...On 'Cancel' Culture

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Re: ...On 'Cancel' Culture

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:56 pm

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/bryan-cranston-cancel-culture-less-forgiveness-in-our-world

Celebrity News
Published 20 hours ago
Bryan Cranston says 'cancel culture' breeds 'less forgiveness in our world'

The 64-year-old actor addressed the notion -- the practice of publicly admonishing and potentially ending the careers of public figures when they make remarks or take actions deemed inappropriate or insensitive -- in a video interview posted by The Associated Press on Twitter on Thursday.

"We live in this cancel culture of people erring and doing wrong -- either on purpose or by accident -- and there's less forgiveness in our world," the "Breaking Bad" star said. "I think we're unfortunately in a courser environment. I think our societies have become harder and less understanding, less tolerant, less forgiving."

Cranston said that as he's been asking himself "where does forgiveness live in our society?"

The actor said that he feels that forgiveness can be given to those who are "contrite" and "apologetic."

He explained that cancel culture is creating a division in which people are marked "out" or "in" depending on their behavior, making note that even "one mistake" can render someone "gone."
Bryan Cranston said that cancel culture has created 'less forgiveness in our world.' (Photo by Sean Zanni/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images)

Bryan Cranston said that cancel culture has created 'less forgiveness in our world.' (Photo by Sean Zanni/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images)

Seeing public figures "ostracized for the rest of their lives" has prompted an idea: "I think we need to take a second look at that and exhale and realize that asking forgiveness and receiving forgiveness are not weaknesses, but are human strengths," Cranston said.


I agree with a lot of the stuff upthread, but I do think the question of forgiveness is legitimate. Of course, topics like these are ones of varying gradation. What can be forgiven, and where and when, is not always clear and will never be the same for everybody. Just as "cancelling" someone for promoting neo-Nazi bullshit is not the same as doing it because someone supports a free and independent Palestine.
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Re: ...On 'Cancel' Culture

Postby dada » Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:55 pm

Isn't much of cancel culture politically motivated, though? Feigned outrage with digital bullying for political ends. Like getting Disney to fire James Gunn for making tasteless jokes once upon a time. The lack of forgiveness isn't a failure, but an angle being worked. Gunn is not a fan of Donald Trump, so let's find a way to get him.

Of course Gunn was hired back, so Disney showed forgiveness. Although he didn't seem very bothered by the whole episode. Just what happens on the Internet. The mob mentality trolls pile on, because they can.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: ...On 'Cancel' Culture

Postby Harvey » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:43 pm

And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: ...On 'Cancel' Culture

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:57 pm

.


I think it's crazy I'm the one who they labeled as controversial
And Cardi B is the role model for 12-year-old girls
There's rappers pushing Xanax at the top of the Billboard
But if I mention race in a song, I'm scared I'll get killed for it
It's backwards, it's getting exponentially dumb
It's more difficult to get a job than purchase a gun
Eminem used to gay bash and murder his mom
And now he doesn't want fans if they voted for Trump
We're ashamed to be American, you should probably love it
'Cause you have the right to say it and not get strung up in public
As children, we were taught how to walk and talk
But the system wants adults to sit down and shut up
Cancel culture runs the world now, the planet went crazy
Label everything we say as homophobic or racist
If you're white, then you're privileged, guilty by association
All our childhood heroes got Me-Too'd or they're rapists

They never freed the slaves, they realized that they don't need the chains
They gave us tiny screens, we think we're free 'cause we can't see the cage
They knew that race war would be the game they need to play
For people to pick teams, they use the media to feed the flame

They so fake woke, facts don't care 'bout feelings
They know they won't tell me what to believe in
They so fake woke, same old safe zones
They so fake woke, facts don't care 'bout your feelings

I think it's crazy all these people screaming facts, but they fake woke
Hate their neighbor 'cause he wears a mask or he stays home
Has a daughter, but his favorite artist said he slays hoes
Picks her up from school, music slaps on the way home
Censorship's an issue 'cause they choose what they erase
There's a difference between hate speech and speech that you hate
I think Black Lives Matter was the stupidest name
When the system's screwing everyone exactly the same
I just wanna spend Thanksgiving Day with food and my family
Without being accused of celebrating native casualties
We got so divided, it's black and white and political
Republicans are bigots, libtards if you're liberal
There's riots in our streets, and it's just getting worse
Y'all screaming, "Defund the police", y'all are genius for sure
They're underfunded already, they're way too busy to work
Order food and call the cops, see what reaches you first

Segregation ended, that's a lie in itself
That was a strategy to make us think they were trying to help
They knew that racism was hot if they designed it to sell
We buy up every single box and divide us ourselves

They so fake woke, facts don't care 'bout feelings
They know they won't tell me what to believe in
They so fake woke, same old safe zones
They so fake woke, facts don't care 'bout your feelings

We use violence to get peace and wonder why it isn't working
That's like sleeping with a football team to try and be a virgin
Politicians are for sale, and someone always makes the purchase
But you and I cannot afford it, our democracy is worthless
If a man has mental illness, call him crazy, say it silently
When country's going crazy, we accept it as society
Get sick and take a pill when the side effects get you high
You get addicted like these rappers dying fighting with sobriety
Censoring the facts turns our children into idiots
They claim it's for our safety, I'll tell you what it really is
Removing information that empowers all the citizens
The truth doesn't damage points of view that are legitimate
They're tryna change amen to a-men and women
How'd we let 'em make praying a microaggression?
Instead of asking God for the strength to keep winning
We cheat to get ahead, and then we ask Him for forgiveness

Feminism used to be the most righteous of fights
But these days it feels like they secretly hate guys
I don't trust anyone who bleeds for a week and don't die
I'm just kidding, but everything else that I said is right

They so fake woke, facts don't care 'bout feelings
They know they won't tell me what to believe in
They so fake woke, same old safe zones
They so fake woke, facts don't care 'bout your feelings


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Re: ...On 'Cancel' Culture

Postby conniption » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:26 am

RT
(embedded links)
Monty Python star John Cleese mocks Hank Azaria’s Apu guilt with apology to ‘English people’… but some don’t get the joke
Image
(L) John Cleese © Koen van Weel / ANP / AFP; (C) 'The Simpsons' Apu © 20th Century Fox Television, Gracie Films; (R) Hank Azaria © Amy Sussman / GETTY IMAGES NORTH AMERICA / Getty Images via AFP

14 Apr, 2021

British actor John Cleese has been both cheered and chastised for ridiculing voice actor Hank Azaria over his apology to “every single Indian person” for his portrayal of Simpsons character Apu.

Azaria drew a mixed response this week when he said sorry for his portrayal of the long-running cartoon’s Indian shopkeeper Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, whose stereotypical identity, the actor said, had helped maintain “structural racism.”

Cleese issued his own humorous take on the political correctness row after many Simpsons fans said Azaria’s comedy did not require him to apologize and accused the actor of trying to be “woke.”

“Not wishing to be left behind by Hank Azaria, I would like to apologise on behalf on Monty Python for all the many sketches we did making fun of white English people,” Cleese said in a tweet on Tuesday. “We’re sorry for any distress we may have caused.”

Cleese’s sarcastic post had garnered over 48,000 likes at the time of publication. Fans replied with their own references to some of the many cultures and identities that featured in Monty Python’s comedy and could therefore potentially claim to be offended...

continues: https://www.rt.com/news/521026-john-cle ... a-apology/

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Meanwhile...

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:41 pm

... Florida just canceled the right to assembly, made it a felony to create the subjective impression among law enforcement that your protest poses a potential risk of property damage even when there isn't any actual damage, and enshrined the right to mass-murder random protesters with a vehicle. Similar laws are in the pipeline in I don't know how many states.

But let's equate whatever 'cancel culture' is supposed to be with totalitarianism and say it's the biggest threat currently going, why the fuck not.
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Re: Meanwhile...

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:26 pm

JackRiddler » 27 Apr 2021 02:41 wrote:... Florida just canceled the right to assembly, made it a felony to create the subjective impression among law enforcement that your protest poses a potential risk of property damage even when there isn't any actual damage, and enshrined the right to mass-murder random protesters with a vehicle. Similar laws are in the pipeline in I don't know how many states.

But let's equate whatever 'cancel culture' is supposed to be with totalitarianism and say it's the biggest threat currently going, why the fuck not.


Why does it need to be either/or? Why does everything need to be hyper-politicized and seen exclusively through the reigning red vs. blue culture war paradigm?

Republican lawmakers and their cult followers clearly suck and are clearly frightening. But it doesn't follow from this that cancel culture is awesome or that I must secretly sympathize with shitty Republicans and their shitty authoritarian laws by even using the phrase "cancel culture" rather than "cultural sensitivity" or whatever the reigning blue-check excuse is for using cancel culture to bludgeon anyone who does not worship at the altar of classless, neoliberal elitist political identitarian orthodoxy.

In other words, as red and blue factions have become increasingly polarized by design both sides have been increasingly driven into the arms of the authoritarians who promise to save them from their supposed arch enemy, aka their fellow citizens who belong to a different political sect. Blue Big Tech authoritarianism is not excused by Red Big Baton authoritarianism.
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Re: Meanwhile... FLORIDA

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:18 pm

stickdog99 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:26 pm wrote:
JackRiddler » 27 Apr 2021 02:41 wrote:... Florida just canceled the right to assembly, made it a felony to create the subjective impression among law enforcement that your protest poses a potential risk of property damage even when there isn't any actual damage, and enshrined the right to mass-murder random protesters with a vehicle. Similar laws are in the pipeline in I don't know how many states.

But let's equate whatever 'cancel culture' is supposed to be with totalitarianism and say it's the biggest threat currently going, why the fuck not.


Why does it need to be either/or? Why does everything need to be hyper-politicized and seen exclusively through the reigning red vs. blue culture war paradigm?


Good question for someone else, maybe you can find them?

Clearly, the panic about "cancel culture" is a point of consensus among many of those leading both the "red" and the "blue" culture war campaigns. Right-wing "liberals" are in fact at the forefront of the cancel culture panic, as they are at the forefront of the conspiracy panic. Even my beloved 92-year-old Noam Chomsky ('I'll sign it, I'll appear on your podcast, I'm lonely') was among the signatories of the statement published in Harper's, itself rather the opposite of a "red" outlet (to which I still subscribe, by the way).

The Florida law repeals protection for the right to assembly and envisions incredible penalties for minor acts of protest, in fact for potential acts of protest not yet committed but considered to be possible in the judgment and whim of law enforcement on the scene. This law can also be applied to an anti-lockdown protest (or your precious harmless Capitol rioters) or anything else LEOs and the state consider dangerous. The same legislation, written by ALEC, is pending in many states, so this isn't just anti-mask Florida.

This is straight totalitarianism. Or, really, that word that sometimes triggers you: fascism, since in Florida it's very much factionally driven and bound to be targeted by race and class. They're barely bothering to disguise this.

Meanwhile, we have an increasingly open and legitimated total surveillance and control state largely run by corporate monopolies, and they target the left first and most effectively. Laws banning speech in favor of BDS are in effect in many states. The first outlets found to be subject to the new Google algorithm censorship, starting a couple of years ago, were communist and leftist groups. The first to discover and reveal Google's policy was the World Socialist Web Site (WSWS), ironically also a big supporter of the inflation of "cancel culture" and "identity politics" as horrible threats that merit more attention than the pervasive global surveillance horrorshow real-existing capitalism is actually bringing into the world.

All that, together with the attack on whistleblowers and new restrictions on leaks of state criminality, is done by the state. It's not the fault of random idiots doing "cancel culture," even if some of them may, for example, also be doing #Russiagate or crowing happily about the fate of Assange. It is also being done by state-adjacent outlets owned by the old-media and the Internet conglomerate-mammoths. These are elements of ruling-class, systemic, fully enforceable totalitarianism, already in a middle or late stage of full imposition. This is where we will see some convergence of ideas like "vaccine passports" and constant speech surveillance (which is actually prohibition of discussing given issues and bodies of knowledge, and above all an assertion of state privilege to cancel fucking anything the state deems cancelable).

In this context, the panic about mean spontaneous Twitter mobs (often of uncertain provenance and background) clamoring for career damage to one or another asshole who might have tweeted an asshole thing (or maybe only appeared to run afoul of some puritan speech prohibition) is of some concern. But we need some fucking perspective on this, do you mind? Actual "cancel culture" from below (if that is what it is, which it probably is most of the time) is minor or irrelevant compared to what the corporate-state-system is doing with the full force of law and law enforcement.

The inflated, corporate-media-driven panic about "cancel culture," however, as though it's some giant scary movement (and if it's a movement, it's rather minor in its power compared to the movement fascism you often trivialize yourself), is in my view a far greater concern than the object of the panic itself.

Cancel Culture Panic (CCP, ha ha) plays a triple role:

- first, for the most part, it distracts and diverts from a major "bipartisan" right-wing state-corporate move toward constant extension of control, surveillance and the means of repression, as well as all the financial profit being derived therefrom;

- second, it often serves to provide welcome justification for elements of this emerging leviathan, to make it look "woke" and "anti-racist" and justified.

- third, it gives fodder to right-wing attacks and contempt for actually legitimate defenses against long-running discrimination, racism, homophobia, etc.

[I could have added that it also affords opportunity to right-wing assholes, generally of the non-liberal or "conservative" strain and already enjoying humonguous platforms and reach and incomes, to posture as victims and courageous freedom fighters. In that, it's a redux of the 1990s "Political Correctness" panic. History, as I keep saying, does not repeat, it just goes on and on.]

All this can seem contradictory, since both "red" and "blue" culture-war devices are deployed to whip up the CC panic.

The resulting direction of the development is consistent, however, generally justifying higher levels of repression and increased power to repress on the part of the institutions that hold a near-monopoly on actual power and know how to use it: against dissent across the political spectrum, but generally speaking always striking first at any hint of effectiveness on the side of leftists (such as they are, in the States) or working-class solidarity movements -- a category to which, by the way, BLM and Antifa generally also belong.

(Those who hold this actual political and legal power, I will remind you again, would be states, institutions of law and law enforcement, the national security complexes, the espionage agencies, corporations and capital, etc. -- as opposed to some whipped-up fans of crappy Disney series mocking Gina Carrano's tweets equating herself with German Jews during the Holocaust, or pointing out that Apu on the Simpsons may be a bit of a racist stereotype.)

Republican lawmakers and their cult followers clearly suck and are clearly frightening. But it doesn't follow from this that cancel culture is awesome or that I must secretly sympathize with shitty Republicans and their shitty authoritarian laws by even using the phrase "cancel culture" rather than "cultural sensitivity" or whatever the reigning blue-check excuse is for using cancel culture to bludgeon anyone who does not worship at the altar of classless, neoliberal elitist political identitarian orthodoxy.


This may be a good point you might make in an argument with someone else whose view of the world and actual statements would be completely unrelated to my own. Maybe you can find that someone and deliver it. You are wasting your time with me.

Blue Big Tech authoritarianism is not excused by Red Big Baton authoritarianism.


They're part of the same bubbling ferment, currently wearing different masks.

I do wonder what on earth would make you react the way you have to what I wrote, when I condemn how the STATE of Florida -- incarcerator of currently ca. 86,000 people and mass-disenfranchiser of nearly a million (until that referendum was effectively stymied by new legislation -- literally repeals the Bill of Rights and the rule of law and establishes new legality for the feudal powers of the cops, that you should write a reply to my condemnation that so thoroughly misrepresents what I wrote (as well as the reality of the various "divides") and sorts it into this kind of total-strawman schema.

The official, open, legal, legitimated, state-driven repeal of the Bill of Rights -- you know, the good part of the Constitution? The one that was actually forced on the Federalist framers? -- is not to be trivialized as some kind of cultural unpleasantry, or to be reduced to the same level as concern about "cancel culture." Also, did you notice the part that effectively incentivizes angry drivers to run random people the fuck over? That's a touch more radical than what's being condemned as "cancel culture," don't you think?

If you respond, read what I fucking wrote. Also, what I wrote before.

ON THREATS TO FREEDOMS OF SPEECH AND THE PRESS

Thanks.

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Re: ...On 'Cancel' Culture

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:47 am

If HMW were around what would he think of these two songs?

This one



and this one

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Re: ...On 'Cancel' Culture

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:27 pm

I read what you wrote. You are wholly correct that censorship and repression of expression is always used most and most effectively against any left wing movement that dares to promote class consciousness.

But, frankly, I still don't get "it". Do you actually think Chomsky is pathetically wrong to cling to ideals like intellectual freedom because of far more sinister whataboutism? Because, forgive me, but that's my condensed version of what you wrote.

Was the ACLU wrong to defend the Nazis right to march in Skokie, IL when I was a child? Is it wrong to champion principles of freedom of expression for everyone on principle?

What I don't understand is why I can't agree with you on basically everything you said, but still be dismayed by the fact that political identitarianism has been used, is being used, and will be used in the future as a weapon to bludgeon anyone our oligarchs deem remotely threatening for any reason, just as it was against so-called TERFs, Julian Assange, Mark Crispin Miller, Alex Morse, Bernie Sanders, and even Shahid Buttar.
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Re: ...On 'Cancel' Culture

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:48 pm

The Florida law repeals protection for the right to assembly and envisions incredible penalties for minor acts of protest


I've not read the entire legislation, but what I've read so far indicates it is about rioting. Are you suggesting that burning, looting and damaging property is considered assembly protected by #1?

I'm a huge supporter of our rights, but also recognize it's ridiculous to think rioting is protected. That is laughable. I'm not necessarily opposed to rioting in all cases, but generally the peaceful protesting most people would engage in will not get them arrested. Where does all this fear of being arrested at a protest come from Jack?
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Re: ...On 'Cancel' Culture

Postby DrEvil » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:01 pm

Florida Today goes through the main points:

https://eu.floridatoday.com/story/news/ ... 335086002/

What's in the anti-riot law and how will it play out? Brevard could be first to know

Alessandro Marazzi Sassoon | Florida Today


With rallies planned by activists in Brevard on Friday and Orlando on Saturday in response to the deaths of Black men and teens in Florida at the hands of law enforcement, the state's new "anti-riot" law could be facing its first test since being signed into statute Monday by Governor Ron DeSantis.

The law has been assailed by critics as an assault on civil liberties and praised by defenders as a badly needed measure to protect law enforcement and public order. But at 61 pages long in bill form, many wonder: what's actually in the statute and how will it be applied?

FLORIDA TODAY spoke with legal experts: criminal defense attorneys, a public defender, a sheriff, a city attorney, a first amendment expert and others.

Volusia County Sheriff Mike Chitwood said he plans to make no changes to his policing philosophy but is also waiting for his agency's lawyers to draft legal bulletins for how deputies should apply provisions.

"I have no doubt that this is going to end up in front of the Supreme Court," Chitwood said.

"It's a nightmare of commas," said Brevard-based criminal defense attorney Jessica Travis.

And while the loudest critics of the law have been on the left, concern among those who looked at the wording carefully crosses party lines.

Bob White, the chairman of the Republican Liberty Caucus of Florida urged Republican legislators to vote against it and all 11 members of the RLC's legislative affairs committee opposed it. In the end only one GOP legislator, State Senator Jeff Brandes of St. Petersburg, broke ranks.

While White said the RLC supported some aspects of the law, such as stiffer penalties for attacking cops and protections for monuments, a key concern mirrors that of progressive activists: White is worried it could be used against conservative protesters.

"There are provisions in the bill that could lead to unintended consequences, allowing liberal prosecutors or other elected officials to shut down peaceful conservative protest gatherings and go after the organizers," White said.

The Florida Conference of Catholic Bishops testified in opposition to the law over concern about protests in front of abortion clinics being shut down.

How the law will be applied will largely depend on who your sheriff, police chief and state attorney are, and who you are.

With some Brevard residents planning to rally in response to State Attorney Phil Archer's Wednesday decision to not bring charges against a Brevard County Sheriff's deputy who shot and killed two Black teens in Cocoa, Central Florida could be ground zero in how the law is applied.

Brevard County Sheriff Wayne Ivey, who, according to Governor DeSantis, championed the law and was instrumental in its creation, told a news conference Monday that it gave the police the "teeth" they needed. Neither Ivey nor Archer agreed to be interviewed for this story.

The law covers a lot of ground. It amends existing statutes, changing definitions and increasing penalties. It also creates an unelected and unaccountable bureaucracy that can overrule law enforcement budget decisions made locally.

It changes civil liability for damages and creates several new crimes: mob intimidation, cyberintimidation by publication, rioting and aggravated rioting. It also defines the destruction of historical markers, memorials or statues as distinct crimes. It also sets a mandatory minimum jail time of six months for the assault or battery of a law enforcement officer "in the furtherance of a riot."

Many of these new provisions are interlinked, hinging on the new definition of what constitutes a riot.

Kara Gross the Legislative Director and Senior Policy Counsel for the ACLU of Florida likened it to "a house of cards."

No 'defunding' the police

A key portion of the law limits the ability of a municipality to reduce the operating budget of a law enforcement agency if an objection is raised by either the state attorney or a city council member.

This means that if the City of West Melbourne sees fit to reduce the operating budget of West Melbourne Police, no matter the reason, a single dissenting city council member, or State Attorney Archer, can overrule that vote. They do so by filing an objection within 30 days to a newly created "Administration Commission."

A city only has five working days to file a response to the office of the governor before this commission, whose membership is undefined, holds a hearing and within 30 days makes a budget decision that is "final."

"It bothers me because I think cities should have the ability through their elected officials to decide what their community needs in regards to public safety," said Blaise Trettis, the Public Defender for Brevard and Seminole Counties.

Morris Richardson, the City Attorney for West Melbourne, agrees.

While Richardson doesn't expect any "defund the police" movement in his City Hall, fluctuations in the operating budget can happen for good reason. For example, the fact that his police department is providing fewer School Resources Officers next year because one school contracted with the county could result in a budget reduction. Under the law, this could be challenged.

Cyberintimidation by Publication

One new provision in the statute is aimed at curbing online harassment, also known as "doxxing," where people publish identifying information online, such as a name, phone number or address, resulting in digital and real-world harassment. Some say, while well-intentioned, the statute is too vague.

The law says it's unlawful to post someone's personal information online "with the intent to, or with the intent that a third party will use the information to: (a) Incite violence or commit a crime against the person; or (b) Threaten or harass the person..."

Trettis said "That is so broadly written, that I think that's subject to abuse, and it's a rather drastic reduction in freedom of speech, in that regard."

"It does require intent on your part but how can intent be determined? That's always difficult, so I really think that is a bad part of the bill," he said.

FLORIDA TODAY's counsel, Edward L. Birk echoed Trettis' concerns, calling the language "unconstitutionally vague."

"This section will chill First Amendment speech including speech by news media of all types including bloggers," he said in an email.

Frank LoMonte, an attorney and director of the University of Florida's Brechner Center for Freedom of Information, said that any abuse would result from police deviating from what he reads as the intent of the law.

"If the police read the law and if the state's attorney reads the law, they will see that news coverage is not what the law pertains to, but it certainly opens up a risk that, especially a thin-skinned person or a person balking at being the topic of news coverage could at least attempt to get the police interested in bringing a case," he added.

Mob Intimidation

The law also makes mob intimidation a crime, a first degree misdemeanor, which if violated, also precludes bail prior to first appearance, meaning you're likely to spend at least a night in jail if arrested under this provision.

According to the law, it's illegal for three or more people, acting with "a common intent, to use force or threaten to use imminent force, to compel or induce, or attempt to compel or induce, another person to do or refrain from doing any act or to assume, abandon, or maintain a particular viewpoint against his or her will."

Travis, the defense attorney, said the way the law is written, "I couldn't tell you what that means."

What's more an individual threatening force against someone verbally is already defined as assault under statute, and using force is battery, both of which carry stiff penalties.

If you and a friend are standing next to someone who is committing assault, are you on the hook for their actions? Is the threat or imminent threat of force a requirement to the attempt to compel or induce? If your mom, dad and brother were to try to force you to make different life choices, are they in violation of the law? Lawyers say maybe.

"It's incredibly overly broad and vague, hard to know what conduct would constitute mob intimidation," said Gross of the ACLU. "It could be a very heated debate."

"Who makes that determination? When do they make that determination based on what, what criteria are they using under this bill? The result of this is that you could be arrested for up to a year in jail," Gross said.

Permits and unlawful assembly

Prior to the law, Florida had a blanket protection from permit requirements for political campaigning on the public right-of-way.

But the new law makes no accommodation for that.

Now someone can be arrested, and held without bail, for participating in an unlawful assembly. This could now include any gathering of three or more people that is not specifically permitted. Simply "standing on or remaining in the street, highway, or road" is now a civil infraction under the new law. If three or more people are doing that it's an unlawful assembly with the chance for arrest on a second degree misdemeanor charge without the ability to post bail before first appearance, according to the ACLU's Gross.

In Brevard, Trump flag wavers standing by the causeways could theoretically find themselves in hot water if local ordinances require a permit for that activity.

"The potential for inhibiting peaceful demonstrations from taking place is significant," the RLC's White said.

Rioting and Aggravated Rioting

Perhaps the most contentious section of the law is the new definition for a "riot" and the crime of "aggravated rioting."

A riot, a third degree felony, which comes with the loss of voting rights, is now defined as willfully participating "in a violent public disturbance involving an assembly of three or more persons, acting with a common intent to assist each other in violent and disorderly conduct, resulting in: (a) Injury to another person; (b) Damage to property; or (c) Imminent danger of injury to another person or damage to property."

Attorneys say the way the provision is written opens up broad interpretations. One reading is such that if a protest has violent elements, then even the non-violent demonstrators can be arrested.

"Everyone is on the hook," says White of the RLC. "And depending on where you live in Florida, you might have a prosecutor that's more prone to go after, you know, one side or the other."

Sheriff Chitwood in Volusia County said his approach will always be to identify, extricate and arrest only the violent elements of a crowd.

"Common sense has to prevail in some of these things," he said, but "at the end of the day it is going to be the courts that resolve how this gets done."

The same applies to aggravated rioting, which Gross from ACLU says builds upon the vagueness of the riot definition.

"Committing a riot means being present at a protest that turns violent for no fault of your own, because that's how it is defined," she said, adding that even if you have no role in the violence you could be charged with aggravated rioting if the gathering is more than 25 people. Aggravated rioting is a second degree felony which carries a sentence of up to 15 years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

"Again, you have not engaged in any violent conduct. There is just 25 or more people participating in that same demonstration," she said.

Liability for cities and individuals

Lastly, the bill drastically changes who can be held accountable for violence related to a protest or riot.

If an individual is injured or killed at a protest, the ability for the victim or their family to sue for damages is now curtailed.

The law provides an "affirmative defense" if the defendant can prove that the plaintiff "might have been" rioting, according to Gross.

"It's so broad that it could cover and protect and embolden anybody to harm or kill or injure a protester," Gross said.

The law also expands liability for cities that do not "allow the municipal law enforcement agency to respond appropriately to protect persons and property during a riot or an unlawful assembly."

It lifts the cap for damages in a lawsuit. This, according to the ACLU creates an incentive for police to be excessively violent in their response.

"Now the incentive to respond with an over militarized response is so much greater, because they will be on the hook for unlimited damages, if anything would happen," said Gross.
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Re: ...On 'Cancel' Culture

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:36 pm

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Re: Meanwhile... FLORIDA

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:09 pm

JackRiddler » 28 Apr 2021 08:18 wrote:
stickdog99 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:26 pm wrote:
JackRiddler » 27 Apr 2021 02:41 wrote:... Florida just canceled the right to assembly, made it a felony to create the subjective impression among law enforcement that your protest poses a potential risk of property damage even when there isn't any actual damage, and enshrined the right to mass-murder random protesters with a vehicle. Similar laws are in the pipeline in I don't know how many states.

But let's equate whatever 'cancel culture' is supposed to be with totalitarianism and say it's the biggest threat currently going, why the fuck not.


Why does it need to be either/or? Why does everything need to be hyper-politicized and seen exclusively through the reigning red vs. blue culture war paradigm?


Good question for someone else, maybe you can find them?

Clearly, the panic about "cancel culture" is a point of consensus among many of those leading both the "red" and the "blue" culture war campaigns. Right-wing "liberals" are in fact at the forefront of the cancel culture panic, as they are at the forefront of the conspiracy panic. Even my beloved 92-year-old Noam Chomsky ('I'll sign it, I'll appear on your podcast, I'm lonely') was among the signatories of the statement published in Harper's, itself rather the opposite of a "red" outlet (to which I still subscribe, by the way).

The Florida law repeals protection for the right to assembly and envisions incredible penalties for minor acts of protest, in fact for potential acts of protest not yet committed but considered to be possible in the judgment and whim of law enforcement on the scene. This law can also be applied to an anti-lockdown protest (or your precious harmless Capitol rioters) or anything else LEOs and the state consider dangerous. The same legislation, written by ALEC, is pending in many states, so this isn't just anti-mask Florida.

This is straight totalitarianism. Or, really, that word that sometimes triggers you: fascism, since in Florida it's very much factionally driven and bound to be targeted by race and class. They're barely bothering to disguise this.

Meanwhile, we have an increasingly open and legitimated total surveillance and control state largely run by corporate monopolies, and they target the left first and most effectively. Laws banning speech in favor of BDS are in effect in many states. The first outlets found to be subject to the new Google algorithm censorship, starting a couple of years ago, were communist and leftist groups. The first to discover and reveal Google's policy was the World Socialist Web Site (WSWS), ironically also a big supporter of the inflation of "cancel culture" and "identity politics" as horrible threats that merit more attention than the pervasive global surveillance horrorshow real-existing capitalism is actually bringing into the world.

All that, together with the attack on whistleblowers and new restrictions on leaks of state criminality, is done by the state. It's not the fault of random idiots doing "cancel culture," even if some of them may, for example, also be doing #Russiagate or crowing happily about the fate of Assange. It is also being done by state-adjacent outlets owned by the old-media and the Internet conglomerate-mammoths. These are elements of ruling-class, systemic, fully enforceable totalitarianism, already in a middle or late stage of full imposition. This is where we will see some convergence of ideas like "vaccine passports" and constant speech surveillance (which is actually prohibition of discussing given issues and bodies of knowledge, and above all an assertion of state privilege to cancel fucking anything the state deems cancelable).

In this context, the panic about mean spontaneous Twitter mobs (often of uncertain provenance and background) clamoring for career damage to one or another asshole who might have tweeted an asshole thing (or maybe only appeared to run afoul of some puritan speech prohibition) is of some concern. But we need some fucking perspective on this, do you mind? Actual "cancel culture" from below (if that is what it is, which it probably is most of the time) is minor or irrelevant compared to what the corporate-state-system is doing with the full force of law and law enforcement.

The inflated, corporate-media-driven panic about "cancel culture," however, as though it's some giant scary movement (and if it's a movement, it's rather minor in its power compared to the movement fascism you often trivialize yourself), is in my view a far greater concern than the object of the panic itself.

Cancel Culture Panic (CCP, ha ha) plays a triple role:

- first, for the most part, it distracts and diverts from a major "bipartisan" right-wing state-corporate move toward constant extension of control, surveillance and the means of repression, as well as all the financial profit being derived therefrom;

- second, it often serves to provide welcome justification for elements of this emerging leviathan, to make it look "woke" and "anti-racist" and justified.

- third, it gives fodder to right-wing attacks and contempt for actually legitimate defenses against long-running discrimination, racism, homophobia, etc.

[I could have added that it also affords opportunity to right-wing assholes, generally of the non-liberal or "conservative" strain and already enjoying humonguous platforms and reach and incomes, to posture as victims and courageous freedom fighters. In that, it's a redux of the 1990s "Political Correctness" panic. History, as I keep saying, does not repeat, it just goes on and on.]

All this can seem contradictory, since both "red" and "blue" culture-war devices are deployed to whip up the CC panic.

The resulting direction of the development is consistent, however, generally justifying higher levels of repression and increased power to repress on the part of the institutions that hold a near-monopoly on actual power and know how to use it: against dissent across the political spectrum, but generally speaking always striking first at any hint of effectiveness on the side of leftists (such as they are, in the States) or working-class solidarity movements -- a category to which, by the way, BLM and Antifa generally also belong.

(Those who hold this actual political and legal power, I will remind you again, would be states, institutions of law and law enforcement, the national security complexes, the espionage agencies, corporations and capital, etc. -- as opposed to some whipped-up fans of crappy Disney series mocking Gina Carrano's tweets equating herself with German Jews during the Holocaust, or pointing out that Apu on the Simpsons may be a bit of a racist stereotype.)

Republican lawmakers and their cult followers clearly suck and are clearly frightening. But it doesn't follow from this that cancel culture is awesome or that I must secretly sympathize with shitty Republicans and their shitty authoritarian laws by even using the phrase "cancel culture" rather than "cultural sensitivity" or whatever the reigning blue-check excuse is for using cancel culture to bludgeon anyone who does not worship at the altar of classless, neoliberal elitist political identitarian orthodoxy.


This may be a good point you might make in an argument with someone else whose view of the world and actual statements would be completely unrelated to my own. Maybe you can find that someone and deliver it. You are wasting your time with me.

Blue Big Tech authoritarianism is not excused by Red Big Baton authoritarianism.


They're part of the same bubbling ferment, currently wearing different masks.

I do wonder what on earth would make you react the way you have to what I wrote, when I condemn how the STATE of Florida -- incarcerator of currently ca. 86,000 people and mass-disenfranchiser of nearly a million (until that referendum was effectively stymied by new legislation -- literally repeals the Bill of Rights and the rule of law and establishes new legality for the feudal powers of the cops, that you should write a reply to my condemnation that so thoroughly misrepresents what I wrote (as well as the reality of the various "divides") and sorts it into this kind of total-strawman schema.

The official, open, legal, legitimated, state-driven repeal of the Bill of Rights -- you know, the good part of the Constitution? The one that was actually forced on the Federalist framers? -- is not to be trivialized as some kind of cultural unpleasantry, or to be reduced to the same level as concern about "cancel culture." Also, did you notice the part that effectively incentivizes angry drivers to run random people the fuck over? That's a touch more radical than what's being condemned as "cancel culture," don't you think?

If you respond, read what I fucking wrote. Also, what I wrote before.

ON THREATS TO FREEDOMS OF SPEECH AND THE PRESS

Thanks.

.


Can i quote the majority of this on a footy website I visit. Its fucken brilliant.

I'll attribute it to you, with your RL name if you want.
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Re: Meanwhile... FLORIDA

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:29 am

Joe Hillshoist » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:09 pm wrote:
Can i quote the majority of this on a footy website I visit. Its fucken brilliant.

I'll attribute it to you, with your RL name if you want.


Thank you. Yes, quote whatever you like. No, no need for RL name, JackRiddler will do. (As if this makes a difference.) JR is real but a persona, while Mr. RL would have to write that in English, not telegraphic theoryspeak, with citations, etc. Thanks again.

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