'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Harvey » Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:05 am

mentalgongfu2 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:43 am wrote:
norton ash » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:58 pm wrote:Screw the messengers, the more people who receive the news that they've been tricked, hypnotized, bamboozled... the better. It's been two years now, friends, wake the fuck up.


It's not prudent to dismiss the source of the message, especially when they are using their claims and assertions to bolster the white supremacist proto-facist arm of the Republican party in America and around the world. Quite the opposite.


I'm not quite able to extract your intended meaning. It appears as though you may be claiming that all of the scientists, doctors and renowned thinkers cited all the way down all the threads occupied by Covid related matters are right wing white supremacists, stupid idiots and acting in bad faith, perhaps to pollute your precious bodily fluids? But I can't quite tell from this. ^ (Even as those you do place trust in are actually polluting your mind and body.)

Perhaps you're attempting to say that TheRightᵀᴹ* are capitalising on the good faith arguments of these people for their own purposes. If so, that is undoubtedly true. But reveals a certain cynicism on your part, suggesting that you might well see the above cited credible witnesses as broadly correct but choose to dismiss them because it isn't TheLeftᵀᴹ who are spooning it out.

*As I've pointed out before, 'the Left' in America, as far as such a description was ever meaningful, was for a long time, more than somewhat to the right of much of the rest of the world - before seventy plus years of American re-education of the world bore the majestic fruit we see around us today.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby norton ash » Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:13 pm

It's not prudent to dismiss the source of the message, especially when they are using their claims and assertions to bolster the white supremacist proto-facist arm of the Republican party in America and around the world. Quite the opposite.


I never 'dismiss' the source... right-wing sites in Canada are especially useful for their coverage of government and vax-hyping shenanigans, but that doesn't mean I won't reject their Christofascist stance on other matters. Meanwhile, no mainstream paper or site will touch RFK Jr's book The Real Dr. Fauci, the #1 bestseller on Amazon for weeks--- no reviews, and no coverage as a news story. (Search for a review and see.) So screw the messengers, a pox on both their houses. If it's useful, and I think it's true, I'll share it. For example, I hate the Post Millenial, but it challenges our unhinged stooge of a 'Liberal' PM effectively where others won't.

https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/sta ... sl7mmP5evA

Edited to add a story form the unreliable right-wing Moonie Washington Times. Fuck those guys, but we can use stories like this one.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ert-kenne/
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:15 pm

.

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Harvey » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:18 pm



Very good.

Random thoughts... Reminds me of the famous quote by Eric Hoffer: “What monstrosities would walk the streets were some people's faces as unfinished as their minds.”

Everyone has a response to it, as such a visceral image. But from observed responses to it, these are almost always expressed as believing the quote applies very well to someone else. Few explicitly describe how well it applies to themselves or their own fear and insecurity. From my perspective, my own anger, fear, insecurity and compulsion are the surest guide I have to those of others and so I sometimes study them. I study what I do, then I relate what I do to what I have said. The disparity is always revealing and helps me seperate what I actually believe from what I want to believe.

I tend not to make a savage criticism of someone else unless it first applies to me also, if only to keep me slightly more honest than I would otherwise be. This doesn't help me to combat a multi billion dollar outrage factory which only exploits all our finer feelings, viewing them as a 'vulnerabilities' to be exploited. But it does help to protect me against becoming an unconscious component of that same machine.

In this instance, if it were expressed from the viewpoint of "My Lawn" and "My Mind" etc, it might well be twice as subversive, being an open invitation to valuable introspection. The powers that be only want introspection on their terms, let us never oblige them!
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:31 pm

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby stickdog99 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:40 pm

The author of the passage below makes some salient points, but just can't seem to break free of the bullshit Left vs. Right paradigm.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news ... atrick.net

For many years—most of my politically cognizant life, in fact—I felt secure in my politics. Truth and justice, I believed, leaned leftward. If you were some version of a decent human being, you cared about those less fortunate than you, which meant that you supported a whole host of measures designed to even the playing field a little. Sometimes, these measures had unintended consequences (see under: Stalin, Josef), but that wasn’t reason enough to despair of the long march to equality. Besides, there was hardly an alternative: On the other end of the political transom lurked despicable creeps, right-wing orcs who either cared for nothing but their own petty financial interests or, worse, pined for benighted isms that preached prejudice and hate. We were on the right side of history. We were the people. We were the ones giving peace a chance. And, no matter the present, we were always the future.

This belief carried me through high school, and a brief stint in a socialist youth movement. It accelerated me in college, sending me anywhere from joint marches with Palestinians to a two-week hunger strike in Jerusalem trying (and failing) to lower tuition for underprivileged students. It pulled me to New York, to Columbia University, to more left-wing politics and activism and raging against Republicans whose agenda, especially in the 2000s, seemed like nothing more than greed and war.

And it wasn’t just an ideology, some abstract set of convictions that were accessible only through cracking open dusty old books. It was the animating spirit of life itself: The dinner parties I attended on the Upper West Side required dismissive comments on President Bush just as much as they did a bit of wine to make the evening bright, and there was no faster or surer way to signal to a new acquaintance that you were a kindred spirit than praising the latest Times editorial. It wasn’t performative, exactly. At least, it felt real enough, the reverent rites of a good group of people protecting itself against the bad guys.

I embraced my people, and my people embraced me. They gave me everything I had always imagined I wanted: a Ph.D. from an Ivy League university; a professorship at NYU, complete with a roomy office overlooking Washington Square Park; book deals; columns in smart little publications; invitations to the sort of soirees where you could find yourself seated next to Salman Rushdie or Susan Sontag or any number of the men and women you grew up reading and admiring. The list goes on. Life was good. I was grateful.

And then came The Turn. If you’ve lived through it yourself, you know that The Turn doesn’t happen overnight, that it isn’t easily distilled into one dramatic breakdown moment, that it happens hazily and over time—first a twitch, then a few more, stretching into a gnawing discomfort and then, eventually, a sense of panic.

You may be among the increasing numbers of people going through The Turn right now. Having lived through the turmoil of the last half decade—through the years of MAGA and antifa and rampant identity politics and, most dramatically, the global turmoil caused by COVID-19—more and more of us feel absolutely and irreparably politically homeless. Instinctively, we looked to the Democratic Party, the only home we and our parents and their parents before them had ever known or seriously considered. But what we saw there—and in the newspapers we used to read, and in the schools whose admission letters once made us so proud—was terrifying. However we tried to explain what was happening on “the left,” it was hard to convince ourselves that it was right, or that it was something we still truly believed in. That is what The Turn is about.

You might be living through The Turn if you ever found yourself feeling like free speech should stay free even if it offended some group or individual but now can’t admit it at dinner with friends because you are afraid of being thought a bigot. You are living through The Turn if you have questions about public health policies—including the effects of lockdowns and school closures on the poor and most vulnerable in our society—but can’t ask them out loud because you know you’ll be labeled an anti-vaxxer. You are living through The Turn if you think that burning down towns and looting stores isn’t the best way to promote social justice, but feel you can’t say so because you know you’ll be called a white supremacist. You are living through The Turn if you seethed watching a terrorist organization attack the world’s only Jewish state, but seethed silently because your colleagues were all on Twitter and Facebook sharing celebrity memes about ending Israeli apartheid while having little interest in American kids dying on the streets because of failed policies. (stickdog commentary: WTF?) If you’ve felt yourself unable to speak your mind, if you have a queasy feeling that your friends might disown you if you shared your most intimately held concerns, if you are feeling a bit breathless and a bit hopeless and entirely unsure what on earth is going on, I am sorry to inform you that The Turn is upon you.

The Turn hit me just a beat before it did you, so I know just how awful it feels. It’s been years now, but I still remember the time a dear friend and mentor took me to lunch and warned me, sternly and without any of the warmth you’d extend to someone you truly loved, to watch what I said about Israel. I still remember how confusing and painful it felt to know that my beliefs—beliefs, mind you, that, until very recently, were so obvious and banal and widely held on the left that they were hardly considered beliefs at all—now labeled me an outcast. The Turn brings with it the sort of pain most of us don’t feel as adults; you’d have to go all the way back to junior high, maybe, to recall a stabbing sensation quite as deep and confounding as watching your friends all turn on you and decide that you’re not worthy of their affection any more. It’s the kind of primal rejection that is devastating precisely because it forces you to rethink everything, not only your convictions about the world but also your idea of yourself, your values, and your priorities. We all want to be embraced. We all want the men and women we consider most swell to approve of us and confirm that we, too, are good and great. We all want the love and the laurels; The Turn takes both away.

But, having been there before, I have one important thing to tell you: If the left is going to make it “right wing” to simply be decent, then it’s OK to be right.

(So, it's pretty obvious that this guy's myopic support of Israel's genocide of Palestinians is what turned him against "the Left", but this at least gives him an interesting "outsider" perspective.)

Why? Because, after 225 long and fruitful years of this terminology, “right” and “left” are now empty categories, meaning little more than “the blue team” and “the green team” in your summer camp’s color war. You don’t get to be “against the rich” if the richest people in the country fund your party in order to preserve their government-sponsored monopolies. You are not “a supporter of free speech” if you oppose free speech for people who disagree with you. You are not “for the people” if you pit most of them against each other based on the color of their skin, or force them out of their jobs because of personal choices related to their bodies. You are not “serious about economic inequality” when you happily order from Amazon without caring much for the devastating impact your purchases have on the small businesses that increasingly are either subjugated by Jeff Bezos’ behemoth or crushed by it altogether. You are not “for science” if you refuse to consider hypotheses that don’t conform to your political convictions and then try to ban critical thought and inquiry from the internet. You are not an “anti-racist” if you label—and sort!—people by race. You are not “against conformism” when you scare people out of voicing dissenting opinions.

When “the left” becomes the party of wealthy elites and state security agencies who preach racial division, state censorship, contempt for ordinary citizens and for the U.S. Constitution, and telling people what to do and think at every turn, then that’s the side you are on, if you are “on the left”—those are the policies and beliefs you stand for and have to defend. It doesn’t matter what good people “on the left” believed and did 60 or 70 years ago. Those people are dead now, mostly. They don’t define “the left” anymore than Abraham Lincoln defines the modern-day Republican Party or Jimi Hendrix defines Nickelback.

So look at the list of things supported by the left and ask yourself: Is that me? If the answer is yes, great. You’ve found a home. If the answer is no, don’t let yourself be defined by an empty word. Get out. And once you’re out, don’t let anyone else define you, either. Not being a left-wing racist or police state fan doesn’t make you a white supremacist or a Trump worshipper, either. Only small children, machines, and religious fanatics think in binaries.

Which isn’t to diminish the anger, hurt, and confusion you’re feeling just now. But it’s worth understanding that your story has a happy ending. The freedom you feel on the other side is so real it’s physical, like emerging from a long stretch underwater and taking that first deep breath in the cool afternoon air. None of it makes the lost friends or the lost career opportunities any less painful; but there’s no more potent source of renewable energy than liberty, and your capacity to reinvent—yourself, your group, your life—is greater than you realize.

So welcome to the right side, friend, and join us in laughing at all the idiotic name-calling that is applied, with increasing hysteria, to try and stop more and more normal Americans from joining our ranks. Fascists? Conspiracy theorists? Anti-science racist TERFs? Whatever. We have a better word to describe ourselves: free.
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:06 am

stickdog99 » 11 Dec 2021 10:40 wrote:The author of the passage below makes some salient points, but just can't seem to break free of the bullshit Left vs. Right paradigm.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news ... atrick.net

For many years—most of my politically cognizant life, in fact—I felt secure in my politics. Truth and justice, I believed, leaned leftward. If you were some version of a decent human being, you cared about those less fortunate than you, which meant that you supported a whole host of measures designed to even the playing field a little. Sometimes, these measures had unintended consequences (see under: Stalin, Josef), but that wasn’t reason enough to despair of the long march to equality. Besides, there was hardly an alternative: On the other end of the political transom lurked despicable creeps, right-wing orcs who either cared for nothing but their own petty financial interests or, worse, pined for benighted isms that preached prejudice and hate. We were on the right side of history. We were the people. We were the ones giving peace a chance. And, no matter the present, we were always the future.

This belief carried me through high school, and a brief stint in a socialist youth movement. It accelerated me in college, sending me anywhere from joint marches with Palestinians to a two-week hunger strike in Jerusalem trying (and failing) to lower tuition for underprivileged students. It pulled me to New York, to Columbia University, to more left-wing politics and activism and raging against Republicans whose agenda, especially in the 2000s, seemed like nothing more than greed and war.

And it wasn’t just an ideology, some abstract set of convictions that were accessible only through cracking open dusty old books. It was the animating spirit of life itself: The dinner parties I attended on the Upper West Side required dismissive comments on President Bush just as much as they did a bit of wine to make the evening bright, and there was no faster or surer way to signal to a new acquaintance that you were a kindred spirit than praising the latest Times editorial. It wasn’t performative, exactly. At least, it felt real enough, the reverent rites of a good group of people protecting itself against the bad guys.

I embraced my people, and my people embraced me. They gave me everything I had always imagined I wanted: a Ph.D. from an Ivy League university; a professorship at NYU, complete with a roomy office overlooking Washington Square Park; book deals; columns in smart little publications; invitations to the sort of soirees where you could find yourself seated next to Salman Rushdie or Susan Sontag or any number of the men and women you grew up reading and admiring. The list goes on. Life was good. I was grateful.

And then came The Turn. If you’ve lived through it yourself, you know that The Turn doesn’t happen overnight, that it isn’t easily distilled into one dramatic breakdown moment, that it happens hazily and over time—first a twitch, then a few more, stretching into a gnawing discomfort and then, eventually, a sense of panic.

You may be among the increasing numbers of people going through The Turn right now. Having lived through the turmoil of the last half decade—through the years of MAGA and antifa and rampant identity politics and, most dramatically, the global turmoil caused by COVID-19—more and more of us feel absolutely and irreparably politically homeless. Instinctively, we looked to the Democratic Party, the only home we and our parents and their parents before them had ever known or seriously considered. But what we saw there—and in the newspapers we used to read, and in the schools whose admission letters once made us so proud—was terrifying. However we tried to explain what was happening on “the left,” it was hard to convince ourselves that it was right, or that it was something we still truly believed in. That is what The Turn is about.

You might be living through The Turn if you ever found yourself feeling like free speech should stay free even if it offended some group or individual but now can’t admit it at dinner with friends because you are afraid of being thought a bigot. You are living through The Turn if you have questions about public health policies—including the effects of lockdowns and school closures on the poor and most vulnerable in our society—but can’t ask them out loud because you know you’ll be labeled an anti-vaxxer. You are living through The Turn if you think that burning down towns and looting stores isn’t the best way to promote social justice, but feel you can’t say so because you know you’ll be called a white supremacist. You are living through The Turn if you seethed watching a terrorist organization attack the world’s only Jewish state, but seethed silently because your colleagues were all on Twitter and Facebook sharing celebrity memes about ending Israeli apartheid while having little interest in American kids dying on the streets because of failed policies. (stickdog commentary: WTF?) If you’ve felt yourself unable to speak your mind, if you have a queasy feeling that your friends might disown you if you shared your most intimately held concerns, if you are feeling a bit breathless and a bit hopeless and entirely unsure what on earth is going on, I am sorry to inform you that The Turn is upon you.

The Turn hit me just a beat before it did you, so I know just how awful it feels. It’s been years now, but I still remember the time a dear friend and mentor took me to lunch and warned me, sternly and without any of the warmth you’d extend to someone you truly loved, to watch what I said about Israel. I still remember how confusing and painful it felt to know that my beliefs—beliefs, mind you, that, until very recently, were so obvious and banal and widely held on the left that they were hardly considered beliefs at all—now labeled me an outcast. The Turn brings with it the sort of pain most of us don’t feel as adults; you’d have to go all the way back to junior high, maybe, to recall a stabbing sensation quite as deep and confounding as watching your friends all turn on you and decide that you’re not worthy of their affection any more. It’s the kind of primal rejection that is devastating precisely because it forces you to rethink everything, not only your convictions about the world but also your idea of yourself, your values, and your priorities. We all want to be embraced. We all want the men and women we consider most swell to approve of us and confirm that we, too, are good and great. We all want the love and the laurels; The Turn takes both away.

But, having been there before, I have one important thing to tell you: If the left is going to make it “right wing” to simply be decent, then it’s OK to be right.

(So, it's pretty obvious that this guy's myopic support of Israel's genocide of Palestinians is what turned him against "the Left", but this at least gives him an interesting "outsider" perspective.)

Why? Because, after 225 long and fruitful years of this terminology, “right” and “left” are now empty categories, meaning little more than “the blue team” and “the green team” in your summer camp’s color war. You don’t get to be “against the rich” if the richest people in the country fund your party in order to preserve their government-sponsored monopolies. You are not “a supporter of free speech” if you oppose free speech for people who disagree with you. You are not “for the people” if you pit most of them against each other based on the color of their skin, or force them out of their jobs because of personal choices related to their bodies. You are not “serious about economic inequality” when you happily order from Amazon without caring much for the devastating impact your purchases have on the small businesses that increasingly are either subjugated by Jeff Bezos’ behemoth or crushed by it altogether. You are not “for science” if you refuse to consider hypotheses that don’t conform to your political convictions and then try to ban critical thought and inquiry from the internet. You are not an “anti-racist” if you label—and sort!—people by race. You are not “against conformism” when you scare people out of voicing dissenting opinions.

When “the left” becomes the party of wealthy elites and state security agencies who preach racial division, state censorship, contempt for ordinary citizens and for the U.S. Constitution, and telling people what to do and think at every turn, then that’s the side you are on, if you are “on the left”—those are the policies and beliefs you stand for and have to defend. It doesn’t matter what good people “on the left” believed and did 60 or 70 years ago. Those people are dead now, mostly. They don’t define “the left” anymore than Abraham Lincoln defines the modern-day Republican Party or Jimi Hendrix defines Nickelback.

So look at the list of things supported by the left and ask yourself: Is that me? If the answer is yes, great. You’ve found a home. If the answer is no, don’t let yourself be defined by an empty word. Get out. And once you’re out, don’t let anyone else define you, either. Not being a left-wing racist or police state fan doesn’t make you a white supremacist or a Trump worshipper, either. Only small children, machines, and religious fanatics think in binaries.

Which isn’t to diminish the anger, hurt, and confusion you’re feeling just now. But it’s worth understanding that your story has a happy ending. The freedom you feel on the other side is so real it’s physical, like emerging from a long stretch underwater and taking that first deep breath in the cool afternoon air. None of it makes the lost friends or the lost career opportunities any less painful; but there’s no more potent source of renewable energy than liberty, and your capacity to reinvent—yourself, your group, your life—is greater than you realize.

So welcome to the right side, friend, and join us in laughing at all the idiotic name-calling that is applied, with increasing hysteria, to try and stop more and more normal Americans from joining our ranks. Fascists? Conspiracy theorists? Anti-science racist TERFs? Whatever. We have a better word to describe ourselves: free.


This person was never really on the left to begin with.

Its funny how the label "the left" has been stolen from the left by the bourgeois and now they want to convince everyone it doesn't exist any more.
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Grizzly » Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:21 am

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This is fine...
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:01 am

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:12 pm

Democrats are seriously dangerous

COVID-19: Democratic Voters Support Harsh Measures Against Unvaccinated

Thursday, January 13, 2022

While many voters have become skeptical toward the federal government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic, a majority of Democrats embrace restrictive policies, including punitive measures against those who haven’t gotten the COVID-19 vaccine.

A new Heartland Institute and Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 48% of voters favor President Joe Biden’s plan to impose a COVID-19 vaccine mandate on the employees of large companies and government agencies. That includes 33% who Strongly Favor the mandate. Forty-eight percent (48%) are opposed to Biden’s vaccine mandate, including 40% who Strongly Oppose the mandate. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

Voters are similarly divided over the federal government’s top COVID-19 expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci. Forty-five percent (45%) view Fauci favorably, including 28% who have a Very Favorable impression of him. Forty-eight percent (48%) have an unfavorable impression of Fauci, including 34% who have a Very Unfavorable view of him.

The even split among voters is the result of deep partisan divisions. While 78% of Democratic voters support the Biden administration’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate plan, only 22% of Republicans and 41% of voters not affiliated with either major party support the vaccine mandate. And many Democrats would support even harsher measures, including fines for Americans who won’t get the COVID-19 vaccine and criminal punishment for vaccine critics.

“After two excruciatingly long years, likely voters are beginning to question the federal government’s handling of the pandemic,” said Chris Talgo, senior editor and research fellow at The Heartland Institute, which commissioned this poll. “First and foremost, likely voters are beginning to sour on Dr. Anthony Fauci, who seems to have lost credibility after countless flip-flops.”

Talgo continued: “Moreover, almost half of likely voters oppose President Biden’s vaccine mandates, which seem less about stopping the spread of COVID-19 and more about increasing the power of the federal government. When asked about several other potential strategies, such as fining those who refuse to get vaccinated, the consensus among likely voters is that the federal government should do less, not more.”

The survey of 1,016 U.S. Likely Voters was conducted on January 5, 2022 by the Heartland Institute and Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

The survey found that 75% of likely Democratic voters – but only 21% of Republicans and 38% of unaffiliated voters – have a favorable opinion of Dr. Fauci. Among other findings of the survey:

– Fifty-eight percent (58%) of voters would oppose a proposal for federal or state governments to fine Americans who choose not to get a COVID-19 vaccine. However, 55% of Democratic voters would support such a proposal, compared to just 19% of Republicans and 25% of unaffiliated voters.

Fifty-nine percent (59%) of Democratic voters would favor a government policy requiring that citizens remain confined to their homes at all times, except for emergencies, if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine. Such a proposal is opposed by 61% of all likely voters, including 79% of Republicans and 71% of unaffiliated voters.

Nearly half (48%) of Democratic voters think federal and state governments should be able to fine or imprison individuals who publicly question the efficacy of the existing COVID-19 vaccines on social media, television, radio, or in online or digital publications. Only 27% of all voters – including just 14% of Republicans and 18% of unaffiliated voters – favor criminal punishment of vaccine critics.

Forty-five percent (45%) of Democrats would favor governments requiring citizens to temporarily live in designated facilities or locations if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine. Such a policy would be opposed by a strong majority (71%) of all voters, with 78% of Republicans and 64% of unaffiliated voters saying they would Strongly Oppose putting the unvaccinated in “designated facilities.”

– While about two-thirds (66%) of likely voters would be against governments using digital devices to track unvaccinated people to ensure that they are quarantined or socially distancing from others, 47% of Democrats favor a government tracking program for those who won’t get the COVID-19 vaccine.

How far are Democrats willing to go in punishing the unvaccinated? Twenty-nine percent (29%) of Democratic voters would support temporarily removing parents’ custody of their children if parents refuse to take the COVID-19 vaccine. That’s much more than twice the level of support in the rest of the electorate – seven percent (7%) of Republicans and 11% of unaffiliated voters – for such a policy.

The survey also found that more black voters (63%) than whites (45%), Hispanics (55%) or other minorities (32%) support Biden’s vaccine mandate for government workers and employees of large companies.

President Biden’s strongest supporters are most likely to endorse the harshest punishments against those who won’t get the COVID-19 vaccine. Among voters who have a Very Favorable impression of Biden, 51% are in favor of government putting the unvaccinated in “designated facilities,” and 54% favor imposing fines or prison sentences on vaccine critics. By contrast, among voters who have a Very Unfavorable view of Biden, 95% are against “designated facilities” for the unvaccinated and 93% are against criminal punishment for vaccine critics.

As the Omicron variant of COVID-19 produces a spike in cases nationwide, about three-quarters of Americans are already vaccinated against the coronavirus, and two-thirds of those have gotten booster shots.

Most Americans are concerned about new variants of the COVID-19 virus, but Democrats are more concerned than others, and place more trust in vaccines to protect against the disease.
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby liminalOyster » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:40 am

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:50 pm

Occupy Democrats@OccupyDemocrats

BREAKING: A 31-year-old father is denied a heart transplant for refusing to get vaxxed because "organs are scarce" and shouldn't go to someone "with a poor chance of surviving" when the common cold can kill after surgery.
RT IF YOU SUPPORT THE HOSPITAL MAKING THE TOUGH CALL!

7:27 pm. · 25. Jan. 2022

3,884 Retweets 1,643 Quote Tweets 10,773 Likes
https://twitter.com/OccupyDemocrats/sta ... 9310673921
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:35 pm

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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:59 am

stickdog99 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:35 pm wrote:https://twitter.com/aimeeterese/status/1484204872480489473?s=20


A minor example of how predetermined positions influence what one hears. First of all, Perry is not functionally 'liberal' or 'leftist'. She is a hired corporate performer who variably plays these roles (and others) on television, depending on what she and her producers believe will work for ratings, advertising, and keeping their preferred influential sources happy. (All of these are interest-based but also inseparably ideological, it is true.) Second, and notwithstanding, this snippet of vague platitudes and the specific quoted matter ('We have to break through this idea that kids belong to their parents, or kids belong to their families') is misinterpreted and blown up in the retweets into some revelation of evil intent to treat children as property of society or the state (to a greater extent than the norm until now?) and as indicative of What All Liberals Really Are. Obvious that the meaning here is that the fate of children shouldn't rely on the income and status of their parents, that children shouldn't be the exclusive liability of their parents, to the detriment of their welfare, that the burdens should be shared broadly within society. (It's just as obvious that she's just mouthing generalities to advertise how much she cares, win over her audience's sympathies, etc. This isn't an announcement of support for an imminent expropriation of children, it's vague support for more welfare state that will be forgotten next time her program switches back to some other crisis to blather on about. And I don't want to hear that by bothering to point this out I am 'defending' this annoying figure whom I don't even watch.)
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Re: 'Liberals'/'Leftists' in America

Postby Harvey » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:45 am

All valid observations and I agree with them. Let's take a moment to note the logical fallacies.

1. The proposition that we have never invested enough in education because we have had the wrong notions about parenthood. "a kind of a private notion of children."

Have we? Really? And if so, is that really the problem? This argument avoids almost every important aspect of what education is, what it is for, why it is what it is and lastly, what it is not but might or should be.

2. "Your kid is yours...we haven't had a collective notion that these are our children".

And yet the two propositions are not mutually exclusive. Nor is anyone arguing any causal link between the first proposition and any perceived lack of collective involvement. Until now.

3. "We have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents" [why?] "or kids belong to their families" [again, why?] "and recognise that kids belong to whole communities."

If it is legitimate to discuss children as property in this way, rather than as sovereign, sentient beings, how is this 'private idea' of children 'belonging to their parents' antithetical to the idea that children are also part of a larger community? We don't know. It isn't discussed. There seems no obvious connection.

4. "Once it is everybody's responsibility and not just the household's, then we start making better investments."

Apart from the faux naivete built into this assumption, and even if children were to considered as an investment portfolio, there is no logical connection which exists between what a capitalist society invests in and whether parents have the 'private notion' that their children's well being is primarily their own responsibility and whether or not we have functioning communities capable of adding to their nurture and development.

As you say, this sounds like a corporate argument spoken by a corporate mouthpiece. Vague, fuzzy, non-specific and a prime example of 'nudge'. Nothing to do with 'Liberalism' as such, and therefore not a good advertisement for the thread except to discuss how Liberal thought is little more than an adjunct to commerce, much as it has always been.

Where I disagree with you Jack, is that nothing about this segment is obvious, nor does it promote any communitarian sentiment. To the contrary, it is designed to confuse and to conflate unrelated ideas in a way likely to deceive, worthy of note because of what so many of us have observed lately. States are, at this moment, forcing children to have known and unknown toxins injected into their bodies. Little that has happened anywhere in relation to Covid has developed from any kind of communitarian intention whatsoever, except at the fringes where we all live.

Very likely, this is precisely an announcement in support of an imminent expropriation of children. Or at least part of a campaign against 'irresponsible' parents who deny their children 'life saving' medication. If it were alone in expressing these vague but directed sentiments and not part of a wave of similar obfuscatory arguments about parental responsibility, I wouldn't give it a moments thought.

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