'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:41 am

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:43 am

Joe Hillshoist » 03 Apr 2022 12:17 wrote:The only thing about blackfellas in detention in the NT that that Parenti fellow mentioned was those three kids jumping the fence at Howard Springs. He is just using those kids as props in his own bullshit story.


How in the fuck do you figure that Parenti's story is bullshit?

Do you have cogent criticism of Parenti's article or just more bs, reflexive "I am the Lorax and I speak for the blackfellas" outrage?
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:31 pm

stickdog99 » 07 Apr 2022 16:43 wrote:
Joe Hillshoist » 03 Apr 2022 12:17 wrote:The only thing about blackfellas in detention in the NT that that Parenti fellow mentioned was those three kids jumping the fence at Howard Springs. He is just using those kids as props in his own bullshit story.


How in the fuck do you figure that Parenti's story is bullshit?

Do you have cogent criticism of Parenti's article or just more bs, reflexive "I am the Lorax and I speak for the blackfellas" outrage?


Its not a box, its a room, with wiondows and a door. People are allowed out. They are there for two weeks. Why is it some sort of repression to let people out again? No one should lose their job in those circumstances. there should be legal protections around losing your job because of covid iso. Tho it is the NT you are talking about.

In the NT every child in juvenille detention is indigenous.

Not every child in the NT is indigenous, maybe half, but every one in kid prison is. That is an actual fucken outrage. Not some half arsed attempt to quarantine people who live in high density housing, for lack of a better term.

The sort of police effort put into chasing those three young kids who jumped the fence at Howard Springs is not something unusual wrt chasing young black kids in the NT but that article is making out that it is an unusual thing.

Aerial surveillance, vehicle searches and checkpoints - it happens all the time up there and it doesn't happen because of covid, it happens cos those kids and their communities are black.
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby stickdog99 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:00 am

Sure. But how does that somehow negate the thrust of the whole article?

How does that make the whole article bullshit?

You have one tiny, little point about the writer being outraged by something little within the context of something that he should have realized that he should have had a far larger scope of outrage about.

Doesn't that exactly apply to your own reaction to Parenti's entire article? He is pissed that the "progressive" left basically shot itself in the foot, arm, and head by siding with Big Pharma against bodily autonomy and the working class and for repression and censorship. His mention of anything in Australia is totally tangential to his larger point.
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby stickdog99 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:25 pm

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:47 pm

stickdog99 » 08 Apr 2022 16:00 wrote:Sure. But how does that somehow negate the thrust of the whole article?

How does that make the whole article bullshit?

You have one tiny, little point about the writer being outraged by something little within the context of something that he should have realized that he should have had a far larger scope of outrage about.

Doesn't that exactly apply to your own reaction to Parenti's entire article? He is pissed that the "progressive" left basically shot itself in the foot, arm, and head by siding with Big Pharma against bodily autonomy and the working class and for repression and censorship. His mention of anything in Australia is totally tangential to his larger point.


I don't disagree with the rest of his article but I do expect more from that particular writer who is usually pretty clued up about that sort of thing.

Considering Australia as an example of despotism because of covid - that is ridiculous. And I'm really over people doing that. Especially because if they followed up on this stuff they'd find blackfellas in the territory no longer give a shit about those quarantine issues, they are inconvenient sure but indigenous people in Australia are the most vulnerable population to covid and have had fuck all real support in dealing with it. they are more likely to accept the covid response as a necessary temporary inconvenience than actual repression and given they know what actual repression feels like its worth taking that on board.

Not everyone agrees with that, but the people who do the most work (imo) making their communities function against shitloads of odds, people like the fat health bureaucrat who copped alot of racist shit on here while he was in quarantine, they aren't bothered by that issue. They are very angry about incarceration rates, associated lack of access to legal support, general failures in the medical system and I could go on and on cos that's just the start.

What Parenti said about the global south and repression after covid is pretty spot on tho. I dunno if you know or not but in 2019 there were riots across the world against austerity, fuel and food prices, government repression (obvious egs blm and hong kong) and whatever else there was pissing people off. Obviously some of the response to covid is directed at conrolling that but its not what we're experiencing in Australia.

Anti vaxxers had an "occupy Spring Street" thing going on in the Victorian parliament for months during the lock down and it was treated better than the original occupy movements were. They weren't subject to any of the shit that is happening to other people round the world right now. repression of anti war protestors in Russia, of anyone challenging the dominant narrative in Ukraine, or racial minorities in ukraine for example. they weren't shot or even just bashed by coppers the way people at protests and riots I've attended for decades are.

Its a fucken joke that people take that stuff about "Australia falling" seriously.

The reality is the majority agreed to a temporary social contract that enabled lockdown and other restrictions on freedom in return for a plan to keep covid out of the country until we'd all been vaccinated. More by groupthink than overt agreement and it certainly wasn't debated or questioned publicly. And by the end of that process people were sick of it and had just stopped obeying those restrictions. Even now in NSW masks aren't compulsory everywhere but people choose to wear them.
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:01 am

stickdog99 » 08 Apr 2022 16:00 wrote:Sure. But how does that somehow negate the thrust of the whole article?

How does that make the whole article bullshit?

You have one tiny, little point about the writer being outraged by something little within the context of something that he should have realized that he should have had a far larger scope of outrage about.

Doesn't that exactly apply to your own reaction to Parenti's entire article? He is pissed that the "progressive" left basically shot itself in the foot, arm, and head by siding with Big Pharma against bodily autonomy and the working class and for repression and censorship. His mention of anything in Australia is totally tangential to his larger point.


[quote="stickdog99 » 08 Apr 2022 16:00"
Doesn't that exactly apply to your own reaction to Parenti's entire article? He is pissed that the "progressive" left basically shot itself in the foot, arm, and head by siding with Big Pharma against bodily autonomy and the working class and for repression and censorship. His mention of anything in Australia is totally tangential to his larger point.[/quote]


Did it?

This is the assumption, but its not the "progressive left" nor the "working class".

In Australia in 2020 someone got covid on a plane to the US and died. they were youngish, healthy and had minimal co mordities of anysort. They were on a work trip and had been provided a mask or masks to wear on the plane for their own safety, tho they chose not to wear them iirc.

Their surviving partner sued their employer and in the end won, possibly in the high court. It was their employer's responsibility to keep them safe from covid and providing a mask and instructing them to wear it wasn't enough of a protection even when it was shown they didn't wear the mask and ignored their employer's instructions. That wasn't enough to negate the employer's negligence.

Mask and vaccine mandates, lockdowns and everything else also has to be seen within the context of that decision, atr least in Australia. We have very strong OH&S protections. Maybe they have gone too far, and I'm in favour oif them very pro workplace safety etc etc. I've worked with some serious machinery over the years, had kevlar chaps save my legs and work mates legs many times when using chainsaws for example... any of those incidents that were effectively 10 minutes of pita fucking around to clean the chain and check the chaps would have been a crippling life changing injury without that protective gear. The stuff exists for a reason anbd if we're goinna have a state run things then this is the sort of thing it should do - mandate worker safety.

Anyway that court outcome is a result of the attitudes here that lead to situations like having to wear kevlar chaps at work if you're using or around a chainsaw.

Once that decision was made mandatory vaccinations at work were always gonna happen simply because employers would want to protect their own arses from legal responsibility.

You can make all those other arguments, and they are reasonable, but they need to to take this into account. It needs to be debated reasonably and with good faith on both sides.

Altho I completely agree with what is probably your first response to that - why the fuck didn't the government etc show that good faith straight up that doesn't mean we should follow their example. its not a case of they didn't do it so why should we.
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:27 pm

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:59 am

Wait a minute ... is he complaining about the end of that empire.

The rest of the world is cheering.
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:38 am

@WATCHMEBURNDOW1
·
Apr 11

20 Million people are starving to death in Yemen. Kids are being murdered. The UN says it's the greatest humanitarian crisis in history. But you won't see any celebs raising funds for it because it's not paying as well as Ukraine.

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https://twitter.com/WATCHMEBURNDOW1/sta ... j1w5B0_v1A
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:40 am

.

This belongs here as well, unfortunately. There's a reason the words 'liberals' and 'leftists' are in quotes in the thread title.


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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:59 pm

@gnocchiwizard
·
people on the left-liberal spectrum are more and more open about simply not wanting to live in a pluralistic society.

this rigid internal homogeneity of thought (and increasingly of ritualistic behaviors e.g. masking) coincides with the collapse of the left's hegemony over american culture, something they're mostly blind to because the economic and political scales haven't tipped yet (they will)

and it isn't dogmatism. the clamps are coming down on internal dissent as the boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable become increasingly arbitrary, strange new rules that arrive fully formed out of nowhere and are enforced like they've always been axiomatic.

https://twitter.com/gnocchiwizard/statu ... m7Pc-BBqqA
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Apr 17, 2022 11:37 am

@JeffWellsRigInt
·
It's 2022. Everyone a liberal calls a fascist is almost certainly not. Every choice a liberal calls the lesser evil is decidedly not.
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:19 pm

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun May 01, 2022 2:11 pm

.
Increasingly absurd takes from the "left":

@PMDawnStan
·
What happened to lefties?

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@Gurippusan
Replying to @PMDawnStan

anti-small business is my favorite lefty discourse. It's so openly hostile and resentful.

@PMDawnStan
·
I'm honestly wondering if they're just down low sliding into a corporatist POV because the right has turned anti-corporate, or because the corporations have gone whole hog into woke advertising

https://twitter.com/PMDawnStan/status/1 ... sx1BNtwmFg
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