US Presidential Election 2020

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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:05 pm

Karmamatterz » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:52 am wrote:
Also, if you're going to attribute it to me, I usually go with the 100% undeniable idea of a publicly announced presidential coup d'etat attempt, enacted by a fascist-recruited mob he personally invited to DC for this explicit purpose and then dispatched to the Capitol after ginning them up with a live televised speech.


It was theater, and the pathetic joke of congressional "hearings" are all theater as well.

When there is virtually no difference between the liberal fascist Democrats and conservative fascist Republicans why split so many hairs and worry? Maybe you think the conservatives smell bad or don't bark the way you like, but they are all of the same cloth. We're in this Matrix together Jack, whether you like it or not. Now let's build back better and ride that great reset pony into the sunset!


Re: the bit quoted from JR: "100% undeniable idea of a publicly announced presidential coup d'etat attempt, enacted by a fascist-recruited mob he personally invited to DC for this explicit purpose and then dispatched to the Capitol after ginning them up with a live televised speech".

I agree with much of this, except I don't for an instant believe Trump had genuine interest/intent in carrying out a coup d'etat. He was, however, playing his part.
Theater, as KM indicates.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby Karmamatterz » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:05 pm

The whole idea of a coup or insurrection in the U.S. in the manner which the largely peaceful protest ( :yay ) took place is laughable. To actually think that group of folks was going to initiate a coup gives me belly laughs.
Was the "shaman" guy going to rain down fire and brimestone with his staff and get the entire U.S. military to lay down and do nothing? Would the FBI agents embedded join in the fray? Not to mention the national guard in 50 states? Good lord, just think of the large obstacles to overcome and REALLY have a successful coup in the USA.

No, the coup is OVER, has been for years. 9/11 sealed the deal and the Patriot Act was icing on the cake for their "legal" justification to punish those who step out of line. Pharma and military/intel corps are creating their new bio-security state which is a silent coup, one that people will embrace and beg for, like those fucking worthless masks.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:01 pm

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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:37 pm

Karmamatterz » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:05 am wrote:The whole idea of a coup or insurrection in the U.S. in the manner which the largely peaceful protest ( :yay ) took place is laughable. To actually think that group of folks was going to initiate a coup gives me belly laughs.
Was the "shaman" guy going to rain down fire and brimestone with his staff and get the entire U.S. military to lay down and do nothing? Would the FBI agents embedded join in the fray? Not to mention the national guard in 50 states? Good lord, just think of the large obstacles to overcome and REALLY have a successful coup in the USA.

No, the coup is OVER, has been for years. 9/11 sealed the deal and the Patriot Act was icing on the cake for their "legal" justification to punish those who step out of line. Pharma and military/intel corps are creating their new bio-security state which is a silent coup, one that people will embrace and beg for, like those fucking worthless masks.


The cops that testified before Congress did not appear to think it was largely a peaceful protest.

Think the basic concept by Trump was to have cause to declare martial law, void the election, and have various lowlifes in place to retain control. Of course the day was planned and performed poorly.

Agree that 9-11 was staged and basically ended the idealized image of the USA and we are no longer anything close to a democracy.

I am pretty much of the perception in that multiple parties are causing chaos, sometimes at odds otherwise converging interests, to better their position when global population crashes. They want the population to crash. Things do not look so great for humanity.

Getting hard to breathe there are so many stupid people of ill will in the USA. RI disappoints me as well.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:56 pm

.
..surely the police officers can't ever be compromised, particularly during testimony, is that right Puf?
Can you consider reasons a protest loses its 'peace'? It can be for organic reasons, of course -- the cause for the protest can be contentious; emotions can boil over. Why else, though? Could there be bad actors in the mix? Could there be other controlling factors at play? Has any of this been raised, at all, in establishment media?

Interesting, the selective scrutiny on display.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby PufPuf93 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:29 pm

Belligerent Savant » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:56 pm wrote:.
..surely the police officers can't ever be compromised, particularly during testimony, is that right Puf?
Can you consider reasons a protest loses its 'peace'? It can be for organic reasons, of course -- the cause for the protest can be contentious; emotions can boil over. Why else, though? Could there be bad actors in the mix? Could there be other controlling factors at play? Has any of this been raised, at all, in establishment media?

Interesting, the selective scrutiny on display.


That explains the cops, Crisis Actors.

Some protestors came armed to the protest and then used their weapons. The reason for the protest was the Big Lie that Trump won the election.

Are you suggesting I have selective scrutiny?
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:41 am

Thursday, July 29, 2021

An Evangelical Christian Perspective on January 6

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God. Matthew 5:9, NRSV

One of the doctrinal tenets that Evangelical Christians hold in common is the belief that the Bible is a divinely inspired, written revelation of God to humanity. One of the best expressions of Evangelical belief regarding the sixty-six books of the Bible is found in the Baptist Faith and Message 2000:

The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of the Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is himself the focus of divine revelation.

You would not find much deviation among other conservative Evangelicals when it comes to this definition. You may find the terms "verbal, plenary inspiration" used in some statements, which means they are declaring their belief that the very words of scripture were inspired, and that the whole of scripture in the accepted canon, the sixty-six books of the Bible used by most Protestant Christians without the apocrypha. For the sake of this discussion, this specific doctrinal statement will serve as a reference point.

The Trump Insurrection of January 6, 2021

Many of those who participated in the mob that attacked the Capitol on January 6 self-identified as Christians. Some carried banners or wore t-shirts or clothing indicating their beliefs. Many of Trump's core base of supporters are white, conservative Evangelical Christians along with several individuals considered to be leaders within various segments of the movement, though none of those individuals were present in Washington on January 6.

There is plenty of evidence to indicate that those who self-identified by using Christian symbols, banners and clothing participated in the violence against the police protecting the Capitol building. It's visible in most of the video footage shot outside and inside the Capitol. If you believe the Bible is "the supreme standard by which all human conduct should be tried" then where do you find support in scripture for such behavior? Where does the Bible provide justification for someone committing violence, attacking the civil government and those who are protecting it? Where is the Biblical justification of the cause of the violence that day?

There is no Biblical justification for any follower of Christ to participate in the kind of mob violence that was taking place on January 6th.

I am seeing, in some Evangelical contexts, attempts to re-interpret or re-apply specific scripture passages and turn them away from their intended context into justification for those who participated in the January 6 Trump Insurrection. Doing so requires taking the passage out of its context without any evidence or justification to do so, something that Evangelicals are prone to do if it helps make a point. That approach shows a bit of contempt for the intelligence of those to whom they are speaking. I've always been taught that interpreting the scripture requires discerning the intention of the original author by interpreting the words in their original language, understanding the context of the situation in which the words were being delivered and figuring out how to apply the content in the context of the church and the culture in which we now live. But a lot of the preaching and teaching I hear these days from many politically engaged Evangelical preachers goes backwards, attempting to take political themes and "worldviews" and find scripture to fit them. That doesn't work with what the church's two major apostles had to say on this issue.

Both Paul, in Romans 13:1-7 and Peter, in 1 Peter 2:13-17 make strong statements about the position of Christians in relation to the civil government and neither of those statements advocates insurrection against it, even though it was pagan and evil and would eventually persecute the church and make martyrs out of many of its leaders. The testimony of Christians who suffered through persecution was one of the main reasons why so many people turned to Christ during this period of time. And it was protecting that testimony that prompted the inspired words of these two Apostles.

For it is God's will that by doing right you should silence the ignorance of the foolish. I Peter 2:15

The issue for Peter here is character. It would be inconsistent to be seen as an insurrectionist, a rebel against the authorities, and at the same time be an example of Christian character. Christians were often maligned because of what they believed, but Peter encourages and instructs them to live the kind of life that sets an example of righteousness which makes it hard to prove accusations of wrongdoing.

Conduct yourselves honorably among the Gentiles so that, though they malign you as evildoers, they may see your honorable deeds and glorify God when he comes to judge. I Peter 2:12, NRSV

The words of Paul in Romans chapter 13 are set in a similar context. Paul is writing to Christians in Rome about the importance of character in the witness of their testimony to their faith in Christ. He wanted them to stand out as a group against the pagan culture in which they lived, not in an arrogant way, but to show the kind of life that faith in Christ produced in individual character as well as how a community of fellow believers behaved. They were not people who, because of their religious practices, should be feared by their neighbors, but welcomed by them because their presence was a blessing to the community.

If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Romans 12:18.

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:21

Paul certainly knew that it was not easy to live the kind of life expected of believers in Christ in the middle of the pagan Roman society. Many of those to whom he was writing in the church at Rome were not just converted Jews, but were from among the local population which was a diverse mix of people from just about everywhere, including those who had been born and raised in Rome. Christians needed to be trusted by those around them, not seen as insurrectionists and subversives. Romans 12, preceding what Paul wrote about the civil authorities, is a whole description of the marks of a Christian.

That's what the two most prominent Apostles in the early Christian church believed and wrote, according to Evangelicals by the complete inspiration of the Holy Spirit, so it has not changed since those apostles wrote those words. Among Evangelical Christians, a branch of Protestant Christianity not gathered into a single church or denomination but made up of a cluster of denominations, fellowships, mission-support groups and thousands of non-denominational, independent churches, the local church is the most visible expression of the Christian gospel. So the church must be seen as a church, an "ecclesia," a spiritual body centered on Christ as the resolution of humanity's sin. It has been subverted if it is seen as a radical, revolutionary agent for political change. And the conversion it seeks is spiritual transformation, not political revolution.

The church is instructed to avoid divisive, controversial issues that don't pertain directly to the practice of the faith. "You are the salt of the earth; You are the light of the world", quotes from Jesus in the gospel of Matthew 5:13, 14 states that the church's purpose is to give glory to God through its visible good works. He compares the church losing the essence of its testimony and message to salt losing its taste. It becomes good for nothing, gets thrown out and trampled on.

America does not have a state church or a state endorsed religious belief. That's at the very core of the Constitution's principle of religious freedom. The church can have an influence on government through its visible good works and even through the involvement of its members. There's nothing wrong with that. But there can't be an expectation that the government, influenced by the church, will advance its mission and purpose. The gospel must be accepted individually, by conviction of the Holy Spirit. Righteousness cannot be legislated. It must be lived out of conviction and gratitude.

The images of individuals in Jesus T-shirts, carrying banners with crosses and displaying "Jesus saves" signs, attacking police, breaking out windows, busting down doors and invading the Capitol are not evidence of the church's "visible good works." The entire event was correctly labelled as an insurrection, a violent assault on the government of the United States, a rebellion with the intent to disrupt a constitutional duty, do harm to members of Congress who were carrying it out, a criminal act for which those who have been identified as participants up to this point have been charged. Christians who were there cannot distance themselves from the activities taking place that were a total violation of the scripture they claim is inerrant and infallible, and the antithesis of the expectations of God for his people through the words of the Apostles. It's clear they weren't "tourists" or passive observers. Video evidence shows most of them engaging as violently as any in the mob. And that kind of behavior is, according to scripture accepted by Evangelicals as inerrant and infallble, antithetical to followers of Jesus.

There is the additional problem of the fact that the whole seditious insurrection was based on a lie. By January 6, it was pretty clear that the election results were legitimate, there was no evidence of fraud and no indication at all that the election had been stolen.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Exodus 20:9, ESV

It is your responsibility to make sure that the words you speak are truthful, not your preferred media source's responsibility. Claiming that there was "massive voter fraud" and that the election had been "stolen" from Donald Trump is a lie. There is not a scrap of evidence--a ballot, a counting machine, an election observer who was a Trump supporter--proving that there was any fraud in the election. Believing and repeating a lie just makes you a liar. So the Christian response, in consideration of the inerrant, infallible scripture, would be silence if you choose to continue to believe what is not true, and taking responsibility to set the record straight with the facts if you paid attention to the Apostles' teaching on the subject.

Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that shall he also reap. Galatians 6:7 ESV

Grace and Truth to You

In a general Evangelical Christian "worldview," the primary problem of humanity is sin against God. The ultimate resolution of all of the problems of humanity is redemption from that sin through Christ. The confession list for those Christians who exposed the identify of their faith and then waded in to support an insurrection, including violence that led to the death of five people, and the venting of hatred and evil based on a lie, is going to be a long one.

Whoever says, "I know Him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. I John 2:4 ESV

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9, ESV

During one of the greatest persecutions ever brought against the church, for more than 200 years under the successive rule of some of the most cruel, evil men ever to serve in ancient world government, the church never participated in an insurrection aimed at overthrowing the government or a rebellion aimed at fighting against it. It continued to pursue its mission and purpose, living righteously in the middle of a pagan culture. It was a position that caused people to take notice of them, putting them in a position to hear their testimony and come to redemption through the gospel of Christ. Instead of being wiped out by persecution, the church experienced revival, in terms of impact on the world, greater than any that has happened since. It succeeded in bringing about a change in the government, conquering by transformational and spiritual change, not by violence.

So put down your sword. You're not going to bring revival to the United States, or fulfill the purpose of the church to glorify God by overthrowing the government. It's not going to come about by making deals with a President who celebrates his immorality, uses it to enhance his personal fame and uses the benefit he gets from your support to do more of it. And no matter how you have personally evaluated the "worldview" of the other side, they're not stopping you from carrying out the mission and purpose of the church, which is glorifying God and testifying to his grace and truth through the redemptive message of the Gospel of Jesus.

Get away from the politics that makes you blame the other side, and stop using them as an excuse for why you're not doing what the scripture says you should be doing, and you might actually see a revival.

https://signalpress.blogspot.com/2021/0 ... ve-on.html
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:48 am

.

Consider what’s going on in Arizona with the election investigation as a one example among hundreds. Does the state -as legally required- pursue this investigation to what is very likely a conclusion that at least they certified in partial error (with the strong implication that there was even more fraud than is usual for an American election, which are known internationally to be notoriously fraudulent)? This would set the shitlibs aflame with yet more twitter histrionics and lead to their further departure from reality. Or does the state abandon the investigation and instead set aflame the Trumpist hold-outs leading to their further departure from reality? Which fifteen percent of the population would you like to drive permanently off the deep end? You have to pick one, and end up somebody’s heretic, because you’ll make a decision using information not sanctioned as true by one set of priests or the other.


https://runesoup.com/2021/07/a-world-en ... ven-story/
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:37 pm

Belligerent Savant » Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:48 am wrote:.

Consider what’s going on in Arizona with the election investigation as a one example among hundreds. Does the state -as legally required- pursue this investigation to what is very likely a conclusion that at least they certified in partial error (with the strong implication that there was even more fraud than is usual for an American election, which are known internationally to be notoriously fraudulent)? This would set the shitlibs aflame with yet more twitter histrionics and lead to their further departure from reality. Or does the state abandon the investigation and instead set aflame the Trumpist hold-outs leading to their further departure from reality? Which fifteen percent of the population would you like to drive permanently off the deep end? You have to pick one, and end up somebody’s heretic, because you’ll make a decision using information not sanctioned as true by one set of priests or the other.


https://runesoup.com/2021/07/a-world-en ... ven-story/


Think you need some ivermectin. Said to cure brain worms.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby Elvis » Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:16 am

Between the shitty choices, mine is clear.

Dem vs GOP bills.jpg



P.S. I stop reading at "shitlibs."
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:09 am

PufPuf93 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:29 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:56 pm wrote:.
..surely the police officers can't ever be compromised, particularly during testimony, is that right Puf?
Can you consider reasons a protest loses its 'peace'? It can be for organic reasons, of course -- the cause for the protest can be contentious; emotions can boil over. Why else, though? Could there be bad actors in the mix? Could there be other controlling factors at play? Has any of this been raised, at all, in establishment media?

Interesting, the selective scrutiny on display.


That explains the cops, Crisis Actors.

Some protestors came armed to the protest and then used their weapons. The reason for the protest was the Big Lie that Trump won the election.

Are you suggesting I have selective scrutiny?


Selective scrutiny? It's widespread and on some level impossible to avoid. I'd say the clearest example here is when rejection of the false D/R binary ends up at a place where one instead repeats the entire Trump defense and turns it into a big joke that actual movement fascists were invited and fired-up by the literal sitting president to go smash up the Capitol and bully his own vice-president into preventing the certification of an election they had lost.

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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:27 am

.

No one is repeating the Trump defense here, however that may be defined, unless Trump acknowledged he participated in elaborate theatrics.

But there is, in this space, a reticence (or should I type 'refusal') in examining the events outside of the storylines largely parroted by media and/or establishment party lines.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby PufPuf93 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:45 am

JackRiddler » Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:09 am wrote:
PufPuf93 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:29 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:56 pm wrote:.
..surely the police officers can't ever be compromised, particularly during testimony, is that right Puf?
Can you consider reasons a protest loses its 'peace'? It can be for organic reasons, of course -- the cause for the protest can be contentious; emotions can boil over. Why else, though? Could there be bad actors in the mix? Could there be other controlling factors at play? Has any of this been raised, at all, in establishment media?

Interesting, the selective scrutiny on display.


That explains the cops, Crisis Actors.

Some protestors came armed to the protest and then used their weapons. The reason for the protest was the Big Lie that Trump won the election.

Are you suggesting I have selective scrutiny?


Selective scrutiny? It's widespread and on some level impossible to avoid. I'd say the clearest example here is when rejection of the false D/R binary ends up at a place where one instead repeats the entire Trump defense and turns it into a big joke that actual movement fascists were invited and fired-up by the literal sitting president to go smash up the Capitol and bully his own vice-president into preventing the certification of an election they had lost.

.


I'll admit to selective scrutiny. Probably impossible for a human not to have selective scrutiny.

Also have hot buttons. Little turds cause me to stop and create a perception that colors that source (like Elvis's response to "shitlibs"). Other items from past trauma and life havoc get a rise too. Like a video posting about threats of Christian violence.

One has to take the post you responded to in context of my post above:

>>The cops that testified before Congress did not appear to think it was largely a peaceful protest.

Think the basic concept by Trump was to have cause to declare martial law, void the election, and have various lowlifes in place to retain control. Of course the day was planned and performed poorly.

Agree that 9-11 was staged and basically ended the idealized image of the USA and we are no longer anything close to a democracy.

I am pretty much of the perception in that multiple parties are causing chaos, sometimes at odds otherwise converging interests, to better their position when global population crashes. They want the population to crash. Things do not look so great for humanity.

Getting hard to breathe there are so many stupid people of ill will in the USA. RI disappoints me as well.<<

Oh yeah so I do think 1/6 was spectacle and doomed to fail. Also do not think Trump is the ultimate bad guy. Probably Trump is a stooge unaware for parties extremely few aware exist. Trump is a symptom.

Those that thrive on chaos because their aim is to be the survivors are driving the runaway train. Christian nationalists and dominionists are obvious but the masses associated are extreme tools that do not handle uncertainty or "others" well. Communication about the pandemic has turned to babble. The conflict is everywhere in every community and that is been done by design, uncertain as to exactly who. There are boatloads of relatively high quality propaganda and misinformation available flooding the zone. I am at a loss about what can be done about the situation.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby PufPuf93 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:58 pm

Belligerent Savant » Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:27 am wrote:.

No one is repeating the Trump defense here, however that may be defined, unless Trump acknowledged he participated in elaborate theatrics.

But there is, in this space, a reticence (or should I type 'refusal') in examining the events outside of the storylines largely parroted by media and/or establishment party lines.


Trump is indefensible. Trump participated in theatrics unaware. Trump is the ultimate, "Look over there, Squirrel".

Trump is the catalyst that has sucked all sanity out of the world.
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Re: US Presidential Election 2020

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:18 pm

.

Good work further solidifying my prior point, puf.
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