Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:56 pm

Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:29 pm wrote:.

What you are posting are NOT FACTS.



FACTS

In May, Ukrainian oligarch said Giuliani was orchestrating a ‘clear conspiracy against Biden’
Josh Rogin
Rudolph W. Giuliani, President Trump's personal attorney wipes his forehead as he listens to Trump speak in the Rose Garden of the White House on July 29, 2019. (Pablo Martinez Monsivais/Associated Press)
Months before an intelligence community whistleblower accused President Trump’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani of digging for dirt on former vice president Joe Biden in Ukraine, many in that country knew what he was up to and some were talking about it publicly.

One Ukrainian oligarch in particular, a figure close to President Volodymyr Zelensky, claims to have first-hand knowledge of Giuliani’s activities because, he says, Giuliani’s business associates tried to rope him into the scheme. When this Ukrainian business tycoon, Ihor Kolomoisky, rejected Giuliani’s request for help, Giuliani attacked him on Twitter and called for him to be investigated. Kolomoisky then gave an on-the-record interview on Ukrainian television in which he predicted that Giuliani was soon going to be the center of a “big scandal” in the United States.

In May, Kolomoisky told Ukrainian media, in an interview barely noticed in Washington, that two of Giuliani’s business associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, came to visit him in Israel in April to “demand” he set up a meeting between Giuliani and Zelensky. This was months before Ambassador Kurt Volker eventually did set up a meeting between Giuliani and Zelensky’s adviser Andriy Yermak.

“They wanted to have a meeting with Zelensky and show Giuliani that they had organized everything,” Kolomoisky said. “A big scandal may break out, and not only in Ukraine, but in the United States. That is, it may turn out to be a clear conspiracy against Biden.”

Kolomoisky owned the television station that distributed the comedy show in which Zelensky played the role of the president of Ukraine. He was living in Israel after the government in Kiev nationalized his bank amid accusations he embezzled billions of dollars. His relationship with Zelensky is long and complicated. But he said he rejected the “demand” from Parnas and Fruman that he connect Giuliani with Zelensky, who was then the incoming new president.

“Look, there is Giuliani, and there [are] two clowns, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, who were milking the bull here. They are Giuliani’s clients,” Kolomoisky told the Ukrainska Pravda website. “They came here and told us that they would organize a meeting with Zelensky. They allegedly struck a deal with [Prosecutor-general Yuriy] Lutsenko about the fate of this criminal case – Burisma, [former vice president] Biden, meddling in the U.S. election and so on.”

Kolomoisky is no innocent. In addition to being accused of extensive financial crimes, the Ukrainian-Jewish billionaire also stands accused of using quasi-military forces on behalf of his PrivatBank to corruptly take over other companies. The government forcibly nationalized PrivatBank in 2016. The Ukrainian official who made that decision was recently run over by a car and endured an arson attack on her home – with Kolomoisky the prime suspect.

But what’s important is not whether Kolomoisky is trustworthy – it’s that Giuliani’s attempts to get to Zelensky began well before Volker or the whistleblower got involved. And his efforts were not only well known, but public. In July, BuzzFeed published an extensive investigative report on what Giuliani, Parnas and Fruman were up to.

Giuliani told my Post colleagues this week that he has not done paid consulting work in Ukraine since 2017. He would not say if he is currently being paid by Parnas and Fruman, who were pursuing a natural gas export venture involving Ukraine at the same time.

Three congressional committees are demanding documents related to hundreds of thousands of dollars Parnas and Fruman donated to a pro-Trump Super PAC. Parnas told the Post he got involved in politics because he was a huge Trump supporter; Fruman declined to comment.

Kolomoisky, in his May interview, claimed to have lots of evidence about Giuliani’s efforts with Parnas and Fruman to dig up dirt on Biden and get various Ukrainian officials to help. He claims to have text messages from Parnas and Fruman detailing Giuliani’s motives and receipts of money they were paid.

“If we put aside conspiracy theories and some comedy staff, the situation was about their willingness to make both Lutsenko and Zelensky interested in continuing the investigation (into Biden),” he said. “There is so much interesting information that everyone will be interested [to know it]. I believe both U.S. and our law enforcers. And they will be very interested . . . .”

Lutsenko has recently said he found no evidence the Bidens committed any wrongdoing. Giuliani turned on Lutsenko this week, after working with him for months to push the Biden narrative.

Kolomoisky went public with his accusations about Giuliani, Parnas and Fruman after Giuliani tweeted on May 18 that Kolomoisky was under investigation by the FBI and had “threatened two American citizens,” Parnas and Fruman. Giuliani said Kolomoisky was an enemy of Trump and suggested Zelensky should arrest him.

Giuliani cancelled his own trip to Kiev in May after facing public criticism but told the New York Times on May 9 his trip was to advance his “meddling in an investigation.” I reported in May Giuliani was involved in a smear campaign against U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, who was recalled early. On Wednesday, Giuliani admitted pushing a package of research that included allegations against Yovanovitch to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for him to “investigate.”

Congress likely will want to follow up and see if Kolomoisky has real evidence that confirms what Giuliani, Parnas and Fruman were doing. But regardless of whether you believe this Ukrainian oligarch, Giuliani’s meddling in Ukrainian politics and interference in U.S. foreign policy to advance the Biden accusations was extensive, public and predated the involvement of the State Department, Volker or the whistleblower.

Kolomoisky got at least one thing exactly right: Giuliani’s scheme would soon result in a “big scandal.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... nst-biden/
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:58 pm

Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:29 pm wrote:.

What you are posting are NOT FACTS.


Where have you gone I was just starting to really enjoy giving you the facts so you could refuse to read them :thumbsup

Rudy Giuliani just threw Mike Pompeo all the way under the bus

Thank you so much for the interest in Rudy ..this has been enjoyable

I was so looking forward to answering your questions that you didn't really want answers to :P

Damn and I even went looking for a spoon to feed you with :)

Image

FACTS

‘Rudy is admitting to manufacturing White House’ documents: columnist explains Giuliani may be admitting to another crime
By Sarah K. BurrisOctober 2, 2019
Rudy Giuliani may have admitted to yet another crime. According to Washington Post columnist Josh Rogin, the packet of documents the former New York City mayor crafted and handed over to the State Department falsified that they were official White House documents.

“Rudy admits to CNN he passed the packet of Ukraine conspiracy theories and attacks on a U.S. ambassador to Pompeo,” Rogin tweeted Wednesday.

“They (the State Department) told me they would investigate it,” Giuliani confessed.

“By the way, Rudy is admitting to manufacturing White House logos and sticking them on non-White House documents and pushing the real government to act on them,” Rogin explained.


Former director of ethics, Walter Shaub asked if Rogin was “inferring” from Giuliani that he was the one responsible for the packet or if he was saying he sat down and drew “White House” in the upper corner.

Rogin clarified that Giuliani confessed to giving the packet of documents to Secretary Mike Pompeo.

“I don’t know who exactly worked the photoshop, but the president’s lawyer gave it the Secretary of State and this was not an official WH document,” Rogin said.

States have their own document forgery laws, but here are the federal laws that outline document fraud.


Josh Rogin

@joshrogin
By the way, Rudy is admitting to manufacturing White House logos and sticking them on non-White House documents and pushing the real government to act on them. https://twitter.com/joshrogin/status/11 ... 5155487744
Josh Rogin

@joshrogin
Rudy admits to CNN he passed the packet of Ukraine conspiracy theories and attacks on a U.S. ambassador to Pompeo. "They (the State Department) told me they would investigate it."

27K
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https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/rudy-i ... her-crime/
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:24 pm

Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:29 pm wrote:.

What you are posting are NOT FACTS.



DAMN this is one of the best ones yet I hope you will come back and not read it!

I am in such a good mood today you can't even spoil it for me

One of the central figures in the Trump-Giuliani-Ukraine nexus is Sam Kislin, a businessman often identified with the Russian émigré community of Brighton Beach in Brooklyn—and with alleged mob connections

DEEP SWAMP
Trump and Giuliani Connections to Ukraine Corruption Go Back Years
The House wants a trove of documents and communications from Sam Kislin, who helped Trump stave off bankruptcy and helped fund Giuliani’s political campaigns.
Anna Nemtsova
Adam Rawnsley
Christopher Dickey
Updated 10.01.19 6:19AM ET / Published 10.01.19 12:01AM ET

Photo Illustration by Lyne Lucien/The Daily Beast
KYIV, Ukraine—Such is the swamp of corruption in Ukraine that Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani, in their many dealings with its businessmen, have been only one degree of separation from what’s generally called the Russian Mob. Or maybe less. And that’s not new. It goes back decades, to Trump’s years as a real-estate developer and Giuliani’s campaigns for mayor of New York City.

Now that Trump is president, with Giuliani acting as his lawyer and shadow envoy to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Democratic rivals past and present—an effort leading to alleged abuse of the president’s office and impeachment proceedings in the House of Representatives—those shady connections take on a whole new significance.

FARA FILINGS
New Details Emerge on Ukraine’s Trump Admin Lobbying Blitz

Lachlan Markay

One of the central figures in the Trump-Giuliani-Ukraine nexus is Sam Kislin, a businessman and philanthropist often identified with the Russian émigré community of Brighton Beach in Brooklyn—and with alleged mob connections.

On Monday, the three House committees pursuing the impeachment inquiry sent a “request” to Kislin for a potentially vast trove of documents and communications with Trump, Giuliani, and scores of Ukrainians.

Kislin was not immediately available for comment.

Giuliani responded to a text message: "You are investigating people who may or may not have contributed to me 20 years ago." In fact, the contributions to his campaigns are a matter of public record. Giuliani suggested this line of inquiry is in itself some kind of coverup. "Why not focus on Biden’s shocking pay to play scheme, not how I uncovered it," he asked. "You should applaud my getting these serious allegations attention."

The Biden allegations have not been substantiated by Ukrainian officials, although some in the Kislin circle would like to help make the case.

MOB-SPEAK
At the heart of the current impeachment inquiry is Trump’s none-too-subtle bullying of Ukraine’s recently elected President Volodymyr Zelensky in a July 25 phone call as exposed by a so-far anonymous whistleblower and partial notes on the conversation released by the White House.

ADVERTISING

Trump has described the call as completely ordinary and indeed “perfect”—which suggests the president of the United States is oblivious to his own accustomed mob-speak. Ukraine’s survival against Russian aggression was at stake, Trump had withheld vital aid, and when it was mentioned by Zelensky, Trump asked for “a favor”—the dirt he longs for on Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. The exchange reads like a geopolitical version of the old protection racket threat: “Nice shop you got here, too bad if something happened to it.”

Although recently published narratives in the New York Times and elsewhere about developments over the last few months name several Ukrainian businessmen as intermediaries in Giuliani’s efforts to slime Clinton and Biden, for anti-corruption activists here the first local figure that leaps to mind in connection with Trump and Giuliani is 84-year-old Sam Kislin.

“Two years ago the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), citing as its motive ‘defense of economic interests,’ barred Kislin from entering the country.”
He has introduced himself to Ukrainian journalists as “Giuliani’s ex-adviser” and bragged of his donations to Giuliani’s mayoral campaigns in the 1990s. Kislin and Trump have been photographed together, and in the late 1990s Kislin reportedly played a small but crucial role helping Trump stave off financial disaster.

Kislin’s alleged ties to major figures in the Russian mob have been widely written about and only partially denied—an issue we will explore here at some length. He reportedly has been investigated by the FBI, but he has never been charged with any crime in the United States.

RELATED IN WORLD

Ukraine’s Corruption Fighters Shocked by Trump’s Phone Call

Ukrainian Official: Trump Wants Dirt ‘To Discredit Biden’

Russia’s Fingerprints Are on Trump’s Whistleblower Scandal
Two years ago the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), citing as its motive “defense of economic interests,” barred Kislin from entering the country, a decision reversed in the courts since Zelensky became president last May. Kislin showed up soon afterward, telling local reporters he intended to testify against former President Petro Poroshenko.

Certainly if Trump or Giuliani needed a tour guide to the vast mire of Ukraine’s corruption, few know more about it than Kislin, who is currently caught up in a contentious fight to recover some $23 million he claims was stolen from him by Zelensky’s predecessor.

“I have come across such schemes! I can see everything,” Kislin told investigators from the Stop Corruption website. “Nobody needs to tell me anything, I can read by the eyes, I can read the lips, how people behave themselves here. It is time to become civilized.”

LITTLE ODESSA
“Sam” Kislin was born Semyon Kislin in the Black Sea port of Odessa in 1935, but built his fortune out of the “Little Odessa” neighborhood around Brooklyn’s Brighton Beach. Kislin emigrated from what was then the Soviet Union in 1972 and, according to a brief biographical sketch on his website, first went to Boston, where he “found work at various jobs to support his family, including a grocery clerk and taxi cab driver.”

In 1976 Kislin moved to Brooklyn where “with the assistance of fellow Russian émigrés, Mr. Kislin established a small electronics store, where he sold goods to local residents.” Many of those residents were shipping or carrying appliances back to the USSR. Kislin writes that he “began trading goods with the former Soviet Union and, in time, became well respected in the international business community.”

It was right at the beginning of his Brooklyn career that Kislin made the acquaintance of a brash young real estate developer named Donald Trump who, Kislin subsequently told Bloomberg Businessweek, bought 200 televisions on credit for one of his Hyatt hotel projects. Kislin said that Trump paid him in full after precisely 30 days. “He never gave me any trouble,” Kislin said.

A much more important connection came years later.

In 1992, according to his website biography, Kislin “established Trans Commodities, Inc., which he ultimately developed into one of the world’s premiere commodities trading firms.”

“Look, back in the day it was impossible not to be connected to criminals.”
— Leonid Nor, Odessan diaspora office in Brighton Beach
Remember, in 1992 the Soviet Union had just collapsed and many billionaires were created almost overnight by looting the resources of the defunct communist empire. The lines between shrewd business dealings and organized crime were difficult to draw, including in Little Odessa.

“Look, back in the day it was impossible not to be connected to criminals,” Leonid Nor, vice president of the Odessan diaspora office in Brighton Beach, told The Daily Beast earlier this month.

In at least one instance, Kislin helped newly minted billionaires from the defunct USSR find useful places to put their money. Not in commodities but in luxury apartments.

Real estate was a favorite safe haven for fugitive Russian monies since they could convert mountains of cash into opulent residential addresses with few reporting requirements.

Nobody understood that better than Donald Trump, who had been cultivating Russian and other ex-Soviet clients from the beginning. But in 1998 he was struggling to survive. His casino and resort operations in Atlantic City were in deep trouble, and to recover he had to launch an enormous construction project—what would be at the time the world’s tallest all-residential building: Trump World Tower opposite the United Nations in New York. It was a huge gamble. Trump was under a mountain of debt to German banks. But the apartments were especially attractive to oligarchs who had just seen the ruble collapse and were rushing to get even more of their money out of Russia.

That’s where Kislin stepped in. As Bloomberg Businessweek reported, he offered his former Soviet compatriots personal mortgages, which presumably allowed them the time to move their money and, if they chose actually to be in New York, to live in over-the-top Trumpian luxury.

The 1990s also saw the flowering of Kislin’s relationship with Rudy Giuliani. As a matter of public record, when Giuliani ran for mayor in 1993 and then for re-election in 1997, Kislin, his family and companies contributed $46,250 to Giuliani’s campaign and organized fundraisers that garnered much more. Giuliani then appointed Kislin to the mayor’s Council of Economic Advisors, a position that Kislin still brags about.

MOB ALLEGATIONS
In 1999, as Giuliani was about to launch his campaign against Hillary Clinton for the U.S. Senate in the 2000 election, Kislin reportedly co-chaired a fundraiser for him that racked up $2.1 million in contributions. But just then an investigation by the nonpartisan Center for Public Integrity made headlines: “Rudy Donor Linked To Russian Mob,” bannered the New York Post. Even The Moscow Times ran the Associated Press version of the story.

The Center for Public Integrity report noted that Kislin acknowledged “a business history with a reputed Soviet Bloc crime figure and a notorious arms dealer.” It cited a 1996 Interpol report that claimed Kislin’s Trans Commodities was “used by two reputed mobsters from Uzbekistan, Lev and Mikhail Chernoy, for fraud and embezzlement.” It stated that “a confidential 1994 FBI intelligence report on the Brooklyn, N.Y., mob organization headed by Vyacheslav Ivankov, the imprisoned godfather of Russian organized crime in the United States, lists Kislin as a ‘member/associate’ of Ivankov’s gang. It claims that his company co-sponsored a Russian crime boss and contract killer for a U.S. visa and asserts that he was a ‘close associate’ of the late notorious arms smuggler Babeck Seroush, who later settled in Russia.”

The report said both the FBI and Interpol concluded Trans Commodities had “laundered millions of dollars and was used for fraudulent banking documents by the Chernoys in the early 1990s as the brothers engineered the takeover of much of Russia’s metals industry, notably aluminum, through alleged embezzlement, money laundering and murder.”

“Never, never, never.”
— Sam Kislin, when asked about alleged money laundering
(Chernoy had a long-running billion-dollar feud with Oleg Deripaska, another metals magnate once closely connected, as it happens, to former Trump campaign chairman and convicted felon Paul Manafort. Chernoy and Deripaska settled out of court in 2012 and just this year Deripaska, after U.S. sanctions against him were lifted, invested $200 million in a new aluminum plant in Kentucky, the home state of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. But that’s another story.)

Sam Kislin’s responses to the Center for Public Integrity were measured. “He acknowledged that Trans Commodities employed Mikhail Chernoy as the company’s manager between 1988 and 1992, but said he knew Lev Chernoy only in passing. ‘Mikhail Chernoy is the best man I ever knew,’ he said.”

Kislin said he didn’t know mob boss Ivankov. But, yes, he had done business with Seroush. That visa for a hit man? Someone had forged Kislin’s signature. And money laundering? “Never, never, never.”

Kislin reiterated that he has never been charged with a crime in the United States.

The most exhaustive investigation of Kislin and his family on the public record was conducted by the Massachusetts Gaming Commission in 2012 and 2013 when a company partly backed by Sam Kislin’s nephew, Arik Kislin, applied for a casino license.

The commission was far from satisfied with an investigative report supplied by Arik, which the commission suggested was “reverse due diligence” with “the intent of showing a clear record or history.” That report had claimed Sam and Arik did not work together and in fact Arik did not like his uncle very much. An investigator hired by the commission concluded Arik “was heavily involved in the business activities of his uncle Semyon (Sam) Kislin and his brothers.”

But even the favorable due diligence report had nuggets like this: “In 1992, [Arik] Kislin formed a company called Blonde Management. Kislin stated that the company was created for Chernoy’s convenience… Blonde Management periodically sponsored individuals for U.S. temporary work visas at Chernoy’s direction. There have been media reports that Blonde Management and Trans Commodities sponsored Anton Malevsky for a visa to enter the U.S. Malevsky was reputed to be a member of a Russian organized crime group and a contract killer. [Arik] Kislin acknowledged that, at Chernoy’s direction, Blonde Management submitted a work visa on Malevsky’s behalf.”

Malevsky died in a parachuting accident in South Africa in 2001.

The company backed by Arik Kislin did not get the gaming license in Massachusetts.

LAND OF THE OLIGARCHS
This background on Kislin is well known to independent corruption investigators in Ukraine.

The head of Transparency International in Kyiv, Andrii Borovyk, told The Daily Beast he is concerned about businessmen previously returning to Ukraine who previously were banned by law. “Kislin and his friends with dubious backgrounds helped Giuliani to get elected,” Borovyk said, adding, “Their activities should be a concern for any state.“

“We have questions for our authorities: what was Kislin doing in the offices of high [Ukrainian] officials?” Borovyk said he is “very worried” that former businessmen from the orbit of deposed pro-Putin President Viktor Yanukovych’s “who were previously accused of various violations here are now being permitted to come back to Ukraine.”

“We understand who Kislin is. He is considered to be a thief from New York, very well connected to organized crime,” Daria Kaleniuk, one of Ukraine’s most articulate corruption fighters, told The Daily Beast.

Kaleniuk’s watchdog organization, Ukraine’s Anti-Corruption Action Center, is keeping an eye on Kislin. “Kislin and a few other Giuliani clients, including Ukrainian billionaire Pavel Fuks, were buying Yanukovych’s toxic money; and Kislin wants his money back,” Kaleniuk said. Fuks is supposed to have played a significant role in promoting the Biden conspiracy theory to Giuliani.

HERE WE GO
House Subpoenas Rudy for Documents About Trump and Ukraine

Erin Banco,
Asawin Suebsaeng

President Trump repeated several times at the press conference with President Zelensky that he knew many “very good Ukrainian people.” Perhaps he had in mind such men as Fuks and Kislin.

Certainly Kislin feels he’s got the backing of his powerful friends from New York City as he wages what sometimes sounds like a vendetta against the former head of state here. He accuses ex-President Petro Poroshenko of stealing not only his own money, but money supposed to have been part of a deal with the Trump administration. “Poroshenko cheated on my president, Donald Trump,” Kislin told the local press this summer. He claimed Poroshenko had promised to buy huge volumes of American coal, but did not, and in the process “stole $700-$800 million.”

The morass of corruption here is nothing if not complicated. Yuriy Lutsenko, the prosecutor Giuliani spoke with extensively about Joe Biden’s son Hunter, who was never accused of breaking any laws in Ukraine, is the same prosecutor who seized $1.5 billion held in Cyprus banks that Lutsenko said belonged to ex-President Yanukovych's "team," and Kislin now says belongs to him.

Back in Brighton Beach, meanwhile, it seems Trump and Giuliani can do no wrong. Leonid Nor, the vice president of the Odessan diaspora office, told The Daily Beast that when he’s visited Sam Kislin and his wife at their home, Kislin has talked about being “Trump’s old friend.” And that’s still a badge of honor. “We in our Odessa diaspora community all voted for Giuliani and for Trump,” says Nor. He says he even donated money for Trump’s border wall meant to keep out unwanted immigrants.

(Anna Nemtsova reported on this story from Kyiv.)
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-and ... itter_page
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:32 pm

.

I see you've been busy in the past 30min re-pasting material. Chiming back in briefly to re-insert 3 of my prior postings for context, as I see you're already re-framing a bit. This continued reference/callback to "Rudy" is baffling, as if he's the only source for the claims about Biden.

You can get away on a technicality that, yes, some of these articles you're posting contain certain "facts", but that doesn't in any way exonerate Biden [or Trump, for that matter]. Relying on MSM sources for "facts" is a fool's errand. Politics is being played on both sides and you're lapping it up, broadcasting establishment storylines in this forum without filter.


Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:06 pm wrote:.
seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:05 am wrote:
An important note for media covering Ukraine and Biden. They are not unproven charges. They are false charges. There is a big difference.



What information is available to back this up [that the charges are "false"]?





Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:19 pm wrote:.

I haven't read or heard a single thing Rudy has said. The closest I come to material that may have emanated from Rudy is what you post HERE in this forum, but I scroll past most of your content, so am spared. I ignore much of the nonsense that passes for 'news' on most major media outlets, as should be clear by now. I have, however, come across information from other sources that strongly suggest that Biden's activities, and that of his son, are minimally worthy of investigation.

You claimed the charges are "False", so I'll repeat and expand: what charges are you referring to, and how did you come to the conclusion that said charges are "false"?

Note: I never indicated there is "proof" Biden is guilty of the charges leveled against him.







Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:33 pm wrote:.

you can continue to take up as much available space here to type and paste as much content as you like [or as much as can be allowable]. It won't, by itself, change REALITY.

Posting 1,000,000 copy/pasted articles about Russiagate does not, and did not, cause Trump to disappear. We shall see what this latest gambit by your Democratic Party will accomplish this time around.

Whatever it may be, the average American will continue to get hosed.

[Not sure why you continue to mention Rudy. I've no interest in what Rudy says. The claims against BIDEN are not only/purely based on what Rudy or Trump say, despite what you may have read, or have been led to believe]


And with that, I leave you to your sandbox once again.

Good luck with it.
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:33 pm

sorry you are having trouble reading I did get a spoon for you would you like me to use it?

yeah I have been busy I told you I am in a fantastic mood


btw there was a lot of new stuff there but you wouldn't know that cause you don't read

damn you are gone again ...can't stick around to be a non reader?

maybe if I linked to Fox News or Breitbart you'd attempt a paragraph or two :lol:

this is a pretty good article to read or ignore whatever you choose :lol:


Trump Ordered Ukraine Ambassador Removed After Complaints From Giuliani, Others
Marie Yovanovitch dismissed after Trump allies said she was blocking Biden probe and bad-mouthing president, people familiar with the matter say

Oct. 3, 2019 5:12 pm ET
Then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch in Kyiv in November 2018.
Then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch in Kyiv in November 2018. Photo: Maxym Marusenko/Zuma Press
WASHINGTON—President Trump ordered the removal of the ambassador to Ukraine after months of complaints from allies outside the administration, including his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, that she was undermining him abroad and obstructing efforts to persuade Kyiv to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, according to people familiar with the matter.
The recall of Marie Yovanovitch in the spring has become a key point of interest in the House impeachment inquiry. A whistleblower complaint by a CIA officer alleges the president solicited foreign interference in the 2020 elections by pressing Ukraine’s president in a July 25 call to pursue investigations, including into the activities of Mr. Biden, a Democrat who is running for president.

The complaint cites Ms. Yovanovitch’s ouster as one of a series of events that paved the way for what the whistleblower alleges was an abuse of power by the president. Mr. Trump has described the call with his Ukrainian counterpart as “perfect” and the House inquiry as a “hoax.”
Rudy Giuliani, President Trump’s personal lawyer, speaking in New York last month.
Rudy Giuliani, President Trump’s personal lawyer, speaking in New York last month. Photo: Angela Weiss/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
State Department officials were told this spring that Ms. Yovanovitch’s removal was a priority for the president, a person familiar with the matter said. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo supported the move, an administration official said. Ms. Yovanovitch was told by State Department officials that they couldn’t shield her from attacks by the president and his allies, according to people close to her.

In an interview, Mr. Giuliani told The Wall Street Journal that in the lead-up to Ms. Yovanovitch’s removal, he reminded the president of complaints percolating among Trump supporters that she had displayed an anti-Trump bias in private conversations. In Mr. Giuliani’s view, she also had been an obstacle to efforts to push Ukraine to investigate Mr. Biden and his son Hunter.
As vice president, Mr. Biden spearheaded an international anticorruption reform push in Ukraine, which included calling for the dismissal of a prosecutor the U.S. and its allies saw as soft on corruption. He had once investigated the Ukrainian gas company where Hunter Biden served on the board at a salary of $50,000 a month, according to one official with ties to the company. Mr. Trump has accused the Bidens of corruption.

In May, Ukraine’s then-prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, said he had no evidence of wrongdoing by the Bidens.

When Ms. Yovanovitch left her post in May, the State Department said she was concluding her assignment “as planned,” and that her departure date aligned with the start of a new administration in Ukraine. She was recalled at least three months before the end of the customary three-year diplomatic tenure.

Mr. Giuliani told the Journal that when he mentioned the ambassador to the president this spring, Mr. Trump “remembered he had a problem with her earlier and thought she had been dismissed.” Mr. Giuliani said he subsequently received a call from a White House official—whom he declined to identify—asking him to list his concerns about the ambassador again.

President Trump speaking in the Oval Office on Wednesday.
President Trump speaking in the Oval Office on Wednesday. Photo: Chris Kleponis/Bloomberg News
Mr. Giuliani said he gave Mr. Pompeo a nine-page document dated March 28 that included a detailed timeline of the Bidens’ dealings in Ukraine and allegations of impropriety against Ms. Yovanovitch, including that she was “very close” to Mr. Biden.

“He called me back and he said they were going to investigate,” Mr. Giuliani said of the secretary of state, saying Mr. Pompeo asked for additional documents to back up the allegations. “The reason I gave the information to the secretary was I believed that he should know that the president’s orders to fire her were being blocked by the State Department.”

Neither the State Department nor the White House responded to requests for comment.

Andrew Bates, a Biden campaign spokesman, said Mr. Biden has professional respect for Ms. Yovanovitch but that the two aren’t close. “She became our ambassador during the final 6 months of the administration,” he said. “This is standard Rudy Giuliani: noun, verb, lie about Joe Biden. ”

When asked about Ms. Yovanovitch’s removal Thursday, Mr. Trump told reporters: “I don’t know if I recalled her or somebody recalled her but I heard very, very bad things about her for a long period of time. Not good.”

Ms. Yovanovitch couldn’t be reached for comment. She is set to testify before House lawmakers on Oct. 11 as part of the impeachment inquiry. People close to her disputed that she did anything wrong and defended her work.

“She was doing everything by the book,” said a senior Ukraine government official who interacted with her. “Everything was blessed by State Department.”

Ms. Yovanovitch remains an employee of the State Department and is a senior State Department fellow at Georgetown University.

A career diplomat, she first served as the second-ranking diplomat in Kyiv in 2001 under President George W. Bush and returned as ambassador under President Obama in 2016.

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo confirmed for the first time Wednesday that he listened in on the phone call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that prompted a House impeachment inquiry. Photo: Associated Press/Andrew Medichini
Prior to Ms. Yovanovitch’s recall from Kyiv, her relations with some senior Ukrainian officials were fraught. Ms. Yovanovitch openly criticized the office of Mr. Lutsenko, then the prosecutor general, for its poor anticorruption record. “Lutsenko hated her because she pushed for reforms, especially in the judiciary sector,” said a former Western diplomat in Ukraine.

Presidents have the authority to nominate and remove ambassadors. But some senior officials at the White House and State Department say they had been unaware of the president’s displeasure with Ms. Yovanovitch and surprised by her removal.

Mr. Giuliani’s role in pressing for the ambassador’s ouster is unusual given that he holds no formal government role. The president’s critics contend that, in his capacity representing the president’s personal interests as his attorney, he has exercised undue influence over administration policy and personnel.

Mr. Giuliani isn’t the only figure outside the administration to have expressed concerns about the ambassador. As early as the spring of 2018, Pete Sessions, at the time a GOP congressman from Texas, sent a letter to Mr. Pompeo asking for her removal, saying he had been told Ms. Yovanovitch was displaying a bias against the president in private conversations.

Mr. Sessions told the Journal he didn’t follow up on the matter and didn’t hear until months later about Mr. Trump’s interest in replacing her. He declined to say where his information about the ambassador came from but said his letter was in line with a broader concern among members of Congress that the administration wasn’t moving swiftly enough to put new ambassadors in place.

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

Should career diplomats reflect a president’s political interests or be shielded from them as they represent the U.S. abroad? Join the conversation below.

In a March 2019 interview with a columnist at The Hill, Mr. Lutsenko complained that the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv was obstructing corruption investigations, including by providing a “do not prosecute” list and restricting Ukrainian access to the U.S. Mr. Lutsenko’s claim is mentioned in the whistleblower complaint.

The U.S. State Department at the time called the untouchables list claim an “outright fabrication.” Mr. Lutsenko later retracted the allegation about the list and said had no evidence of Biden wrongdoing. He was dismissed in August.

In early 2019, Mr. Lutsenko met twice with Mr. Giuliani, who around the same time stepped up his quest to collect information he could use to persuade Ukraine to open an investigation into the Bidens. The men met in New York in January and in Warsaw in February.

Mr. Lutsenko couldn’t be reached for comment. Mr. Giuliani said he brought concerns about the ambassador to the president in the weeks following his meetings with Mr. Lutsenko. “It would have been a dereliction of my duty if I didn’t,” he said. He accused Ms. Yovanovitch of blocking his efforts to push Ukraine to investigate the Bidens: “I think she covered it up.”

The president’s supporters kept up criticism of Ms. Yovanovitch. In a March 22 interview on Fox News, Joe diGenova, a lawyer close to the president, accused Ms. Yovanovitch, without providing evidence, of having “bad-mouthed” Mr. Trump to Ukrainian officials and having told them “not to listen or worry about Trump policy because he’s going to be impeached.”

Mr. diGenova declined to comment. In the Fox interview, Mr. diGenova added: “The president has ordered her dismissal from her post.” The same month, Donald Trump Jr. , the president’s son, referred to the ambassador in a Twitter message as a “joker.”
After Volodymyr Zelensky won the Ukrainian presidency on April 21, State Department officials told their Ukrainian counterparts that they favored continuity at the embassy in Kyiv, rather than inserting a new ambassador, according to people familiar with the matter.

Instead, Ms. Yovanovitch was recalled about two weeks after the election. The State Department hasn’t named a successor.

In the July 25 call, Mr. Trump described Ms. Yovanovitch to Mr. Zelensky as “bad news.” Mr. Zelensky responded: ”It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%.”

In early May, a packet of materials was received by Mr. Pompeo’s office at the State Department, according to an account given Wednesday to House and Senate committee members by the State Department inspector general and later described by Democratic lawmakers. The inspector general told Congress he had information relevant to the impeachment investigation. The inspector general didn’t respond to requests for comment.

It contained several folders marked “Trump Hotel” containing notes and newspaper clippings Democratic lawmakers said were designed to smear Ms. Yovanovitch, packaged in an envelope marked “White House,” according to documents viewed by the Journal.

“It is a package of propaganda and disinformation and conspiracy theories,” said Rep. Jamie Raskin (D., Md.).

The nine-page document Mr. Giuliani said he gave to Mr. Pompeo dated March 28 was part of that packet, according to a person who saw the packet.

—Alan Cullison, Courtney McBride, Natalie Andrews and Georgi Kantchev contributed to this article.

http://archive.is/f8d2K
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:38 pm

Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:19 pm wrote:.I have, however, come across information from other sources that strongly suggest that Biden's activities, and that of his son, are minimally worthy of investigation.

The only "other sources" I've seen suggesting that Biden's activities, and that of his son, should be investigated beyond the investigation that was already conducted, have major credibility gaps, to put it mildly. Could you link the ones that don't?
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:40 pm

oh I missed that why didn't he link to those other sources?

I think that would be a good idea so I don't have to take the word of an anonymous person on the internet

maybe he will get some and get back to us I would like to see proof of him actually reading something

well he did read my The Intercept link I know because he reposted it and put in some bold, that was a good one, I believe he likes The Intercept

and here's the slight problem see I am banned from posting it the other Biden thread that he is posting in so apparently BS is coming here to ask me questions, and the thing is he is free to post in my thread kinda not fair if you ask me.



from above link

Trump had the ambassador to Ukraine removed after complaints from Rudy Giuliani and others outside the administration that she was blocking a Biden probe
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:26 pm

.

stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:38 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:19 pm wrote:.I have, however, come across information from other sources that strongly suggest that Biden's activities, and that of his son, are minimally worthy of investigation.

The only "other sources" I've seen suggesting that Biden's activities, and that of his son, should be investigated beyond the investigation that was already conducted, have major credibility gaps, to put it mildly. Could you link the ones that don't?


This investigation that was already conducted... which one was that?

That aside: the larger issue, of course, is that much of Biden's activities in the Ukraine, or China, are par for the course among 'top-tier' U.S. politicians on both sides of the aisle. The level of corruption they partake in is essentially accepted/normalized. For this reason, regardless of the merits, a proper investigation likely won't happen, for the same reasons why the Democratic Party won't push the scope of any impeachment proceedings to extend beyond its current very limited [and therefore, less likely to succeed] boundary: because Trump's more egregious impeachment-worthy actions would set a precedent for future presidents the Democrats [or Republicans] don't want to set.

This thread, if you haven't perused it yet, is worthy of attention [Bidens, CFR, CIA, & media cover]:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41840

This Atlantic piece touches on my comments above:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... on/598804/

An excerpt:


Scratch into the bios of many former U.S. officials who were in charge of foreign or security policy in administrations of either party, and you will find “consulting” firms and hedge-fund gigs monetizing their names and connections.

Some of these gigs require more ethical compromises than others. When allegations of ethical lapses or wrongdoing surface against people on one side of the aisle, they can always claim that someone on the other side has done far worse. But taken together, all of these examples have contributed to a toxic norm. Joe Biden is the man who, as a senator, walked out of a dinner with Afghan President Hamid Karzai. Biden was one of the most vocal champions of anticorruption efforts in the Obama administration. So when this same Biden takes his son with him to China aboard Air Force Two, and within days Hunter joins the board of an investment advisory firm with stakes in China, it does not matter what father and son discussed. Joe Biden has enabled this brand of practice, made it bipartisan orthodoxy. And the ethical standard in these cases—people’s basic understanding of right and wrong—becomes whatever federal law allows. Which is a lot.

Who among us has not admired or supported people who have engaged in or provided cover for this kind of corruption? How did we convince ourselves it was not corruption? Impeachment alone will not end our national calamity. If we want to help our country heal, we must start holding ourselves, our friends, and our allies—and not just our enemies—to its highest standards.



Hunter obtains a $50,000/month board member position with Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company months after Joe Biden backs a coup there, and he [Hunter] then lands a lucrative deal in China after his father flew him there on Air Force Two, but never mind all that: these people are pros. Plausible deniability is always their go-to option, and the Bidens are not so foolish as to conduct their business in a way that can lead to damning 'discovery' [though I may later be proven wrong here, depending on how events over the next 6 or so months transpire. Same can be said for Trump, of course].

In another reality, the above would absolutely be worthy of a thorough investigation.
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:28 pm

Yeah the thread I am banned from posting in but you can post in both

I am going to start posting in the other Biden thread now if you can post in both so can I

I am done with the ban and 82 said I could post there

if you are going to bring all the posts from that thread here I will do the same see ya in a few

I started this thread because I was banned from the one you are linking from


NEW: Top State officials drafted statement in Aug for Ukrainian pres Zelensky to release that committed to investigating HBiden linked company and '16roots. Latest evidence of Trump’s Ukrainian fixation driving diplos to bend policy to his political agenda
https://twitter.com/nytmike?ref_src=tws ... r%5Eauthor


Trump Envoys Pushed Ukraine to Commit to Investigations
Oct. 3, 2019, 7:02 p.m. ET
Kurt D. Volker on Thursday on Capitol Hill.
Kurt D. Volker on Thursday on Capitol Hill.Zach Gibson/Getty Images
WASHINGTON — Two of President Trump’s top envoys to Ukraine drafted a statement for the country’s new president in August that would have committed Ukraine to pursuing investigations sought by Mr. Trump into his political rivals, three people briefed on the effort said.

The drafting of the statement marks new evidence of how Mr. Trump’s fixation with Ukraine began driving senior diplomats to bend American foreign policy to the president’s political agenda in the weeks after the July 25 call between the two leaders.

The statement was drafted by Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, and Kurt D. Volker, then the State Department’s envoy to Ukraine, according to the three people who have been briefed on it.

Mr. Volker spent Thursday on Capitol Hill being questioned by House investigators as Democrats pursued their impeachment inquiry into Mr. Trump’s actions. He disclosed a set of texts in September in which the top American diplomat in Ukraine, alluding to Mr. Trump’s decision earlier in the summer to freeze a military aid package to the country, told Mr. Sondland and Mr. Volker: “I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.”

After speaking with Mr. Trump, Mr. Sondland texted back that there was no quid pro quo, adding, “I suggest we stop the back and forth by text.”

It was not clear if the statement drafted in August by Mr. Sondland and Mr. Volker came up in the closed-door session on Capitol Hill.

The statement was written with the awareness of a top aide to the Ukrainian president, as well as Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer and the de facto leader of a shadow campaign to push the Ukrainians to press ahead with investigations that could be of political benefit to Mr. Trump, according to one of the people briefed on it.

The statement would have committed Ukraine to investigating the energy company Burisma, which had employed Hunter Biden, the younger son of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. And it would have called for the Ukrainian government to look into what Mr. Trump and his allies believe was interference by Ukrainians in the 2016 election in the United States to benefit Hillary Clinton.

The idea behind the statement was to break the Ukrainians of their habit of promising American diplomats and leaders behind closed doors that they would look into matters and never follow through.

It is unclear if the statement was delivered to Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, but no statement was released publicly under his name. Around that time, the Ukrainian officials indicated to the Americans that they wanted to avoid becoming more deeply enmeshed in American politics.

The drafting of the statement, which came in the weeks after the July 25 phone call between Mr. Trump and Mr. Zelensky, was an effort to pacify Mr. Trump and Mr. Giuliani and normalize relations between the two countries as Ukraine faced continuing conflict with Russia. Mr. Sondland and Mr. Volker believed that Mr. Giuliani was “poisoning” Mr. Trump’s mind about Ukraine and that eliciting a public commitment from Mr. Zelensky to pursue the investigations would induce Mr. Trump to more fully support the new Ukrainian government, according to the people familiar with it.

Mr. Giuliani said he was aware of the statement but that it was not written at his behest. He said the statement would include a commitment to investigations of Burisma and the circumstances around the 2016 election.

Nicholas Fandos and Maggie Haberman contributed reporting.
http://archive.is/UAfgS
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:34 pm

.

You go, girl. You do you.
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:35 pm

see ya or not if I have any free time it is getting pretty busy and I don't need to bother with it

I do see you reading in that thread but can't read this one but you can post in it so strange so very strange

82_28 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:59 pm wrote:Christ almighty. SLAD and all members are free to post where they want. No "rules" have been broken and no member should feel trepidation about responding to someone else's OP thread. There might be some confusion as to my mentality in this given a previous recent thread in which I asked to have the name change. I erred on not fucking with it. Wasn't my business. There is an ignore command that can be used but everyone is free as it is and cannot be told what they can and cannot do.


Image
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:42 pm

Turns out Donald Trump really did fire the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine for not being corrupt enough in the fake Biden scandal

---------------------------------

southpaw

TAYLOR: I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.

SONDLAND: [that charge is] incorrect [... POTUS has been] crystal clear no quid pro quo of any kind

SONDLAND: I suggest we stop the back and forth by text.

'Crazy to withhold security' aid to Ukraine for political campaign: Top US diplomat

PHOTO: Ambassador William Taylor holds a news conference in Kyiv, capital of Ukraine, June 25, 2019.Avalon.red via Newscom, FILE
In newly disclosed text messages shared with Congress, the top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine writes to a group of other American diplomats that "I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign.”

Interested in Impeachment Inquiry?
Add Impeachment Inquiry as an interest to stay up to date on the latest Impeachment Inquiry news, video, and analysis from ABC News.
The exchange, provided by another American diplomat, former U.S Special Envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker, as part of his closed-door deposition before multiple House committees Thursday, shows what appears to be encrypted text messages he exchanged with two other American diplomats in September regarding aid money President Donald Trump ordered to be held back from Ukraine.

J. Scott Applewhite/AP PHOTO: Kurt Volker, a former special envoy to Ukraine, arrives for a closed-door interview with House investigators, as House Democrats proceed with the impeachment inquiry of President Donald Trump, at the Capitol in Washington, Oct. 3, 2019.
Kurt Volker, a former special envoy to Ukraine, arrives for a closed-door interview with House investigators, as House Democrats proceed with the impeachment inquiry of President Donald Trump, at the Capitol in Washington, Oct. 3, 2019.more +
In the Sept. 9 exchange, obtained by ABC News, the concerns are expressed by Bill Taylor, the top U.S. diplomat to Ukraine. Gordon Sondland, the United States Ambassador to the European Union, responds to Taylor, saying that charge is "incorrect."

(MORE: Live updates: Trump says Ukraine, China should investigate Bidens as former envoy testifies)
Avalon.red via Newscom, FILE PHOTO: Ambassador William Taylor holds a news conference in Kyiv, capital of Ukraine, June 25, 2019.
Ambassador William Taylor holds a news conference in Kyiv, capital of Ukraine, June 25, 2019.more +
"Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump's intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo’s of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelenskiy promised during his campaign," Sondland says.

John Rudoff/Sipa USA via AP, FILE PHOTO: U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon D. Sondland spoke to World Oregon today, March 25, 2019, in the organizations Portland, headquarters.
U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon D. Sondland spoke to World Oregon today, March 25, 2019, in the organization's Portland, headquarters.more +
Sondland then suggests to the group take the conversations off line, typing, “I suggest we stop the back and forth by text.” It’s unclear whether the material obtained by ABC News included the full exchange.

Sonland, a hotelier and Republican megadonor, contributed over $1 million to the president’s inaugural committee before eventually being nominated and confirmed to be the United States representative to the European Union, serving since July 2018. He has assisted the effort by Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, to contact Ukrainian officials about an investigation, according to Giuliani, who says he briefed Sondland and Volker after his meetings.

In a July 25 call with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President Trump asked the new president to work with Giuliani and Attorney General William Barr to investigate Democratic presidential candidate and former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter, prompting an impeachment inquiry in the House.

(MORE: Kurt Volker resigns as US special envoy to Ukraine)
Volker resigned last Friday as the special envoy for Ukraine. The State Department has previously confirmed that Volker put Giuliani in touch with Zelenskiy's aides at their request, but did not respond to requests for comment Thursday.

(MORE: House Dem calls State Dept IG briefing a relaying of Ukraine 'conspiracy theories')
The texts came just days before the White House released the military assistance to Ukraine -- almost $400 million from the State Department and Pentagon meant to boost the U.S. partner against Russian aggression. That aid was ordered withheld by the White House a week before the call, according to a senior administration official.

In a separate thread between Sondland and Volker directly, the two diplomats discussed contacts with Ukrainian officials and requests for them to open an investigation. On Aug. 13, they appear to be drafting language for Ukrainian officials to announce an investigation into "the problem of interference in the political processes of the United States, especially with the alleged involvement of some Ukrainian politicians."

"I want to declare that this is unacceptable. We intend to initiate and complete a transparent and unbiased investigation of all available facts and episodes, including those involving Burisma and the 2016 U.S. elections, which in turn will prevent the recurrence of this problem in the future," Volker writes, with Sondland responding, "Perfect. Lets send to Andrey after our call."

"Andrey" is an apparent reference to Zelenskiy's aide Andrey Yermak, with whom Volker had put Giuliani in contact.

"Want to know our status on asking them to investigate," Volker said on Aug. 15 of contacting Yermak. Two days later, Sondland asks Volker for an update, and Volkers responds, "I've got nothing. Bill [Taylor] had no info on requesting an investigation -- calling a friend at DOJ (Bruce Schwartz)."

Swartz is the deputy assistant attorney general for the Department of Justice. It's unclear what role he had, if any.

Sondland asks, "Do we still want Ze to give us an unequivocal draft with 2016 and Boresma" -- which could be a reference to the Ukrainian energy company Burisma, where Biden's son Hunter was a board member.

"That's the clear message so far..." Volker responds. "I'm hoping we can put something out there that causes him to respond with that."

Two days after that, Sondland says he has spoken to Yermak and "drove the 'larger issue' home with [him]. Not about just a meeting but the relationship per se." There have been questions about whether Trump was withholding a meeting with Zelenskiy in exchange for an investigation of the Biden's.

The two presidents met the next month during the United Nations General Assembly in New York. During a photo op before the meeting, Zelenskiy told reporters, "Nobody pushed me." Trump jumped in to add, "In other words, no pressure."

Taylor is the latest State Department official to be caught up in this controversy. A career foreign service officer who previously served as ambassador to Ukraine, Taylor has served as the top diplomat in Kyiv since May, when Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch was recalled by the administration. Yovanovitch had been smeared by President Trump’s personal attorney Rudolph Giuliani for months as blocking Ukrainian investigations into corruption -- an allegation the State Department at the time called an "outright fabrication" that "does not correspond to reality."

But Trump referred to Yovanovitch as "bad news" during the controversial July 25 call.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/top-dip ... d=66039011



(I wish ABC would publish the content of the full exchange they obtained, btw. Can't see a reason why you wouldn't.)


Background on Sondland: He "donated $1 million to the inauguration of President Donald Trump, records show, but didn't use his own name. The donations to Trump's inauguration were made through four Oregon and Washington companies connected to Sondland."


Portland hotelier concealed $1 million donation to Trump inauguration
By Gordon R. Friedman | The Oregonian/OregonLive
Updated Jan 09, 2019; Posted Apr 21, 2017

President Donald Trump delivers his inaugural address after being sworn in as the 45th president of the United States during the 58th Presidential Inauguration at the U.S. Capitol in Washington, Friday, Jan. 20, 2017. (Patrick Semansky)
President Donald Trump delivers his inaugural address after being sworn in as the 45th president of the United States during the 58th Presidential Inauguration at the U.S. Capitol in Washington, Friday, Jan. 20, 2017. (Patrick Semansky)

Prominent Portland hotelier Gordon Sondland donated $1 million to the inauguration of President Donald Trump, records show, but didn't use his own name.


Gordon Sondland, CEO of Provenance Hotels.
The donations to Trump's inauguration were made through four Oregon and Washington companies connected to Sondland: BV-2 LLC, Dunson Cornerstone LLC, Buena Vista Investments LLC and Dunson Investments LLC.

Sondland's donations were first reported by news website The Intercept, which connected the dots between the LLCs and Sondland after inaugural donation data was released by government accountability group the Center for Responsive Politics.

Sondland's contributions to Trump came months after he abruptly withdrew from hosting a major Seattle fundraiser for Trump in August following the then-candidate's feud with Khizr and Ghazala Khan, the parents of a Muslim soldier killed in action. Through a spokeswoman, Sondland went to pains at the time to distance himself from his party's standard bearer.

Donations to the inauguration have been scrutinized in recent days through a crowdsourced Twitter campaign maintained by Huffington Post reporter Christina Wilkie.

Sondland is founder and chief executive of Provenance Hotels, which owns or manages several successful Portland hotels, including the Westin Portland, Hotel Lucia, Hotel deLuxe, The Benson, Sentinel and The Heathman Hotel.

A Provenance Hotels spokeswoman did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

Other Oregonians and Oregon-based companies also donated to Trump's inauguration.

Chipmaker Intel gave $500,000, while Robert Freres of logging company Freres Lumber gave $25,000, Pacific Crest Securities chief executive George Glass gave $22,500 and Bill Furman of railcar builder Greenbrier gave $10,000.

-- Gordon R. Friedman


https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/201 ... led_1.html
New NYT scoop adds a crucial detail to this text exchange—Sondland reportedly talked to Trump before he wrote back to the group. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/p ... raine.html


Image
Image

The text message exchange among Taylor, Sondland, and Volker occurred on September 9, 2019, per ABC.

That same day, the ICIG sent his first letter to Burr and Schiff notifying them that the whistleblower’s complaint was being withheld from Congress.

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/ ... 5856735232
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:57 pm

side note
trump’s trade war was about extorting China over the fake Biden scandal
.............

Left unstated in Times piece abt Volker/Sondland memo is that if Zelensky had released it that likely wld have been all the Trumpers ever wanted or needed for validating all their whacko conspiracy theories - Josh Marshall




@ BS

you homies keep your little private thread to yourselves you wouldn't want a girl intruding. I am not afraid of you posting here, I am actually enjoying this day and I like it right where I am you are of course free to keep bumping this thread it's been fun I look forward to the future of this thread, you've been quite inspiring :D

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I do want to emphasize one thing here that may have been overlooked by the homies if you'd like to tell them .....trump/Rudy were pushing the president of Ukraine to sanction the Seth Rich Conspiracy, among other things

anyway we both know the two Biden threads are really very different

I am after the Rudy/trump criminal aspect

and you guys are on the Rudy/trump deflection wave brought to you by the author of ....what for it..................Clinton Cash :lol:

gotta talk about Biden so no one talks about us committing treason :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I guess you are down with trump running all over the planet to get countries to help get dirt on a poltical opponent....extra points if it is Biden :yay

you're getting some of your peanut butter in my jelly FUN TIMES!~

you shouldn't have fibbed about not wanting to read you are doing very well on your first choice Biden thread shame on you for asking me to publish the Cliff Notes for you here :P

not much going on the Biden is a criminal thread so you had to see not read what was happening here?

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER......Mission accomplishing

Is there a German word for when an impeachment inquiry starts to snowball very nearly on the day when the guy you're targeting is overtaken in fundraising and polls?

Do you think trump will have enough time to target Elizabeth Warren now that Biden is on the skids?

then we will have two Warren threads :lol:

so many countries so little time left to commit more crimes while destroying your opponent with the help from foreign countries

by the by do you think Bill CoverUp Barr will bring back some yummy Mifsud yellowcake from the Italian Military? :)

you should ask alloneword in that other Biden thread he keeps up with that part of the story ....he likes posting sanctioned Russian tankers docking in the U.S. so I think he maybe someone you should talk to :)



[SOME OF] WHERE TRUMP WANTS TO GO WITH THE SERVER IN UKRAINE STORY

September 29, 2019/127 Comments/in 2016 Presidential Election, 2020 Presidential Election, Cybersecurity, emptywheel /by emptywheel

As I emphasized in this post, before Trump pushed Volodymyr Zelensky to frame Hunter Biden, he first pressed Ukraine’s president to “get to the bottom” of the “what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine.”

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike … I guess you have one of your wealthy people… The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you are surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible.


Contrary to virtually all the coverage on this, there is reason to believe that Bill Barr can get information from Ukraine that will feed the disinformation about the Russian operation. Trump has obviously been told — and not just by Rudy Giuliani (as Tom Bossert believes) — to ask for this, but some of this is probably part of the disinformation that Russia built in to the operation.

RUDY GIULIANI WANTS TO FRAME ALEXANDRA CHALUPA
This morning, Rudy Giuliani explained that he wants to know who in Ukraine provided information damning to Trump during the 2016 campaign.

GIULIANI: I have never peddled it. Have you ever hear me talk about Crowdstrike? I’ve never peddled it. Tom Bossert doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I have never engaged in any theory that the Ukrainians did the hacking. In fact, when this was first presented to me, I pretty clearly understood the Ukrainians didn’t do the hacking, but that doesn’t mean Ukraine didn’t do anything, and this is where Bossert…

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, why does the president keep repeating it?

GIULIANI: Let’s get on to the point…

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, this was in the phone call.

GIULIANI: I agree with Bossert on one thing, it’s clear: there’s no evidence the Ukrainians did it. I never pursued any evidence and he’s created a red herring. What the president is talking about is, however, there is a load of evidence that the Ukrainians created false information, that they were asked by the Obama White House to do it in January of 2016, information he’s never bothered to go read. There are affidavits that have been out there for five months that none of you have listened to about how there’s a Ukrainian court finding that a particular individual illegally gave the Clinton campaign information. No one wants to investigate that. Nobody cared about it. It’s a court opinion in the Ukraine. The Ukrainians came to me. I didn’t go to them. The Ukrainians came to me and said…

STEPHANOPOULOS: When did they first come to you?

GIULIANI: November of 2016, they first came to me. And they said, we have shocking evidence that the collusion that they claim happened in Russia, which didn’t happen, happened in the Ukraine, and it happened with Hillary Clinton. George Soros was behind it. George Soros’ company was funding it.


This is an effort to frame Alexandra Chalupa, who while working as a DNC consultant in 2016 raised alarms about Paul Manafort. This is an effort that Trump has pursued since 2017 in part with a story first floated to (!!) Ken Vogel, an effort that key propagandist John Solomon was pursuing in May. Remember, too, that Chalupa was hacked separately in 2016, and believed she was being followed.

PETER SMITH’S OPERATION MAY HAVE ASKED FOR HELP FROM A HACKER IN UKRAINE

But per the transcript, this is not about Rudy, it’s about Barr. And even leaving Rudy’s antics aside, there is more that Trump may be after.

First, a fairly minor point, but possibly important. According to Charles Johnson, he advised Peter Smith to reach out to Weev for help finding Hillary’s deleted emails.

Johnson said he also suggested that Smith get in touch with Andrew Auernheimer, a hacker who goes by the alias “Weev” and has collaborated with Johnson in the past. Auernheimer—who was released from federal prison in 2014 after having a conviction for fraud and hacking offenses vacated and subsequently moved to Ukraine—declined to say whether Smith contacted him, citing conditions of his employment that bar him from speaking to the press.


At the time (and still, as far as I know), Weev was living in Ukraine. The Mueller Report says that his investigators never found evidence that Smith or Barbara Ledeen (or Erik Prince or Mike Flynn, who were also key players in this effort) ever contacted Russian hackers.

Smith drafted multiple emails stating or intimating that he was in contact with Russian hackers. For example, in one such email, Smith claimed that, in August 2016, KLS Research had organized meetings with parties who had access to the deleted Clinton emails, including parties with “ties and affiliations to Russia.”286 The investigation did not identify evidence that any such meetings occurred. Associates and security experts who worked with Smith on the initiative did not believe that Smith was in contact with Russian hackers and were aware of no such connection.287 The investigation did not establish that Smith was in contact with Russian hackers or that Smith, Ledeen, or other individuals in touch with the Trump Campaign ultimately obtained the deleted Clinton emails.


Weev is a hacker, but not Russian. So if Smith had reached out to Weev — and if Weev had given him any reason for optimism in finding the emails or even the alleged emails that Ledeen obtained — it might explain why Trump would believe there was information in Ukraine that would help him.

CROWDSTRIKE ONCE CLAIMED ITS CERTAINTY ON RUSSIAN ATTRIBUTION RELATED TO A PROBLEMATIC REPORT ON UKRAINE
But that’s not the CrowdStrike tie.

At least part of the CrowdStrike tie — and what Zelensky actually could feed to Trump — pertains to a report they did in December 2016. They concluded that one of the same tools that was used in the DNC hack had been covertly distributed to Ukrainian artillery units, which (CrowdStrike claimed) led to catastrophic losses in the Ukranian armed forces. When the report came out — amid the December 2016 frenzy as President Obama tried to figure out what to do with Russia given the Trump win — CrowdStrike co-founder Dmitri Alperovitch pitched it as further proof that GRU had hacked the DNC. In other words, according to CrowdStrike, their high confidence on the DNC attribution was tied to their analysis of the Ukrainian malware.

In a now deleted post, infosec researcher Jeffrey Carr raised several problems with the CrowdStrike report. He correctly noted that CrowdStrike vastly overstated the losses to the Ukranian troops, which both an outside analyst and then the Ukranian Defense Ministry corrected. CrowdStrike has since updated its report, correcting the claim about Ukrainian losses, but standing by its analysis that GRU planted this malware as a way to target Ukrainian troops.

Carr also claimed to know of two instances — one, another security company, and the other, a Ukrainian hacker — where the tool was found in the wild.

Crowdstrike, along with FireEye and other cybersecurity companies, have long propagated the claim that Fancy Bear and all of its affiliated monikers (APT28, Sednit, Sofacy, Strontium, Tsar Team, Pawn Storm, etc.) were the exclusive developers and users of X-Agent. We now know that is false.

ESET was able to obtain the complete source code for X-Agent (aka Xagent) for the Linux OS with a compilation date of July 2015. [5]

A hacker known as RUH8 aka Sean Townsend with the Ukrainian Cyber Alliance has informed me that he has also obtained the source code for X-Agent Linux. [11]

Carr argued that since CrowdStrike’s attribution of the DNC hack assumed that only GRU had access to that tool, their attribution claim could no longer be trusted. At the time I deemed Carr’s objections to be worthwhile, but not fatal for the CrowdStrike claim. It was, however, damning for CrowdStrike’s public crowing about attribution of the DNC hack.

Since that time, the denialist crowd has elaborated on theories about CrowdStrike, which BuzzFeed gets just parts of here. Something that will be very critical moving forward but which BuzzFeed did not include, is that the president of CrowdStrike, Shawn Henry, is the guy who (while he was still at FBI) ran the FBI informant who infiltrated Anonymous, Sabu. Because the FBI reportedly permitted Sabu to direct Antisec to hack other countries as a false flag, the denialist theory goes, Henry and CrowdStrike must be willing to launch false flags for their existing clients. [See update below, which makes it clear FBI did not direct this.] The reason I say this will be important going forward is that these events are likely being reexamined as we speak in the grand jury that has subpoenaed both Chelsea Manning and Jeremy Hammond.

So Trump has an incentive to damage not just CrowdStrike’s 2016 reports on GRU, but also CrowdStrike generally. In 2017, Ukraine wanted to rebut the CrowdStrike claim because it made it look bad to Ukranian citizens. But if Trump gives Zelensky reason to revisit the issue, they might up the ante, and claim that CrowdStrike’s claims did damage to Ukraine.

I also suspect Trump may have been cued to push the theory that the GRU tool in question may, indeed, have been readily available and could have been used against the DNC by someone else, perhaps trying to frame Russia.

As I’ve noted, the GRU indictment and Mueller Report list 30 other named sources of evidence implicating the GRU in the hack. That list doesn’t include Dutch hackers at AIVD, which provided information (presumably to the Intelligence Community generally, including the FBI). And it doesn’t include NSA, which Bossert suggested today attributed the hack without anything from CrowdStrike. In other words, undermining the CrowdStrike claims would do nothing to undermine the overall attribution to Russia (though it could be useful for Stone if it came out before his November 5 trial, as the four warrants tied to his false statements relied on CrowdStrike). But it would certainly feed the disinformation effort that has already focused on CrowdStrike.

That’s just part of what Trump is after.

Update: Dell Cameron, who’s one of the experts on this topic, says that public accounts significantly overstate how closely Sabu was being handled at this time. Nevertheless, the perception that FBI (and Henry) encouraged Sabu’s attacks is out there and forms a basis for the claim that CrowdStrike would engage in a false flag attack. Here’s the chatlog showing some of this activity. Hammond got to the Brazilian target by himself.
https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/09/29/s ... ine-story/


the top diplomat in Ukraine was texting in real time that we were withholding security funds to help with Trump's political campaign


Agenthades

Buried lede. That Pete Sessions letter and this part "He had been told" Told by whom?

The 3 subpoenas sent to the Ghouls crew, Parnas, Fruman, and Kislin alluded to a meeting with @PeteSessions around the time he sent that letter to Pompeo.
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https://twitter.com/Agenthades1/status/ ... 8956451840
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:10 am

Trump wanted Ukraine’s president to launch investigations before face-to-face meeting, State Dept. texts show
John Hudson
House investigators released numerous text messages late Thursday night illustrating how senior State Department officials coordinated with the Ukrainian president’s top aide and President Trump’s personal lawyer to leverage a potential summit between the heads of state on a promise from the Ukrainians to investigate the 2016 U.S. election and an energy company that employed the son of 2020 Democratic candidate Joe Biden.

[Read the documents: House Democrats’ letter on State Department texts]

The texts, which former special U.S. envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker provided investigators during a nearly 10-hour deposition Thursday, reveal that officials felt Trump would not agree to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky unless Zelensky promised to launch the investigations — and did so publicly. Although the texts do not mention Biden by name, congressional Democrats leading an impeachment inquiry are pointing to them as clear evidence that Trump conditioned normal bilateral relations with Ukraine on that country first agreeing “to launch politically motivated investigations,” top Democrats said in statement Thursday night.

“heard from White House — assuming President Z convinces trump he will investigate / ‘get to the bottom of what happened’ in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington,” Volker texted Zelensky’s aide, Andrey Yermak, on July 25, hours before Trump and the Ukrainian president spoke via phone. The rough transcript of that conversation was released by the White House last week.

[Whistleblower claimed that Trump abused his office]

Yet two weeks after that call, the president still had not agreed to meet with Zelensky — and administration officials sought to convince the Ukrainians that Trump would need a public pledge before agreeing to the meeting, according to the text messages.

“I think potus really wants the deliverable,” U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland texted to Volker on Aug. 9, noting that Zelensky might give a news conference announcing his intent to investigate. “To avoid misunderstandings, might be helpful to ask Andrey for a draft statement (embargoed) so that we can see exactly what they propose to cover.”

By the next day, the Ukrainians had agreed to announce their plans to carry out Trump’s investigations alongside the date for a meeting between the two heads of state, the messages indicate.

“Once we have a date, will call for a press briefing, announcing upcoming visit and outlining vision for the reboot of US-UKRAINE relationship, including among other things Burisma and election meddling in investigations,” Yermak texted Volker on Aug. 10. Hunter Biden, the former vice president’s son, sat on the board of Burisma for five years.

But Trump never committed to a meeting. And as the United States resisted giving Zelensky an audience with Trump, administration officials’ discussions suggest the White House was issuing an escalating series of demands.

“Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?” U.S. Charges D’affaires in Ukraine William B. “Bill” Taylor texted to Sondland on Sept. 1, after Trump skipped a trip to Poland where he was meant to visit with Zelensky. Sondland swiftly moved the conversation from text messages to a phone call.

“As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign,” Taylor later texted Sondland on Sept. 9, complaining that the Trump administration’s decision to withhold congressionally approved military aid to Ukraine had already created a “nightmare scenario.”

“The president has been crystal clear no quid pro quo’s of any kind,” Sondland replied. “The president is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that president zelensky promised during his campaign I suggest we stop the back and forth by text.”

Sondland declined to comment through an attorney, Jim McDermott. Volker did not respond to requests for comment. The State Department did not immediately respond to messages, nor did the White House.

The abrupt end to the texts mirrors the current political climate on Capitol Hill, where Democrats and Republicans are fiercely divided over whether Trump’s efforts to pressure Zelensky into investigating Burisma and the 2016 elections were proper diplomacy or an abuse of power.

House Intelligence Committee member Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.) told reporters Thursday that Volker had provided “ample evidence” to show that it was a “requirement” that Zelensky launch the 2016 elections investigation to “exonerate Russia’s role,” and that the focus on Burisma was to investigate Biden. “That was an understood predicate for the meeting,” Swalwell said.

But House Republicans emerged from Volker’s day-long deposition saying that nothing Volker had said damaged the president and that there was no proof Trump had sought a quid pro quo. Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), one of Trump’s most aggressive defenders, said on Twitter that “the facts we learned today from Ambassador Volker undercut the salacious narrative that @RepAdamSchiff is using to sell his impeachment ambitions.”

Schiff, a California Democrat, is chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and leading the impeachment inquiry.

Volker is the first of several State Department officials expected to give congressional investigators an inside account of the Trump administration’s efforts to press for a Ukrainian investigation of Biden, who, as a leading 2020 Democratic candidate to challenge Trump for the White House, has become a fixed target of the president’s attacks.

At the heart of Trump’s effort is the contention of his personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, that as vice president, Biden pushed for the firing of Ukraine’s then-prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin, as part of a corrupt plot to halt investigations of Burisma.

Volker told House investigators on Thursday that he had warned Giuliani against trusting the information he was receiving from Ukrainian political figures about Joe Biden and his son. He said he tried to caution Giuliani that his Ukrainian sources were unreliable and that he should be careful about putting faith in their theories, according to people who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the closed-door meeting.

But the texts show that Volker also introduced Giuliani to Yermak, so that the two could speak on July 22 and better facilitate direct contacts between Trump and Zelensky.

Zelensky was “sensitive about Ukraine being taken seriously, not merely as an instrument in Washington domestic, reelection politics,” Taylor had texted Sondland on July 21. Sondland replied that he was more “worried about the alternative” if Trump and Zelensky did not speak to “get the conversation started and the relationship built.”

“Most impt is for Zelensky to say that he will help the investigation,” Volker had informed Sondland on July 19, according to the text messages.

Giuliani had been “advocating” for Trump and Zelensky to speak by phone on July 25, Volker’s texts show. In an interview Thursday night, Giuliani said he also knew of conversations between U.S. and Ukrainian officials about a statement that would commit the Ukrainian president to investigate Burisma. But he insisted that “to my knowledge, it was never put out.”

Giuliani also said that he “did not recall” ever being told by Volker that his claims were spurious. “I’m pretty certain he never said that the claims weren’t true, because I would have jumped all over him and asked him what kind of investigation he’d done and how he knew that,” Giuliani said of Volker.

Joe Biden and his defenders have denied Giuliani’s accusations and noted that Biden’s push to remove Shokin, Ukraine’s former prosecutor general, was part of a broader international effort that included the European Union and the International Monetary Fund, where leaders viewed Shokin as inept.

Volker also told lawmakers Thursday that he and other State Department officials cautioned the Ukrainians to steer clear of U.S. politics. Getting involved, he said he told them, would open the nation to allegations that it was interfering in an American election and could be detrimental to Ukraine long-term, according to the people familiar with his testimony.

House investigators asked Volker whether efforts to pressure the Ukrainians included withholding a ­leader-level meeting with Zelensky and about $400 million in military aid from the country, those familiar with the meeting said.

Volker acknowledged, these people said, that the Trump administration had extended an invitation to Zelensky shortly after his election in the spring and that it was later withdrawn. Volker told House investigators that Trump’s delay in meeting Zelensky and the decision to halt military aid deeply concerned Ukrainian officials, who view Washington as a critical ally against Russia, the people familiar with his testimony said.

[Trump ordered hold on military aid days before calling Ukrainian president, officials say]

Volker said Thursday that he was never given an explanation about the aid suspension.

Volker started his job at the State Department in 2017 in an unusual part-time arrangement that allowed him to continue consulting at BGR, a powerful lobbying firm that represents Ukraine and the U.S.-based defense firm Raytheon. During his tenure, Volker advocated for the United States to send Raytheon-manufactured antitank Javelin missiles to Ukraine — a decision that made Raytheon millions of dollars. BGR has said Volker recused himself from all Ukraine-related matters in response to criticisms about conflicts of interest.

On Thursday afternoon, the State Department announced that it had approved the sale of 150 additional Javelin missiles to Ukraine for up to $39.2 million and notified Congress.

Volker also kept his job as executive director of the McCain Institute, an affiliation that may explain why Volker never penetrated Trump’s inner circle, given the president’s open disdain for Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who died last year.

Previously, Volker served as the U.S. ambassador to NATO during the George W. Bush administration.

Mike DeBonis, Karen DeYoung, Tim Elfrink and Dan Lamothe contributed to this report.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html


These Ukrainian soldiers were killed in August 2019, while President Trump was withholding congressionally voted military aid to pressure Ukraine to exonerate Russia and defame his political opponents


72 Ukrainian soldiers killed in Russia’s war this year
Published Aug. 30. Updated Aug. 30 at 6:18 pm

This photo, released by JFO press-service, shows Ukrainian soldiers, fighting fire on their own near Shyrokyne and Berdianske on June 30, 2019.
As Ukrainian authorities hope to revive peace talks with Russia, the death toll for Ukrainian troops killed in action keeps growing.

Since the start of the year, at least 72 Ukrainian soldiers – 29 of them in summer alone – have been killed in the Donbas, according to the Kyiv Post count based on military and media reports.

The overall death toll for Ukrainian military killed in action since hostilities began in 2014 has reached 3,009 soldiers as of Aug. 29.

After getting elected in April, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has called for a four-way meeting with Russia, Germany, and France, known as the Normandy format. Moscow has said there is interest in renewing peace discussions, but no date has been set. On Aug. 26, French President Emmanuel Macron said the leaders of the four countries will hold talks in September aimed at ending the conflict in eastern Ukraine.

More than 13,000 people have been killed in the Donbas conflict since hostilities started in April 2014, when Russian-backed separatists took up arms against government forces in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. Some 1.5 million people have been internally displaced, the largest migration of people on the European continent since World War II.

Below is the list of those known to have been killed in action from June till August.

June:

Eduard Lazarev, 48, a soldier of the 17th Tank Brigade. He was born in Russia but his parents moved to Lviv Oblast when he was little. His fellow soldier Anatoliy Prokazyuk recalled that Lazarev asked his military enlistment office to be sent to the Donbas. On June 4, Lazarev was driving a military vehicle to deliver food to his military unit when an anti-tank guided missile hit them. Lazarev’s death was instant. “He was very brave, patriotic. Despite his Russian name, he loved Ukraine very much and tried to protect it from enemies,” Prokazyuk said.

Lazarev leaves a wife, a daughter and grandchildren in Lviv Oblast.

Oleksandr Lyn, 48, a soldier of the 17th Tank Brigade from Dnipropetrovsk Oblast. Lyn used to work at Kryvorizhstal, Ukraine’s largest integrated steel company, located in the Ukrainian city of Kryvyi Rih for 30 years. He decided to join the army at the beginning of 2019. Lyn was killed together with his fellow soldier Eduard Lazarev when an anti-tank guided missile hit their military vehicle near Novoselivka Druha village in Donetsk Oblast. “He was like an older brother to us, always supportive, always tried to cheer up,” said Lyn’s fellow soldier who asked to be referred by his first name Serhiy.

Lym leaves a wife and two daughters – 26-years-old and 14-years-old.

Vladyslav Berezhniy, 22, a soldier of the 54th mechanized brigade from Luhansk Oblast. He joined the army when he was 18. In March 2018, in an interview Berezhniy said that he “decided to become a soldier when he saw what’s going on in the country.” He told the journalists his family “had always been pro-Ukrainian and we didn’t want our city and Donbas to turn Russian.” He dreamt that all the occupied territories would return under Ukraine’s control and there “would be a Ukrainian flag flying over them,” he was quoted as saying.

Berezhniy was killed by a sniper on June 5 near the village Zolote in his native Luhansk Oblast. He leaves a wife and two-year-old son in Popasna.

Dmytro Pruhlo, 28, a soldier of Azov Special Battalion from Poltava. In 2014, Pruhlo volunteered to the army and joined Azov Battalion. He took part in all the major battles of his battalion. “He never gave up. He was respected by all. I never saw him confused or scared,” Pruhlo’s fellow soldier who goes by nom-de-guerre Podvoh said. “Although we all went to war in 2014, with no experience, he behaved as if it was no longer his first war. He always knew what was going on around him. Older fellow soldiers could always seek his advice or help.”

Pruhlo was killed with his fellow soldier Maksym Oleksyuk on June 7 near the village of Novoluhanske, Donetsk Oblast, when Russia-backed separatists opened fire on the Ukrainian army positions. He leaves a wife and a mother.

Maksym Oleksyuk, 23, a soldier of the Azov Battalion of the National Guard of Ukraine from Vinnytsia Oblast. Oleksyuk joined the army in June 2016. “He was a modest boy,” Oleksyuk’s relative Hryhoriy Shvets was quoted as saying. “I will always remember our last meeting – he was working in the garden with his father last year and I asked him when shall we think about (his) wedding. He just looked at me, smiled and said nothing. Later I learned that he had signed a contract to join the army.”

Oleksyuk died on June 7 near the village of Novoluhanske, Donetsk Oblast, when Russia-backed separatists opened fire on the Ukrainian army positions. According to Oleksyuk’s fellow soldier who goes by nom-de-guerre Biliy (Ukrainian for White), Oleksyuk didn’t have to go on the positions that night but he wanted to help his comrades. “He was one of those people whom you can’t keep on the home front,” Biliy said.

Oleksyuk leaves a mother and a brother.

Image

Oleksandr Lyashok, 24, a soldier of the 137th Naval Infantry Battalion from Kirovohrad Oblast. As soon as Lyashok graduated high school in 2013 he joined the Armed Forces of Ukraine under a contract. It was a few months before the start of the EuroMaidan Revolution. He signed a new contract in April 2019 after had been serving in the army for six years. Lyashok was killed by shrapnel after the shootout that took place in early hours of June 19 near the town of Novotroitske in Donetsk Oblast.

“He was a joyful friend, young and optimistic who will always remain a 24-years-old,” Lyashok’s fellow soldiers wrote on the page in social media.

He leaves a mother and two brothers in Kirovohrad Oblast.

Anatoliy Sorochynsky, 30, a soldier of the 24th mechanized brigade from Lviv. He used to serve at Aidar Battalion from 2015 until the end of 2017. On June 22, Sorochynsky died after stepping on a landmine near the village of Olenivka in Donetsk Oblast. However, the intensive shootout prevented his fellow soldiers from retrieving his body. After two days, the volunteers of the humanitarian project of the Armed Forces of Ukraine ‘Evacuation 200′ found Sorochynsky’s body. “Anatoliy died as a true soldier,” his brigade reported. “Until the last minute, he didn’t put his firearms down – that’s how he was found.”

Oleksiy Karlash, 26, a soldier of the 54th mechanized brigade from Kyiv Oblast. He graduated from a college at Ukrainian State University of Food Technologies and managed to bake cakes for his fellow soldiers even on frontlines. Karlash joined the army in summer 2014. Between the rotations he worked at Kyiv restaurants as a cook. His last rotation was scheduled till July. On June 19 he was fatally wounded in head when Russia-backed separatists opened fire at the Ukrainian army positions near Popasna, Donetsk Oblast. Karlash died in the hospital without regaining consciousness. He leaves a mother and a brother.

July:

Serhiy Mayboroda, 47, a soldier of the 36th Separate Coastal Defence Brigade from Donetsk Oblast. He was killed on July 1 when Russia-backed fighters opened fire on medical Humvee which Mayboroda was driving back to the home lines bringing a wounded fellow soldier to his unit’s positions. He leaves a wife and two children.

Iryna Shevchenko, 48, a soldier of the 36th Separate Coastal Defence Brigade from Kherson Oblast. Until 2015 before joining the brigade, she volunteered bringing equipment and medical supplies to the Ukrainian soldiers. She was killed together with fellow soldier Serhiy Mayboroda when Russia-backed fighters opened fire on their medical Humvee. She leaves a sister in Kherson.

Eduard Loboda, 25, a soldier of the 24th mechanized brigade from Sumy Oblast. Loboda, as a sapper, led a group of scouts, passing through a so-called “gray zone” near Maryinka, Donetsk Oblast. On July 3, the group carried out a combat mission to counter enemy enemy aircraft. The explosion struck unexpectedly as the mine was supplied with the latest motion sensors. Loboda had covered his fellow soldiers. He was immediately taken to hospital, but his injuries were incompatible with life. Loboda leaves a parents and younger brother who serves in the 27th brigade.

Oleh Zhukov, 43, a soldier of the 54th Brigade from Donetsk Oblast. He was killed by a sniper on July 4 near the Vilniy village in Luhansk Oblast. He leaves a mother and a brother in Kramatorsk.

Image

Vladyslav Loktionov, 42, a soldier of the 53rd Brigade from Dnipropetrovsk Oblast. He joined the army for the first time in 2015 and served in the 92nd mechanized brigade until May 2016 when he was taken prisoner by Russia-backed separatists. He spent almost two years in captivity until the prisoners swap that took place in December 2017 when Ukraine handed over about 300 captives to pro-Russian separatists and took back around 70 soldiers.

After treatment and rehabilitation, Loktionov signed a contract with the Armed Forces and returned to the front again. On the evening of July 7, militants fired on positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces near the village of Yuzhne in Donetsk Oblast. Loktionov had no chance to survive after being hit by an enemy mine. He leaves a mother and a son he had been raising himself.

Anton Faka, 21, a soldier of the 406th Separate Artillery Brigade of Ukraine’s Naval Forces from Mykolaiv Oblast. He was killed near the village Hranitne in Donetsk Oblast on July 10. Faka leaves his parents and a brother.

Oleksandr Kolodyazhniy, 45, a soldier of the 74th Battalion from Dnipropetrovsk Oblast. He was killed after stepping on a landmine near Maryinka in Donetsk Oblast. He leaves a mother and a son.
Image
Volodymyr Salitra, 29, a soldier of the 24th mechanized brigade from Lviv Oblast. He was killed by a sniper on July 11 near Taramchuk village in Donetsk Oblast. He leaves a brother and a sister.

Dmytro Lisovol, 31, a soldier of the 92nd mechanized brigade from Kyiv Oblast. He was fatally wounded by a sniper near Avdiyivka in Donetsk Oblast on July 15 and died later in a military hospital. He leaves a wife, a son and a daughter.

Bohdan Bihus, 28, a soldier of the 8th Special Regiment of Special Purpose Detachment of the National Guard. Bihus was born in Khmelnytsky. He joined the National Guard in 2014. On July 18, he was killed as a result of a blast. He leaves a wife and two children.

Oleksandr Bardalym, 33, a soldier of the 24th Brigade from Cherkasy Oblast. he was killed by a sniper on July 19 as he was trying to evacuate his wounded fellow soldier. He leaves a wife and a son.

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Roman Dzhereleiko, 31, a soldier of the 24th Brigade from Khmelnytskiy Oblast. On the evening of July 19, he was carrying out engineering work to reinforce his unit positions in the Maryinka area when a sniper shot him. A military doctor tended to him but Dzhereleiko died later in a Kurakhove hospital from blood loss. He leaves a wife and a son.

Semen Rumyhin, 21, a soldier of the 25th Brigade from Dnipro. He joined the army in early 2019 and died as he stepped on a landmine near the town Shchastya trying to rescue his wounded fellow soldier. He leaves his parents in Dnipro.

Mykyta Skitchenko, 19, a soldier of the 25th Brigade from Luhansk Oblast. He died as he stepped on a landmine near the town Shchastya. Skitchenko was the only son.



August:

Oleksandr Sharko, 30, a soldier of the 36th Separate Coastal Defence Brigade from Chernihiv Oblast. He joined the army in 2017. On the morning of Aug. 6, four marines were killed while doing engineering work to equip the positions of their unit near the village of Pavlopil in the south of Donetsk Oblast. Sharko was killed as a result of hostile shelling and explosion injuries, which were incompatible with life. He leaves his parents.

Vladyslav Rak, 20, a soldier of the 36th Separate Coastal Defence Brigade from Chernihiv Oblast. He joined the army when he was 18. Rak was one of the four marines killed during engineering work to equip the positions of their unit near the village of Pavlopil in the south of Donetsk Oblast. He leaves his parents, sister and a brother.

Serhiy Shandra, 24, a soldier of the 36th Separate Coastal Defence Brigade from Vinnytsia Oblast. He was enlisted in the army in 2018. Shandra was one of the four marines killed during engineering work to equip the positions of their unit near the village of Pavlopil in the south of Donetsk Oblast. He leaves a mother and a sister.

Vasyl Kurdov, 20, a soldier of the 36th Separate Coastal Defence Brigade from Mykolaiv Oblast. Kurdov was the youngest among the four marines who were killed on Aug. 6 during engineering work to equip the positions of their unit near the village of Pavlopil in Donetsk Oblast. Kurdov turned 20 in May. He leaves his parents and two younger brothers.

Roman Romanenko, 25, a soldier of Azov Battalion of the National Guard of Ukraine. Since the end of 2015, he was serving as a sniper. Romanenko was killed on Aug. 10 as a result of blasting at the Svitlodarska Duha bulge in Donbas.

Vasyl Yevstyhneyev, 38, a soldier of the 72nd mechanized brigade from Kirovohrad Oblast. He was killed when Russia-backed fighters opened fire at the Ukrainian army positions near the village of Vilniy in Luhansk Oblast.

Tykhon Kurbatov, 26, a soldier of the 24th Brigade from Luhansk Oblast. He was enlisted in the army in 2013 and in two years signed the contract to continue his service. In May 2019, Kurbatov was awarded a medal “For military service.” He was killed as a result of a shootout near the village of Shumy in Donetsk Oblast. He leaves his parents and a sister.

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politi ... reloaded=1
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Republican Conspiracy Theory Biden-in-Ukraine

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:00 am

Michael Weiss


NEW: Text messages from Kurt Volker (US Special Envoy to Ukraine), Bill Taylor (top US diplomat in Kyiv), Gordon Sondland (US ambo to EU), Andriy Yermak (advisor to Zelensky).
1. Taylor relays Z’s reluctance to become “instrument in Washington domestic, reelection politics.”
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2. Here Volker clearly establishes that the upcoming phone call between Trump and Zelensky is meant to include the latter’s promise to chase up the conspiracy theory of Ukrainian interference in 2016. Precondition for Z/Trump WH meeting.

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3. Zelensky aide Yermak here makes clear that investigating Burisma and “election meddling” was indeed part and parcel of “reboot of US-Ukraine relationship.”


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4. Bill Taylor, US charge d’affairs in Kyiv, asks explicitly if US military aid is contingent on Ukrainian investigations into Burisma/2016 election interference. US ambo to EU tells him to “call me.”

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Tim Bryant

Replying to @michaeldweiss
He admitted to being part of the political hit job of the US Ambassador


Replying to @michaeldweiss @Susan_Hennessey
This was BEFORE Zelensky learned - from a Politico article - that Trump was withholding the military aid.


Hudson

Replying to @michaeldweiss
1-it's bipartisan US policy to insist on cooperation with *thorough* 2016 election probe

2-Also a corruption prosecution treaty w Ukraine
https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/statu ... 3489981446




Big Trump/Ukraine Document Dump, Annotated

Josh Marshall

Wicked abuse of office burn
Image


2/ a number of quid pro quos. Here’s one.

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3/ the president really wanted “the deliverable”

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4/ Ukraines agree in principle to announce investigations of Biden and 2016 UKR/dnc collusion but want to make sure first they have a confirmed date for Trump meeting.

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5/ more discussion of quid pro quo #1, get the White House meeting for Biden investigation and dnc/Ukraine collusion probe.

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6/ Trump state department officials agree on language President of Ukraine will use to announce investigation of Biden company and Ukraine/DNC collusion.

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7/ Ukraine learns that Trump has upped the ante. Career diplo Taylor asks Trump megadonor Sondland to confirm existence of new quid pro quo. Arms for election interference.

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8/ career diplo worries that Ukraine will be forced to exonerate Russia for election interferences and accuse themselves and then still get stiffed by Trump on the guns.

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9/ Career diplo Taylor says he thinks guns for election interference deal is terrible but mainly wants to make sure Ukraine gets the guns. Megadonor Sondland says it is what it is. No more discussion on text. If Taylor has issues take it up with the brass at a foggy Bottom.

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10/ So to sum up, Trump’s whole Europe/Ukraine team spent months, along with Rudy, trying to get Ukraine to publicly announce investigations of Bidens and exonerate Russia of election interference in exchange for White House meeting and guns.
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1179 ... -annotated
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
User avatar
seemslikeadream
 
Posts: 32090
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