The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

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The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:29 pm

.

Cross-posting to help frame/provide a primer of sorts (Mods are welcome to revise the title):

Joe Hillshoist » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:09 am wrote:I dunno if this belongs here or not?

Read this twitter thread:

Is it real?

And if so how do we all get in on this?

https://twitter.com/williamlegate/statu ... 7874671616


JackRiddler » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:41 am wrote:.

Consider this the main thread for Wall Street and finance.

Though the old Wall Street thread dating back to 2009 or any other you want to bump is fine too, right.

Here's an education on what's unfolded -- this guy is great at explaining it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EUbJcGoYQ4

Watch it.

Okay, back already? So Gamestop isn't evidence of a bubble. (Of course there's a bubble, duh.) It's evidence of a scam within the bubble. The scam was fucking hedge funds over-shorting the stock of a retail company, because they can. They shorted more shares' worth than exist. This means they have to buy those shares eventually, to end their liability. Note what this means in terms of supply and demand: They're forced to buy more than 100 percent of the shares! Because of their own motherfucking hedge-funders' scam, which was to short the shares all the way down to zero, making huge returns long as it never went up. Beautiful Reddit trolls (for this case we'll call them that) and just regular day-trading folks figured that out, since it's an open market and everyone can see there's shorts out for more than 100 percent. So they're buying Gamestop shares, which they know the hedge funds have to buy eventually, and refusing to sell. So after the scammer hedge-funds drove it down from 25 to 3 by shorting, the small-investor pirates bought it and watched it hit, like 192. And the hedge funds involved are going to go under, unless they can create some kind of terrorism narrative to deploy against the Redditors and day traders in this case, as though they're the ones who manipulated the market.

I can see how these kinds of manifestations can cause general FUD and trigger panic behaviors all around.

Anyway, what you posted Hillshoist is interesting: except for spinning it as though it starts with Reddit fucking the hedge funds, rather than months earlier on Wall Street with the hedge funds scamming and fucking Gamestop.

See new Tweets
Tweet
William LeGate
@williamlegate
·
19h
/r/WallStreetBets about to blowup another hedge fund, this one valued at $13.1 BILLION before the Reddit trolls decided to all buy GameStop lol
Image

William LeGate
@williamlegate
·
19h
Up nearly 100% just today, after being up about 100% yesterday lol tell me we're not in a bubble
Image
William LeGate
@williamlegate
·


It's a minor symptom of a galactic-sized bubble, and Fuck Melvin.

19h
If GameStop goes up another 17%, this hedge fund will instantly collapse. $13.1 billion gone. Poof.
William LeGate
@williamlegate
·


Oh golly gee no! Not a precious value-creating hedge fund going poof, instead of the evil-dinosour medium retail chain store they tried to burn out of business.

19h
Elon Musk just tweeted about the stock & they're now trading at $192 after-hours… if they open at this price, Melvin Capital will go bankrupt tomorrow morning. $13.1 billion in wealth transferred from Wall St to Reddit trolls.
William LeGate
@williamlegate
·
19h
What we're witnessing isn't a traditional pump & dump… it is an unorganized, yet collective effort of memelords & avg Americans to completely ignore all market fundamentals &, thru the power of social media, bankrupt hedge funds overnight, taking their funds. Legality unclear.
Image
William LeGate
@williamlegate
·


You gotta be shitting me. Legality unclear! How about being able to do naked shorts, eh? How about a market being allowed to short a stock for more than 100 percent of its total shares?

18h
Reddit is also in the process of meme-ifying AMC stock to revive it from the dead… this is like the Occupy Wall Street movement but on their own turf & with real financial consequences. Incredible.


Seriously, they're going to try to make rescuing these motherfuckers be Yellen's first action in office.

Seriously watch the video though if you just came to this story for the first time today.

.


Belligerent Savant » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:36 pm wrote:.
.

Listening to that excellent summation in full (the youtube clip shared by JR above); as good as the entire clip is, the first ~minute is worth transcribing here, as it offers a recurring theme Re: events over the past ~year (arguably, since humans became landowners):

...i'd like talk about market manipulation, wall street bets, the mainstream media, institutional investors and how they are trying to completely pull the wool over your eyes so that you blame the wrong group of people for what's been going on today. This makes me incredibly, incredibly angry and aggravated, because what they're doing in a lot of the articles that i'm reading, is they are framing the argument to prime the pump for you to be mad at someone that you shouldn't be mad at. They don't want you to be mad at the institutional investor; they don't want you to be mad at the greedy hedge fund manager; they want you to be mad at someone, just like you, who's typing on their keyboard some funny crap during work, posting little rocket ship emojis and buying stock -- and most of the time, what i see from the posts, a fairly small quantity. Now to be clear here, just because i am getting up here to to talk to you about the BS that money managers and hedge fund managers and institutional investors are trying to get across does not mean that i agree wholeheartedly with everything that i see posted on the wall street bets forum. Just because i dislike the money managers that appear to be pushing what i believe to be a false narrative, doesn't mean i sign off on everything i read here....

...at this point in time i believe that you are hearing only one side.


That's right. It's an over-simplification to a degree, but this summarizes some of the key machinations behind the madness we've experienced across the board -- not just 'Wall Street'.

It's not only that "they" have the money to be able to pull this off, it's also that they have the MEDIA -- their ubiquitous megaphones -- to help MISDIRECT and FALSE FRAME, keeping many in the dark, or confused, about just how hard they're being raped on a number of levels.

The other noteworthy insight by Louis Rossmann (the 'narrator' of the youtube clip) is this bit here, at about the ~15:40 mark:

...so a bunch of people that had nothing better to do because they probably lost their jobs because they're considered non-f'g essential by andrew cuomo said, "okay listen i got nothing better to do with my day, let me just go through every single stock in the market and see what shares are available short, and compare that to their book value, or their total equity, or their cash on hand", or whatever, and a bunch of people did that because they have a bunch of time too because they also have no job to go to and they found gamestop and they say, "hhhmm mm..."


How poetic. The filthy vile agenda that discarded these souls to 'non-essential' status was one of the key factors in allowing such persons to have the downtime to identifiy EGREGIOUS MANIPULATION that otherwise likely would have gone largely unnoticed, or otherwise, even if it may have been noticed in a 'non-lockdown world', there wouldn't have been as many with the necessary amount of time and impetus to pull this feat.

Image

It's not so simple as this, and it may not last long, but we need more of this spirit.


Joe Hillshoist » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:42 pm wrote:
JackRiddler » 28 Jan 2021 02:41 wrote:.



Anyway, what you posted Hillshoist is interesting: except for spinning it as though it starts with Reddit fucking the hedge funds, rather than months earlier on Wall Street with the hedge funds scamming and fucking Gamestop.


.



Look I get that. I guess it was more ... to quote Maxi Jazz of faithless ... "The poetic justice of cause and effect."

Karma mother fuckers!!!

My understanding of what happened here was that this was an attempt to fuck the hedge fund simply to get revenge for them destroying or trying to destroy a gaming business (Gamestop), driven by gamers and financial types on reddit. I dunno if it was driven by making money out of the situation or not but my impression is it was more about revenge that profit.
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Institutional vs 'Retail' Investors - Occupy 2021

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:36 pm

.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/you-c ... own-buying



Robinhood Reportedly Selling People’s GME Positions Without Warning, Investors Sue

Update 1445 EST: Users are starting to report that Robinhood is selling their GME shares without warning. Screenshots like the one below are starting to make their rounds on social media. Meanwhile, platforms like Webull and Merrill Edge have also joined in the restrictions.

Image

Update 1430 EST: The list of high-profile people who are infuriated with Robinhood's decision to stop retail investors from trading shares of GME (along with several other companies) has continued to grow. While retail traders were effectively shut out of the market, leaving institutional investors to do what they pleased, a disparate group of public figures, including "Democratic" socialist Congresswoman AOC and world's richest man Elon Musk, banded together to slam Robinhood and its peers.

Musk agreed with AOC's tweet where she said:

"This is unacceptable. We now need to know more about @RobinhoodApp's decision to block retail investors from purchasing stock while hedge funds are freely able to trade the stock as they see fit. As a member of the Financial Services Cmte, I'd support a hearing if necessary."


Musk also agreed with one twitter user who said "make shorting illegal"...

Yes
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) January 28, 2021


As we noted earlier, Barstool's David Portnoy has been infuriated by Robinhood's decision.

Portnoy tweeted,

"PRISON TIME. Dems and Republicans haven't agreed on 1 issue till this. That's how blatant, illegal, unfathomable today's events are. It also shows how untouchable @RobinhoodApp @StevenACohen2C Citadel Point72 all think they are. Fines aren't enough. Prison or bust."



... and believe it or not, Steven Cohen, founder of hedge fund Point72 Asset Management, who with Citadel bailed out Melvin Capital for their Gamestop short, responded to Portnoy and said,

"Hey Dave, What's your beef with me. I'm just trying to make a living just like you. Happy to take this offline."


Barstool's founder responded by saying,

"I don't do offline. That's where shady shit happens. You bailed out Melvin cause he's you're boy along with Citadel. I think you had a strong hand in today's criminal events to save hedge funds at the cost of ordinary people. Do you unequivocally deny that?"


Cohen responded:

"What are you talking about? I unequivocally deny that accusation. I had zero to do with what happened today Btw, If I want to make an additional investment with somebody that is my right if it's in the best interest of my investors Chill out"


Speaking of today's events, Chamath Palihapitiya tweeted,

"In moments of uncertainty, when courage and strength are required, you find out who the true corporatist scumbags are."


We wonder who Palihapitiya is speaking of when he mentions "who the true corporatist scumbags are."

Update 1232 EST:

Following the outrage of stock manipulation from AOC, Brendon Nelson (presumably a Robinhood user), sued Robinhood Financial LLC, Robinhood Securities, LLC, and Robinhood Markets, Inc. in the Southern District of New York this afternoon for "removing Gamestop from its trading platform."

The lawsuit reads:

"Robinhood purposefully, willfully, and knowingly removing the stock "GME" from its trading platform in the midst of an unprecedented stock rise thereby deprived retail investors of the ability to invest in the open-market and manipulating the open-market."


Image

Social media users on Twitter were infuriated by the trade restrictions Robinhood and other discount brokerages placed on clients this morning. Some said:

"Now add TD Ameritrade who did the same yesterday and had price manipulated /price fixed/ caused MV buying power destabilizations, that affected not just these stocks. and they did not have the same trading rules on aftermarket or premarket when Institutions covered took profits," on Twitter user said.

Now add TD Ameritrade who did the same yesterday and had price manipulated /price fixed/ caused MV buying power destabilizations, that affected not just these stocks. and they did not have the same trading rules on aftermarket or premarket when Institutions covered took profits
— JulianneLov (@jriceput18) January 28, 2021

"Does this suit mention Robinhood's relationship with Citadel, who are deeply interested in the shorting of GME?" someone else said.

Does this suit mention Robinhood's relationship with Citadel, who are deeply interested in the shorting of GME?
— Biden Removes Visa Restrictions on Kyrgyzstan (@Ayyyyten) January 28, 2021

Barstool's David Portnoy tweeted, "Everybody On Wall Street Who Had A Hand In Today’s Crime Needs To Go To Prison."

Emergency Press Conference - Everybody On Wall Street Who Had A Hand In Today’s Crime Needs To Go To Prison pic.twitter.com/aKr8aPbB3Z
— Dave Portnoy (@stoolpresidente) January 28, 2021

* * *

Update 1155 EST: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) is absolutely livid with Robinhood's decision to place trade restrictions on users from purchasing certain stocks while large financial institutions can "freely trade the stocks."

AOC called this double-standard "unacceptable."

"This is unacceptable. We now need to know more about @RobinhoodApp's decision to block retail investors from purchasing stock while hedge funds are freely able to trade the stock as they see fit. As a member of the Financial Services Cmte, I'd support a hearing if necessary," AOC tweeted.

This is unacceptable.

We now need to know more about @RobinhoodApp’s decision to block retail investors from purchasing stock while hedge funds are freely able to trade the stock as they see fit.

As a member of the Financial Services Cmte, I’d support a hearing if necessary. https://t.co/4Qyrolgzyt
— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) January 28, 2021

Meanwhile, Barstool Sports' Dave Portnoy said he's down a "milly," (we believe that's a reference to $1MM) following the trade restrictions placed by Robinhood and other discount brokerages. He called Robinhood trading app "crooks" and started calling out executives on Twitter.

Portnoy still thinks "$amc and $nok come back the second the free markets open again."

Portnoy had this message to the founder of Robinhood:

Hey @vladtenev I hope you go to jail
— Dave Portnoy (@stoolpresidente) January 28, 2021

Even rapper Ja Rule chimed into the discussion about the corruption on Wall Street. He said, "They hedge fund guy shorted these stocks now we can’t buy them ppl start selling out of fear... we lose money they make money on the short... THIS IS A FUCKING CRIME!!!"

They hedge fund guy shorted these stocks now we can’t buy them ppl start selling out of fear... we lose money they make money on the short... THIS IS A FUCKING CRIME!!!
— Ja Rule (@jarule) January 28, 2021

And that's coming from the guy who helped organize Fyre Fest.

* * *
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Re: The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby DrEvil » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:15 pm

Best comment I've seen on it so far:

Oh no, the wrong people are manipulating the stock market!
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Re: The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby Elvis » Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:09 pm

I'm just trying to make a living


I think he means trying to make a killing.
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That was fun!

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:39 pm

.

It's great to see a worthless piratical predator or two get their comeuppance trying to destroy a brick-and-mortar business.

The exposure of how rigged the game is in every way is an important moment. But now what?

Now that GME is up in the stratosphere, and all kinds of unsavory big players are trying to figure the angles on both sides, the popular uprising part of the story is pretty much over. It's fun to watch popular small-investor actions like this succeed, but they are a limited tool. Don't expect to overthrow finance capitalism this way, or to make it more just and lawful and legitimate in a sustainable way.

(For an opposing view, check out this page, which I do find inspirational.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/

Any real liberals still around would want to regulate short selling and all other forms of market rigging. Maybe they will.

Me, I'm still where I was three days ago. The whole system is wrong. Big private banks and big hedge funds and billionaires shouldn't have this power, shouldn't exist. Wall Street should be expropriated, broken up, have most of the assets passed to new public banks. I don't think most of the small investors who played at this game want that. Some of them are going to be burned. Who the hell knows where GME and AMC and AA and whatever other action is happening are going to land when this has run its course.

There should be multiple state banks for development and commerce, handling state and municipal bonds, and regional planning authorities under democratic control issuing most of the capital and coordinating a rational, ecological plan for the country. Call it a pony, I don't care.

.
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Re: The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:13 am

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Re: The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:17 am

It's great to see a worthless piratical predator or two get their comeuppance trying to destroy a brick-and-mortar business.

The exposure of how rigged the game is in every way is an important moment. But now what?

Now that GME is up in the stratosphere, and all kinds of unsavory big players are trying to figure the angles on both sides, the popular uprising part of the story is pretty much over. It's fun to watch popular small-investor actions like this succeed, but they are a limited tool. Don't expect to overthrow finance capitalism this way, or to make it more just and lawful and legitimate in a sustainable way.


You're not wrong, Jack, but we (as in humans) NEED symbols for things good and bad. It is ingrained in us, from time immemorial. This is why Superman has an S on his shirt, Batman has the bat signal, and The Riddler has the ? on his chest. The RobbintheHood app has given us today one of the greatest gifts we could have in this moment, if we use it correctly, and that is a symbol of all that is wrong in the financial markets. The immense public response to something that would on most days be a blip in the news has created a leverage point, and I pray to Thor that it is used well. I want a pony, too.

Fact of life, the quiet kid who works diligently every day to earn a pony, or make pony acquisition even possible by convincing his parents, can't do in years what a loud, angry kid who wants a pony can do in one afternoon. The metaphor falls short, but you get it, I'm sure. It's time to carpe the diem.

Me, I'm still where I was three days ago. The whole system is wrong. Big private banks and big hedge funds and billionaires shouldn't have this power, shouldn't exist. Wall Street should be expropriated, broken up, have most of the assets passed to new public banks. I don't think most of the small investors who played at this game want that. Some of them are going to be burned. Who the hell knows where GME and AMC and AA and whatever other action is happening are going to land when this has run its course.

There should be multiple state banks for development and commerce, handling state and municipal bonds, and regional planning authorities under democratic control issuing most of the capital and coordinating a rational, ecological plan for the country. Call it a pony, I don't care.

.
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Re: The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:10 am

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Re: The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby conniption » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:30 am

January 28, 2021
The System Is Rigged - Episode 4537: Game Stop Corp

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/01/t ... -corp.html

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Re: The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby thrulookingglass » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:36 am

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Good and Bad

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:45 am

metalgongfu, there's no doubt about the simplest-symbolic version, or that it's important.

Melvin-Citadel and related players used short-selling in a way that would destroy GameStop financially (and throw all of its employees out of work) as collateral damage in a bet made purely for their own hyper-profit, without holding any interest in GME and with no defensible aim of the transaction. It was an investment in causing economic misfortune for strangers, nothing more. This should be illegal, but it is not.

Posters on Wall Street Bets saw that Melvin and Co.'s position was vulnerable to a short squeeze because they had, insanely, legally, in keeping with routine Wall Street practice, shorted more GME shares than existed. Winning their bets would mean GME=0. A rise in GME meant they'd get screwed, deservedly. So WSB masses did what they did, buying GME on the cheap and watching it rise, taking their own profit from it, and screwing Melvin and Co., deservedly, in the process exposing a systemically corrupt order. Bravo for that. Now the Musks and Winkelvosses and who knows who else have entered the game to do their own thing. Eh to that. No telling what the outcome will be, from any perspective. Fluid situation, many ways things can go badly for lots of good people.

Banning what Melvin & Co. did and a) regulating or abolishing shorts and similar maneuvers (at the least: no naked shorts, ever) is the only logical good consequence if b) the system is not to be scrapped altogether and replaced with something rational and humane (as it should be). No bets on shit you aren't holding, ever. Genuine insurance options only.

The revolution, b, won't come of this, and cannot be pursued by these means (that's the illusion, by the way) so the regulation, a, would be the sole good and righteous immediate outcome.

Do I expect it? Maybe it happens. Would the pony-sim be better than nothing? I figure, but it ain't no pony. FWIW.

Should all those involved with Melvin & Co. or doing anything similar, and the third parties now waging transparent defamatory propaganda backlash against WSB and effectively looking for a Melvin & Co. bailout be toppled from any institutional or material power and shunned as dangerous, destructive, immoral, sociopathic miscreants? Absolutely. And not going to happen.

.
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The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:02 pm

The revolution, b, won't come of this, and cannot be pursued by these means (that's the illusion, by the way) so the regulation, a, would be the sole good and righteous immediate outcome


Regulation is the revolution.
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Re: The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby thrulookingglass » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:02 pm

Who will regulate the regulators?
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Re: The Very Few vs The Many (Rigged Markets) - Occupy 2021

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:23 pm

The redditors
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Re: That was fun!

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:22 pm

JackRiddler » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:39 pm wrote:.

It's great to see a worthless piratical predator or two get their comeuppance trying to destroy a brick-and-mortar business.

The exposure of how rigged the game is in every way is an important moment. But now what?

Now that GME is up in the stratosphere, and all kinds of unsavory big players are trying to figure the angles on both sides, the popular uprising part of the story is pretty much over. It's fun to watch popular small-investor actions like this succeed, but they are a limited tool. Don't expect to overthrow finance capitalism this way, or to make it more just and lawful and legitimate in a sustainable way.

(For an opposing view, check out this page, which I do find inspirational.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/

Any real liberals still around would want to regulate short selling and all other forms of market rigging. Maybe they will.

Me, I'm still where I was three days ago. The whole system is wrong. Big private banks and big hedge funds and billionaires shouldn't have this power, shouldn't exist. Wall Street should be expropriated, broken up, have most of the assets passed to new public banks. I don't think most of the small investors who played at this game want that. Some of them are going to be burned. Who the hell knows where GME and AMC and AA and whatever other action is happening are going to land when this has run its course.

There should be multiple state banks for development and commerce, handling state and municipal bonds, and regional planning authorities under democratic control issuing most of the capital and coordinating a rational, ecological plan for the country. Call it a pony, I don't care.

.


A transaction tax would halt much of the automated trading and raise an substantial amount of revenue. Also would create more stable financial markets.
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