Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

[dada]

How is "far right" not correct?

Trump seems not so much ideological as just doing what "works" to satisfy himself. But yah, I wouldn't call him "left"—or even all that "liberal," whatever that means nowadays.

Does it really matter if someone believes or is only pretending to be believe, though. At the end of the day, the results are the same.

[Cordelia]

Video shows police in Buffalo, New York, shoving 75-year-old to ground.




Cop who shoved him stopped, started to bend down (harass, help, attend to the man?) but was pushed ahead by another cop.

[thrulookingglass]

Rule through violence, fear, and terror. Worst plague ever.

If we want a garden
We're gonna have to sow the seed
Plant a little happiness
Let the roots run deep
If it's love that we give
Then it's love that we reap
If we want a garden
We're gonna have to sow the seed

[Grizzly]

Video shows police in Buffalo, New York, shoving 75-year-old to ground.

Thanks for finding and posting that cordelia, I was going to but It was't findable on alphabet's YOUTUBE, when I first saw it on twitter, and couldn’t figure out how to download it from twit...

Makes my blood boil...

What's not being told, is the 75 elderly man was bringing the pigs back their property, in that of a found helmet. Then they do this shit. it's NOT enough that they've been fired, (which I think we all know means little) but should have had felony assualt charges and they should be wearing public underwear and sleeping on cold steel. Fuckers...

[brekin]

JIM JONES FOR PRESIDENT 2020!

R.I. Brothers and Sisters, I don't usually endorse candidates, but in these end times I feel I have to back the only candidate with the experience and background for these troubling times.
Only Jones has the track record for using the cover of racial harmony, the critique of institutional oppression, white supremacy and the capitalist economic system to unite a diverse and progressive group of people to collective suicide.

Jim Jones 5 Point National Revolutionary Suicide Program

1. YOU want nightly mass die-ins, standing for hours silently listening to propaganda interspersed with group singing and chanting, constant reenactments of last moments of someones tragic death enmasse, and the rehearsal of execution by law enforcement. Well Jones has his White Nights program! He was simulating mass suicide before it was hip!

White Night rehearsals
Jones made frequent addresses to Temple members regarding Jonestown's safety, including statements that the CIA and other intelligence agencies were conspiring with "capitalist pigs" to destroy the settlement and harm its inhabitants.[61][82][83] After work, when purported emergencies arose, the Temple sometimes conducted what Jones referred to as "White Nights".[84] During such events, Jones would sometimes give the Jonestown members four options: attempt to flee to the Soviet Union, commit "revolutionary suicide", stay in Jonestown and fight the purported attackers, or flee into the jungle.[85]
Jones was known to regularly study Adolf Hitler and Father Divine to learn how to manipulate members of the cult. Divine told Jones personally to "find an enemy" and "to make sure they know who the enemy is" as it will unify those in the group and make them subservient to him.[86]
On at least two occasions during White Nights, after a "revolutionary suicide" vote was reached, a simulated mass suicide was rehearsed.

2. YOU want to put your own life and others at risk during a global pandemic, but have moral qualms. Because let's face it, the most progressive thing you could do right now for the well being of marginalized groups and all of society is to stay home and not buy shit online. But you unconsciously fear being stuck to a ventilator and not being able to breathe with covid and dying prematurely, but that is just selfish. Better to find a more righteous proxy to justify swarming in large sweaty asymptomatic crowds and shout with them, "I can't breathe!" Don't worry Jones has his Revolutionary Suicide program! You aren't foolishly spreading a contagious disease by massing in large urban centers and not socially distancing that has the very great risk of killing you and the very marginalized communities you supposedly wish to assist, instead it is “an act of revolutionary suicide protesting the conditions of an inhumane world.”

He then employs a common rhetorical device by creating a “us vs. them” scenario between those who remained at the compound and those disloyal “defectors” who left with the Congressmen. He clarifies that there is no other option for his people, that they must die in dignity and take the potion. Throughout the speech, he invites and responds the criticism. After 45 minutes, the tape ends with silence from the crowd and Jones citing their actions as “an act of revolutionary suicide protesting the conditions of an inhumane world.”
Jones led his people to believe that in death, they were claiming respect for their lives.

https://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=30321

3. YOU want to defund the police and replace it with some vague "community policing" with social workers, counselors, and activists. Well Jones knows all about private security militias that are also responsible for monitoring and enforcing ideology for the people, by the people, to enforce killing the people! Trust me brother, not everyone is going to drink the kool aid willingly!

“November 18, when I received the call from my father and actually spoke to him, and he said we were going to visit Mr. Fraser. Now I was the director of communications on our security team, so I knew what that code meant, okay? That code meant revolutionary suicide,” Jim Jr. said. “My first reaction was, ‘There's got to be a different way. No, Dad, we've got to do something different.’ And he goes, ‘No, you need to be strong. You need to be our avenging angels.’”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/40-years-jone ... d=57997006

4. YOU want to be an ally to minorities and find common cause with them - perhaps because you take for granted some of the security societies institution have provided for you, so you'd like to contribute to terrorizing people of color by demonizing institutions that assist them - by increasingly portraying them as secretly/not so secretly seeking their constant daily elimination. Well, trust me, Jones know all about race-baiting fear mongering for political gain during social unrest!

"He even showed us this movie about the Jewish concentration camps, called 'Night and Fog," Williams said. "He said, 'This is what they have planned for people of color. We've got to build our land up over there in Jonestown, we've got to get over there. We've got to move fast, we've got to move swiftly, we've got to pool our resources together."
"I mean, he sold us a bill of goods," she added.
"You got to remember, this all started back in the '60s and '70s. Our society was in turmoil. There was constant aggression going on. You had riots going on," said former Peoples Temple member Thom Bogue. "And then you have Jim Jones saying, 'Do I have the place for you. For us.'"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/40-years-jone ... d=57933856

5. YOU want to get back to the land and in a more egalitarian, diverse and classless society to work towards a socialist paradise, because man the U.S. is just a racist, corporate run, fascist place saturated by the media. Jones feels you man, and he's got your room for you!

In 1974, the Peoples Temple signed a lease to rent land in Guyana.[80] The community created on this property was called the Peoples Temple Agricultural Project, or, informally, "Jonestown". It had as few as 50 residents in early 1977.[81]
Jones saw Jonestown as both a "socialist paradise" and a "sanctuary" from media scrutiny that had started with the Kinsolving articles.[82] Former Temple member Tim Carter said the Temple moved to Jonestown because "in '74, what we saw in the United States was creeping fascism."[83] Carter explained, "It was apparent that corporations, or the multinationals, were getting much larger, their influence was growing within the government, and the United States is a racist place."[83] Carter said the Temple concluded that Guyana was "a place in a black country where our black members could live in peace", "it was a socialist government" and it was "the only English-speaking country in South America."[83]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Temple

Only Jones knows your heart. When you say you want peace, he knows you want death.
A Vote for Jones, is a vote for National Revolutionary Suicide!

Let 2020 be the year that the Nation finally gets on the People's Bus to the Road to Jonestown!

[JackRiddler]

.

Wow brekin, that's gotta be some kind of violation for over-the-edge-nutso bad-taste diametric misrepresentation of the sun and the moon and the kitchen sink. But it's not personalized, or violating any rules that I can think of, and you're not flooding the board with it -- please don't -- so I guess okay? You've put so much work into it. It's so hilariously consistent in its one-note schtick, so perfected-unto-itself, so aggressively performative, and thus clearly self-cordoning. It's hardly the danger of infection you imagine. I don't know, maybe someone can tell us if you've persuaded them? -- Everyone, what do you figure, is brekin on to something? Are the Floyd protests (and all this yanging about rights and poverty and unemployment and prisons and schools and democracy and housing) fundamentally a genocidal plot engineered by fanatic White-Anarcho-John-Browns to con the black population into committing cult self-genocide by Covid-19 infection? Just like the Reverend Jim Jones would have done it? (Well, with a little help from his CIA friends, many of you will believe.)

...meanwhile...

How is "far right" not correct?

Trump seems not so much ideological as just doing what "works" to satisfy himself. But yah, I wouldn't call him "left"—or even all that "liberal," whatever that means nowadays.

Does it really matter if someone believes or is only pretending to be believe, though. At the end of the day, the results are the same.

It's the "plays him on TV" conundrum, or the problem of the crux: When does kayfabe tip into reality? Is there ever a definable line between the two? Not once the blood is spilled.

As you keep seeing me say, he may not be Hitler, but he plays a Hitler character on TV. Mussolini is perhaps the closer fit. Trump may not be charismatic, at least not to our taste, but he plays the character of a dominant, charismatic dictator whose power and birthright is to rule by fiat, even to dictate physical reality (numbers of people in a crowd, lethality of a viral infection) by the strength of his spoken-word commands. The idea that he has to get his will through a Congress or a court or an administrative procedure is an insult to his sovereignty, Trump is supposed to get his will instantaneously.

Perhaps Hitler wasn't Hitler either. He performed the role, which he rehearsed famously in front of a mirror (the pictures still exist, he had them commissioned so that he could practice his own gestures). And he gradually became the role.

As you say, at the end of the day, the results are the same. Where lone children were put behind bars, now even the accompanied children are stripped from their parents and put behind bars. You cops, he says to the assembled cop rally, you're too gentle! You treat your prisoners too nicely, you protect their heads when pushing them into the car. (They don't always really, it's a TV trope.) Was there less police violence before he started encouraging it and calling for more? I don't know, does it fucking matter? From the podium he yells at his followers at a rally to beat up that guy, the protester, and they do.

I feel like I'm almost splitting too many hairs here. When has Trump not represented white supremacist politics, and when has this usually not been in the open? That he denies it and tells you he loves the blacks, loves the Hispanics, is a standard of the form. Even Nazis sue you for calling them Nazis, like Golden Dawn. It's image management. But then he goes back to the refrain: Build the wall. The beautiful wall. They send rapists and drug dealers. Bad hombres. Bad people. In the 1980s he intervened in the judicial near-lynching of five falsely accused black men with a full-page newspaper ad calling for their execution. His grand move on the presidency began with his takeover of "birtherism."

The paleo and leftish apologists keep bringing up certain inane points to suggest his ideology is entirely opportunistic and flexible, that all that matters is whatever pleases him. The latter may be true, but the ideology is central. Some apologists still engage in the diametric falsehood that he's somehow anti-imperialist or anti-war, because he used the "failure" of the Iraq war to bludgeon Jeb Bush to death. That and the populist anti-trade pro-worker stuff is the opportunism, and these stances are proven 100 percent disposable when something important is on the line, like cutting taxes on billionaires and hunting down more clean-air regulations to overturn.

Whether or not he's a true believer or just the manager of his own brand, the racism is a core message, and service to billionaires is a core message. Everything else is decoration, the fake gold fixtures in the toilet. Apologists need to figure out finally he didn't bother to get himself crowned Isolationist-in-Chief, but became, credibly, the Birtherist-in-Chief. This is what he sold, this is how he won, although of course it is what the GOP had cultivated over many decades. He used an open exposition of the GOP ideology and performed ape-like dominance rituals to take over their base and their party.

.

[brekin]

.
Wow brekin, that's gotta be some kind of violation for over-the-edge-nutso bad-taste diametric misrepresentation of the sun and the moon and the kitchen sink. But it's not personalized, or violating any rules that I can think of, and you're not flooding the board with it -- please don't -- so I guess okay? You've put so much work into it. It's so hilariously consistent in its one-note schtick, so perfected-unto-itself, so aggressively performative, and thus clearly self-cordoning. It's hardly the danger of infection you imagine. I don't know, maybe someone can tell us if you've persuaded them? -- Everyone, what do you figure, is brekin on to something? Are the Floyd protests (and all this yanging about rights and poverty and unemployment and prisons and schools and democracy and housing) fundamentally a genocidal plot engineered by fanatic White-Anarcho-John-Browns to con the black population into committing cult self-genocide by Covid-19 infection? Just like the Reverend Jim Jones would have done it? (Well, with a little help from his CIA friends, many of you will believe.)

Wow, that's got to be one of the most biased, mischaracterizing, patronizing, judgemental, "looking for a code violation because I don't like it" sniffy dismissal (and weird co-opt) of a post by a moderator I've seen. (Sniffy to, but that goes without saying.) Surely, commissar, why subject yourself to further conceptual tension, if you put your mind to it, you can think up a rule it violates. Is R.I. in the new Jack era of moderation some grad seminar you think you are running now? Do you have to reframe posts into questions that you prefer, or for supposed better consumption for the freshmen? You cow no one by critiquing posts while polishing your badge. And what do you mean,"flooding the board with it"? Please make plain the content or length that such posts violate. If you can't, then moderator, don't hide behind your hall monitor powers by trying to sabotage posts you don't like. If you don't like them or disagree, then do so as a fellow poster. And why obliquely rejigger others posts to ask questions you want to ask? Just ask them.

[stickdog99]

[JackRiddler]

Wow, that's got to be one of the most biased, mischaracterizing, patronizing, judgemental, "looking for a code violation because I don't like it" sniffy dismissal (and weird co-opt) of a post by a moderator I've seen. (Sniffy to, but that goes without saying.) Surely, commissar, why subject yourself to further conceptual tension, if you put your mind to it, you can think up a rule it violates. Is R.I. in the new Jack era of moderation some grad seminar you think you are running now?

Of course, this is exactly how grad seminars work.

Notwithstanding, I think I was clear enough the first time. You can read. So can I. Your post was awesome and, as I suspected, untoppable. Which is to say, indefensible. So you don't defend it, but whine sideways about mean comments. Anyway, for a claim that transforms an uprising against oppression and injustice (well-advised or not, justified or not) into an imagined genocide run by white anarchists on the patsy black folk, your work is weirdly humorous. Quite unlike your response when called on it. Poor fellow.

But why not return to the topic as you have constituted it? We're about content here, right? Anyone else got an opinion? Is brekin on to something? I asked: "Are the Floyd protests (and all this yanging about rights and poverty and unemployment and prisons and schools and democracy and housing) fundamentally a genocidal plot engineered by fanatic White-Anarcho-John-Browns to con the black population into committing cult-like self-genocide by Covid-19 infection?" Well, are they? What do people think?

[Harvey]

But why not return to the topic as you have constituted it? We're about content here, right? Anyone else got an opinion? Is brekin on to something? I asked: "Are the Floyd protests (and all this yanging about rights and poverty and unemployment and prisons and schools and democracy and housing) fundamentally a genocidal plot engineered by fanatic White-Anarcho-John-Browns to con the black population into committing cult-like self-genocide by Covid-19 infection?" Well, are they? What do people think?

^ I certainly didn't receive that impression. Quite brilliant satire by Brekin, thought I. And funny as all fuck.

And I thought your initial response was also quite brilliant satire. Jack plays cop... Now I'm even more intrigued to learn that you do inadvertent satire just as well as vertent satire. Perhaps it will all cohere once I'm sober. (Although, blaming the elderflower wine is almost certainly the very last refuge of a scoundrel, I mean, after patriotism and all that.)

[JackRiddler]

^ I certainly didn't receive that impression. Quite brilliant satire by Brekin, thought I. And funny as all fuck.

If so, then I have been had. I suppose brekin could claim the prize for making me foolishly believe it.

That it's satirical, sure, I get that, since it's an advertisement for Jim Jones. But my impression is that the message is meant seriously. I mean, in the sense of a serious condemnation of the protests for being super-spreader events, motivated by careless selfishness and irresponsibly anarcho-utopian demands (you know, like, "hands up - don't shoot") that take advantage of the poor patsies who want to finally get back on the streets, only to break the anti-pandemic measures and cause a new wave of mass death, mainly among black people.

Is that not the (serious) message?

[norton ash]

I thought Brekin's thing was satire along the lines of 'why not go full death-cult?' instead of the miserable dress-rehearsal we're taking part in now.

[Wombaticus Rex]

There are definitely cult-like aspects to what is going on. Every revolutionary movement tends towards Red Guards, so how much you see it tends to be a matter of how much you want to see it -- all analysis, like all journalism, is motivated.

Still, it's hard to miss the smell of the secular evangelical ceremonies whereby a herd of crackers take to their knees, raise their hands into the air, and seek absolution for their white privilege. Something is afoot there.

Speaking of motivated analysis, I was utterly unmoved by the early attempts at .jpg phrenology asserting that that Derek Chauvin who was arrested wasn't the real Derek Chavin. I've just spent too much time doing photo / video analysis with money on the line, I know how easy it is for angles and foreshortening to confound your read.

So it really bothers me to have to report this latest juxtaposition really makes me wonder. Photo attached.

[Elvis]

Is brekin on to something?

I think brekin is on something.



Just kidding of course. The post was a bit over-the-top but really just a collection of the arguments we're seeing come up to protest protesting and remind us that the police protest us—I mean protect us.


P.S. Personally I could do without seeing corpses but if one must....

[Elvis]

Someone made the observation that the police are just well-equipped counter-protesters.