The Limits of Science

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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby dada » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:56 pm

May all your nurses be super-fine. See you on the flip side!
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby norton ash » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:43 pm

May it all go safely for you, Iam. Get well.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby dada » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:55 pm

So we've approached the limits of science theoretically, maybe we could say we've explored the 'soft limits.' I'm wondering about the hard limits. Planck length, speed of light in a vacuum. The limits that science arrives at are useful constructs.

I guess I'm looking for a limit that is both soft and hard. Speed of thought, say.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:52 pm

Love to you iam!
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:30 pm

Iamwhomiam » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:51 am wrote:
I'm scheduled for major surgery on Monday, so, If I kick off and can't make it back - well, it's been a great ride and I've met many wonderful people here, some not so wonderful, but nevertheless memorable, and I've learned what a 'bump' is. (It's not a chest bump, which I first thought odd if it was!) and much much more. It's been fun and sometimes not so much, so thank you all. If all goes well, I'll return in a few weeks if I'm able and the anesthesiologist doesn't kill off the few still working neurons playing craps in my brain

I promise not to accuse all the folks I'll see wearing masks of being deep state conspirators, and I won't tell them they are silly to think masks are at all protective, because the fungus they hoard has already eaten half their brain and it's not nice to make fun of the disabled.

Hope to see you again - soon.



Safe passage back, Iam. You needn't worry about those mask-wielders; it's part of the ritual, within the confines of the OR. An understandable process in those particular environs (fungus wouldn't be applicable as the masks used during procedures are always promptly discarded after their -- brief -- use). :thumbsup :sarcasm
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Marionumber1 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:49 am

Best of luck to you, Iam. It's been a pleasure getting to meet you through this forum and I hope everything goes well. :basicsmile
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Blue » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:35 pm

Hey Iam...

Sending healing thoughts and rays your way. May your operation and recovery go smoothly.

On this Pi Day I'll hasten your recovery by posting some pies.

Irish Potato Pie
Image

Paleo Chocolate Pie
Image

Southern Pecan Pie
Image

Oh, and the limits of science on Pi Day being only the limit to how much pie one can eat.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby dada » Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:41 pm

The pi is the limit!
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Blue » Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:40 pm

You lost me at FALSE GOD.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby conniption » Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:03 am

pathwaystofamilywellness

Sep 01, 2008
The Paradigm Shift in Medicine and Science

Author // Philip Incao, MD

Labels: Feature Article, Holistic Healthcare, New Edge Science, The Conscious Path, Author Philip Incao, MD, Issue #19

The word paradigm in present usage means the model constructed by our unconscious and conscious mind which we use to understand and explain the world. Our paradigm incorporates all of our basic assumptions about the nature of reality. It is our worldview; it’s the lens through which we look at the world and it colors everything we see.

This paradigm-lens is itself created and formed partly from our education and partly from the primal feelings living at the deepest levels of our heart and mind. Primal feelings are shared by all human beings, each of us having our own particular mix depending on our individual constitution and experience and on the culture in which we live. Most important in this inner mix of primal, basic feelings toward life and the world is whether love or fear rules.

Image
[Pathways Magazine] Appearing in Issue #19. Order A Copy Today

In ancient times the ruling paradigm was based on love for the world. Today our ruling scientific paradigm is based on fear of the world. At a deep unconscious level—but just below the surface in medicine— we live today in a fear-based paradigm. Because of this underlying fear, science and medicine assume that we must control and master Nature in order to survive. This new paradigm that is now struggling to be born challenges us to develop the courage and selflessness to master and change ourselves in order to survive.

The ruling paradigm of a culture determines the kind of knowledge on which governments are based, the kind of knowledge on which the education of children and the pursuit of science are based; in short the kind of knowledge on which enlightened civilization is based.

If we could ask a welleducated citizen of ancient times what kind of knowledge should form the basis of an enlightened civilization, the answer most certainly would be, “Well, of course, knowledge of the gods and of their will.”

The ruling paradigm shared by the peoples of the ancient world was god-centered and spirit-centered. But all that changed because human consciousness is in constant evolution and the human heart and mind never stand still. Paradigms are like living things which grow, reach maturity, and then become old, overripe, and prone to illness and decay. By the 1500s, the ancient spirit-centered ruling paradigm in Europe had become entrenched in the powerful authority of the church and had grown old and corrupt, no longer able to keep up with changing, evolving human consciousness.

Then came a mighty paradigm shift, as western science was brought to birth by Copernicus, Galileo, and Newton. The human mind and senses gradually lost their capacity to experience spirit as a concrete reality. After Galileo, the physical matter of the universe assumed ever-growing importance for the mind, and for science. To understand the deep inner reality of matter became the quest of science, eventually leading to the unsettling conclusion by modern physics that the basis of all matter was after all nonmaterial: energy. Things were coming full circle, as our western paradigm, having shifted from spirit-based to matter-based, then shifted to energybased in the 20th century.

The birth of western science was also the birth of a freer and more individualized human thinking. Galileo was a pioneer fighting for the freedom to think about reality in a way that respected no outer authority but respected only the truth as he saw it. He stood for the inviolable right of the scientist to follow ones own conscience, free from outside pressure. This fresh, young, scientific paradigm represented by Galileo matured over the next few centuries. It became well-established and institutionalized, and now has become entrenched and very powerful. Now the free spirits in science are again having a hard time. Their freedom to call it as they see it is again being curtailed; their academic freedom is threatened. And of course, today it is not the church which threatens freedom of thought in science, it is the system that institutionalized science has become which stifles individual freedom and creativity. Most Americans today believe that a scientist is free to pursue the truth as she or he sees it, free from any influence whatsoever. This is sadly not the case.

History is repeating itself. The corruption, immorality and tyranny of the church that fueled the Reformation in the 16th century are now happening in institutionalized and commercialized science and medicine. These are symptoms of a terminal illness in a paradigm that has already made its greatest contributions to the evolution of humanity, and is now too old and inflexible to adapt to the changing consciousness of the 21st century.

It is human nature to resist change and to fear loss of control and a loss of security. But a paradigm that must limit human freedom of thought in order to preserve its influence is not healthy, and in fact is dying, and needs to be honored and laid to rest. If change is to occur from the top down, then the day must come when it is the rule, rather than the exception, that leading scientists love truth, and their freedom to pursue the truth, more than they fear the loss of their position and their material security.

When a paradigm dies, all of its gifts which have stood the test of time are honored, taken up, and given fresh new life by the infant paradigm which succeeds it, just as in successive generations of human beings. Paradigm shifts are deaths and births unfolding a greater evolution.

We are at a crossroads, and the forces of change are moving in two opposing and irreconcilable directions. We have a choice between actively working for the birth of a more human-centered paradigm, or standing by while the present dying paradigm in biology and medicine further expands its world domination. Today’s institutionalized and commercialized biology and medicine will apply its knowledge of the underlying mechanisms of physical reality to create a megatechnology with ever-increasing power over the forces of nature, both in the environment and in the human being. Science will develop the 200 or so vaccines now in the pipeline, and will also increasingly develop and apply genetic engineering, gene therapy, cloning and a host of other things.

It’s often said that you can’t stop progress, you can’t put the Genie back in the bottle. That’s true. It would be going backwards in human evolution to try to put the Genie back in the bottle. But the real point is, we need to have the awakened moral discernment to reexamine our concept of progress and to understand just what kind of Genie we are dealing with, and we need to learn to master that Genie and not be its slave. We’ll never learn that until we develop the courage to stop fearing the world and to change our paradigm.

Change is inevitable, but the kind of change that comes about can also happen from the bottom up. We ordinary people can make change happen if we have the values and vision, and the courage to be activists for that vision and those values. A new more human-centered paradigm in biology and medicine will be based on an ecological consciousness, affirming that we humans are intimately interconnected with and interdependent with all of creation. In the new paradigm, the freedom of thought of the individual scientist, the individual physician, and the individual client/patient will be held sacred and will be honored.

The basic assumption and attitude of the new paradigm will no longer be that we must control and dominate nature in order to survive, but instead that we must, with great humility and respect, seek to understand the life forces embodied in nature and in ourselves, so that we might support and sustain them. The new paradigm will see the big picture—that the life and health of humanity will depend on our understanding of, and our caring for, life in all its manifestations.

I am reminded of some lines by the poet-playwright Christopher Fry, from his play A Sleep of Prisoners. “Thank God our time is now when wrong comes up to face us everywhere, never to leave us until we take the longest stride of soul we ever took.” Even the title of the play alone describes our modern consciousness very well.

If humanity is to evolve in the direction of greater health and freedom, and if we are to avoid destroying ourselves and the world, then our new paradigm must be one that puts the human spirit at the center of medicine and of science.

Medical Science

Present Paradigm
a) Matter-based
b) Illness is the enemy of health
c) Consciousness plays little or no role in health or illness
d) Only the physical brain can produce consciousness
e) Illness and healing follow physical laws only
f) Vaccines strengthen the immune system to ward off disease


New Paradigm
a) Spirit- and life-based
b) Illness is often a step toward regaining health
c) Consciousness plays a predominant role in health and illness
d) The brain does not produce consciousness, but only mirrors it
e) Other laws cooperate with physical laws to influence illness and healing
f) Vaccines restrict the immune system from producing acute inflammation, resulting instead in more chronic inflammation


https://pathwaystofamilywellness.org/Ho ... ience.html
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby dada » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:15 am

The article above presents a popular narrative, tells a story about a progression of paradigm shifts. Good story, but it doesn't capture an accurate picture. Everybody didn't "see through a spiritual paradigm" in some era in the distant past. Some did, and many didn't, same as today. What the article is calling a "new paradigm" has been around for as long as the "old one."

Everything is energy just means all mass can be translated into energy. This much mass can be transformed into that much energy. Just because everything is understood as energy doesn't make it behave any differently.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby dada » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:56 am

"The human mind and senses gradually lost their capacity to experience spirit as a concrete reality. After Galileo, the physical matter of the universe assumed ever-growing importance for the mind, and for science."

"Lost" in the sense of it became degraded and atrophied, or lost in the sense of "can't seem to find my keys."

I think the second sentence is complete bullshit, though. Just because spirit assumes less and less importance, doesn't mean physical matter therefore assumes more and more. Physical matter has always been just as important for the mind and for science as it is now.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby dada » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:56 pm

Getting this book, Eugene Wigner's Philosophical Reflections and Syntheses (Part B volume 6 of his Collected Works)

"Among the founding fathers of modern quantum physics few have contributed to our basic understanding of its concepts as much as E.P. Wigner. His articles on the epistemology of quantum mechanics and the measurement problem, and the basic role of symmetries were of fundamental importance for all subsequent work. He was also the first to discuss the concept of consciousness from the point of view of modern physics. G.G. Emch edited most of those papers and wrote a very helpful introduction into Wigner's contributions to Natural Philosophy. The book should be a gem for all those interested in the history and philosophy of science. From a review by Silvan S. Schweber in Physics Today, October 1996: "All of the essays in Volume VI are at the level of the curious nonexpert who possesses a minimal command of the quantum mechanical formalism. They are rigorous, lucid and challenging."

Part of it is Wigner's assessment of the methods, aims, and limitations of science.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:16 am

Goin off topic for a moment to share my thanks to my well-wishers. Thank you all.

Monday, today, sorta, even though it's now 1am Tuesday, it's been two weeks since my surgery was scheduled on the 15th. I'll tell you what's been going on with me lately. Some time around February of 2019 I noticed some unusual swelling in my groin. My inguinal groin, which is the area where your leg joins with your torso. Couldn't get supplemental insurance until December, which I did, but then took two more months to find a primary physician, from whom all things medical must flow, it seems. I certainly didn't want to wait in a waiting room with sickies and asked for the preliminary paperwork to be sent to me by mail, which was refused to me. Next time, a month later, in March, their practice was not accepting new patients at that time. And so, I waited and finally got to see a doctor; a new doctor, brand new.

I told him my concerns and he told me I had a hernia. I knew I didn't have a hernia. I have been an EMT and have had nursing education. The doctor told me we could just leave it be. He called back a few days later to tell me about my blood work, the results were back from the lab. I mentioned to him I didn't want this thing hanging off me and let's get it tucked back in, if it is as you say, "fatty abdominal tissue." It is a bit uncomfortable. "I have high confidence it is a hernia, but if you're uncomfortable, I'll refer you to a surgeon." Which he did.

Off to see the surgeon! She, a young and new to practice surgeon, assured me It was a hernia and I told her I was pretty sure it wasn't. She ordered an ultrasound and discovered a mass in my groin! Surgeon wanted to cut it out, as much of it as she could get, she told me during a follow-up call to discuss the results of my ultrasound. I said a verbal conversation over the telephone was not enough for me to make such a decision, that I wanted to be able to meet with her and point at things shown in the ultrasound and ask questions. I also insisted on having a cat scan to see what exactly was involved before making my decision. We really had no idea if major blood vessels, muscles or intestinal tissues were involved. So I had a cat scan. I didn't have a mass, I had two grotesquely enlarged lymph nodes that appeared to be isolated, with no intrusion into any other tissues. Oh, and I didn't have a hernia! Still haven't seen the cat scan, but decided to approve surgery proceeding on the Ides of March. (The woman calling from the hospital two days before surgery to give me pre-admission instructions blew out my left eardrum and now I've gone deaf in that ear!!)

Earlier, a few weeks before surgery, my primary physician cleared me for surgery, meaning I was healthy enough to survive it. I had an electroencephalogram and my ticker looked good.

Maybe a few of you read about my adventure running out of gas in a mini blizzard across from an open field? That was a few days after my doctor gave me a clean bill of health. And now it's Monday and I'm prepped for surgery and hooked up to a heart monitor. But I didn't have surgery.

As it turned out, the anesthesiologist noted some marked difference between the eeg reading that cleared me for surgery a few weeks before, and the constant readout he was getting from me then. Of course, this calls for a cardiologist! who tells me I recently had two heart attacks! Doctor tells me I'm and old fucker who's smoked and my arteries are probably clogged, so he's going to catheterize me and install stents, if necessary, at the same time. Either before or after, I can't recall which, I had an echo-cardiogram done that showed my left ventricle was "ballooned and its ejection is 25% of normal" (that got better, to 45%.)

The doctors believe that with medicines they will soon repair my heart. My surgeon wants to pursue obtaining a core biopsy (like a needle biopsy) of the lymph nodes and I've turned into an old man who looks like he shouldn't be riding on that handicapped grocery cart, one that takes 5 pills a day, two, twice a day and one more at bedtime. Seems that I had a heart attack the night of the momentary blizzard after running out of gas!

Sure hope I made that legible
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Re: iam's story

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:52 am

My god, I'm so sorry.

It's more than legible. We read you. I hope it helps to write the story for us. You've gone through the worst. You're telling us about the limits of science, of applied medicine in an assembly line system, of the unexamined workaday arrogance of authorities, of a system with wrong incentives. I can only hope for you to stay strong and come to better turns. What can we say, what can we do for you?
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
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