Elon Musk - Charlatan/Stooge?

[DrEvil]

Voter suppression, anti-abortion bills, creationism, school vouchers, deregulation, the Capitol riot, the Supreme Court, the Southern Strategy, the entire fucking GOP cult.

Voter suppression? Like the BS that is currently being peddled in the MSM?

Voter ID laws, gerrymandering, scrubbing of voter rolls, making it illegal to give food and water to people waiting in line to vote while closing down a bunch of voting locations in predominantly democratic areas, ensuring long lines, making mail-in votes harder to do.
The Southern Strategy at work. You know, racism.

Abortion? That's an opinion. Anybody has the right to oppose abortion, or favor it. It doesn't make you a better human being to favor abortion.

No, but how many leftists do you see pushing anti-abortion talking points? What party do the people currently pushing stricter abortion laws belong to, and why are they doing it?

Creationism, that's a good one. I still have to laugh when zealots push this stuff. It's akin to the flat Earthers.

There's a lot more creationists than flat-Earthers, and they're trying to teach their bullshit in schools.

Deregulation? That is extremely vague.

Basic conservative "let business do what the fuck they want" vs. leftist "maybe we should regulate x" (aka SOCIALISM!).

Capitol riot? You mean the "insurrection?" The largely peaceful protest? Give me a break. The incident known to some as theater...where the guards let people wander in? Uh hmmmm...yeah.

Are you saying they were actually leftists?

Supreme Court? What about it? More vague nothingness.

Conservative majority, latest one a religious zealot.

It is easy to get wrapped into this two-party thing where one of them is supposedly a better turd sandwich than the other. It's pointless to continue this conversation if all you see it as is Democrat vs. Republican. Isn't RI supposed to be able to rise about the daily matrix stuff and see things for as they are and not get continually yanked into the mainstream media propaganda?

One of the parties is objectively worse than the other. Where the dems are merely shitty, the GOP are cartoon villains.

[Harvey]

...but what exactly is it that warrants the extra scrutiny of him in particular, and not the myriad other billionaires doing far shittier things?

Let me pose your question in a slightly different form: what is it that warrants extra scrutiny of The Guardian in particular, and not the myriad other billionaire media doing far shittier things?

Answer: precisely because it is a trusted source of information for those who are otherwise naturally opposed to colonialism and imperialism. For all those, enough doubt was generated, enough fog that what could have been an effective block to everything from Iraq and Syria to the treatment of Julian Assange became instead, grudging assent. My sense is that Musk is a Trojan horse, much as the Guardian is a Trojan horse, used to seed certain ideas as 'common sense' in all those who are otherwise naturally opposed, such as the militarisation of space. As a figurehead, he is the wet dream of every child who read and loved science fiction before becoming an adult and as such, that is why he should be handled with additional due diligence, his ability to bypass adult reasoning.

If war is waged in orbit, it would be entirely because of the current drive to militarily control access to space. The debris field of any space borne engagement would likely deny access to orbit for the duration of any window of opportunity we may have to develop as a spacefaring species. (In truth, I do not expect we will develop as such. I expect we are already extinct but don't know it yet.) If we cannot prevent the calamitous littering of the oceans and pollution of our water and air, the US military being a supreme example of all three, is it really so naive to expect we could avoid littering the 'road' to space? Is there anyone who will seriously deny the likelihood of this, once low earth orbit becomes the new American battlefield?

[Belligerent Savant]

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Harvey has captured the spirit of it. And as he relays, it's not relegated to Musk alone. It's systemic.

[DrEvil]

...but what exactly is it that warrants the extra scrutiny of him in particular, and not the myriad other billionaires doing far shittier things?

Let me pose your question in a slightly different form: what is it that warrants extra scrutiny of The Guardian in particular, and not the myriad other billionaire media doing far shittier things?

Answer: precisely because it is a trusted source of information for those who are otherwise naturally opposed to colonialism and imperialism. For all those, enough doubt was generated, enough fog that what could have been an effective block to everything from Iraq and Syria to the treatment of Julian Assange became instead, grudging assent. My sense is that Musk is a Trojan horse, much as the Guardian is a Trojan horse, used to seed certain ideas as 'common sense' in all those who are otherwise naturally opposed, such as the militarisation of space. As a figurehead, he is the wet dream of every child who read and loved science fiction before becoming an adult and as such, that is why he should be handled with additional due diligence, his ability to bypass adult reasoning.

If war is waged in orbit, it would be entirely because of the current drive to militarily control access to space. The debris field of any space borne engagement would likely deny access to orbit for the duration of any window of opportunity we may have to develop as a spacefaring species. (In truth, I do not expect we will develop as such. I expect we are already extinct but don't know it yet.) If we cannot prevent the calamitous littering of the oceans and pollution of our water and air, the US military being a supreme example of all three, is it really so naive to expect we could avoid littering the 'road' to space? Is there anyone who will seriously deny the likelihood of this, once low earth orbit becomes the new American battlefield?

Finally a good answer. Thank you!

One minor quibble: if your assessment is right, I would say Bezos is a better fit. Could be both of course, but Bezos is neck deep in natsec, and is developing a reusable rocket in a company full of old space/MIC guys. He's also a fucking pox on small businesses, loves union busting, employs hundreds of thousands of people in borderline slave labor, and has enough tax lawyers on retainer to staff three O'Neill cylinders. Also, like Bill Gates he's retiring from running his empire to focus on fucking people over in other ways.

[Harvey]

...but what exactly is it that warrants the extra scrutiny of him in particular, and not the myriad other billionaires doing far shittier things?

Let me pose your question in a slightly different form: what is it that warrants extra scrutiny of The Guardian in particular, and not the myriad other billionaire media doing far shittier things?

Answer: precisely because it is a trusted source of information for those who are otherwise naturally opposed to colonialism and imperialism. For all those, enough doubt was generated, enough fog that what could have been an effective block to everything from Iraq and Syria to the treatment of Julian Assange became instead, grudging assent. My sense is that Musk is a Trojan horse, much as the Guardian is a Trojan horse, used to seed certain ideas as 'common sense' in all those who are otherwise naturally opposed, such as the militarisation of space. As a figurehead, he is the wet dream of every child who read and loved science fiction before becoming an adult and as such, that is why he should be handled with additional due diligence, his ability to bypass adult reasoning.

If war is waged in orbit, it would be entirely because of the current drive to militarily control access to space. The debris field of any space borne engagement would likely deny access to orbit for the duration of any window of opportunity we may have to develop as a spacefaring species. (In truth, I do not expect we will develop as such. I expect we are already extinct but don't know it yet.) If we cannot prevent the calamitous littering of the oceans and pollution of our water and air, the US military being a supreme example of all three, is it really so naive to expect we could avoid littering the 'road' to space? Is there anyone who will seriously deny the likelihood of this, once low earth orbit becomes the new American battlefield?

Finally a good answer. Thank you!

One minor quibble: if your assessment is right, I would say Bezos is a better fit. Could be both of course, but Bezos is neck deep in natsec, and is developing a reusable rocket in a company full of old space/MIC guys. He's also a fucking pox on small businesses, loves union busting, employs hundreds of thousands of people in borderline slave labor, and has enough tax lawyers on retainer to staff three O'Neill cylinders. Also, like Bill Gates he's retiring from running his empire to focus on fucking people over in other ways.

Good points all, none of which refute mine. I deleted the line "And yet Bezos is a more Heinlein character" or something like it (amongst others) while drafting...

[DrEvil]

Heh. Heinlein character is perfect. Sipping champagne with his billionaire buddies on his private space habitat while the world burns, launching the occasional orbital strike to keep the starving masses away from his warehouses.

[Belligerent Savant]

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Yes, Bezos, Gates, and surely a few others within the billionaire class may well qualify to be placed higher up the totem pole of aggregate damage to the majority, but the focus of this OP is Musk, for reasons -- as already outlined -- that make him distinct relative to his peers.

You're welcome to start a thread on Bezos, if we don't have one already.

[Karmamatterz]

One of the parties is objectively worse than the other. Where the dems are merely shitty, the GOP are cartoon villains.

Two turd sandwiches, pick one.

You say one is worse than the other. You do realize, I hope that we all come from different backgrounds, life experiences, education, parts of the world etc...right?
So just because you like one turd sandwich better than the other doesn't mean I, or anyone, has to like either of those two. Enjoy your meal as you swallow it whole.

In the meantime, maybe Rachel Maddow and the rest of the people at MSNBC, who preach the virtues of one turd sandwich over another, would bring you more enjoyment and information. For dessert turn to NPR, known to some as National Propaganda Radio.

Back to Musk...

Look at who his customers are to get a sense of who his bosses are. We are not his customers. You don't get government deals and all that scratch without having to give up something in return.

[Marionumber1]

Two turd sandwiches, pick one.

You say one is worse than the other. You do realize, I hope that we all come from different backgrounds, life experiences, education, parts of the world etc...right?
So just because you like one turd sandwich better than the other doesn't mean I, or anyone, has to like either of those two. Enjoy your meal as you swallow it whole.

And just because somebody likes one better than the other doesn't mean they actually like either of them. I don't see how any of DrEvil's posts, which outright called the Democrats "shitty", can be viewed as an endorsement of them.

On the issue of Musk, I am inclined to agree with the views of everyone else in this thread. It's just unfortunate that those cogent takes are increasingly paired with a knee-jerk belief that pointing out the awfulness of the GOP establishment is nothing more than "mainstream media" propaganda. This underlying implicit mentality of "MSM said it, so the opposite must be true" is just as toxic as believing everything the MSM reports.

[Belligerent Savant]

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[Edited to offer a slightly toned-down response -- was in an irritable mood earlier]

Yes, except it was DrEvil that introduced "GOP mainstream" talking points; it wasn't germane to the topic.

Yes, of course, BOTH establishment parties are full of shit. Much of our current crimes against humanity are more closely tied to the Dem party, however, though both are complicit. So for the moment the Dems/DNC are claiming top spot for 'shitty establishment party' of the year, with the GOP surely to overtake them in due time.

Both are constructs to distract how we're being fucked by entities that don't adhere to any mainstream ethos.

[DrEvil]

One of the parties is objectively worse than the other. Where the dems are merely shitty, the GOP are cartoon villains.

Two turd sandwiches, pick one.

You say one is worse than the other. You do realize, I hope that we all come from different backgrounds, life experiences, education, parts of the world etc...right?
So just because you like one turd sandwich better than the other doesn't mean I, or anyone, has to like either of those two. Enjoy your meal as you swallow it whole.

In the meantime, maybe Rachel Maddow and the rest of the people at MSNBC, who preach the virtues of one turd sandwich over another, would bring you more enjoyment and information. For dessert turn to NPR, known to some as National Propaganda Radio.

Back to Musk...

Look at who his customers are to get a sense of who his bosses are. We are not his customers. You don't get government deals and all that scratch without having to give up something in return.

Sure you do. All you have to do is offer a superior product at a lower price. The government would be stupid not to use SpaceX, and Musk would be stupid not to go for the government contracts, but most of their launches are still for commercial actors. For the government they've had two classified launches for the NRO, one launch of the X-37b, a couple of GPS satellites and some NOAA Earth observation satellites, plus cargo and crew to the ISS for NASA.

If they play nice with the government the government plays nice when they start doing their more crazy stuff, all of which requires government approval. It's just good business sense. There's no need to invoke ulterior motives to explain what they're doing (doesn't mean there aren't of course).

[JackRiddler]

Voter suppression, anti-abortion bills, creationism, school vouchers, deregulation, the Capitol riot, the Supreme Court, the Southern Strategy, the entire fucking GOP cult.

Voter suppression? Like the BS that is currently being peddled in the MSM?

Have you also retroactively declared as bullshit the broad RI consensus from 2005 (concerning events going back to 2000) until 2020 about varieties of election fraud and voter suppression -- almost exclusively understood as being by and for Republicans in general elections, and by Democrats only against the left in primaries? (Since late 2020 there has been a shift or rather a split wherein suddenly some consider what Trump et al. claim no matter how ridiculous as worthy of serious examination, but not the actual continuing voter suppression inscribed in law as well as standard and customary Republican practice, now being rolled out in epic fashion through new legislation.)

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[Belligerent Savant]

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Seems there was an offlist chat with Musk to revise his position.

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/1 ... ylor-tesla

Elon Musk said he's speaking with bitcoin miners about renewable energy

A tweet from Tesla CEO Elon Musk indicates he's taking steps to encourage renewable energy usage by bitcoin miners.

In a tweet today, Musk said he spoke with bitcoin miners based in North America. During the conversation, those miners committed to publishing a plan for renewable usage, as well as disclosing their current modes of obtaining renewable power. They also committed to calling globally on other miners to do the same, according to Musk.

"Potentially promising," his tweet concluded.

MicroStrategy CEO Michael Saylor said he convened the meeting. Saylor tweeted that the North American miners Musk spoke with have agreed to form the "Bitcoin Mining Council," which Saylor said would promote energy usage transparency to "accelerate sustainability initiatives worldwide."

Saylor said executives from Argo, Block Cap, Core Scientific, Galaxy Digital, Hive, Hut8, Marathon and Riot were in attendance. According to Saylor, they "decided to establish an organization to standardize energy reporting, pursue industry ESG goals, & educate+grow the marketplace."

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin- ... -elon-musk

Bitcoin Mining Council emerges following meeting with Michael Saylor and Elon Musk

The CEO of MicroStrategy brokered a successful meeting between Elon Musk and North American Bitcoin miners.

Cryptos Soar After Musk, Saylor Speak To Bitcoin Miners, Will Standardize Energy Reporting

...

Elon Musk.. realized, one week late, that by sending bitcoin plunging (perhaps to appease China, or some unknown ESG overlord) he also hammered TSLA stock not to mention his own net worth, and so moments before the close, the billionaire Tesla CEO - a little over a week after announcing he will no longer accept bitcoin because BTC miners use electricity - tweeted that he "spoke with North American Bitcoin miners. They committed to publish current & planned renewable usage & to ask miners WW to do so. Potentially promising."

...It wasn't immediately clear if any Chinese bitcoin miners are part of this organization - they should be, after all: the dirtiest bitcoin mining takes place in China's infamous Xinjiang region - but it's a start, and if indeed we are about to see mining standardization, one which pushes more output to the US and other "clean" regions, this could be just the catalyst that eliminates the biggest ESG complaint against cryptos.

The damage control tweets hit shortly after a $1 billion trade was observed via Tether, with some wondering if Musk may have been behind it as he sought to stabilize a furious selloff that would have dire consequences for Tesla's income statement and balance sheet.
...

In any case, the market which plunged in the past week after Elon triggered a selling avalanche which saw China pile on and lead to a 50% crash in bitcoin from its highs, was delighted by this development and sent bitcoin soaring almost $2K in minutes, surging just shy of $40,000 after hitting $30,000 a little over 24 hours ago.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/crypt ... -reporting

[DrEvil]

It's a start, but something like 75% of all mining happens in China, much of it powered by coal. What probably will help is China outright banning mining, which it looks like they will.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202 ... on-mining/

I'm also curious what the guys who bought a decommissioned fossil fuel plant in New York to power their mining operation will think.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202 ... e-bitcoin/

[Belligerent Savant]

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Obligatory addition:

Tesla’s China Orders Halved in May, Internal Data Show, As Crisis Deepens

By Juro Osawa
| June 3, 2021 10:42 AM PDT

Tesla vehicle orders in China fell by nearly half in May compared to April, according to internal data, as the electric car pioneer grappled with public outcry and government criticism over its handling of consumer complaints. Taken together, the developments put in doubt Tesla’s vaunted position and success in the world’s biggest electric vehicle market.

The company’s monthly net orders in China dropped to about 9,800 in May from more than 18,000 in April, according to a person with knowledge of the data. The sharp drop reflected a drastic shift in Chinese consumers’ appetite for Tesla, whose founder Elon Musk has celebrity status there. Orders spiked in January after the release of the Model Y SUV, and then slowly eased off before cratering last month. In March, Tesla had 21,000 net orders.

https://www.theinformation.com/articles ... is-deepens

Some Chinese government agencies review Tesla ownership among staff

Tesla has come under heightened scrutiny in the world’s biggest automobile market.

Tesla Inc. is facing further fallout in China, with some local governments and official institutions reviewing vehicle ownership among their staff, citing concerns the cars pose security risks, according to people familiar with the matter.

Authorities in Zhejiang and Guangxi provinces have either asked government bodies to check and report on any employees who have bought the cars, or forbidden staff from key agencies to drive Teslas into certain official areas, the people said, asking not to be identified because the details are private.

The China Meteorological Administration, the national weather service headquartered in Beijing, has told staff not to buy the company’s EVs and if they already have, has requested they transfer ownership of the car to another person, one person said.

https://www.autonews.com/china/some-chi ... mong-staff

Traders dumped the shares on the news, pushing TSLA back below the $600 level with a vengeance. China is one of the company's most critical markets, as its Shanghai factory has helped TSLA consistently meet Wall Street's optimistic production and sales targets.