shattering of nearly all human and other habitats in such a way that the former humans become subordinate to it, products of it.

Also, they're manufactured with "fumes," as a distinguished moron noted recently in technically correct fashion, and represent all the familiar atrocities of large consumer goods overladen with electronic nervous systems, in terms of ecological and labor impacts. Generally more than 90% of the total-product-cycle measure of destruction and death represented by each four-wheeled beast was accomplished in its manufacture, before anyone owned it as their own or needed to buy fuel, with the lion's share coming already in the extraction of the raw materials.

Is that (1) an inevitability built into all industrial endeavors regardless of economic system, as certain deep ecologists would argue? Or is it (2) mainly the product of capitalist incentive systems that don't regulate such impacts, or fail to price them to the producer/owner/organizer/financer of the "value creation chain," instead allowing their near-complete externalization from the perspective or incentive-matrix of decision-makers, also keeping most of the blood and burnt flesh outside the borders of the primary consumer nations?

We don't know the first for sure either way, because the second guarantees it happens without allowing a clean empirical test of the first. In any credible scenario for change not involving post-apocalyptic retries a thousand years hence or global mass human die-offs, the capitalist incentive system has to be replaced.

Regardless, in every scenario so far there have been too many four-wheeled beasts and infrastructures given over to them, and reduction/avoidance/reorganization of settled spaces to minimize their use/alt-transit will always beat mere reinvention of the drive mechanism.

All that being said, the analogous stuff about Greta and the boat does not generally speak to Greta and what she says when she speaks, or to who she is: whether she's legit personally or acts independently, whether she's the product of a theater or a genuine article surrounded by exactly the theater one would expect, given the Society of the Spectacle.

And it doesn't matter. The attacks on the young woman who happens to be a kind of lightning rod and Rohrschach test would be a distraction, just another excuse not to deal with reality, even if they were true! (Which, I believe firmly, they are not.)

True that the boat is rich people showing off the options you don't have, or, to use the current right-wing lingo, "virtue signalling." (Interesting that "virtue" became such a vice to those who would inherit the mantle of its original upholders and signalers, those republican conservative fathers of yore.)

Also possible that it may be rich people showing prototypes of ways to cross the ocean that may one day be more sustainable and practical than current ones. Experimentation in this sphere does not rise to the level of crime.

Also true that even if solar sea transport were to work and achieve sustainability, it would be no more than a millionth-fraction of a solution for what faces civilization and its humans (and no one's claiming otherwise, afaik) in the face of the anthropogenic global ecocatastrophe and planetary extinction event brought on by habitat destruction, burning of hydrocarbons for energy, privatization and hyperexploitation of commons, relentless indifference to financially externalized poisoning and other externalized impacts, arranged or forced overconsumption-for-private-profit of absolutely every conceivably-exploitable iota within the cycles of production and consumption, and other terminal and automatic political-economic programming with a lot of historical momentum that is not only incentivized but rendered necessary and inevitable by the present corporatocratic-financialized iterations of the capitalist system

(a description of that thing that is sometimes harmlessly rendered as "climate change," so that optimists can bullshit themselves about its susceptibility to solution via bullshit tech-fixes or carbon taxes; and so that eco-opportunists can opportune on the sidelines and cause Sounders to go tut-tut at the imagined globalists perpetrating the scam; and so that doofus-denialists in that vein and whore-armies of lobbyists and think-tankers and pundits and fakers receiving billions in oil-and-gas PR money can construct dismissible strawmen, or otherwise bog down the discussion in legalist and sophistic minutiae while their owners/clients tear open whole new vast vistas of peoples to displace from lands and waters to despoliate within years for a brief energy-and-profit boost via cartoonishly destructive explosive extractive methods; although I have to admit my alternate term is a bit bulky).

.

Meanwhile...

In my home state of Iowa,


WOW! THAT IS INTERESTING!!!

I've been thinking about Iowa a lot lately, and here you say that. Here on RI. Have you ever mentioned it before, or is it just magical TIMING?

.
Last edited by JackRiddler on Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby Elvis » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:35 am

mentalgongfu2 wrote:Of course electric vehicles are just displaced pollution, as long as power plants run on coal.


I almost mentioned, the displacement is not so bad in this region, as we have mainly hydro power.

Good to hear about wind power in Iowa!
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby FourthBase » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:59 am

Also, they change little about the sociopolitical tragedy of automobilization, its flattening and shattering of nearly all human and other habitats in such a way that the former humans become subordinate to it, products of it.


Agreed.

I fucking hate cars, regardless of the carbon issue. If climate alarmism prompts a retreat from car-centrism and a great re-pedestrianization, wonderful.

Same for meat. It's for the wrong reasons, but if worrying about carbon gets more people to stop eating murdered mammal corpses, awesome.
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:23 pm

JackRiddler -

I've been thinking about Iowa a lot lately, and here you say that. Here on RI. Have you ever mentioned it before, or is it just magical TIMING?


I'm quite sure I have mentioned it before. I do not often reference where I live, but I have not made a secret of it. I once met the now long-gone poster Chiggerbit in the RL, as she also was from this state.

What interests you about it? Our upcoming caucus? or something else

And FWIW, most of the state is still sorry about Steve King.
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:41 am

[deleted post]

I over-reacted and was probably the real jerk in this exchange, so am removing my jerk comments but leaving this as a placeholder for continuity.
Last edited by mentalgongfu2 on Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby coffin_dodger » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:43 am

LOL, it took 3 days. He may have a point.
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:20 am

metalgonfu2, see your PM please and consider editing your post if you agree that your interpretation is mistaken and rather opposite to what I meant. Iowa is in fact one of the most interesting states in the union, no kidding whatsoever. Apologies for the delayed response, but you know, we end up busy, etc., without it being meant to insult.
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Re: Greta Thunberg, Climate Protests, and the Reaction

Postby norton ash » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:26 am

I was in Iowa once. We were speeding down a dirt road, hit a pig, and rolled into a cornfield full of dead baseball players. I found it interesting.
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