Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby dada » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:37 pm

"minting trillion-dollar coins."

Love it. I didn't watch or listen, just read the promo in the post above. I can't say as I agree with the philosophy part, soul of public money is the soul of humankind is the soul of democracy. Maybe he gets into it, explains his logic, shows his work.

I don't know if I can get with the idea that the internet, media footprint is your soul. Kind of superstitious, like believing that when someone takes your picture, the camera caputres your soul.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:00 pm

Why not mint a quadrillion dollar coin?
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby DrEvil » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:11 pm

Kinda hard to get change.
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby Elvis » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:40 pm

dada wrote:Maybe he gets into it, explains his logic, shows his work.


https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=3536440

Administering Money: Coinage, Debt Crises, and the Future of Fiscal Policy

Cornell Legal Studies Research Paper Forthcoming

74 Pages Posted: 2 Oct 2020
Rohan Grey

Cornell University, Law School; Binzagr Institute for Sustainable Prosperity

Date Written: February 11, 2020
Abstract

The power to coin money is a fundamental constitutional power and central element of fiscal policymaking, along with spending, taxing, and borrowing. However, it remains neglected in constitutional and administrative law, despite the fact that money creation has been central to the United States’ fiscal capacities and constraints since at least 1973, when it abandoned convertibility of the dollar into gold. This neglect is particularly prevalent in the context of debt ceiling crises, which emerge when Congress fails to grant the executive sufficient borrowing authority to finance spending in excess of taxes. In such instances, prominent legal and economic scholars have argued that the President should choose the “least unconstitutional option” of breaching the debt ceiling, rather than impeding on Congress’s even more fundamental powers to tax and spend. However, this view fails to consider a fourth, arguably more constitutional option: minting a high value coin under an obscure provision of the Coinage Act, and using the proceeds to circumvent the debt ceiling entirely. Reintroducing coinage into our fiscal discourse raises novel and interesting questions about the broader nature of, and relationship between “money” and “debt.” It also underscores how legal debates over fiscal policy implicate broader social myths about money. As we enter the era of digital currency, creative legal solutions like high value coinage have the potential to serve as imaginative catalysts that enable us to collectively develop new monetary myths that better fit our modern context and needs.

Keywords: administrative law, constitutional law, law of money, macroeconomics, monetary theory, federal budget policy, public finance

Suggested Citation:




DrEvil wrote:Kinda hard to get change.


The coin is deposited at the central bank and the Treasury "writes checks" on it, to pay out Congressional appropriations.


Agent Orange Cooper wrote:Why not mint a quadrillion dollar coin?


Why not, indeed! The trillion-dollar coin is a gimmick, but so is the kabuki dance of selling & buying bonds to "finance' appropriations. It makes it crystal clear to everyone that the government creates the money it spends; it could just as well be a quadrillion dollars.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby dada » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:46 pm

I meant maybe he explains the logic of the philosophy underpinning his theories. Shows his philosophical work. He may have some good ideas, I don't know. Alls I'm saying is that I can't take the guy seriously if his philosophy is weak.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby Elvis » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:42 pm

Jon Stewart’s quip that “if we're just gonna make sh*t up,
I say go big or go home. How about a $20 trillion dollar coin?”258 is revealing,
in that it demonstrates how the sheer size of a number as large
as $1 trillion can be so psychologically disruptive as to break any residual
subconscious linkage between the nominal face value of coins and
their underlying metallic content.


Instead, the prospect of minting a “trillion dollar coin” confronts the
public directly with the reality of the “big monetary infinity sign in the
sky,”259 and in doing so, forces us to collectively grapple with the economic
and cultural implications of the state’s money creation power. For
professional clowns like Stewart, that confrontation may, as Buchanan
observes, represent little more than an opportunity to “expose the fundamentally
unreal nature of money to public ridicule.”260 But for other,
more thoughtful, segments of the population, it represents an opportunity
to imaginatively reclaim the public fisc from the austere clutches of red
ink, overburdened grandchildren, bond vigilantes, and empty coffers.


(From the paper linked above.)
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby Elvis » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:57 pm

If this isn't philosophical, I dunno what is:

Reintroducing coinage into our fiscal discourse raises novel and interesting questions about the broader nature of, and relationship between “money” and “debt.” It also underscores how legal debates over fiscal policy implicate broader social myths about money. As we enter the era of digital currency, creative legal solutions like high value coinage have the potential to serve as imaginative catalysts that enable us to collectively develop new monetary myths that better fit our modern context and needs.


My impression of Grey's philosophy can be summed up, "public money"; i.e., the money system that we all use and depend on to facilitate exchange should be owned, engineered and managed publicly—collectively—by the polity, as opposed to being controlled by random private actors.
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:02 pm

.

Yes, because they've done such a good job at it, historically, eh? Well, for a (increasingly smaller) minority, such management has worked out well.
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby Elvis » Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:25 pm

Belligerent Savant » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:02 pm wrote:.

Yes, because they've done such a good job at it, historically, eh? Well, for a (increasingly smaller) minority, such management has worked out well.


Historically, it's all an experimental learning process. The money-system technocrats are getting better at it—e.g., no problematic inflation in the US for 30 years; allowing a few private-actor "free marketeers" to write self-serving rules is when shit really gets fucked up and bullshit.
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:31 pm

.

Outside the earnest policy-makers involved, what's the net result for the majority (particularly the labor/working classes) to this point?

Doesn't look good, but perhaps that's a separate topic.
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby dada » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:11 pm

"For professional clowns like Stewart, that confrontation may, as Buchanan
observes, represent little more than an opportunity to “expose the fundamentally
unreal nature of money to public ridicule.”260 But for other,
more thoughtful, segments of the population, it represents an opportunity
to imaginatively reclaim the public fisc from the austere clutches of red
ink, overburdened grandchildren, bond vigilantes, and empty coffers."

Isn't this basically saying that these more thoughtful segments of the population wish to double down on the unreal nature of money?

My issue with the philosophy was about the angle in the book promo post, where he's talking about soul this and that. Maybe that part is just for marketing, catchy book title and stuff. But for me, when someone starts in with grand ideas about all humankind and matters of soul, they better have their metaphysical ducks in a row. Otherwise they lose me. Maybe better if they didn't go there, even.

I guess my point is don't half-ass metaphysics. It will always undercut your argument.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby Elvis » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:14 pm

Belligerent Savant » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:31 pm wrote:.

Outside the earnest policy-makers involved, what's the net result for the majority (particularly the labor/working classes) to this point?

Doesn't look good, but perhaps that's a separate topic.


I guess we should ask, "which policies?" Monetary policy—the central banks' struggle to maintain a stable currency with high employment levels, along with the design of money itself—is the sort of bedrock on which the fiscal & regulatory policies follow. It all needs work, operating on bad starting assumptions, the primary one being that "the free markets decide!!!"
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby Elvis » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:19 pm

"the unreal nature of money" — is an inch "real"?

Government defines money just as it sets standards for other weights & measures. Money is originally based on weights & measures, including time; a dollar is a unit of measure.
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby dada » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:50 pm

So let's say I'm building a house. I have a warehouse full of wood, but I can't build until I get my allotment of inches to measure it with.

The situation is absurd, clearly. To conclude that the answer to my problem is to make more inches is already one level down the absurd gopherhole.

What are my other options? I don't know. Maybe just break the rules and build the house anyway.
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Re: Blockchain/Digital Currency as part of 'The Great Reset'

Postby Elvis » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:43 pm

dada wrote:So let's say I'm building a house. I have a warehouse full of wood, but I can't build until I get my allotment of inches to measure it with.

The situation is absurd, clearly. To conclude that the answer to my problem is to make more inches is already one level down the absurd gopherhole.


This assumes you have the resources—the warehouse of wood—to start. Where did the wood come from? In most cases, the wood has to be acquired, usually by purchase. So do the nails, the glass, the foundation concrete, the plumbing pipes and the electrical wires and fixtures, and all of the required tools etc. Not to mention the expertise of plumbers, electricians, glaziers etc., in the event the solo builder lacks these skills.

Fungible money makes it easy to make these exchanges, by measuring the relative values of the raw materials. (Bartering for real stuff can't achieve this level of trade on any scale.)

You might get the dollars needed to build a house from existing savings, or from a bank loan, or from a grant by the government. Savings doesn't make more dollars ("inches"), while bank loans and government outlays do make more dollars; either way, the point is that it'll be very difficult to build a house without any dollars.
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