Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Who will be the actual Democratic candidate?

Sen. Harris
3
12%
Sen. Klobuchar
0
No votes
Sen. Warren
1
4%
Stacey Abrams
1
4%
Michelle Obama
4
16%
Secretary Clinton
4
16%
Gov. Whitmer
1
4%
Other VP candidate (click this and specify below)
3
12%
Brokered convention surprise: Other (click and specify)
3
12%
Rope-a-dope: Biden implodes, Sanders re-emerges
5
20%
 
Total votes : 25

Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby Sounder » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:45 pm

That's funny, I saw Gretchen Whitmer, VP hopeful, out with protesters while some business are still closed.

Jack wrote...
This has got to be the most imperviously false statement one could manage.


Nah, yours are much better.
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:49 pm

Too lazy to fish out this footage of Whitmer "out with protesters"? Your usual high level of contribution?

Some politicians may be doing the right thing. They should fucking side with the protesters. But for the most part we have seen how some number of politicians affect to do so, usually while looking to coopt, channel and confuse the protests, divide "good" from "bad" and white from black, paint a sympathetic picture of some neighborhood people led astray by "thousands" of outside agitators, offer up non-reforms, etc. (They're a bit like the cops who take a knee but later participate in violent crowd control. It's like a game kickoff ceremony.)

A full census has yet to be done, but I'd guess at least an equal number of politicians have engaged in more straightforward condemnation of protests and endorsement of police violence against the protests. Certainly the latter is constantly endorsed, not as violence of course, but with statements to the effect that the police have in the main been appropriate, etc. etc.

Here in New York, you can find one case of De Blasio trying to speak to a crowd, getting booed. It's more relevant that he orders a fucking curfew and provides every possible flak move to cover for the ultraviolence the NYPD is engaging in. Despite this, Cuomo calls him soft and actually comments that as governor, he has the authority to fire the mayor. (Wow)

People stayed in the streets. The curfew's been canceled for tonight, at least.

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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby liminalOyster » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:50 pm

0_0 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:09 pm wrote:
liminalOyster » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:17 pm wrote:I sincerely don't follow your response. It's probably my own fault. But regardless who has attempted to appropriate these slogans, there is no dispute, best I can tell, that both began as part of social movements (all caveats about how complex the whole organism and its constituent actors acknowledged but temporarily set aside.) I can't breathe, in particular, is literally a repetition of a phrase that first uttered by crowds as a repeat of the desperation experienced by a man being murdered. It matters that Nike and Amazon and probably fucking WalMart and Target and whomever else thinks they can just say these things too to appease the masses. But it's simply wrong (not ethical, compassionate or humane) to essentially dismiss the literal millions of people in the street as sheeple. Who knows, maybe (as NIck Land recently tweeted and made me snicker), part of this is about the human race unconsciously choosing herd immunity. But then IIRC, that's what you've advocated all along, no?


I called those slogans cynical when used by the same media, politicians and big corporations that until a week ago were all urging us to stay home and save lives, and who don't care either way. Nowhere did i dismiss "the literal millions of people in the street as sheeple". Are there really millions? And yes, natural immunity is what i have advocated all along for everyone but the very frail and/or very elderly. If nothing else i hope these protests will finally and to everyone's satisfaction prove that the dangers of coronavirus were hugely exaggerated, although i'm not hopeful.


The slogans don't become cynical simply because they've been (unscuccessfully I might add, subject to appropriation by corporations.) No, you did not call anyone sheeple. But I think you should probably not be too surprised someone reads you this way when people are out passionately fighting for their lives and you're essentially dismissing their words .

Side note but the dangers of COVID have been *unknown.* And largely still are, but I think you're responding to extreme precaution against the unknown as if it's a strong statement that noone in power has made.
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby brekin » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:42 am

The Pragmatic Revolutionaries Guide to the CULT-ural De-Evolution
(Don't go Full Retar-, er, Full Revolutionary, quite yet)

Image
(Actual photo of non-violent protestors in Pawtucket, R.I. seeking to end police brutality and other things eluded to on Public Enemy's greatest hits.)

No offense, but all of you who are currently gnashing your teeth and crying to heaven regarding police brutality-
For some reason I cannot imagine you in the past, just 14 days ago say, charging solo up on your local police precinct and demanding to be incarcerated for the cause that was oh so conveniently whipped up for your drama carb starved frontal lobes during Operation Lockdown, a.k.a. Global Trance Induction for Covid Reduction.


Image

Sure, I don't doubt you are down with cause, are an ally. For sure, you like most compassionate beings- you are affected by tiny short clips of oppression slivered between your marathon orgies of cyber consumption. But don't pull a premature Che just because Anderson Cooper, Mighty Whitey the bluest of blue blood Vander-reptilians, is sounded more and more like Castro everaday-

Fool, you were isolated, sleep cycles messed up, families and friends (the few you have in flesh not the cyber kind) were quarantined, and you were bombarded with propaganda day and night and ate like shit. Dog, you was brainwashed!

And after 3 months of that you think the revolution just conveniently happened?


Image

No, you've step into a mass psychogenic illness brought on by plague like conditions and the medieval church of modern day media.
So, before you load up the Subaru Outback with molotovs to die a martyrs death on the streets of Pawtucket, just remember-

You NEVER go FULL RETAR- er FULL REVOLUTIONARY right out of Heavens Gate!

Image

There will be a lull in the trance, and the excesses of the dance dance revolution will be hard to explain away (everyones got phones bro) at your next job interview (and yes they'll be back someday with those.)
So, All we are saying, is give piecemeal a chance.
For now, just go HALF RETAR- er HALF REVOLUTIONARY!


Terror, Love, and Brainwashing
The Book Brigade talks to cult survivor and expert Alexandra Stein.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ainwashing
From ISIS to small local cults, seemingly ordinary people are manipulated into carrying out acts that are often harmful or even dangerous. How does that happen?

What makes an individual vulnerable to a cult?

There is a very inaccurate stereotype of needy, weak people looking for cults to join. However, no one joins a cult. As terrorism scholar Martha Crenshaw put it, most people get into dangerous groups “by accident, on their way to other goals”. And cults do not want dysfunctional or unproductive people; that would be a drain on the cult’s resources. They want functional, useful people who will contribute in some way.

People come into cults through a variety of pathways and bring with them a variety of personality types. In addition, many are born into cults. But the one thing that seems to be supported by research is that new followers are more easily recruited when they are at a normal life “blip,” as Margaret Singer put it—if one is between affiliations, such as moving house, going to university, getting married or divorced or breaking up a relationship, experiencing bereavement. A person embarking on such changes may be looking for a new relationship, hobby, religious affiliation, or even a new gym (yes, there are many fitness-based cults). And all such changes can expose a person to a recruitment attempt.

But in my view, the main vulnerability factor is ignorance. A person lacking knowledge of how cults target and recruit people and the mechanisms they use to entrap people may not be able to identify a coercion attempt when targeted.

You identify a trifecta of terror, love, and brainwashing as key to cult behavior. Can you explain the intersection of the three?

The same dynamic that occurs in domestic violence also applies to cults. First a person is lured to group or person who seemingly shares their interests and concerns. They may then be subject to a kind of love-bombing, given extreme amounts of attention, which can feel flattering and seem the sign of having found a safe place. Then begins an attempt to isolate the person from friends and family. The potential recruit becomes engulfed in a new system and out of touch with their old, known network.

That paves the way for the group to engage in “terror” tactics, arousing a sense of threat, whether it’s fear of the apocalypse, fear of being criticized, fear of the outside world, or some other group-specific fear. I believe attachment theory provides a good theoretical approach for understanding brainwashing, and it holds that people run to a safe haven when they are afraid. If the group has been successful, the recruit, now having had fear instilled by the group, runs to the only safe haven available—the group itself.

What are the consequences?

There are two effects of running to the group. First, it creates a disorganized attachment bond, what Judith Herman described as a trauma bond in her book, Trauma and Recovery. It is strong bond that is difficult to break so long as the person remains isolated from alternate safe havens. Emotional and cognitive isolation are key, not necessarily physical isolation. Cults isolate followers by controlling their personal relationships and by restricting information sources to the cult.

Second, the disorganized attachment, characterized by running to the source of fear, causes dissociation. Running to the source of fear obviously doesn’t provide escape from the threat. Because it is a maladaptive way of coping with threat, the person goes into a “freeze” mode and is unable to think clearly about what is happening. This explains why perfectly intelligent people can find themselves unable to rationally view a cult they are involved with. It is literally too frightening and disorganizing to do so. The lack of alternate information and true havens undermine a follower’s cognitive processes on matters regarding the group. The cult can now do the thinking for them—the essence of brainwashing.

There are all sorts of cults; do they share familiar themes?

Cults really do come in all forms, I’ve seen everything from yoga to therapy to commercial to political and religious cults. The recruitment processes can vary, but the mechanisms of isolation, engulfment, and fear arousal are universal, and explain how groups hang on to and brainwash followers.


You yourself joined a cult. What was it like?

I joined a so-called left-wing political group—“so called” because it didn’t actually do anything to promote social justice and equality, which is what I thought I would be doing. It was only after I left that I realized it was, in fact, a cult.

Was your research made harder because of your experience?

The experience I had in a cult actually made the research easier. I knew what being in a cult felt like, so I had a lot of clues about the feelings and thoughts of a person caught in a cult. And people were willing to share their stories with me because they knew I had a similar experience and would not stigmatize them.

What does it take for people to defy cults and totalitarianism like the Cultural Revolution of Mao or the Reich of Hitler?

People who understand the mechanisms that cults use can see through them, which bolsters the ability to resist. They are often able to remain detached, to hang on—even internally—to some sense of support outside the group and also to a personal identity. They have an awareness of being manipulated, and that can help counteract the process.

What is the best way to support the family of a person who has joined a cult?

There are people who specialize in helping family members, but the foremost action is to educate yourself about cults and read the basic literature in the field. It’s best not to react impulsively. Second, it’s important to remain in contact with the cult member. The cult will be trying its best to cut outsiders off, but try to maintain a patient, non-judgmental, but gently questioning approach that supports the person’s prior personality. Criticizing the cult directly is usually counterproductive. Then begin to make a plan to help your loved one re-engage their cognitive abilities.
article continues after advertisement

How and when can a family intervene?

The best time to intervene is before a recruitment attempt! Families and schools must educate their children from a young age about such dangerous relationships. In the same way that parents teach children about consent, about “good touch, bad touch,” they must educate them about the dangers of isolating, engulfing, and frightening relationships. It is so much easier to stay out of these controlling groups in the first place than to get out once trapped. Prevention efforts should focus on informing young people about manipulative leaders and groups.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby cptmarginal » Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:44 am

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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby 0_0 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:04 am

Romney Marches With Protesters in Washington
Published June 7, 2020
By Emily Cochrane and Aishvarya Kavi
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WASHINGTON — Senator Mitt Romney of Utah marched with demonstrators toward the White House on Sunday, appearing to be the first Republican senator to join the thousands across the country protesting the death of George Floyd in police custody. Mr. Romney shared on Twitter a photograph of himself marching among the crowd, with the caption “Black Lives Matter.”

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Mr. Romney, who marched with a group of Christians, told a Washington Post reporter that he had joined the protest to show that “we need to end violence and brutality, and to make sure that people understand that black lives matter.” In joining the protest, Mr. Romney again found himself at odds with President Trump, who has pushed for a military response to the unrest, and standing apart from most of his party, as when he became the sole Republican senator to vote to remove Mr. Trump from office.
(...)
Democrats, by contrast, have made a point of supporting and participating in the rallies. Representative Joyce Beatty of Ohio was hit by pepper spray during a demonstration in her state late last month, while Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California made a trip last week to briefly speak to protesters gathered outside the Capitol. Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon was seen on Saturday handing out water bottles to protesters marching through Washington, while Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York attended a protest and handed out masks to people walking by.


continued at https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/us/p ... tests.html

& on request..
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer appeared to violate her own executive order regarding social distancing when she attended a George Floyd protest in Highland Park on Thursday.
Posted Jun 05, 2020
By Justin P. Hicks

The Detroit News published a photo of Whitmer kneeling with protesters shoulder-to-shoulder, several of whom were not wearing masks. Whitmer has made past statements that earlier protests endangered other residents in the state and could lead to a second wave of the coronavirus that has killed 5,595 people in Michigan as of June 4.

Whitmer said May 13 on ABC’s The View protests against her policies were undermining the effort to combat COVID-19. “They are congregating, they are not wearing masks,” Whitmer stated on The View. “They are not staying six feet apart. And then they go back home into communities and the risk the perpetuating the spread of COVID-19 is real. We’ve seen it happen. And that’s why, I respect people’s right to dissent, they need to do it in a way that is responsible and does not put others at risk.”

Whitmer added: “Anyone who is contributing to people not observing best practices and endangering others is undermining all that work … and run the very real risk of a second wave.”


continued at https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2 ... ality.html

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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby Sounder » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:45 am

Too lazy to fish out this footage of Whitmer "out with protesters"? Your usual high level of contribution?


What, like the picture would make it all 'rigorous', don't make me laugh, I'm drinking coffee.

So, I'm lazy and provide useless contributions, great, now it's time for your beta dog followers to chip in to validate your erudite observations. :yay :yay
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:30 am

.

After about two weeks of popular protests across the country against the well-funded long-term police brutalization of communities, after the protesters persisted despite being met with constant and extreme police violence at every turn, after all the defamations and hospitalizations, after a death count to be totaled, after ongoing threats by the president to impose military law and order mass murder, it's far from enough and it may be a false dawn, but it's not a bad sign that a few politicians have begun to at least make the right gestures, as cynical as some of these politicians may be in doing so.

I'd rather see Whitmer look hypocritical than sanction the police and National Guard to murder protesters, as Trump and I bet a few of his supporters here would like. I'd rather see her kneeling for a while with the people calling for an end to police brutality, even if she also showed disapproval for the actions of the armed paramilitary right-wing clubs who invaded the statehouse, and thus appears inconsistent to you. (What's the new slogan for the fragile set? #allprotestsmatter?) Better for her to appear inconsistent to you, than go along with whatever you'd consider consistent!

In New York, where the police union leaders call the mayor a traitor and the mayor plays their lapdog anyway, where most politicians and most corporate media for a long time tried to spin police violence as "violent protests" and justify and assist measures like the attempted general curfew, people stayed in the streets. The curfew was canceled last night, at least. You liberty warriors should be thanking them.

.

As far as parody goes, nothing's going to top the original.

news.yahoo.com
White House claims violence incited at Floyd protests linked to Venezuela’s Maduro

Michael Wilner, David Smiley, Alex Daugherty, Nora Gámez Torres

The White House said Friday it has information that individuals linked to Venezuelan leader Nicolás Maduro have incited violence at protests in the United States spurred by George Floyd’s death.

U.S. Sen Rick Scott also highlighted a similar report earlier in the week, promising Wednesday on Twitter that the U.S. government would crack down on any operatives tied to Latin American dictators who instigate conflict in Miami as part of the protests..

Neither offered proof of the allegations, and the White House declined to discuss “non-open source information” that had led to their assessment. Scott cited a Diario de las Americas news report linking back to a blog.

“We are aware of efforts by individuals linked to America’s adversaries, including the illegitimate regime of Venezuela’s Nicolas Maduro, to instigate conflict, help incite violence, and divide Americans by exploiting peaceful protests,” a senior Trump administration official told McClatchy and the Miami Herald, requesting anonymity due to the sensitivity of the intelligence matter.

Asked for additional, non-public information to back up their claim, the senior administration official said, “We are unable to further discuss any non-open source information.”

Publicly, there is little evidence to back up the claims. Miami and Miami-Dade police said they were unaware of the allegations. The FBI and U.S Attorney’s office aren’t commenting. The State Department said that any investigations into domestic protests are not within its purview.

And with the exception of Scott, South Florida’s political leadership — which typically denounces any attempt by Maduro allies to interfere in U.S. politics — isn’t saying anything.

“I think if someone has been arrested and detained, there’s no reason why that information can’t come out,” said Frank Mora, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense for the Western Hemisphere under former President Barack Obama. “Who are these people? Have they been indicted? How do we know that link?”

Mora said the government wouldn’t be able to share intelligence or methods, but should be able to disclose if anyone arrested for inciting violence has direct ties to the Maduro regime.

“This administration is not shy about using this politically in the current environment,” Mora said. “I’m not saying that’s what’s happening now but they certainly have done and used it in a cynical political way in the past.”

Reports that operatives from Cuba and Venezuela had possibly infiltrated protests in Miami first surfaced Monday on Primer Informe, a blog run by former El Nuevo Herald reporter Casto Ocando. According to the blog post by Ocando, FBI counter-terrorism agents had detained and questioned people in Miami and other cities who admitted to having been paid by activists to participate in the protests, and were investigating possible ties to Venezuela and Cuba.

Ocando’s report was picked up by Diario de las Americas. Ocando did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

There have been signs of Chavistas and other leftists at Miami’s daily protests. A Univision reporter filmed a man Sunday carrying the flag of Nicaragua’s Sandinista National LIberation Front in downtown. Another video was posted Sunday of a man wearing a hat designed to look like the Venezuelan flag smashing a hand-held cooler into a parked car.

And a woman participating in Sunday’s march, identified by the Miami-based En Vivo TV as Hellen Peña, acknowledged when pressed


"acknowledged when pressed that she was," or: how to make "is" sound really suspicious

that she was a supporter of the late-Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez who recently traveled to Venezuela to participate in an “international brigade” for young people. The official You Tube channel of Maduro’s foreign ministry posted a video of Peña in February, in which she says “the Venezuelan state cares about its people but U.S. sanctions have affected [Venezuela] so much that it is difficult for it to care for the Venezuelans. They have access to free education and public health; we have nothing of the sort in the U.S.”

In the video, Peña is identified as a member of the third international brigade “Che Guevara” that attended a meeting in Venezuela.

The reports — coming as the U.S. Department of Justice says it is looking into whether extremist groups are instigating violence amid otherwise peaceful protests — caught the attention of Scott, whose tweet earlier this week showed Peña and warned of reports “that the Maduro regime and other LatAm dictators are supporting violent instigators at protests in the Miami area.”

Reports that the Maduro regime and other LatAm dictators are supporting violent instigators at protests in the Miami area.

We will NOT allow it. Anyone with ties to these regimes that incites violence will suffer the legal consequences of their actions!
https://t.co/xY6PHVOJ1x

— Rick Scott (@SenRickScott) June 3, 2020


“Senator Scott is very concerned with reports of protestors in Miami with ties to Latin American regimes and dictators like Nicolas Maduro and organizations like the FMLN,” Scott spokesman Chris Hartline said in a statement to the Miami Herald. “Senator Scott hopes that the FBI and federal authorities continue to investigate this matter and that anyone linked to acts of violence and destruction be held accountable.”

The FMLN, or Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front, is a leftist political party in El Salvador.

Asked for the source of Scott’s concerns, Hartline emailed a link to the Diario de las Americas story that reported on presence of leftists at the Miami rallies and linked to Ocando’s blog.

The office of Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, now the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and a high-profile critic of Cuba and Venezuela’s governments, declined to comment. Rubio, who often posts on social media about covert activists by Venezuela and Cuba, has not said anything publicly on any alleged efforts by the two countries to sow dissent in Miami.

On Thursday, U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr said federal authorities had evidence of extremist groups instigating violence amid protests. “We’re also seeing foreign actors playing all sides to exacerbate the violence,” Barr said at a press conference in Washington.

Asked to elaborate on that point, Barr and FBI Director Christopher Wray did not name specific countries, and focused their comments on “disinformation” campaigns, and social media.

The FBI declined to comment. “Per FBI policy, we would not confirm or deny the existence of this type of investigation,” said agency spokesman Michael D. Leverock. The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of Florida did not respond to a request for comment.

Miami and Miami-Dade police said they were unaware of the allegations. Miami Police Chief Jorge Colina has publicly stated that most people arrested in Miami on Saturday, a first day of protests in the city, during which arson fires were set and officers clashed with demonstrators, were from outside the city. But he said in a text message that he had “not yet seen any evidence” of foreign operatives inciting violence.

Miami Herald reporter Charles Rabin contributed to this report.


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The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby 0_0 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:37 am

JackRiddler » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:30 am wrote:I'd rather see Whitmer look hypocritical than sanction the police and National Guard to murder protesters, as Trump and I bet a few of his supporters here would like.


Really? Just two weeks ago if you pointed out the absurdity of the extreme lockdown measures you were a 'covidiot' trying to murder grandma, now on top of that you're a racist trying to murder protesters? Is that where we are? C'mon now, how is this helpful at all?
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:33 am

0_0 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:37 am wrote:
JackRiddler » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:30 am wrote:I'd rather see Whitmer look hypocritical than sanction the police and National Guard to murder protesters, as Trump and I bet a few of his supporters here would like.


Really? Just two weeks ago if you pointed out the absurdity of the extreme lockdown measures you were a 'covidiot' trying to murder grandma, now on top of that you're a racist trying to murder protesters? Is that where we are? C'mon now, how is this helpful at all?


Since you seem to be responding to my quoted matter: One of your characterizations relates to nothing I said, either two weeks ago or now. The other is a false strawman of what I just said, which didn't refer to you. And I'm not sure I've seen the two characterizations applicable to the same person here yet.

But more relevant for you: Why do you feel addressed by either?
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby 0_0 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:07 pm

I feel addressed as a user of this discussion board. You state that there are Trump supporters here who would like the police and the National Guard to murder protesters. That's a serious allegation to make that concerns all of us in my opinion.

Look i get why you have to use a strawman -in the form of trump supporters who'd like the police to murder protesters- to make Whitmer look good. Because on her own she looks pretty ridiculous right now. My point and hypothesis, which i will gladly restate, is that the exact same politicians, media and big corporations who until a week ago were the most vocal proponents of a lockdown are now the biggest proponents of going out and protesting. And if they said hey we were wrong, we overreacted vis-a-vis da covidia then maybe i could see a point, but they don't say that and the lockdown measures are still in place, unless you are protesting against racism (which btw is inequality for the law, i can't go protest against the lockdown but i can go protest against racism). So either the lockdown was an overreaction and we fined families for sitting on a park bench together and people attending churchservice in their car and surfers alone at sea etc for nothing, or the danger is real and the black lives matters protests will wreak havoc on vulnerable minorities, now which one is it please.

And ideally i'd like Whitman and co to answer that but everyone can join in,
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby Elvis » Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:04 pm

Mitt Romney attempts leveraged buyout of Antifa

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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:12 pm

The short answer is that I don't give a shit what Whitmer looks like right now, especially to you. I think it is of little importance. Fancy that. I don't get to vote in Michigan but I actually sent a small contribution to her progressive primary opponent in that election. Unfortunately, no one asked me who the state's governor should be.

Now she's caught up in the kind of contradictions that are pretty usual for right-wing Democratic politicians in office. They follow the donor funding and the lobbies and the corporate interests, and don't think too much about principles beyond platitudes, until one day a crisis comes and they end up in a conundrum like this one. It's pretty minor. She'll get over it.

Yes, I find it relatively preferable that, after two weeks of determined protests in the face of unrelenting police violence, she has, for now, chosen to make an appearance with some of the protesters. It's a gesture, unless she also calls back the coppers. It is a minor concession and an attempt to defuse the situation, and cannot be described as encouragement.

But how absurd to want to condemn her for it. It is certainly preferable she does this, even if she omg breaks the pandemic rules, given that the likes of Trump and Cotton and Barr are pushing toward open military dictatorship and condoning mass murders by the army. You'd think the latter would be a greater concern for you?

Obviously this upsets you and some other people because it looks inconsistent with her advocacy of the often illogical pandemic rules, and her earlier condemnation of the armed right-wing extremist groups who invaded her statehouse for bogus protests at the invitation of billionaires.

In practice, however, her government also bent over backwards to accommodate the armed psychos. This is not about whether they had a right to protest the pandemic measures. They certainly did. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean they are any less astroturfed, or change the fact that many among them were there to terrorize lawmakers by lugging their home arsenals into the house gallery.

Which they got to do, so what is your complaint? That she didn't kiss them? I don't believe any of those gun-toters were arrested for their terrorist displays. Imagine what would happen if the #BLM protesters showed up with rifles and rocket launchers!

So what is it exactly that has you even focusing on Whitmer, a for-now relatively unimportant person, and thinking your judgment of her consistency matters to me or anyone else?
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:34 pm

Here's something on the original as well as the current subject of this thread: three minutes of Kamala Harris at some kind of TED knockoff in 2013, mocking all the well-meaning Democrats who supposedly possess signs reading "Money for Schools Not Prisons." She sounds like a sophist and a sociopath with no sense of how phony her performance comes across. In her telling the only alternative to maintaining present prison budgets would be to surrender control of the streets to roving gangs of rapists and murderers. They apparently constitute the entire incarcerated population. Money for schools not prisons can only mean the immediate release of these hordes who will pillage and burn and kill grandma. We are going to hear worse versions of this Death Wish III fantasy propaganda soon enough from Trump-Pence-Cotton-Stormtroopers-4Ever and possibly also from Biden-Harris 2020, in response to the surprising hold for the moment of the notion that the police should be defunded.*

https://youtu.be/4bPRtLbyCjY?t=675


* I confess to wonder at the slogan, though my objection is not to the literal meaning. It just sounds more radical than it is, since in terms of feasible political practice it refers to the same main goal of Money for Schools Not Prisons. More for social workers and health care and low-income apartments. Less for cops, less for wars on drugs, less surplus military gear to the police, etc.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby Elvis » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:18 am

Check this shit out...

Rival Blue Line Gangs Clash In A Tense Stand Off In New Mexico

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpgVswVS4iU


Just to follow up—few days later...

Rio Arriba County sheriff arrested for not complying with search warrant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=youJmht7RH0


Four days ago...

It's even more exciting that I imagined! —

Rio Arriba County sheriff arrested again
http://www.riograndesun.com/news/author ... 478e6.html

By Molly Mongtomery SUN Staff Writer Jun 4, 2020 Updated Jun 5, 2020

Rio Arriba County Sheriff James Lujan was arrested–again.
...

Exactly two weeks ago, Lujan was also arrested after he refused to comply with a search warrant issued in the previous case.

The new charges stem from a March 14, 2017 incident, and, as with previous charges against Lujan, involve former Española city councilor Phillip Chacon.

Around 11 p.m. that night, Española Police Officer Anthony Armijo saw a white Dodge truck enter the Española Police Department parking lot and pull up next to a silver truck registered to Chacon, according to Munoz’s affidavit for arrest warrant.

The alarm of the silver truck began sounding.

Armijo recalled that the white truck fit the description of a vehicle in an Officer Safety bulletin, and then watched the white truck leave the parking lot at high speed in an “erratic manner,” the affidavit states.

Armijo followed the white truck in his patrol car, ran its license plate and found that the registration was suspended.

At a red light, the driver of the white truck began driving in reverse toward the patrol car at high speed. Armijo believed the driver was trying to ram into his vehicle and had to quickly reverse to avoid being hit.

When the light turned green, the driver began fleeing eastbound on State Road 584, and Armijo turned on his sirens and lights and called for backup. The truck made an abrupt left turn against a red light.

Armijo and Española Police Officer Ernest Saucedo pursued the white truck, but the driver only sped up, traveling north at speeds of over 110 miles per hour in a 35 mile-per-hour zone.


Nearing city limits, the officers stopped pursuing the vehicle, after they watched local traffic pulling up on a sidewalk to avoid a collision.

Central dispatch then received a call from the driver of the white truck, who was identified as Chacon.

Chacon, who was now outside of city limits, said Española Police had been chasing him. He said the pursuit was illegal and that he wanted to speak with New Mexico State Police.

Central dispatch advised County Sheriff’s Deputy Cody Lattin about the chase. Lattin learned of Chacon’s location through GPS–Chacon at that point was near mile marker 6 on State Road 68–and contacted Española Police to inform them that he would try to find Chacon and that he needed to serve Chacon with a temporary restraining order.

Chacon’s wife had filed the restraining order earlier that day.

On his way, Lattin observed a black SUV, with sirens and lights on, and asked dispatch whether any other emergency was occurring in the area. Dispatch reported that there was no other emergency.

Lattin then watched the driver of the black SUV shut the sirens and off and pull into a parking area off Highway 68. Lattin approached and realized that the driver was Sheriff Lujan.


Lujan told Lattin that Chacon called Lujan to tell him that Española Police were illegally chasing Chacon.

Sheriff Lujan relayed to Officer Lattin his “discontent with city police '' and said that they needed to stop harassing Chacon, according to the affidavit.

Then Lujan received a phone call, which came through the car’s speakers via Bluetooth, and the voice on the other end of the line belonged to Chacon.

Lujan instructed Lattin to follow him, but not to tell anyone where they were going. Lattin followed Lujan to Chacon’s residence in Española. There, Lujan knocked on the door and asked Lattin whether he had the restraining order with which Lattin needed to serve Chacon.

Lattin did not, so he called Deputy Ernest Garcia, who brought the paperwork and left immediately, after observing that Lujan was standing near Chacon’s door.

Lattin heard Lujan instruct Chacon to gather his belongings. Chacon left the house with a duffel bag, which he placed in the backseat of Lujan’s car, and sat in the passenger seat.

Lujan told Lattin not to tell anyone what he saw and drove off with Chacon.

Lattin was scared of reporting the behavior at the time, because he was afraid of retaliation or losing his job.

“Officer Lattin was aware of Sheriff Lujan’s pattern of conduct and knew him to be vindictive,” the affidavit states.

That night, Lujan had called dispatch and spoken with Dispatcher Alejandro de la Rosa, demanding to know what phone number Chacon was calling from and also requesting recordings of the pursuit, saying not to tell anyone about the request.

Officer Saucedo remembers calling Lattin after the pursuit three times, and on one of the calls, overheard Lujan telling Lattin, “Don’t f****** tell anyone where we are at or what we are doing.”

Lattin a couple weeks later told Saucedo Lujan had “chewed out Lattin,” the affidavit states.

On March 15, 2017, Lujan again contacted de la Rosa about his request for the recording. De la Rosa was not able to take the call, and Lujan later confronted him in the Dispatch center parking lot, questioning De la Rosa, accusing him of leaking information about the incident, and not allowing him to re-enter the dispatch building or contact his director about the incident.

De la Rosa said he resigned because of Lujan’s intimidation and accusations, according to the affidavit.

In a March 16 letter, Lujan informed 911 Board Chairperson and City Councilor Peggy Sue Martinez that he was notified about the March 14 pursuit and contacted de la Rosa requesting information about it.

He wrote in the letter that he told de la Rosa not to tell anyone about his requests and corroborated de la Rosa’s account of the confrontation in the parking lot.

“However, Sheriff Lujan’s claims are that he is only informing Ms. Martinez about the incident due to a security breach,” the affidavit states.

That Lujan was in contact with Chacon during the chase and instructed Chacon to gather his belongings and then drove him away in his patrol car, when he knew Española Police were trying to locate him on a charge of aggravated fleeing of law enforcement, amounts to harboring or aiding a felon, the affidavit states.

Lujan’s repeated instructions to Lattin not to tell anyone about what he was doing, when Lattin was in fear of retaliation or losing his job, amount to intimidation of a witness, the affidavit states.

Los Alamos Magistrate Court Judge Pat Casados will preside over Lujan's arraignment, which will occur on Monday at 9 a.m. Lujan was released shortly after his arrest, on the same conditions he was released after his first arrest.

This story is breaking and will be updated with more information shortly.



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Thumbs up! Better days are ahead! And he's still Sheriff!

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